Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:50 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:09 pm +0000
Posts: 4
Location: Florida
Ever since I was a child going to Bible school I would ask why, Johova all knowing created us knowing we would be sinners.
Over the years I asked 5-6 pastors why? They all said, " If man didnt have a choice we would have been a race of robots.

It still didnt anwser WHY?

Anyway, as we are ceated in his image, it would seem that the lord would create beings and worlds knowing the results. Like we build trainsets, racecars, and boats knowing much of the same. We know the results, The trains are going to whisle and go around the tracks. But,. we enjoy watching it. Same for the cars and boats. more to come. The holy spirt I feel is revieling this to me for some resone. and he led me to this site.

The point is thats what The Lord does,, He creates ciliviesations. sry my spelling is really bad , please bare with me) Knowing fullwell whats is going to happen. well I have to get some sleep.. more to follow,, This is just start.... I could never think of this, I TRY to put my will and life in Christs hands.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:47 pm +0000
Posts: 1394
Location: San Antonio
Welcome and know you are not the first to ask this most obvious of questions.
And there are good one and answered thoroughly in the Urantia Book.

But first I would ask you to consider re-defining some terms. I too as a young man was trapped by these question and when my mind finally grow over the years I was able to question the peramittors I was asking the question in....What is sin... what is Gods will...what is free will... what is death and many more.

I will not answer these for you for you have ask questions that are very important for you to discover and I will be glad to show you the many paths I have found and the answers will be your s not mine.

Many here will also be glad to guide you.

Stay True To The Journey....and know that Journey Is Yours


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:04 pm +0000
Posts: 568
A good question.

Here is my 'fumbling around' answer I gave to myself. Is it okay to question religious authorities about things that bother me? Is it okay to question religious Holy Writings that befuddle me?

I say God/Nature Gave me a brain, a mind. It is okay for me to use my mind 100% ! all the time about any topic, period. On the other occasion, I confess my mind cannot grasp some topics. I cannot truly understand/embrace/ comprehend in a satisfactory manner the following - infinity... eternity....free will... In all honesty, I have found peace that I will learn a litttle more (not ALL) in the next life. And I will not "get it" in this life (with my limited intelligence).

p.s. Did Einstein or Kant or Plato or Madonna or Kurt Kobain
find the answers?? I think they - like you and me - will go only so
far. And they will also have to wait .......


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:16 pm +0000
Posts: 424
Location: Chicopee, MA
Quote:
If man didnt have a choice we would have been a race of robots.

Enlightened,

That is actually a pretty good answer. Free will has a price. That price is a limited degree of uncertainty.
Bill,
Faith son

_________________
Read the Urantia Papers. Read them again!
Image

http://billurantia3.bravehost.com//welc ... ALITY.html


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:42 pm +0000
Posts: 44
Location: near Buffalo, NY
You know how we watch TV and we flip from channel to channel? Well, I've often thought that God created all these worlds to entertain himself, and if he doesn't like what he sees on one world, he flips over the the next world and basically checks in on us throughout our lives to see how we are progressing. We are God's soap opera. :smile:

_________________
Timing is everything!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:41 pm +0000
Posts: 137
Location: Chowchilla, CA
I often thought about this question myself. If the Father knew all things, why did He let certain things occur? Why didn't He make us perfect? First, I think that the Father does know all things that have occured, are occuring, and will occur. But towards sin, since it is not a personal reality, the personality of the Father does not take cognizance of it's existence. Sin is a cosmic unreality, and the infinitely real personality of God cannot, or at least does not, "know" about it. Perhaps only the justice of God takes notice of the sin, while the personality of God takes notice of the sinner.

