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re: something worthwhile

My thanks to the Site Admin for sharing this video. As has been suggested on another thread, I have taken the liberty of posting it here on the Marriage and Family Life Forum as well.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video?viewk ... 003b47d7d5

I think this video has great potential to speak truth, meaning, and value to the generations growing up in today's world. A world in which it has become all too easy to make choices which lead to hopelessness, despair, and self-destruction. Parents require no license to want the best for their children as our Heavenly Parent wants the best for us.

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Every few weeks i come in contact with another child that is struggling to make it in this world with the meger tools their parent/parents have given them, mostly nothing more than the over whelming need to survive.

these children are so attatched to their emotional responces to every thing that they do not have a chance in our society to make a fair go at a good life.

the so call social systems I have had to turn to at time have let me and the children i have turn them to down in so many ways.

the real burned is on the parent (s). and no one is guiding them to be parent.

untill this issue is adressed we as a society will continue to suffer the many ills of the wounded souls of our next generation.


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Dear JBarry,

I don't have the experience in social services like you seem to have, but I am interested in what you say, and of course, I think instantly of the schools for parenting that are (I think) mandatory in "Government on a Neighboring Planet.

Bad parenting is such a vicious cycle - from one generation to the next, and it is the rare family, or parent, who manages to buck that trend and who is able to parent a child in a better way.

And so we go on - and our society and our civilization suffers.

I wish I had more answers, but right now there are many more questions and concerns than answers. Like, why are there NOT parenting schools in our country and in our world? What might be the drawbacks to such a system, and how could it be initiated?

I have long been a proponent for the establishment of a cabinet-level US Department of Peace. Under the Dept of Peace, such issues WOULD be addressed, as they connect directly to other domestic societal issues, such as child abuse, spousal abuse, gang violence, and other similar issues that impact peoples' live every day.

http://www.thepeacealliance.org/

There are plenty of UB references that would support this legislation, which is non-partisan, and governmental evolution, rather than political posturing.

Just throwing the issue out there for discussion...


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It's easy to look around in our society and see examples of bad parenting in other people. But it is another matter entirely to look in the mirror and say "I'm a bad parent."

paper 72 pg 811: The home life of this people has greatly improved during the last century. Attendance of parents, both fathers and mothers, at the parental schools of child culture is compulsory. Even the agriculturists who reside in small country settlements carry on this work by correspondence, going to the near-by centers for oral instruction once in ten days--every two weeks, for they maintain a five-day week.

same paper and page: Marriage and divorce laws are uniform throughout the nation. Marriage before twenty--the age of civil enfranchisement--is not permitted. Permission to marry is only granted after one year's notice of intention, and after both bride and groom present certificates showing that they have been duly instructed in the parental schools regarding the responsibilities of married life.

It may be that society could be improved by such draconian methods, but would you or your family be willing to personally bear the cost of this improvement? For those members of this forum who have children who are now young adults of this age group, let me ask some difficult questions for discussion: What do you suppose your twenty year old would do if they were forced to comply with a parental licensing law before they could be legally married? What if your daughter became pregnant or your son impregnated someone before age twenty or without proper certification of being duly instructed in these parenting schools---what punitive measures would be appropriate for these criminals if they were your children? What of the children of these criminals, your grandkids? And you, as the parent of such a criminal, how would you deal with the fact of your son or daughter's disgrace or your own at having raised a criminal? What of those of you who are already married, how would you feel if you were forced to attend parenting schools in compliance with a parental licensing law whether you already have kids or not? And for those twenty year olds who did attend the parenting schools and failed to obtain proper certification for whatever reason, what preventative measures would be appropriate to ensure that your son or daughter does not have children in an attempt to correct this bad parenting problem our society has? Or what if you or your spouse failed to obtain proper certification?

If these questions seem harsh, it's probably because they are. It is one thing to consider the ideals presented in paper 72 about the purported Government on a Neighboring Planet relevant to parental licensing, but another thing entirely to realize those ideals here on this planet especially if they were to affect you or your family personally. I may be jumping to conclusions, but I believe many people would resent being forced to attend any kind of parenting school, because this would somehow imply their parenting skills are meager, lacking, or otherwise dysfunctional.

