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Another thing is in the interests of psychology, Freudian psychology or Jungian psychiatry, (theoretically) the secondary midwayer wrote the fourth Book of Urantia in order to share a portrait of Jesus as a child, for the edification of scientifical considerations. Why is that valuable to provide the basic patterns of a healthy format of psychology. The motivation of Jesus is potential in the nature of man.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Hey Kelly, I haven’t been on this forum for a long time , but I just got an email saying someone replied so now I’m here lol.

I haven’t caught up fully with the conversation I think that the last time I responded could be traced back to like the 6 th page lol. I’m happy however that the conversation still went on.

I left the conversation because I felt like I didn’t have a fair voice in the matter. I had to respond to like 3 people who where aguring points against me, not only that but my original concern was the prophecy and revelation aspect of the Bible and the urantia book and when I got to the heart of the issue which was how can I trust these revelations and how did these revelation come to us. It was then when the admin told me if I spoke about this matter any further I would be banned or this forum would be banned or something like that, but the nonetheless the effect was that we could not speak about how the revelation of the urantia book got to us.... which in turn muted my other points I made saying that this is a religion like every other religion and dogmatic as any other because people do not agree on exactly how we got the urantia book. Meaning there are denominations breaking off particularly on this point.

So I felt like my point was muted and wasn’t allowed to be discussed but since I just got a random notification in my email , I’ll respond briefly if anyone is still interested in this conversation.

Going back to where I left off with my supernatural experience unfortunately it was also dismissed with some quoting verses of the urantia book, claiming I wasn’t connected to God and that’s how the devil got to me before. I said Idk if that’s necessarily true because I knew then and know now , that people could do witchcraft to you and you wouldn’t even know, for example which I don’t think I mentioned, the practice of divination. This is the practice of reading somebody’s mind , and it doesn’t matter whether or not your spiritual. The practice is done in the spirit realm, and in the witch craft world this is kindergarten stuff. So Idk how true it is that the devil can’t do anything to you simple just because you have faith. The “devil” does not need permission to read someone’s mind since “he” is in the spirit and the mind is the spirit or in the spirit however you want to look at it. Not only does the “devil” not need permission but neither does the person using the dark arts. So that’s my stance on the opening topic and witch craft.

I understand what the urantia book is saying about prophecy, it is claiming that they’re not necessarily accurate, or at least told in away where the people in the time could comprehend and could have been corrupted by the intentions of the prophets. But then that was my concern, how did we get the urantia book? Is there a possibility that this is not 100% true or only true depending on someone’s level of comprehension of it. Again there are differing opinions about how we got the urantia book and we can’t necessarily talk about that here.

I also understand what the urantia book is saying about witch craft, but I wonder how many people who responded to what my supernatural experience was, ever had to deal with witchcraft or someone doing witchcraft around them or if they where even ever targeted by someone who practices the dark arts and if there opinion would actually change instead of just assuming that person must not be connected to God because that’s what the urantia book teaches... Instead of just assuming that the urantia book is 100% true.... Like the Bible it can be true enough so that it’s useful and I feel like we need to have our minds open enough to accept that. Especially since the book starts off by saying it is being conveyed in certain way so that this generation in this time and age could understand... how about the future generation? If the Bible was reveled and they didn’t get the full picture... why would we assume we have the full picture?

As I only went back to page 9, the last page to see where the conversation went , and Idk how it got to politics but I don’t even want to talk about politics lol but I do believe in we the people because if we the human race is ever going to evolve it has to be together. And I do believe it is our responsibility to shed light on the world one conversation at a time.

To your last point I think psychologically is very important it shows how the mind works scientifically and especially in prophecy since in the Bible a lot of prophecy came through dreams and visions and they were always conveyed in a way the individual could understand , using the things they see in everyday life and though Freud and Jung where very interested in the dream life they differed in their conclusions, one believing these were just ideas bouncing off around another believing they represented archetypes, but they both understood psychology was not just a science but a tool to have for a greater understanding of ourselves.

