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Bart wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
... But even looking at that quote, they are saying that our sex life is going to be corrected by the material son's, and material son's know how to party lol. I just gota find the quote where they actually say we are going to have sex with them lol.
Is this the quote you’re looking for Boomshuka? :)
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45.6.3 On the seven mansion worlds ascending mortals are afforded ample opportunities for compensating any and all experiential deprivations suffered on their worlds of origin, whether due to inheritance, environment, or unfortunate premature termination of the career in the flesh. This is in every sense true except in the mortal sex life and its attendant adjustments. Thousands of mortals reach the mansion worlds without having benefited particularly from the disciplines derived from fairly average sex relations on their native spheres. The mansion world experience can provide little opportunity for compensating these very personal deprivations. sex experience in a physical sense is past for these ascenders, but in close association with the Material Sons and Daughters, both individually and as members of their families, these sex-deficient mortals are enabled to compensate the social, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual aspects of their deficiency. Thus are all those humans whom circumstances or bad judgment deprived of the benefits of advantageous sex association on the evolutionary worlds, here on the system capitals afforded full opportunity to acquire these essential mortal experiences in close and loving association with the supernal Adamic sex creatures of permanent residence on the system capitals.


And just to be sure (and as already quoted by Jo); TUB explicitely states that "effective parents can be two persons of the same sex":
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160:2.4 Symbolic communication between human beings predetermines the bringing into existence of social groups. The most effective of all social groups is the family, more particularly the two parents. Personal affection is the spiritual bond which holds together these material associations. Such an effective relationship is also possible between two persons of the same sex, as is so abundantly illustrated in the devotions of genuine friendships.


Bart, you interpretation of the last paragraph seems to be a bit off:

Two fundamental spirit bond relationships are mentioned: The affection between mixed sexes, groupings, (Family relationship between a husband and a wife is given as an example ) and the affection between genuine friends of the same sex (I have female friend as well as male friend, but I do not have any sex with them because we are all sons of God. Ha Ha Ha). It should also be high lighted that "Personal affection is the spiritual bond which holds together these material associations."

It is my personal opinion that the genuine friendship developed between opposite sexes without sex is the best relationship as far as serving the Kingdom is concerned. It is like a pair of Seraphim serving together (One active, and another passive)

Sex getting into our ways here on the planet. In the mansion worlds, no more sexual urges, more genuine spirit based friendships can mature amongst males and females.

It is very sad, genuine personal affection at mindal and spiritual level is not satisfying enough for many, they insist on getting into the same bad is the the best thing for them to seal the affections. And the UB clearly mentions that such physical activity is no more for us after we leave the planet. Why do not way start now to cultivate more on higher levels of personal affections?


Last edited by TonyMa on Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:28 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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{ Admin: The above is an example of bad question. Tony Ma's opinion about homosexuality is no more relevant to this forum than is Tony Ma's opinion about Ford automobiles. The correct way to ask this question is:
"So Tony Ma, what do you think The Urantia Book says about homosexuality? Does The Urantia Book say that it a sin or not?" }
mic

The Urantia Papers have taught us to make personal decisions on truth revealed, and the Admin seems to insist us to study these papers as some kind of scriptures that we should not stray from logic and reason.

So according to my analysis of these papers with association of thoughts and extrapolation of ideas, Homosexuality is a sin against Deity.

I do not think Jesus taught anything regarding the sexual conduct of mortals. It seems sexual conduct as well as many other physical activities of a person will rapidly align with Deity Ideals if he consecrates his will to do the Father's Will.

Many people are too over anxious about this is sin and that is sin, and neglect of the fundamental of dedicating their will to do the Father's Will.

Decisions, more decisions and more decision. That is what we are learning to make decisions based upon information, experience and spirit leading.


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143:2.1 At one of the evening conferences, Andrew asked Jesus: "Master, are we to practice self-denial as John taught us, or are we to strive for the self-control of your teaching? Wherein does your teaching differ from that of John?" Jesus answered: "John indeed taught you the way of righteousness in accordance with the light and laws of his fathers, and that was the religion of self-examination and self-denial. But I come with a new message of self-forgetfulness and self-control. I show to you the way of life as revealed to me by my Father in heaven.

"Verily, verily, I say to you, he who rules his own self is greater than he who captures a city. Self-mastery is the measure of man's moral nature and the indicator of his spiritual development. In the old order you fasted and prayed; as the new creature of the rebirth of the spirit, you are taught to believe and rejoice. In the Father's kingdom you are to become new creatures; old things are to pass away; behold I show you how all things are to become new. And by your love for one another you are to convince the world that you have passed from bondage to liberty, from death into life everlasting.

"By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living
; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not--it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit's transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial.

"Many times, when you have done evil, you have thought to charge up your acts to the influence of the evil one when in reality you have but been led astray by your own natural tendencies. Did not the Prophet Jeremiah long ago tell you that the human heart is deceitful above all things and sometimes even desperately wicked? How easy for you to become self-deceived and thereby fall into foolish fears, divers lusts, enslaving pleasures, malice, envy, and even vengeful hatred!

