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fanofVan wrote:
Welcome Enlightened One!

I think perhaps Paper 121 explains the perspective. The Roman Empire and the Judaic monotheism were the reasons for the site selection for Michael's 7th bestowal. The location and family were selected with great specificity, historical specificity as well as cultural and religious.

Paper 97 also helps give context to the issue.

97:10.8 (1076.5) And thus the successive teachers of Israel accomplished the greatest feat in the evolution of religion ever to be effected on Urantia: the gradual but continuous transformation of the barbaric concept of the savage demon Yahweh, the jealous and cruel spirit god of the fulminating Sinai volcano, to the later exalted and supernal concept of the supreme Yahweh, creator of all things and the loving and merciful Father of all mankind. And this Hebraic concept of God was the highest human visualization of the Universal Father up to that time when it was further enlarged and so exquisitely amplified by the personal teachings and life example of his Son, Michael of Nebadon.

Also see Paper 68 - The Dawn of Civilization - which describes the very birth of civilization in this region. All long before Judaism. The world's ancient history is well specified. Check it out!

To claim that the UB is Christian or Judaic centric is a real stretch and ignores the obvious historical record provided I think. The UB is truly Machiventa centric I think. See Papers 93-98. The history of religion and Michael's bestowal is the story of Melchizedek's missionaries and evolutionary monotheism. The Greco/Roman/Judaic/Egyptian Mediterranean cultures carried the Garden and Andite and Melchizedek's teachings and traditions more so than any other locations or cultures.

Is it surprising that the territory surrounding the Garden and Dalamatia and Van's tribal lands are the district which world history and religious traditions of 500,000 years are centered?

I don't think so...no.

8)


Isn't the narrative of Machiventa an amplification and enlargement of the Biblical story of Melchizedek?


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Enlightened One asks: "Isn't the narrative of Machiventa an amplification and enlargement of the Biblical story of Melchizedek?"

Me here: Or is it that there is a minor mention of a real significant historic figure in the Bible? Are the Pharaohs fictional then? Is Jesus fictional as well? Hmmm...

I have always shared this skepticism of the Biblical record of history. I always thought the Garden an illogical myth which contradictrd obvious evolutionary evidence, a fiction of the Jews to support the Chosen People doctrine. The UB teaches that I was wrong...and right...a little of each (the Garden was real but there were/are no chosen people and Adam and Eve are not the first humans and there is no original sin and lots of other details I was both wrong and right about....evidently....or according to the UB's presentation of history).

Are Turkey and Persia the crossroads of ancient culture and civilization and agriculture and technology? Is the Bible the only evidence of this? No scientific corroboration? And from whence came monotheism?

The UB is not kind to Judaism or Christianity and certainly does not sustain or support their fictional histories, mythologies, creeds, or doctrines but, rather, reveals their primitive superstitions and many inventions of imagination that are not historically accurate.

The Bible tells a false tale of nationalism and atonement. The UB gives a historical record of planetary evolutionary progress and the story of religious experience by the each and by the all.

I always found Joseph Campbell's work an interesting glimpse into the truth within myth and the collective history found in local mythologies. Just because the Bible is incorrect about so much does not mean it's history is wrong about everything. Perhaps for some the babies of truth are rejected and tossed out with the bathwaters of myth and fable ? Hmmm...

There is a planetary history of our evolutionary progress. One of the most impressive things about the UB in my first reading was the logical presentation of that history. There have been many here at TruthBook with historical skepticism. But I don't understand the false claim that the UB somehow validates or perpetuates or substantiates the Bible.

Not even remotely so. A rather substantial contradiction of the UB historical presentation I think.

8)

Just a reminder that no one is here to convince anyone about the veracity of the Papers or convert anyone to any particular set of beliefs. We each believe what we believe. We gather here to discover the contents of the UB and discuss the meaning of that content. All new readers are, and some long time readers remain, skeptical of the UB's claims. No worries.

However...the UB says what it says and doesn't say what it doesn't say. To be skeptical of the UB is normal enough...it is filled with fantastic claims, but one cannot accurately declare that the UB "definitely has a Judeo-Christian slant". Such a perspective not born out by any detailed reading or analysis of the text itself.

The perspective of our world's history and evolution in the UB - whether astrological, geophysical, biological, species specific, social, cultural, and/or religious - are all very interesting and varyingly conform to and contradict modern theories and current technological or scientific measurements. The UB celebrates the scientific method and critical thinking. There is much within the text which has no physical evidence or proofs and much of world history is certainly pre-historic or before written records. And the written histories we have are not objective and truthful or accurate in their presentations either.

So...speculations are inevitable!!! Enjoy!!