And I do believe you can tap into the prophetic, I’ve had 1 dream that was profound that delt with my future. Others that were more like short sighted visions. However when I’ve had these dreams I was always in fasting in prayer and meditation.


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Welcome back CorleoneLeone!!

I appreciate your original posts and your return. I look forward to more time in study and reflectipn with you.

Have you ever come across the term the "reality response" regarding the personal discernment of truth?

6. The Cosmic Mind

16:6.1 (191.4) The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind, the intellectual potential of the grand universe. This cosmic mind is a subabsolute manifestation of the mind of the Third Source and Center and, in certain ways, is functionally related to the mind of the evolving Supreme Being.

16:6.2 (191.5) On a world like Urantia we do not encounter the direct influence of the Seven Master Spirits in the affairs of the human races. You live under the immediate influence of the Creative Spirit of Nebadon. Nevertheless these same Master Spirits dominate the basic reactions of all creature mind because they are the actual sources of the intellectual and spiritual potentials which have been specialized in the local universes for function in the lives of those individuals who inhabit the evolutionary worlds of time and space.

16:6.3 (191.6) The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.

16:6.4 (191.7) There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

16:6.5 (192.1) The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:

16:6.6 (192.2) 1. Causation—the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.

16:6.7 (192.3) 2. Duty—the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.

16:6.8 (192.4) 3. Worship—the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.

16:6.9 (192.5) These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

16:6.10 (192.6) In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.

16:6.11 (192.7) It is the purpose of education to develop and sharpen these innate endowments of the human mind; of civilization to express them; of life experience to realize them; of religion to ennoble them; and of personality to unify them.

Me here: So based on this teaching, why and how do mortals still embrace so much falsehood and fantasy and self invented beliefs without any factual or truth content?? Is it experience, maturity, wisdom, intelligence, or what? In any case......

I believe we are all connected to God and that the UB teaches that reality. I believe we may each grow sufficiently in the Spirit to discover and discern the truth for ourselves. But more importantly, we may have enough faith and trust in God to overcome all false beliefs and lack of facts to embrace God's love and the eternal adventure.

Bradly


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CorleoneLeone writes:

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Going back to where I left off with my supernatural experience unfortunately it was also dismissed with some quoting verses of the urantia book, claiming I wasn’t connected to God and that’s how the devil got to me before. I said Idk if that’s necessarily true because I knew then and know now , that people could do witchcraft to you and you wouldn’t even know, for example which I don’t think I mentioned, the practice of divination. This is the practice of reading somebody’s mind , and it doesn’t matter whether or not your spiritual. The practice is done in the spirit realm, and in the witch craft world this is kindergarten stuff. So Idk how true it is that the devil can’t do anything to you simple just because you have faith. The “devil” does not need permission to read someone’s mind since “he” is in the spirit and the mind is the spirit or in the spirit however you want to look at it. Not only does the “devil” not need permission but neither does the person using the dark arts. So that’s my stance on the opening topic and witch craft.


I sincerely hope that this will not again become a topic of conversation here. You are certainly free to believe what you will about this matter, but I feel it is important to say that these experiences of yours are not in keeping with the teachings of Jesus in The Urantia Book. Moreover, they are based in fear and not in love or assurance of the goodness of God.

I feel close to this issue personally because I have a sister who is afflicted by schizophrenia; much of her adult life has been ruled by belief in witchcraft and hexes, curses, and whatnot. She has lived a life of a living hell as a result of these beliefs, and I have seen the power of this fear-based belief first-hand. I am not sure which came first - the superstition or the schizophrenia, but her life is a mess as a result of these debilitating beliefs that evil people can control her mind and her life. On the upside, she maintains a belief in Jesus, too. And when counseled that her belief in the power of Jesus trumps any belief in the power of witches, she capitulates and feels better instantly. But the seeming power of gypsy warlocks and witches bubbles up to ruin her serenity with regularity. It is nothing more than paranoia, in my view, and has to be rebuked and overcome with the power of God. Hers is a case of diagnosed schizophrenia that has kept her enslaved for years.