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I Have attempted to understand why you have been so threatend by My and Dr Fosters proposels and can not see it.

Not knowing you, I can only come to the conclusion that there is some personal trigger here for you. if you feel safe enough to share a little I may be able to dialogue more on this matter.


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Jim,

About three years ago you stated you were interested in the issue of parental licensing because of your not so pleasant upbringing. Did you come from a dysfunctional family? Do you believe the state should have stepped-in during your childhood to correct your not so pleasant upbringing? If your parents could not have passed a parental licensing test given by the state, should you or your siblings (if any) have been given up for adoption?

More recently you state that "Washington is not a place of experts." You also state that social systems are letting children down and that parents have no one to guide them. If a [hypothetical] Parental Licensing Act were passed by Congress, then these non-experts in Washington would have the power to compel citizens to comply with their parenting standards. What makes you think the government could do any better in guiding parents than it has done with other social systems?

Within the U.S. Constitution is the Bill of Rights. Within the Bill of Rights is Amendment IX which states:

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The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


One of these inherent rights of the people is the right to procreate. A hypothetical Parental Licensing Act of Congress would change this right to procreate into a privilege granted by the state. You don't see anything wrong with this? I most assuredly do.

My parents were far from perfect and my childhood was not so pleasant at times. Doesn't mean I think the state should have stepped in however. I agree with Arie who stated "I wouldn't want my government dictating who should and shouldn't have children and raise a family." I believe government is too big and does too much dictating already. Furthermore, I wouldn't want some non-profit organization dictating these things either. Where would such a non-profit organization obtain its license to dictate these things for example? I have no problem with setting up a system for parents to get help improving their parenting skills on a voluntary basis. What I do have a problem with is our government taking away our constitutional rights, replacing them with state dictated privileges, then forcing us to submit to their unconstitutional Gestapo-like authority. I also have a problem in using belief in the Urantia Book to justify giving government this unconstitutional authority.

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:04 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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First the U.B. has nothing to do with this.

Second I was adopted and there was no checks and balances in place to protect me.

Third I agree our government is screwed up, and there is a measure of fallibility to the possible program that would add future parents.

But the over whelming cruelty that children are suffering today because there is no checks and balances is to loud a living situation to ignore and if in any way future parent can get some if any education about what lies before them than I am all for it, trust me I have seen many parent that I truly thing should have been neutered so they would have never been parents.

I live this problem in my work, it was not my personal family that inspired me to have the conversation that I had with Mr. Foster, it was the evidence and experience of facts in the world to day that inspired the heart felt need for some thing to change.

If your fear of the government is in the way of doing what is needed.
than come up with some thing your self if you don't like what i have to offer, trust me I thought long and hard on the issue and having a pregnant woman take some classes during her term was not an attempt to take away, but an effort to give a child a fair start at a life.

And just think about it, if a parent can't pass some basic parenting skill classes, do you really want that parent to raise a child?


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You don't need a license to understand that the power of authority isn't based on Truth, but rather, Truth is the Authority. And when the Power of Love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

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That response is hollow and says nothing to the discussion.

The issue exists and is in need of action today...actually it was in need of action years ago.


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Jim,

I fully agree that a problem exists, but I do not agree that a parental licensing law is the answer. The problem exists because our world has long been ruled by the love of power. Enabling the state to dictate who may or may not become a parent serves the love of power. There is no political solution to our troubled evolution; We are spirits in the material world. Souls and/or spirits evolve, not by how much they serve the love of power, but by how much they serve the Power of Love. Truth is the authority, but authority isn't always the truth. The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves.

You seem to be asking for a proper course of action. OK fine. Here's my suggestion; take it for whatever you think it's worth.

What about the power of prayer Jim? In addition to your normal everyday duties, you could pray for the healing of the people under your care. Should you decide to pray for the child or adult under your care, it would of course, be best to ask for their permission first. Do this, not in judgment of those you serve or for your own personal gain and self-aggrandizement, but to empower the individual under your care in order to effect the social changes so clearly necessary to our individual and global evolution.