"Salvation is by the regeneration of the spirit and not by the self-righteous deeds of the flesh. You are justified by faith and fellowshipped by grace, not by fear and the self-denial of the flesh, albeit the Father's children who have been born of the spirit are ever and always masters of the self and all that pertains to the desires of the flesh. When you know that you are saved by faith, you have real peace with God. And all who follow in the way of this heavenly peace are destined to be sanctified to the eternal service of the ever-advancing sons of the eternal God. Henceforth, it is not a duty but rather your exalted privilege to cleanse yourselves from all evils of mind and body while you seek for perfection in the love of God.

"Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear. Your joy is born of trust in the divine word, and you shall not therefore be led to doubt the reality of the Father's love and mercy. It is the very goodness of God that leads men into true and genuine repentance. Your secret of the mastery of self is bound up with your faith in the indwelling spirit, which ever works by love. Even this saving faith you have not of yourselves; it also is the gift of God. And if you are the children of this living faith, you are no longer the bondslaves of self but rather the triumphant masters of yourselves, the liberated sons of God.

"If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment--true self-mastery."


This raises us to wondrous new heights of possibilities. Jesus does not cause us to cower in fear of a "sin"...does not even mention the word. We can attempt to control others by using fear (we see this used heavily and we also see the damaging results) but we, as God-knowing individuals, have no excuse for applying this manipulation towards another human being. If the God of all creation refuses to use fear (sin) as a means to "control" then our puny efforts to do this is an embarrassment.

I have not been able to locate the part in the UB that specifically addresses the futility of supressing what we think is correct only because we fear doing wrong.

Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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Lol whoa didn't wanna spark some heat lol but I guess its a controversial subject matter!


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Nicki Jane wrote:
Lol whoa didn't wanna spark some heat lol but I guess its a controversial subject matter!


Well one thing I realized is that the Urantia book is sooo long and sooo complex that no 2 reader's interpret it the same hahaha.

It's pretty interesting though, I guess it could be worse and we could all be alike and then everything would be boring hahaha :).

I enjoy listening to everyone's differing opinion's, and even if they disagree with me it's okay.

Some of this debate though is just a carry over of other topics to hahahah.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
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I agree... disagreement is ok with me lol! I love hearing peoples thoughts


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If one of you fellow brethren does something wrong, and you have the chance to teach him what is right. What are you going to do? So it is decision times again.

Tolerance of sins is a sin itself. So actually knowing what are sins and iniquities is important for a person dedicating to do the Father's Will. Again it is a another decision time on actually knowing, not just believing.

Quote:
P.1766 - §5 In preaching the gospel of the kingdom, you are simply teaching friendship with God. And this fellowship will appeal alike to men and women in that both will find that which most truly satisfies their characteristic longings and ideals. Tell my children that I am not only tender of their feelings and patient with their frailties, but that I am also ruthless with sin and intolerant of iniquity. I am indeed meek and humble in the presence of my Father, but I am equally and relentlessly inexorable where there is deliberate evildoing and sinful rebellion against the will of my Father in heave


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TonyMa wrote:
If one of you fellow brethren does something wrong, and you have the chance to teach him what is right. What are you going to do? So it is decision times again.

Tolerance of sins is a sin itself. So actually knowing what are sins and iniquities is important for a person dedicating to do the Father's Will. Again it is a another decision time on actually knowing, not just believing.

Quote:
P.1766 - §5 In preaching the gospel of the kingdom, you are simply teaching friendship with God. And this fellowship will appeal alike to men and women in that both will find that which most truly satisfies their characteristic longings and ideals. Tell my children that I am not only tender of their feelings and patient with their frailties, but that I am also ruthless with sin and intolerant of iniquity. I am indeed meek and humble in the presence of my Father, but I am equally and relentlessly inexorable where there is deliberate evildoing and sinful rebellion against the will of my Father in heave



True but we should love the sinner, and make sure we are in the kingdom first before we begin to go around telling other's what is wrong with them.

"therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye."

‘If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.

Again though I haven't really noticed any sinning in this forum......

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Telling people what are sins against Deity does not equate hating sinners. When you teach a child lying is wrong, it does not make him hate liars. It always interesting that people are so protective of their private sex lives, not knowing the fact that God lives within them, and suffers the consequence of any sinful sexual action. I would tell a sinner to stop for God's sake.

Incidentally, if a person is in the Kingdom due to born of the spirit, he will rapidly align his behaviors according to sinless living. One does not have to tell him anything.

Only one who truly loves will take the burden of being rejected to tell a friend that some of his actions are wrong. It is not a popularity contest for sure.


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Again though I haven't really noticed any sinning in this forum......


The Judgment on what is a sin is inherited in the Laws of Deity. It is not up to any individual to decide. Judges are only making decisions on how much mercy should be extended.

Quote:
P.617 - §3 2. Supreme justice is dominated by a Father's love; therefore will justice never destroy that which mercy can save.


Quote:
That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.