Although many people have this belief that there is an equal and opposite power of evil against God's power of good, this is not the truth. Nothing and no one is more powerful than God. God is the creator/Father of all - including rebel spirits - and has dominion over all of them. Even Caligastia - the devil - is servile before Michael and has no power to enter men's minds. Acting on this knowledge is key to keeping one's spirit free of this kind of superstition. As Jesus counsels, these beliefs are enslaving:

Quote:
He exposed and denounced their belief in spells, ordeals, bewitching, cursing, signs, mandrakes, knotted cords, and all other forms of ignorant and enslaving superstition.


Read The Sabbath at Tiberias https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-150-the-third-preaching-tour#U150_3_1

And more info re: evil spirits and mind control:

Quote:
53:8.6 The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

53:8.7 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

53:8.8 But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: “He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not.”


So, please - if you have had such unfortunate experiences, I am sorry about that. But discussion of such things is inappropriate here. I have cited the teachings of Jesus in The Urantia Book here, and there is no equivocation in them.

the management


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One further point: CorleoneLeone says:

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I left the conversation because I felt like I didn’t have a fair voice in the matter. I had to respond to like 3 people who where aguring points against me, not only that but my original concern was the prophecy and revelation aspect of the Bible and the urantia book and when I got to the heart of the issue which was how can I trust these revelations and how did these revelation come to us. It was then when the admin told me if I spoke about this matter any further I would be banned or this forum would be banned or something like that, but the nonetheless the effect was that we could not speak about how the revelation of the urantia book got to us.... which in turn muted my other points I made saying that this is a religion like every other religion and dogmatic as any other because people do not agree on exactly how we got the urantia book. Meaning there are denominations breaking off particularly on this point.


I see no problem with discussing how the revelation came to us. It is always an interesting topic; nevertheless, the seemingly mysterious circumstances of its origins only illustrates the fact that one is invited to evaluate the contents of The Urantia Book on its merits - not its origins - and this is (to my understanding) one of the reasons for its mysterious origins. This is to circumvent falling into a trap of veneration of any of the human personalities involved, or being sidetracked by concerns over that. The content of the book stands alone, and one is free to approach it in the realm of mind and in the spirit of sincere truthseeking. It resonates in the heart of the individual - or not.

And your assertion that "this is a religion like every other religion and dogmatic as any other," is misguided. You evidently have not studied the religion of Jesus - the religion that he practiced himself, and that he taught - or you would not make such as assertion. Please see:

https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/the-religion-of-jesus

Jesus' religion of personal spiritual experience is between the individual and God.


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Dear CorleoneLeone,

You are certainly not alone in the fact that this Urantia Book is very difficult for believers to reconcile. I had much difficulty early on and was angry about what I read because it did go against my beliefs at that time.

However, I kept reading. The reason I kept reading was that I was convinced, due to the quality and the quantity, the depth and the breadth--not just of the content but also the context from which it was written. This book requires quite a demand upon each reader. It takes years to understand. Over the past twenty some years I have read it almost 4 times cover to cover and now I realize that if I am to truly understand it, I am going to have to sit with pen and paper during my 5th read and take notes to help me absorb this information, it is too vast to comprehend with just a couple of cover to cover readings. I have to say that if an individual is really serious about knowing this book thoroughly, they realize that it will take more than just a couple of decades to accomplish that.

A good many readers start reading part 4 first. Part 4 is not so demanding as is parts 1,2 and 3, and I think it has helped others find a Jesus they had been looking for that they could not find elsewhere.

I am a firm believer that you have in your possession the greatest book that has ever been placed in the hands of humans. Yet I will be the first to tell you that this revelation is not for everyone. Either it rings true for you or it does not. Only the spirit within you can testify to that.