The right to bear children is a gift from Our True Father. It is wrong to exchange this (or any other) God-given right for a privilege granted by the state. By asking The Father "if it be His Will" to send healing energy to those people you clearly care so much about you will demonstrate the proper use of power. While asking for the Father's Help in this matter, visualize in your mind's eye as fully as you can, the person under your care as being fully restored to mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health. By doing both of these things together, you clearly state your intention in this matter.

This will accomplish many things on both the objective and subjective levels of reality.

1) you will render a service to those you care so much about by doing something for them which they may not be able to do for themselves.

2) you will demonstrate mercy by empowering the individual to change their own behavior.

3) because of your unpleasant upbringing, you will demonstrate compassion because you know what it's like to be in their shoes.

4) you will demonstrate forgiveness because none of us are perfect.

5) you will demonstrate the Golden Rule and promote respect because you treat others in the manner in which we all want to be treated.

6) you will help the Power of Love overcome the love of power while promoting the joy and peace which is our true birthright.

7) by doing this for others, you will promote your own growth and healing as well.

There are probably more reasons but that's all I can think of at present. If I have given you something to consider, then my (and hopefully The Father's) intent has been accomplished.

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:57 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Interesting.

You see this as a power issue. Now i begin to understand why you are so resistant.

Do you see every thing through the linz of conspiracy?
Are you one of those persons that hold a inner fight against the power hungry persons of the world that seem to have a hold on our economy to such a degree that you can not see any thing else of human effort to make fair and political change in our world through the systems we have at this point and time.

Trust me I and a world of people have and still do pray for the help, change, and aid that those persons and family's we speak of need.

And to answer,.. there is no grandizement on any ones part, not even mine,(thanks for asking).

And to thing just because you can make a baby it is a God given right is taking a leap in understanding our relationship between biology and spiritual responsibility.

God gave us Intelligence for reason, Free will for a reason and we stand in a time of choices that will in future time read out our spiritual truth if we do or do not act according to spiritual guidance.

God asked us to act. not just pray.

To co-create, not lay down and wait.

Every Spirit filled individual in history acted and became an ambassador of change.

In a world that is so over populated as ours it does require some use of the legal forces that we have to instill some antiquity change.

If it were not for laws women would still be slaves and men would still be able to kill their children in the streets if they thought them to be under the control of demons,the power to vote to be free , to have a life, with out repression, O forgive me ...I'm sure you think we are still repressed.

My be,.. I see the corruption in the world ..but if you look at how far we have come we are more free than ever before, and we can, if we act, and pray, make those changes that even you are hoping for from our suppressive governments.

Stay True To The Journey and God will Guide us in to action, but don't forget to act.


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Do you see every thing through the lens of conspiracy?


No, but I am attempting to explain what some of the programming protocols of the master intellectual fraud are all about.

Quote:
Are you one of those persons that hold a inner fight against the power hungry persons of the world that seem to have a hold on our economy to such a degree that you can not see any thing else of human effort to make fair and political change in our world through the systems we have at this point and time.


As I have already stated, the world has long been ruled by the love of power. This is the source of the dysfunction you see in the people you work with and the social systems you must currently work within. But allowing the state to play god by dictating who may or may not bear children is wrong. Empowering the individual through the Power of Love is the correct way to act.

Quote:
Trust me I and a world of people have and still do pray for the help, change, and aid that those persons and family's we speak of need.


I prefer to Trust in God, but I am gratified to hear it! Why do you need more than this?

Quote:
And to thing just because you can make a baby it is a God given right is taking a leap in understanding our relationship between biology and spiritual responsibility.


From paper 5 page 71: No other being, force, creator, or agency in all the wide universe of universes can interfere to any degree with the absolute sovereignty of the mortal free will, as it operates within the realms of choice, regarding the eternal destiny of the personality of the choosing mortal. As pertains to eternal survival, God has decreed the sovereignty of the material and mortal will, and that decree is absolute.

This is the highest of our God-Given Rights. And from this is derived every other God-Given Right. Including the right to bear children. When we exchange these God-Given Rights for privileges granted by the state, we allow the state to play god, and have in fact surrendered our mortal will to the state. This is exactly what those who serve the love of power want us to do, because it increases their power and authority over us.

Quote:
God gave us Intelligence for reason, Free will for a reason and we stand in a time of choices that will in future time read out our spiritual truth if we do or do not act according to spiritual guidance.