Secondly, the matter of the lack of perfection in our world. God gives us the free will to become co-creative with Him--we create who we are in partnership with His indwelling Spirit. We also go into partnership with God by contributing to the reality of the Supreme every time we choose to do the Father's will. We who are the lowest of all creation are the most fortunate of all personalities because we experience the maximum of spiritual growth, starting out from the dust of the earth to the portals of Paradise. Even though it may not seem like it on this imperfect world, we are the most fortunate of all personalities.
If the Father's Spirit is leading you Enlightened then He is leading you towards Himself. Trust the leading of the indwelling Adjuster and be willing to listen to it's voice. If you want to commit your life to Jesus be willing to learn to love as he loves us, and live the great truths he lived and taught.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:09 pm +0000
Posts: 4
Location: Florida
All I know is what the lord revelies in the scripture.

I feel we scince are the Lords creation and children he sets the rules like our parents do. I also feel that as children we do have the right to ask WHY? otherwise we wouldnt learn. Our faith in my parents judgement was never in question. So like them I have faith in the Lords. I mean the other supjects we could go on and on. Why ? did the Lord allow 6 million of his chosen to be chruely be murderd by Hitler?

But, In revalation will destroy invading armies in the holyland that attack his people? I feel he can do what he wants. It's his show.

And for all the misirey in the world paridise is our payoff. So what is a little pain, blood and suffering. Without pain how would we would not know plesure.!

How can we know Heaven if we don't spend some time in HELL.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:16 pm +0000
Posts: 424
Location: Chicopee, MA
Enlightened,

Much of what you say is true. The problem is that the why's may be well beyond our comprehension as humans. Faith that our Father is good is the bridge for this gap.

Bill,
Faith son

_________________
Read the Urantia Papers. Read them again!
Image

http://billurantia3.bravehost.com//welc ... ALITY.html


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:59 pm +0000
Posts: 94
Location: Newport Beach, CA
The Intelligent Designer proclaims

I am the Intelligent Designer;
I am what mankind has decided to call God.
I did not come from nowhere.
I play no magic tricks on man.
I did not create the earth by casting spells.
I had a humble beginning the same as man;
My beginning was at the dawn of spirituality.
My wisdom grows as more spirits unite
After the cessation of life after much physical strife.
Throughout time I have been named God,
Allah, Jehovah, The Great Spirit, and many more.
I do not judge man for his vanity or naivety
To be the one who claims to please me the most.
I am easy to please. I require very little.
I only want you to do what is best for mankind.
I will bless you and wish you well.
I will inspire your mind and you will
Accomplish the unfathomable.
I require no worship. I need nothing from man.
I am self-sufficient. I am spirit.

Develop your spirit wisely, the best that you can.
Live your life for the betterment of man.
Your spirit will soon be with me and then
Together we will see and traverse the universe.
There are many wonders to behold,
Your spirit will soar.
You will partake in all the wisdom
That has been gathered from the beginning of time.
The stars will be your playgrounds.
You can play with the animals,
Be with your loved ones,
Listen to the greatest opera,
Stage or musical performances,
Or you can just relax next to a bubbling brook
And enjoy the scenery.
You feel no pain, despair,
Heartache, or negative emotions.
You are now One with me.
You are with the Intelligent Designer
You are with God my child.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:51 pm +0000
Posts: 269
Location: USA
Hey everyone :P

Enlightened, you have been taught the doctrine of original sin and of it being inherited down the generations. Real sin isn't a physical trait, it is a conscious attitude against spiritual realities which is a choice. Alot of the pain that we see in this world is a result of an early default by divine Sons which impeded normal development on our world. Conflict also persists because of our ancestry from the aggressive and violent animal kingdom.

There are an untold number of normal evolutionary worlds in the universe containing free-will moral creatures like us. The universe as a whole is progressing superbly and as planned by our divine Creators. We simply get the added character value of living on a more demanding and challenging birth planet. Have you checked out the Urantia Book yet?

_________________
"Through art and philosophy the material-minded man is inveigled into the contemplation of the spiritual realities and universe values of eternal meanings." 5:4.4


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:42 am +0000
Posts: 61
Location: Brattleboro, Vermont USA
Dear Enlightened,

Rather than thinking of human beings as being created as inevitable sinners, consider that we are at the very beginning of a long spiritual journey, an awakening toward the heart of God. Like all very young (mortal) learners, we make mistakes. Watching any child will provide the example you need in answer to why mistakes are allowed to happen. It is through them that we learn most deeply the lessons that are the most valuable.