Sincerely,

Paul


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Actually, the atonement idea isn't primitive at all, it's "advanced". The idea indicates that man is willing to do something to get his way. Man sacrifices something and God gives something to him. It's a deal man makes with God in order for man to get the guarantee he wants. In Christianity, it's even more advanced than that. Christians simply "believe" that someone else does the sacrificing for them. Heck, it's sort of akin to another idea of spiritual "efficacy" the Buddhist prayer wheel. Just spin the wheel.


Actually....atonement is one of the most primitive of all religious beliefs and doctrines! It comes from the times of Ghost Fear and the human attempt to trick the spirits into favor and to deliver good luck to the cave dwellers!!

Atonement is a payment for redemption and forgiveness and a return to the good graces of vengeful gods and spirits! Making deals with ghosts, demons, spirits, and gods is not at all "advanced".

86:7.1 (956.4) The savage felt the need of insurance, and he therefore willingly paid his burdensome premiums of fear, superstition, dread, and priest gifts toward his policy of magic insurance against ill luck. Primitive religion was simply the payment of premiums on insurance against the perils of the forests; civilized man pays material premiums against the accidents of industry and the exigencies of modern modes of living.

Consider a study of the topic on Pagans and the Evolution of Religion?! :idea: :biggrin:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5757

87:0.1 (958.1) THE ghost cult evolved as an offset to the hazards of bad luck; its primitive religious observances were the outgrowth of anxiety about bad luck and of the inordinate fear of the dead. None of these early religions had much to do with the recognition of Deity or with reverence for the superhuman; their rites were mostly negative, designed to avoid, expel, or coerce ghosts. The ghost cult was nothing more nor less than insurance against disaster; it had nothing to do with investment for higher and future returns.

87:1.2 (958.4) Though the savage credited ghosts with supernatural powers, he hardly conceived of them as having supernatural intelligence. Many tricks and stratagems were practiced in an effort to hoodwink and deceive the ghosts; civilized man still pins much faith on the hope that an outward manifestation of piety will in some manner deceive even an omniscient Deity.


87:2.1 (959.2) In religion the negative program of ghost placation long preceded the positive program of spirit coercion and supplication. The first acts of human worship were phenomena of defense, not reverence. Modern man deems it wise to insure against fire; so the savage thought it the better part of wisdom to provide insurance against ghost bad luck. The effort to secure this protection constituted the techniques and rituals of the ghost cult.


87:4.1 (961.2) Ghost fear was the fountainhead of all world religion; and for ages many tribes clung to the old belief in one class of ghosts. They taught that man had good luck when the ghost was pleased, bad luck when he was angered.


87:5.3 (962.4) The savage visualizes the good spirits as going about their business, requiring little from human beings. It is the bad ghosts and spirits who must be kept in good humor. Accordingly, primitive peoples paid more attention to their malevolent ghosts than to their benign spirits.

87:5.4 (962.5) Human prosperity was supposed to be especially provocative of the envy of evil spirits, and their method of retaliation was to strike back through a human agency and by the technique of the evil eye. That phase of the cult which had to do with spirit avoidance was much concerned with the machinations of the evil eye. The fear of it became almost world-wide. Pretty women were veiled to protect them from the evil eye; subsequently many women who desired to be considered beautiful adopted this practice. Because of this fear of bad spirits, children were seldom allowed out after dark, and the early prayers always included the petition, “deliver us from the evil eye.”

87:5.8 (963.3) Under the spirit cult, life was at best a gamble, the result of spirit control. One’s future was not the result of effort, industry, or talent except as they might be utilized to influence the spirits. The ceremonies of spirit propitiation constituted a heavy burden, rendering life tedious and virtually unendurable. From age to age and from generation to generation, race after race has sought to improve this superghost doctrine, but no generation has ever yet dared to wholly reject it.

87:5.9 (963.4) The intention and will of the spirits were studied by means of omens, oracles, and signs. And these spirit messages were interpreted by divination, soothsaying, magic, ordeals, and astrology. The whole cult was a scheme designed to placate, satisfy, and buy off the spirits through this disguised bribery.