:?: :idea: :!: :wink: :D 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:39 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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ketsune23 wrote:
Hi everyone,
I left Christianity and the Bible +- 3 years ago and I follow deism until someone introduced me to the UB last year. I've been reading the UB for some time but I can't understand why the UB quotes or tries to correct the stories of the Bible? This is a huge disappointment for me since I reject the Bible and I do not feel comfortable when the UB quotes the Bible (it only quotes the Bible, not any other holy book) or uses some of its "heroes". Nowhere the UB quotes the Quran, the Vedas or any other holy book but just the Bible, and I have a BIG BIG problem with that the Bible is a book full of fairy tales and fantasy stories. The UB has great cosmology but why spoil it with the Bible stories? IF the Urantia Book is a WORLDWIDE revelation to EVERY human being on this planet it should avoid so much Bible and be more EQUAL or not quoting the Bible at all. A person who has Buddhism or Hinduism as their background would NEVER accept the Urantia Book teachings because it is too much "Jewish\Christian" and most of them probably NEVER read the Bible at all to understand who is Abraham or Moses or any other biblical character quoted in the UB much less the corrections it makes to the Jewish stories. I want to believe the UB but some things are just ridiculous to me. I give you an example: Why the UB tries to explain the origin of the Shabbat if perhaps 99% of the people in the world never kept the Shabbat in their lives??? I see here the touch of Saddler's Adventism. I was an Adventist too and the way the book explains the origin of Shabbat is the same way the Seventh Day Adventist Church prophet which by coincidence was Saddler's friend explains it. I feel that the UB is more of a Western creation or to the Western world than a WORLDWIDE revelation as it claims


Hmmm....there are thousands of quotes and a collection of humanity's highest concepts presented in the UB....from many religious texts and teachings too! It is simple falsehood to claim that only the Bible is quoted...nonsense! Untrue. A simple lack of knowledge on your part I think. All doctrines of all religions which require certain beliefs or behaviors or ceremonies or priests are shown to be lacking...all of them. It is not ritual or beliefs that delivers spiritual progress. The Jewish sabbath is not taught nor recommended to anyone by the UB and no rituals or superstitions are presented as helpful...they are merely explained in an evolutionary context.

I understand your skepticism of and disappointment with the Bible and the Christian denial of science and the obvious fact of geological and astronomical time frames (and so many other realities denied in the church of my youth). I too found the Bible a poor source for inspiration and credible history. And the church preached fear of an angry and blood thirsty God. Only beliefs and behaviors "saved" us from eternal suffering no matter our ignorance or intentions. Wow.

But, as someone who abandoned Christianity and discovered the Jesusonian Gospel while embracing Taoism and Zen, I am a little confused why any Eastern religionist or any student of any philosophy would be offended by the UB. Indeed, it is so very Eastern...as was the Master himself. The beauty of learning by paradox and koan. Balance and harmony. The dual nature of humanity. The connection to both spirit and material and the great I AM presence within. The WAY of being and becoming. Satori and Nirvana. Karma. Again...your claims lack truth and display ignorance (lack of knowledge).

The UB is the story of social and religious evolution and begins long before Judaism or Christianity and merely places them in historical and evolutionary context. Have you read Papers 89 or 94? Or the description and study of the World's Religions - Paper 131?

I hope you will forgive my skepticism of your skepticism. But your claims about the UB do not reflect my experience or understanding at all.

Perhaps a full reading might help with your perspective and understanding? I think so. And hope you will take the time to more fully explore and examine this amazing story of our world and universe realities!!

I have found the UB to be a compelling and inspiring view of time and creation and source and destiny and purpose. It really helped me gain context and perspective that has helped me in very practical ways. The UB offers teachings and methods for a progressive and experiential wisdom that leads to a personal peace and trust as I face the uncertainties and vicissitudes of daily life!

Best wishes!

8) Bradly

The UB authors disagree with your claim that Hindus and Buddhists do not and would not relate to the Gospel of the Universe...the Fatherhood of God and the Family of humanity. God's friendly universe and Divine Affection is a universal teaching that is appreciated by all who embrace it!!

94:4.8 (1031.9) While Hinduism has long failed to vivify the Indian people, at the same time it has usually been a tolerant religion. Its great strength lies in the fact that it has proved to be the most adaptive, amorphic religion to appear on Urantia. It is capable of almost unlimited change and possesses an unusual range of flexible adjustment from the high and semimonotheistic speculations of the intellectual Brahman to the arrant fetishism and primitive cult practices of the debased and depressed classes of ignorant believers.

94:4.9 (1032.1) Hinduism has survived because it is essentially an integral part of the basic social fabric of India. It has no great hierarchy which can be disturbed or destroyed; it is interwoven into the life pattern of the people. It has an adaptability to changing conditions that excels all other cults, and it displays a tolerant attitude of adoption toward many other religions, Gautama Buddha and even Christ himself being claimed as incarnations of Vishnu.

