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A forum for issues regarding family life and child rearing.
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going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:56 pm +0000

Ok soooo id like some imput and hopefully I will receive friendly imput (please :biggrin:) After reading the marriage and family life of the urantia book I was quite surprised that it did not mention homosexuality at all except to say that ideal conditions for child rearing is a man and a woman co parenting together. Now I am wondering.... does that mean homosexuality is a non issue as far as being a sin... or is it such a sin that it isn't even included in the book as a possible way to live your life?? Does that mean gay people should not reproduce? As far as myself goes I feel as though I was born this way and sometimes I struggle with worrying I am wrong like the bible thumpers say... but then I go back to the fact that I can't change who and what I am and why is it wrong to love another human being even if it is the same sex....how do I reconsile these feelings?

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:40 pm +0000

Id also like to clarify when I speak of homosexuals reproducing I am speaking only in the context of people in sound and commited relationships (if say married but that isn't possible since its against the law)

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:21 pm +0000

Welcome, Nicki Jane. To your question about homosexuality not being mentioned as a sin, I'd have to say that the closest thing that I've found being labeled as a "sin" in the UB is pride. Actually, I don't believe the UB uses that word, or uses it with the same connotations that the bible suggests (or that are added by us mortals). The revelators seem to be more interested in our spiritual maturation, our ongoing striving toward God awareness and our abilities to learn to co-exist in harmony instead of constantly being at each others' throats.

This probably didn't answer you question but I trust that some more learned students will respond in depth.

Welcome aboard!
And Peace

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:43 pm +0000

Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus because of their fears of what it will do to them--and with them.

P.1226 - §3 13. Personality may survive mortal death with identity in the surviving soul. The Adjuster and the personality are changeless; the relationship between them (in the soul) is nothing but change, continuing evolution; and if this change (growth) ceased, the soul would cease.

So growing in the Kingdom is a spiritual transformation, one can not stand still, not change oneself.

P.1736 - §3 The theme of Jesus' instructions during the sojourn at Sidon was spiritual progression. He told them they could not stand still; they must go forward in righteousness or retrogress into evil and sin. He admonished them to "forget those things which are in the past while you push forward to embrace the greater realities of the kingdom." He besought them not to be content with their childhood in the gospel but to strive for the attainment of the full stature of divine sonship in the communion of the spirit and in the fellowship of believers.

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:05 pm +0000

Maybe who your attracted to is unimportant since you do not carry on sexual relationships in the mansion worlds. Tony I like what you said because it makes me think of what IS important and thats growing.

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:00 pm +0000

Nicki Jane wrote:Maybe who your attracted to is unimportant since you do not carry on sexual relationships in the mansion worlds. Tony I like what you said because it makes me think of what IS important and thats growing.

I think that the Urantia book hint's about how we are not the extreme version of "male" and "female" as where Adam and Eve. Adam and eve where both very much "male" and very much "female". The book does say though that everyone has to have the experience of having children (their own biological children), and that if it does not happen in this life it will happen in the next world. Also that everyone has to have sex eventually and if they dont in this life they will in the next, hahaha and I am assuming they mean male and female sex, I forget where these 2 points are but I remember them clearly because they startled me alot.

As far as children go the Urantia Book states that children are mindally dependont on their biological parents untill the age 16. They even go far as to say that if both parents are iniquitous in this life and fail to survive death and the child die's at a young age, the child will fail to survive death as well because of how dependant it is on it's parents. Of coarse the chance of all that happening in one family is pretty rear, but it gives me in idea of how sacred the relationship between parent and child is.

Perhaps in the next life you get you will be attracted to the opposite sex. I know that is a strange thing to say and I may sound judgmental but the comments in the Urantia Book about how everyone has to have their own child at some point and how everyone has to have sexual intercouse at some point makes me beleive that ultimitely you will be attracted to the opposite sex in the next life and that eventually you will enjoy sex with a male, I dont want to sound like a bigot or anything though really I am just taking those 2 parts from Urantia book and doing my best to interpret it to your situation, I have no bias or think there is anything wrong with being attracted to the same sex.

In the end it doesn't really matter, we are all "sons" :).

That said though there are alot of orphan's in the world who need someone to look after them desperately.
Last edited by boomshuka on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:12 pm +0000, edited 7 times in total.

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:00 pm +0000


Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:16 pm +0000

It's speculation on my part but my opinion is that homosexuality is more a cultural issue than a spiritual one. In some cultures homosexuality means death while in others it's not an issue; and as God is no respecter of persons, nor would it be an issue with God. That may be why homosexuality is not discussed in TUB.

The issue of child rearing however is covered fully in TUB. The family, consisting of a socially recognized married couple, one man and one woman, form the building block of culture. Two men or two women living together are just that; they're not the nuclear family described in TUB. To become a well-adjusted adult a child requires a proper environment as well as love, security, nurturing. However loving and nurturing two men or two women may be the environment they provide is lacking either female or the male influence, both of which are requirements for a healthy environment for a developing human being. Children, being adaptable, may still grow up in such an environment and become well-adjusted adults, but that would be in spite of the environment and not because of it. I believe it's selfishness, not altruism, that prompts homosexuals to adopt. But, is it better for a child to be reared in a loving homosexual household than it is to not be adopted? I don't know.


Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:48 pm +0000

God loves ALL of his children - homosexuality is not a sin it is a human condition.

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:34 pm +0000

Dear Nicki Jane,

Thanks so much for writing about this subject. I know it has to be difficult to go out on that limb, and I know that people who are oriented that way have a hard row to hoe. I know that to declare oneself as homosexual is a brave thing to do, even in our more permissive society...even a generation ago it was nearly impossible, and in some societies it can still mean severe consequences.