87:5.14 (963.9) It was not merely out of curiosity that the ancients sought to know the future; they wanted to dodge ill luck. Divination was simply an attempt to avoid trouble. During these times, dreams were regarded as prophetic, while everything out of the ordinary was considered an omen. And even today the civilized races are cursed with the belief in signs, tokens, and other superstitious remnants of the advancing ghost cult of old. Slow, very slow, is man to abandon those methods whereby he so gradually and painfully ascended the evolutionary scale of life.

Me here: So primitive...and yet....still so "modern"!! :roll:

87:6.17 (965.4) Modern man no longer attempts openly to coerce the spirits, though he still evinces a disposition to bargain with Deity. And he still swears, knocks on wood, crosses his fingers, and follows expectoration with some trite phrase; once it was a magical formula.

89:8.6 (983.4) But the idea of making a covenant with the gods did finally arrive. Evolutionary man eventually acquired such moral dignity that he dared to bargain with his gods. And so the business of offering sacrifices gradually developed into the game of man’s philosophic bargaining with God. And all this represented a new device for insuring against bad luck or, rather, an enhanced technique for the more definite purchase of prosperity. Do not entertain the mistaken idea that these early sacrifices were a free gift to the gods, a spontaneous offering of gratitude or thanksgiving; they were not expressions of true worship.

89:8.7 (983.5) Primitive forms of prayer were nothing more nor less than bargaining with the spirits, an argument with the gods. It was a kind of bartering in which pleading and persuasion were substituted for something more tangible and costly. The developing commerce of the races had inculcated the spirit of trade and had developed the shrewdness of barter; and now these traits began to appear in man’s worship methods. And as some men were better traders than others, so some were regarded as better prayers than others. The prayer of a just man was held in high esteem. A just man was one who had paid all accounts to the spirits, had fully discharged every ritual obligation to the gods.

89:8.8 (983.6) Early prayer was hardly worship; it was a bargaining petition for health, wealth, and life. And in many respects prayers have not much changed with the passing of the ages. They are still read out of books, recited formally, and written out for emplacement on wheels and for hanging on trees, where the blowing of the winds will save man the trouble of expending his own breath.

89:10.1 (984.4) Ancient man only attained consciousness of favor with God through sacrifice. Modern man must develop new techniques of achieving the self-consciousness of salvation. The consciousness of sin persists in the mortal mind, but the thought patterns of salvation therefrom have become outworn and antiquated. The reality of the spiritual need persists, but intellectual progress has destroyed the olden ways of securing peace and consolation for mind and soul.


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:22 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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So....prophecy in the Bible and prophecy in general is presented and discussed in depth in the UB. Prophets may be charlatans and frauds, or simply sincere but false and misguided, or may be inspired, and if so, still either true or not true even when if the prophecy is sincerely believed by the so called prophet.

Prophecy is a normal experience and expression of evolutionary religion. It is not true or false because it is or is claimed to be a prophecy. Certainly some prophets are inspired by personal revelation and insight and proclaim truth.

Ironically enough, the UB teaches that John's so called Book of Revelation is not at all prophetic even though it is a result of a personal revelation and vision. None of the Apostles should be considered prophets at all. John the Baptist was the last prophet of "the old order" according to the Papers.

92:3.2 (1005.4) Religion has always been largely a matter of rites, rituals, observances, ceremonies, and dogmas. It has usually become tainted with that persistently mischief-making error, the chosen-people delusion. The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin—they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear.

5. The Great Religious Leaders

92:5.1 (1008.3) In evolutionary religion, the gods are conceived to exist in the likeness of man’s image; in revelatory religion, men are taught that they are God’s sons—even fashioned in the finite image of divinity; in the synthesized beliefs compounded from the teachings of revelation and the products of evolution, the God concept is a blend of:

92:5.2 (1008.4) 1. The pre-existent ideas of the evolutionary cults.

