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brooklyn_born wrote:

Recently I was reading the following revelation delivered by Jesus to Nathaniel:

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159:4.8 (1768.4) “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.


I want to hone in on this part:

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Nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible," and "Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity.


Question# 1: Within the above context, what does "touch" mean, and has human nature touched the revelations?

Question# 2: Was the revelation transmitted through the mind of man? If yes, does that then qualify the revelations as relative and partial in terms of purity and divinity?


When Jesus was speaking to Nathaniel about the scriptures, he was referring to writings by humans, which is what the Old Testament is. Simply being "touched" by a human doesn't matter; however, words given meaning by a human does matter. Even if we were so fortunate to have the actual Word of God himself, (which we did have in the form of Jesus, the Word made flesh), the human meanings attached to the Word makes it fallible, or less than perfect. Humans are imperfect, and so too, their thoughts and meanings.

Yes the Revelation passed through the physical brain of the sleeping subject in order to allow speech, but it did not pass through his mind. His mind was unconscious and he had no memory of any of it. The mind, or minds, who created the Revelation were not human. In fact, the mind of the sleeping subject was under the control of a midwayer, who also is not a human.


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the concept of race itself is biologically baseless, and actually, is an artificial construction. According to modern science, biologically, there is no difference within the human race.


that's not correct, the science just says the differences are slight compared to what we have in common across the entire population with 99.9% shared dna and 93% of some 4,000 alleles shared and no homogeneity within geographic groups...that's consistent with being from one ancestral family blended for 500,000 years.

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Current estimates of how much variation occurs species-wide indicates that all H. sapiens are ∼99.6–99.8% identical at the nucleotide sequence level. The other 0.2–0.4% of 3 billion nucleotides comprises ∼10 million DNA variants that can potentially occur in all different combinations. This is vastly more than enough variation to ensure individual uniqueness at the DNA level, but still represents a very small fraction of the total genome.


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Good Morning:
One of the main reasons I believe (mostly) in this book is that the Authors are so honest in admitting that there are many, many things which they do not know.
I have always rejected flatly ANYONE who says that ANY DOCUMENT is the inerrant word of Deity. This includes the UB.
Was the book tinged by the then current human prejudices in order to make it more "appealing"? We may never know.
But it really is not important.
What IS important is that we have in our possession, a document which clearly explains our place in the Universe. The matters of which we are all in dispute are relatively meaningless in the big context of things. Biologic differences, or not, dinosaurs dying out because of stupidity or an asteroid, or not... these are small potatoes in comparison with the story of the Universe, the rendition of the Trinity and the masterful presentation of the Master's life and the real reasons he was here.
So while I am very content to be skeptical, I also try to put things into proper perspective
Al


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Well said Al. Perspective is everything.

(1434.3) 130:4.4 A one-eyed person can never hope to visualize depth of perspective. Neither can single-eyed material scientists nor single-eyed spiritual mystics and allegorists correctly visualize and adequately comprehend the true depths of universe reality. All true values of creature experience are concealed in depth of recognition.


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Very right on. Thinking the same thing myself. Which isn't surprising.


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what part of the human mind of the subject did the revelation pass through?


katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:

Recently I was reading the following revelation delivered by Jesus to Nathaniel:

Quote:
159:4.8 (1768.4) “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.


I want to hone in on this part:

Quote:
Nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible," and "Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity.


Question# 1: Within the above context, what does "touch" mean, and has human nature touched the revelations?

Question# 2: Was the revelation transmitted through the mind of man? If yes, does that then qualify the revelations as relative and partial in terms of purity and divinity?


When Jesus was speaking to Nathaniel about the scriptures, he was referring to writings by humans, which is what the Old Testament is. Simply being "touched" by a human doesn't matter; however, words given meaning by a human does matter. Even if we were so fortunate to have the actual Word of God himself, (which we did have in the form of Jesus, the Word made flesh), the human meanings attached to the Word makes it fallible, or less than perfect. Humans are imperfect, and so too, their thoughts and meanings.

Yes the Revelation passed through the physical brain of the sleeping subject in order to allow speech, but it did not pass through his mind. His mind was unconscious and he had no memory of any of it. The mind, or minds, who created the Revelation were not human. In fact, the mind of the sleeping subject was under the control of a midwayer, who also is not a human.

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My understanding is that the only part of the human subject that was used was his vocal cords. A long-time student of the revelation wrote a paper on the phenomenon, which is where I got that info. I'll try to find it and share it with everyone. Another aspect of the delivery was that the information had to be translated from the tongue of Uversa into English, and this was done via the midwayers.

Maryjo


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Here is that article, by Denver Pearson, called The Revelatory Process:

http://www.urantiabook.org/Default.aspx?PageID=15968616&A

I think I got it wrong about the vocal cords, but you all can read for yourselves, as will I.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
what part of the human mind of the subject did the revelation pass through?


No part that I can imagine. He was unconscious, asleep. His adjutant mind was inactive. The pre-mind of the Thought Adjuster was involved as was the mind of the midwayer who acts as a liaison between the Thought Adjuster and physical matter. Even when the sleeping subject was awake and conscious, he was indifferent, passive and inactive to the self-acting doings of his Thought Adjuster. I assume you know that the mind and the brain are two separate things.