If a sinner disregards what he has been told repeatedly, and continues whatever he is doing until mercy runs out, he will be no more.

When a person heading towards a cliff without knowing is told that he is walking towards self-destruction, he does not heed and believes others are lying to him. After this is repeated many times, sooner or later he will walk off the cliff and kill himself.

Sometimes the mercy we received clouds our sane judgment of the real situation.

Quote:
P.314 - §4 2. The Memory of Mercy. These are the actual, full and replete, living records of the mercy which has been extended to individuals and races by the tender ministrations of the instrumentalities of the Infinite Spirit in the mission of adapting the justice of righteousness to the status of the realms, as disclosed by the portrayals of the Significance of Origins. The Memory of Mercy discloses the moral debt of the children of mercy--their spiritual liabilities--to be set down against their assets of the saving provision established by the Sons of God. In revealing the Father's pre-existent mercy, the Sons of God establish the necessary credit to insure the survival of all. And then, in accordance with the findings of the Significance of Origins, a mercy credit is established for the survival of each rational creature, a credit of lavish proportions and one of sufficient grace to insure the survival of every soul who really desires divine citizenship.


The mercy credits become operational when a person wholeheartedly believes the gospel of the Kingdom.


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My take on what I read was that sexual encounters as long as they are based on love and not hurting others are ok... besisdes I think sex in and of itself mean nothing to god unless a baby is made during those relations. I am guessing its not much of a blip on the radar otherwise because as it has been pointed out growing and evolving into a perfected soul is what matters. I don't think sex makes anyone grow spiritually... but loving that person be it man or woman does.. sticking with someone through thick and thin (especially today considering the divorce rate) is what really matters.


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Nicki Jane wrote:
My take on what I read was that sexual encounters as long as they are based on love and not hurting others are ok... besisdes I think sex in and of itself mean nothing to god unless a baby is made during those relations. I am guessing its not much of a blip on the radar otherwise because as it has been pointed out growing and evolving into a perfected soul is what matters. I don't think sex makes anyone grow spiritually... but loving that person be it man or woman does.. sticking with someone through thick and thin (especially today considering the divorce rate) is what really matters.


I value what I believe, Worship and Courage. I value what I think, Worship and Understanding. I value what I guess, Worship and Intuition.

I value what I think not, Worship and Understanding. I value Loyalty in love between a man and a woman no matter what, Worship and Wisdom.

Nicki Jane, you are doing great at least from technical analysis point of view. You have reached the Adjutant of Wisdom in your expression of Loyalty. No comprehension of loyalty can be reached unless some great personal decision is made.

God bless you


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My take on what I read was that sexual encounters as long as they are based on love and not hurting others are ok... Besisdes I think sex in and of itself mean nothing to god unless a baby is made during those relations. I am guessing its not much of a blip on the radar otherwise because as it has been pointed out growing and evolving into a perfected soul is what matters. I don't think sex makes anyone grow spiritually... But loving that person be it man or woman does.. Sticking with someone through thick and thin (especially today considering the divorce rate) is what really matters.

I believe your perception on what is of value, Nicki, is on target. You live out your values and everything else falls into place. Anything less is disloyalty to yourself, your spirit and your God. We humans are the ones that want to make a lot of noise about what someone else should do, or think, or believe in spite of the reality that very few who talk the talk can walk the walk. God doesn't care what you are doing...God cares about who you are and what you are becoming. All the rest of it is bells and whistles...sounds great sometimes but not really necessary.

Peace on your journey :biggrin:
Jo

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Homosexuality is a common accurance on most planets, it has no barrings on God's love for any evolving being,... The effect where it may be of concern would be the loss of those genetic materials that is an uplifting in spiritual sensitivity,... many person that have strong spiritual leanings would no longer be adding to the gene pool as a result of sexual preferences.

It is a sad fact the many Monks that were genetically gifted in spiritual leading's chose celibacy to show there commitment to God. we are in need of those genetic gift in our world to day.


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Hi Nikki Jane, I'm John. I've been a reader for 30 years and am pleased to have an opportunity to respond to your dillema. I am straight. I was born in 1950 so you can imagine the homophobia I grew up with. Having said that, I decided if I was to believe we are all children of God, how could he not love children he created with no choice in the matter.
In marriage and family life it is true that the ideal is the family unit as described yet history shows that there have always been gays in all societies. So clearly there must be other options. I believe the lack of discussion in the Ubook about homosexuallity has more to do with the society is was published into than God's attitude reguarding gays. It does say that man is bisexual by nature. Something tells me that the authors deemed it better that we work that one out for ourselves. Given the short years of my sojourn I think we're not doing so badley in accepting gays in our society. I love and respect my gay friends and look forward to Knowing them on the mansion worlds and beyound.
The philosophy of the Urantia Book seems to indicate who you love is not important; that you love is. I have also found that children raised by gay parents are often times more lovingly fostered than those in traditional families. At this juncture in society the opportunity is more appreciated.
Please feel free to chat anytime. Only the willfully ignorant could see sin in your nature. Enjoy the journey, John.


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