92:5.3 (1008.5) 2. The sublime ideals of revealed religion.

92:5.4 (1008.6) 3. The personal viewpoints of the great religious leaders, the prophets and teachers of mankind.

92:5.5 (1008.7) Most great religious epochs have been inaugurated by the life and teachings of some outstanding personality; leadership has originated a majority of the worth-while moral movements of history. And men have always tended to venerate the leader, even at the expense of his teachings; to revere his personality, even though losing sight of the truths which he proclaimed. And this is not without reason; there is an instinctive longing in the heart of evolutionary man for help from above and beyond. This craving is designed to anticipate the appearance on earth of the Planetary Prince and the later Material Sons. On Urantia man has been deprived of these superhuman leaders and rulers, and therefore does he constantly seek to make good this loss by enshrouding his human leaders with legends pertaining to supernatural origins and miraculous careers.

93:10.3 (1024.5) Machiventa Melchizedek continued to take a great interest in the affairs of the descendants of those men who had believed in his teachings when he was in the flesh. But the progeny of Abraham through Isaac as intermarried with the Kenites were the only line which long continued to nourish any clear concept of the Salem teachings.

93:10.4 (1024.6) This same Melchizedek continued to collaborate throughout the nineteen succeeding centuries with the many prophets and seers, thus endeavoring to keep alive the truths of Salem until the fullness of the time for Michael’s appearance on earth.

93:10.5 (1025.1) Machiventa continued as a planetary receiver up to the times of the triumph of Michael on Urantia. Subsequently, he was attached to the Urantia service on Jerusem as one of the four and twenty directors, only just recently having been elevated to the position of personal ambassador on Jerusem of the Creator Son, bearing the title Vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia. It is our belief that, as long as Urantia remains an inhabited planet, Machiventa Melchizedek will not be fully returned to the duties of his order of sonship but will remain, speaking in the terms of time, forever a planetary minister representing Christ Michael.

93:10.6 (1025.2) As his was an emergency bestowal on Urantia, it does not appear from the records what Machiventa’s future may be. It may develop that the Melchizedek corps of Nebadon have sustained the permanent loss of one of their number. Recent rulings handed down from the Most Highs of Edentia, and later confirmed by the Ancients of Days of Uversa, strongly suggest that this bestowal Melchizedek is destined to take the place of the fallen Planetary Prince, Caligastia. If our conjectures in this respect are correct, it is altogether possible that Machiventa Melchizedek may again appear in person on Urantia and in some modified manner resume the role of the dethroned Planetary Prince, or else appear on earth to function as vicegerent Planetary Prince representing Christ Michael, who now actually holds the title of Planetary Prince of Urantia. While it is far from clear to us as to what Machiventa’s destiny may be, nevertheless, events which have so recently taken place strongly suggest that the foregoing conjectures are probably not far from the truth.


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So....Prophecy in the bible and revelation in the urantia book...?

Hmmmm......

Prophecy may be a result of personal revelation....but prophecy is never itself revelation....according to the Papers. Prophecy may be an invention of mind and, likewise, so can that which is considered revelation. The truth content of personal revelation depends upon the person who received it and who ponders or discerns its content and meaning.

Human prophets are never the source of Epochal Revelation according to the UB. There have only been 5 of those and always do they come by way of celestials....including the UB.

Personal revelation is TO the individual person and FOR the individual person. But some persons feel compelled to share their insights and inspirations and visions....which are then considered prophecy in some cases.

92:4.4 (1007.4) There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:

92:4.5 (1007.5) 1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.

92:4.6 (1007.6) 2. The Edenic teachings. Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.

92:4.7 (1007.7) 3. Melchizedek of Salem. This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.

92:4.8 (1008.1) 4. Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.

92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

101:2.12 (1107.2) Revelation as an epochal phenomenon is periodic; as a personal human experience it is continuous. Divinity functions in mortal personality as the Adjuster gift of the Father, as the Spirit of Truth of the Son, and as the Holy Spirit of the Universe Spirit, while these three supermortal endowments are unified in human experiential evolution as the ministry of the Supreme.