(865.1) 77:8.8 3. Contact personalities. In the contacts made with the mortal beings of the material worlds, such as with the subject through whom these communications were transmitted, the midway creatures are always employed. They are an essential factor in such liaisons of the spiritual and the material levels.

(1208.6) 110:5.7 The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made enjoys such a wide scope of activity chiefly because of this human’s almost complete indifference to any outward manifestations of the Adjuster’s inner presence; it is indeed fortunate that he remains consciously quite unconcerned about the entire procedure. He holds one of the highly experienced Adjusters of his day and generation, and yet his passive reaction to, and inactive concern toward, the phenomena associated with the presence in his mind of this versatile Adjuster is pronounced by the guardian of destiny to be a rare and fortuitous reaction. And all this constitutes a favorable co-ordination of influences, favorable both to the Adjuster in the higher sphere of action and to the human partner from the standpoints of health, efficiency, and tranquillity.


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Mind is not brain...and I heard it was a disembodied voice. Who cares and what's the difference?


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Thanks for sharing that, maryjo606. Admittedly the article has left me even with more questions about the reliability of accurately transmitting epochal revelation from a celestial(s) to a human subject.

maryjo606 wrote:
Here is that article, by Denver Pearson, called The Revelatory Process:

http://www.urantiabook.org/Default.aspx?PageID=15968616&A

I think I got it wrong about the vocal cords, but you all can read for yourselves, as will I.

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But TA resides in mind (actually supermind). And messages that get grouped in supermind surely are filtered by mind then expressed outwardly.

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
what part of the human mind of the subject did the revelation pass through?


No part that I can imagine. He was unconscious, asleep. His adjutant mind was inactive. The pre-mind of the Thought Adjuster was involved as was the mind of the midwayer who acts as a liaison between the Thought Adjuster and physical matter. Even when the sleeping subject was awake and conscious, he was indifferent, passive and inactive to the self-acting doings of his Thought Adjuster. I assume you know that the mind and the brain are two separate things.

(865.1) 77:8.8 3. Contact personalities. In the contacts made with the mortal beings of the material worlds, such as with the subject through whom these communications were transmitted, the midway creatures are always employed. They are an essential factor in such liaisons of the spiritual and the material levels.

(1208.6) 110:5.7 The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made enjoys such a wide scope of activity chiefly because of this human’s almost complete indifference to any outward manifestations of the Adjuster’s inner presence; it is indeed fortunate that he remains consciously quite unconcerned about the entire procedure. He holds one of the highly experienced Adjusters of his day and generation, and yet his passive reaction to, and inactive concern toward, the phenomena associated with the presence in his mind of this versatile Adjuster is pronounced by the guardian of destiny to be a rare and fortuitous reaction. And all this constitutes a favorable co-ordination of influences, favorable both to the Adjuster in the higher sphere of action and to the human partner from the standpoints of health, efficiency, and tranquillity.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:00 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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alwilliams767, the race papers are a major obstacle in getting nonwhite races to embrace the revelations. If you notice, the predominant race of readers of UB is white. I've been a reader of TUB since the early 1990s, and personally know Black people who have rejected TUB because they interpreted it as a white supremacist revelation.


alwilliams767 wrote:
Good Morning:
One of the main reasons I believe (mostly) in this book is that the Authors are so honest in admitting that there are many, many things which they do not know.
I have always rejected flatly ANYONE who says that ANY DOCUMENT is the inerrant word of Deity. This includes the UB.
Was the book tinged by the then current human prejudices in order to make it more "appealing"? We may never know.
But it really is not important.
What IS important is that we have in our possession, a document which clearly explains our place in the Universe. The matters of which we are all in dispute are relatively meaningless in the big context of things. Biologic differences, or not, dinosaurs dying out because of stupidity or an asteroid, or not... these are small potatoes in comparison with the story of the Universe, the rendition of the Trinity and the masterful presentation of the Master's life and the real reasons he was here.
So while I am very content to be skeptical, I also try to put things into proper perspective
Al

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brooklyn_born wrote:
But TA resides in mind (actually supermind). And messages that get grouped in supermind surely are filtered by mind then expressed outwardly.


The supermind is the soul and not the conscious mind of the sleeping subject. It's a word for supermaterial mind. Most people are not fully conscious of their souls. Even if the sleeping subject did had soul consciousness, which I'm guessing he probably did, he would have to be awake and conscious to experience it and have any personality control over it. Either way, the soul cannot perform on the material level, only on the morontia level.

(1216.6) 111:1.5 Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious.

(1219.1) 111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level. Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.


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How do you think the sleeping subject was able to utter the revelation? Does the soul have the ability to initiate, directly, speech?



katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
But TA resides in mind (actually supermind). And messages that get grouped in supermind surely are filtered by mind then expressed outwardly.


The supermind is the soul and not the conscious mind of the sleeping subject. It's a word for supermaterial mind. Most people are not fully conscious of their souls. Even if the sleeping subject did had soul consciousness, which I'm guessing he probably did, he would have to be awake and conscious to experience it and have any personality control over it. Either way, the soul cannot perform on the material level, only on the morontia level.

(1216.6) 111:1.5 Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious.

(1219.1) 111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level. Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.

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