I am personally not very fond of the pain and trial of life's lessons, yet. But I have reached a point where I realize the value of each challenge we face and each choice we make. Ultimately the choices we make which lead us toward the path of the Father are the ones I value the most. But the choices we make which take us onto a different path open a wealth of learning opportunities for us as well.

Now I will borrow two quotes from the Urantia Book that seem to address some of the facets of your very deep question:

Quote:
The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

1. Is courage--strength of character--desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

2. Is altruism--service of one's fellows--desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

3. Is hope--the grandeur of trust--desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

4. Is faith--the supreme assertion of human thought--desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

6. Is idealism--the approaching concept of the divine--desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.

7. Is loyalty--devotion to highest duty--desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

8. Is unselfishness--the spirit of self-forgetfulness--desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

9. Is pleasure--the satisfaction of happiness--desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities."
(3:5.5)

The Urantia Book, P. 51


Then this quote from Jesus:

Quote:
"Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest."

The Urantia Book, P. 1429


I hope this is helpful for you. In truth, J. Barry is correct, "...the answers will be yours, not mine."

William

_________________
It is my prayer that the maturing relationship between human beings, God and our home in space will continue to strengthen and all of us will embrace the extraordinary Divine Love being offered.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:42 am +0000
Posts: 61
Location: Brattleboro, Vermont USA
sorry... yet another mistake! :wink:

_________________
It is my prayer that the maturing relationship between human beings, God and our home in space will continue to strengthen and all of us will embrace the extraordinary Divine Love being offered.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:04 pm +0000
Posts: 568
It seems Artguy's answers and quotes are absolutely right on. I like the example about 'watching a child.'

Is a child 'covered in sin' as he/she struggles to walk? No. The child - like you and me - is a wondrous soul exploring physical reality. The real test for the child will be how he/she interracts with other children?

Thoughtful? Selfish? Kindhearted? These and other qualities are the demonstrable things that show us who we are. Evolution of the physical (including science and technology) brings us to a higher level. Evolution of the sociological (including governmental, cultural, and eduactional systems) brings us to a higher level.

Personal decisions within our physical/sociological unit reveals who we are
and where we are heading.

Religious revelations - including the Urantia Book - give us a guide,
a compass which shows us the rightness of how we are doing.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:05 pm +0000
Posts: 56
Location: Pennsylvania
Greetings Brother,
Nice post.

Quote:
Evolution of the physical (including science and technology) brings us
to a higher level.


I was thinking of 'evolution of the spiritual' along the lines of Eph 4:11-15.

It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.


Quote:
Religious revelations - including the Urantia Book - give us a guide,
a compass which shows us the rightness of how we are doing.


I like that :smile: I thought of this from the book of Psalms in relation to the above quote.

"... in thy light shall we see light" (Psalms 36:9b)

Praise the Father for the "Word of God". Praise the Father for the bestowal of Michael/Jesus... "the Word made flesh"

Quote:
20:5.1 The Eternal Son is the eternal Word of God. The Eternal Son is the perfect expression of the "first" absolute and infinite thought of his eternal Father. When a personal duplication or divine extension of this Original Son starts on a bestowal mission of mortal incarnation, it becomes literally true that the divine "Word is made flesh," and that the Word thus dwells among the lowly beings of animal origin.


Again... I say HallaluYah.

Hank


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:28 pm +0000
Posts: 76
Life implies freedom of action. Where there is no freedom of action, there is no life. The greater the quality of the life, the greater is the freedom of action in it, and vice-versa. So, in God, it is without limit! And, furthest away from God, in the lowest parts of the Realms of Darkness which some call "Hell", there is only COMPLETE rigidity! - Very similar to what physicists know today about the Big Bang Source and Blackholes.
Therefore with the gift of life, one also receives freedom of action. But in the train of that also comes responsibility for all one does with this freedom of action.

_________________
Pursue truth with rigour and vigour.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group