101:2.13 (1107.3) True religion is an insight into reality, the faith-child of the moral consciousness, and not a mere intellectual assent to any body of dogmatic doctrines. True religion consists in the experience that “the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” Religion consists not in theologic propositions but in spiritual insight and the sublimity of the soul’s trust.


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So....what is prophesy? In my opinion prophets come in 5 different varieties: first are the insincere frauds or charlatans who seek attention and audience and advantage and power; second are the sincere but false so called prophets who proclaim their personal and subjective and distorted perspective delivered by fear and anger and immaturity and blindness and impatience and related mind poisons, but not by truth or knowledge or understanding - these are often the doom and gloom crowd predicting the end of times apocalypse and/or the retribution and intervention and judgment of an angry god (lots of animal and human sacrifice by this scary and barbaric bunch who are still thriving today).

I think the next 3 types of prophets and prophesy are sincere and are truth based and come by personal spiritual insights and inspiration and personal revelation to then be shared, taught, proclaimed or otherwise made public. In the UB many such mortals are also considered great teachers and leaders in world history. Most are more local and temporal in their message, influence, and effects, to be lost to human history. Others reach wider and larger audiences and live longer in history and have far greater effect, even perhaps planetary in scale eventually....or beyond.

Of this last group of sincere religionists who become public voices for truth, beauty, and goodness there are those who teach universe realities pertaining to the morontial levels and celestials; the origins and destinies of creation; the nature of Deity and humanity's connection to and relationship with the Spirit; the dual nature and existence of mortals in both the material and spiritual realms; and this group takes two forms - the first (#3 of the 5 groups) describe fact and provide knowledge of the unseen realities and the second (#4 of the 5 groups) deals with the more philosophical truths on how to personally live the religious life or the relationship of the religionist and the greater universe realities.

The final (#5) group of prophets and prophesy seem focused on the future! They declare and predict certain future events, cycles, seasons, epochs, and related outcomes based on the evolutionary and karmic trajectories of humanity and the contemporary state of morality, social conscience and priorities, materialism, self indulgence and self importance and pleasure gratification, governance, and the general lack of spirituality. These predictions may be either vague or specific in timing and outcome and are often, but not always, a social criticism and warning and call to redemption (rarely welcome by the social elite and governing classes).

All such prophets and prophesy of all forms in these last 3 groups/categories are less or more accurate, factual, and truthful depending on the level of insight, inspiration, personal revelation, discernment, wisdom, and understading of each person who attempts to communicate such thoughts to others. Some have been incredibly reflective of truth and reality while others only meagerly or fractionally so.

DISCLOSURE: All words posted here that are not direct posted quotes of text are merely my personal opinion and certainly deserving of disagreement, challenge, reconsideration, clarification, amendments, differences of opinion, and even personal revision by their author!!! :wink:

The 24 Counselors include some notable prophets and teachers from our history (and our future too!):

45:4.1 (513.4) At the center of the seven angelic residential circles on Jerusem is located the headquarters of the Urantia advisory council, the four and twenty counselors. John the Revelator called them the four and twenty elders: “And round about the throne were four and twenty seats, and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment.” The throne in the center of this group is the judgment seat of the presiding archangel, the throne of the resurrection roll call of mercy and justice for all Satania. This judgment seat has always been on Jerusem, but the twenty-four surrounding seats were placed in position no more than nineteen hundred years ago, soon after Christ Michael was elevated to the full sovereignty of Nebadon. These four and twenty counselors are his personal agents on Jerusem, and they have authority to represent the Master Son in all matters concerning the roll calls of Satania and in many other phases of the scheme of mortal ascension on the isolated worlds of the system. They are the designated agents for executing the special requests of Gabriel and the unusual mandates of Michael.