The Urantia Book talks about the possibilities of great friendship between people of the same sex, but it does not address the issue of sex between these same two people. And I think the simple reason is that this union cannot produce children. As Larry points out - any child brought into such a union will still be missing one or the other sex parent. This is not to say that the child will not be loved, or that they might not live a happy and well-adjusted life - only that they will miss the ideal of a two-sex-parent family experience. It will always be one-sided - missing the complementary nature of the man/woman dynamic. But just being loved and nurtured may outweigh having that ideal...Many children are reared in single-parent households, and they do just fine if they feel loved, and maybe it is the same with gay parents...

As for sinfulness - like jak says, I don't think that TUB even identifies any specific behaviors as sin. I sure can't make that determination about you, nor would I ever even try. But I can say that it is never wrong to truly love another person.

We can have problems though when it comes to separating, or reconciling, love and sex...can they BE separated? This is where the confusion can set in...especially in our sex-saturated society. Does love have to lead to sex? Does sex mean love? I am just asking the questions...I don't claim to have all the answers. Some will say it it is black or white, but I think it is all very subjective because it all goes to a person's motivations and the inner workings of the heart, the mind, the spirit, and the body...

God understands your heart - probably even better than you do. So, just stay close to him and ask for spiritual strength. If you are comfortable with the way you are then you are way ahead of many in this world...

I would not worry too much...as St Augustine said - "Love, and do what you will." Just as long as it is real love. And that goes for any person - homosexual or heterosexual...it is love that matters. We can probably live without sex, but I would never want to live without love...

Re: going out on a limb here

Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:25 pm +0000

Urantia points out that children share the same mind with their parent's, so it is literlaly impossible to be another child's parent. That this is a biological bond, that Urantia say's everyone eventually has to experience biological parenthood at some point in this life or the next.

Also the Urantia book does say we all HAVE TO HAVE sex and alot of it at some point and that if we don't in this life we have to on the mansion worlds, and im almost certain they are talking about the 1930's definition of sex between a male and a female.

I still think though that there are orphan's who do need someone to look after them especially from 3rd world country's. I mean there must be thousand's of orphan's in 3rd world country's who's parents have died and they just need someone to help them out. I definitely think that homosexual's should be allowed to take care of these poor kids. Heck if I could I would adopt one of these kids.

Re: going out on a limb here

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:05 am +0000

I think homosexuality is not a sin but it is not good and also good in some ways. It is not good because it is unnatural. It is contra-progressive comparable to the practice of celibacy. It is against natural evolution. People, like animals are supposed to reproduce. Homosexual relationships are not able to reproduce. But it has also some benefits like, if a homosexual couple has the urge for parental experience, it is most likely they want to adopt. And there are a lot of unfortunate and adoptable children in the world. They can help rear children where biologic parents are unfortunate to be able to and that can help balance opportunity in the world. So I think it is not a sin… and one more thing, they are already one step ahead towards becoming non-sexual compared to bisexuals...lol.

Re: going out on a limb here

Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:51 am +0000

Did anyone of you sincerely prayed to the Father regarding this issue? If you did not, all of your opinions which are of similar substance have no value in the Kingdom. If you truly wish to express something worth awhile, seek Father's approval first.

Decisions, more decisions and more decisions.

P.984 - §5 Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

There are two ways to interpret this paragraph: One is taking the first sentence and run it with human intellect. Another is to proceed to understand partial loyalty, divided loyalty, dying loyalty, and the death of loyalty are all sins against Deity.

Here are the choices, which one is of higher value? You can pray about this. The answer will be crystal clear.

Re: going out on a limb here

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:21 am +0000

So Tonyma, what is your belief about homosexuality? Is it a sin or not?

{ Admin: The above is an example of bad question. Tony Ma's opinion about homosexuality is no more relevant to this forum than is Tony Ma's opinion about Ford automobiles. The correct way to ask this question is:
"So Tony Ma, what do you think The Urantia Book says about homosexuality? Does The Urantia Book say that it a sin or not?" }

Re: going out on a limb here

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:03 am +0000

We will not have the physical body on the morontia level so therefore procreation will not be possible. But I do see where we will each need to experience the circumstances of being a parent:
47:1.4 On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters' world.

47:1.5 But irrespective of parental experience, mansion world parents who have growing children in the probation nursery are given every opportunity to collaborate with the morontia custodians of such children regarding their instruction and training. These parents are permitted to journey there for visits as often as four times a year. And it is one of the most touchingly beautiful scenes of all the ascending career to observe the mansion world parents embrace their material offspring on the occasions of their periodic pilgrimages to the finaliter world. While one or both parents may leave a mansion world ahead of the child, they are quite often contemporary for a season.

47:1.6 No ascending mortal can escape the experience of rearing children—their own or others—either on the material worlds or subsequently on the finaliter world or on Jerusem. Fathers must pass through this essential experience just as certainly as mothers. It is an unfortunate and mistaken notion of modern peoples on Urantia that child culture is largely the task of mothers. Children need fathers as well as mothers, and fathers need this parental experience as much as do mothers.

Parenting is evidently as important for the adult as it is for the child. There are core lessons to be gained by the experiences that develop out of that relationship and as with everything on this planet...it is about the experiences we have and the values we learn from them.

As far as missing out on the physical act of sex is concerned, that is also addressed but haven't found it yet. Just as being a parent has little to do with the physical act of giving birth, the experiences of being intimate with another has little to do with the sexual act. As mentioned by Maryjo, it has more to do with all the issues of love, trust and intimacy (to name just a few) that develop within the people involved.

Sorry boomshuka...no physical bodies mean no physical sex act or birth. :wink:

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