94:4.10 (1032.2) Today, in India, the great need is for the portrayal of the Jesusonian gospel—the Fatherhood of God and the sonship and consequent brotherhood of all men, which is personally realized in loving ministry and social service. In India the philosophical framework is existent, the cult structure is present; all that is needed is the vitalizing spark of the dynamic love portrayed in the original gospel of the Son of Man, divested of the Occidental dogmas and doctrines which have tended to make Michael’s life bestowal a white man’s religion.

94:9.6 (1038.4) Buddhism is a living, growing religion today because it succeeds in conserving many of the highest moral values of its adherents. It promotes calmness and self-control, augments serenity and happiness, and does much to prevent sorrow and mourning. Those who believe this philosophy live better lives than many who do not.

94:12.4 (1041.2) The great strength of Buddhism is that its adherents are free to choose truth from all religions; such freedom of choice has seldom characterized a Urantian faith. In this respect the Shin sect of Japan has become one of the most progressive religious groups in the world; it has revived the ancient missionary spirit of Gautama’s followers and has begun to send teachers to other peoples. This willingness to appropriate truth from any and all sources is indeed a commendable tendency to appear among religious believers during the first half of the twentieth century after Christ.

94:12.5 (1041.3) Buddhism itself is undergoing a twentieth-century renaissance. Through contact with Christianity the social aspects of Buddhism have been greatly enhanced. The desire to learn has been rekindled in the hearts of the monk priests of the brotherhood, and the spread of education throughout this faith will be certainly provocative of new advances in religious evolution.

94:12.6 (1041.4) At the time of this writing, much of Asia rests its hope in Buddhism. Will this noble faith, that has so valiantly carried on through the dark ages of the past, once again receive the truth of expanded cosmic realities even as the disciples of the great teacher in India once listened to his proclamation of new truth? Will this ancient faith respond once more to the invigorating stimulus of the presentation of new concepts of God and the Absolute for which it has so long searched?

94:12.7 (1041.5) All Urantia is waiting for the proclamation of the ennobling message of Michael, unencumbered by the accumulated doctrines and dogmas of nineteen centuries of contact with the religions of evolutionary origin. The hour is striking for presenting to Buddhism, to Christianity, to Hinduism, even to the peoples of all faiths, not the gospel about Jesus, but the living, spiritual reality of the gospel of Jesus.

Me here: There are so many different angles and approaches and perspectives of reality that the UB appeals to: scientific, historical, evolution of species, atomic and astronomy, mass and motion and vector and velocity physics, biology, social, religious, etc. To declare that anyone would be unable to relate to the UB is to ignore the totality of its presentations and the balance and harmony it so exquisitely presents.

Did you know that the Jesusonian Gospel is the Gospel of all Nebadon? It has been repeated on Urantia upon every single Epochal Revelation and on every world and to every being on every world in our universe!!

It is a gospel believed or taught in some form by every monotheistic religion and many others considered pagan by some. Even barbarians and children know this gospel as it is whispered by the small still voice within! Although Christianity and all evolutionary religions offer distortions and primitive superstitions in their creeds and doctrines, we are told that the Gospel OF Jesus is alive and growing in effect and will rule our world in time to come!

God is good. God is great. God loves all people as his children. We are all one family in a friendly universe. That is the universal Gospel. The Jesusonian Gospel. The good news of personal salvation, resurrection, and eternal adventure! The Gospel of hope, love, and universal brotherhood.

8)


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I don't think your struggle is with the Bible vs. UB

I can also tell that when you say Part 4 sounds like Christian writings about Jesus from the 19th Century, and "you can never be sure..." tells me you are waiting for something to tell you this book is authentic.

Let me tell you what convinced me it was authentic.

The UB gives three dates as to the conjunction that occurred the year Jesus was born, and how this conjunction found its way into the story of Wise Men and the guiding Star of Bethlehem.

The authors choose three specific dates when the Mars and Jupiter conjunction, occurring on March 29, September 5th and December 29th of 7BC.

Nowhere in any current literature is there any reference to this conjunction, even when the conjunction occurred again recently, news media only referred to this conjunction as happening a thousand years ago, and certainly not 7BC.

However, there are astronomy programs that allow you to pick date and time locations to see what the night sky looked like from any place on earth and I was able to confirm the UB dates as accurate. I had a computer to do this, whereas there were no computers in 1934.

I even called Lowell Observatory and ask if they knew of any significant conjunction occurring on said dates and they said no, that was around 2005.

I asked a professor of mathematics (Dr. Phil Calabrese who is also a UB reader) what he thought of those dates being correct in the UB and he told me that if they had guessed those dates they would have had a 50 million to 1 chance of getting all of the dates right as well as the conjunction itself. In other words, it is unlikely that they guessed.

So how did they know when there is no available reference or even record of this conjunction? The answer is that they have access to that information because they were there.

Once you start to fathom what you have in your hands, you will realize that what you have truth-seekers have been searching for, for thousands of years.

You have a history book of life itself. At least that's how I feel about it.

_________________
Jim Watkins
SW Florida


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