45:4.2 (513.5) These twenty-four counselors have been recruited from the eight Urantia races, and the last of this group were assembled at the time of the resurrection roll call of Michael, nineteen hundred years ago. This Urantia advisory council is made up of the following members:

45:4.3 (513.6) 1. Onagar, the master mind of the pre-Planetary Prince age, who directed his fellows in the worship of “The Breath Giver.”

45:4.4 (513.7) 2. Mansant, the great teacher of the post-Planetary Prince age on Urantia, who pointed his fellows to the veneration of “The Great Light.”

45:4.5 (513.8) 3. Onamonalonton, a far-distant leader of the red man and the one who directed this race from the worship of many gods to the veneration of “The Great Spirit.”

45:4.6 (513.9) 4. Orlandof, a prince of the blue men and their leader in the recognition of the divinity of “The Supreme Chief.”

45:4.7 (513.10) 5. Porshunta, the oracle of the extinct orange race and the leader of this people in the worship of “The Great Teacher.”

45:4.8 (513.11) 6. Singlangton, the first of the yellow men to teach and lead his people in the worship of “One Truth” instead of many. Thousands of years ago the yellow man knew of the one God.

45:4.9 (513.12) 7. Fantad, the deliverer of the green men from darkness and their leader in the worship of “The One Source of Life.”

45:4.10 (513.13) 8. Orvonon, the enlightener of the indigo races and their leader in the onetime service of “The God of Gods.”

45:4.11 (514.1) 9. Adam, the discredited but rehabilitated planetary father of Urantia, a Material Son of God who was relegated to the likeness of mortal flesh, but who survived and was subsequently elevated to this position by the decree of Michael.

45:4.12 (514.2) 10. Eve, the mother of the violet race of Urantia, who suffered the penalty of default with her mate and was also rehabilitated with him and assigned to serve with this group of mortal survivors.

45:4.13 (514.3) 11. Enoch, the first of the mortals of Urantia to fuse with the Thought Adjuster during the mortal life in the flesh.

45:4.14 (514.4) 12. Moses, the emancipator of a remnant of the submerged violet race and the instigator of the revival of the worship of the Universal Father under the name of “The God of Israel.”

45:4.15 (514.5) 13. Elijah, a translated soul of brilliant spiritual achievement during the post-Material Son age.

45:4.16 (514.6) 14. Machiventa Melchizedek, the only Son of this order to bestow himself upon the Urantia races. While still numbered as a Melchizedek, he has become “forever a minister of the Most Highs,” eternally assuming the assignment of service as a mortal ascender, having sojourned on Urantia in the likeness of mortal flesh at Salem in the days of Abraham. This Melchizedek has latterly been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia with headquarters on Jerusem and authority to act in behalf of Michael, who is actually the Planetary Prince of the world whereon he experienced his terminal bestowal in human form. Notwithstanding this, Urantia is still supervised by successive resident governors general, members of the four and twenty counselors.

45:4.17 (514.7) 15. John the Baptist, the forerunner of Michael’s mission on Urantia and, in the flesh, distant cousin of the Son of Man.

45:4.18 (514.8) 16. 1-2-3 the First, the leader of the loyal midway creatures in the service of Gabriel at the time of the Caligastia betrayal, elevated to this position by Michael soon after his entrance upon unconditioned sovereignty.

45:4.19 (514.9) These selected personalities are exempt from the ascension regime for the time being, on Gabriel’s request, and we have no idea how long they may serve in this capacity.

45:4.20 (514.10) Seats numbers 17, 18, 19, and 20 are not permanently occupied. They are temporarily filled by the unanimous consent of the sixteen permanent members, being kept open for later assignment to ascending mortals from the present postbestowal Son age on Urantia.

45:4.21 (514.11) Numbers 21, 22, 23, and 24 are likewise temporarily filled while being held in reserve for the great teachers of other and subsequent ages which undoubtedly will follow the present age. Eras of the Magisterial Sons and Teacher Sons and the ages of light and life are to be anticipated on Urantia, regardless of unexpected visitations of divine Sons which may or may not occur.


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