Agreed. And for this reason I will not only resist the suggestion of a parental licensing act, I strongly object to it. Even if I must stand alone in this objection.

Quote:
If it were not for laws women would still be slaves and men would still be able to kill their children in the streets if they thought them to be under the control of demons,the power to vote to be free , to have a life, with out repression, O forgive me ...I'm sure you think we are still repressed.


The laws you cite here are worthy because they empower the individual. The [hypothetical] parental licensing act is unworthy because it empowers the state. The more of our God-Given Rights we relinquish to the state, the more we are enslaved by the state.

Quote:
My be,.. I see the corruption in the world ..but if you look at how far we have come we are more free than ever before, and we can, if we act, and pray, make those changes that even you are hoping for from our suppressive governments.


The [hypothetical] parental licensing act will enable the government to be even more oppressive. Is this really what you want? Such a law takes away our freedoms by taking away our individual God-Given Rights. And this is precisely what corruption has worked long and hard to obtain.

Quote:
You see this as a power issue.


You bet I do! The state derives its power and authority from We the People not the other way around. You are working to subvert this whether you realize it or not.

Tell me Jim---how would you like it if someone told you that because you failed a parental licensing test, for the good of the state and in observance of the law---you must be neutered. Would you submit? If you really believe the parental licensing act is the way to go, perhaps you should step up to the plate and get a vasectomy.

What's next? The RFID chip? The RFID chip is designed to do away with all of our God-Given Rights and give full temporal authority to the state. Not only would the state be able to dictate who may or may not have children, but the state would be able to dictate every facet of our lives, including whether we live or die, just by throwing a switch. Does that sound like the world in which you want to live? I don't. Your actions are helping to bring this about.

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My friend you are stretching reality and are way off base here.

And you do not understand what it mean to have a God given right with this issue. I'm sorry we are not coming to terms here but i am about saving children and you are re-acting from in fear. a fear that has no grounds.


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All my experience tells me to stay out of this -- that it is dangerous to get between two ruminants when their antlers are locked in battle -- but this is such a vital topic, one close to women's hearts as well as to men's, that I must insert my voice.

One, thank you for the topic, and the intensity and integrity you bring to it, both of you.

Two, as far as having childen being a right:
Quote:
Nature confers no rights on man, only life and a world in which to live it. Nature does not even confer the right to live, as might be deduced by considering what would likely happen if an unarmed man met a hungry tiger face to face in the primitive forest. Society's prime gift to man is security. P.793 - §11
In fact, the animal kingdom acts with a lot more common sense than humans do! When they are facing parental responsibility, they discard the ones who cannot fend for themselves. They push them out of the nest and don't permit them to suckle; thus they starve. We humans are such sentimental creatures! Somebody ought to draw a line somewhere since the maternal instinct in some extends far beyond common sense.

Three, another point has to do with prayer. Yes, while prayer is the most effective thing we can do, we are also advised that we must have been industrious before our prayers can be acted upon on high.
Quote:
2. You must have honestly exhausted the human capacity for human adjustment. You must have been industrious. P.1002 - §8
I interpret that as meaning we need to do everything humanly possible to bring into effect that which is our prayer before there is any possibility for "divine intervention," and so the righteous thing to do is to act to intervene on behalf of mercy as soon as we see the need. This is reinforced by ...

Four, we have a right and a duty to uphold our civilization. WE are the people, not the government. WE should establish these parental guidelines and see to it that they are carried out through "the court of public opinion" which is how I see my clan did it. Folks kept other folks in line, and when somebody was reproducing children like dogs and cats, too many to feed, too retarded to care for themselves, they were socially cast out -- like animal parents will cast aside their defectives -- and it did not take long before the county authorities or the churchified do-gooders noticed and acted on such negligence.

So essentially the parental laws are already in effect; they just aren't as effective as they once were. We have grown too indifferent. As our population has increased, we burrow into our own lives such that we try not to pay attention to what is happening outside us, unless it is part of our work or social service, or until it starts costing us tax-payer money and then we sit up and take notice.

I am reminded, of course, of the Chinese who, as I understand it, were having such a problem with overpopulation in their country, the leaders came down hard on reproduction and now it is really a very serious issue there. It was no doubt difficult to have their free will infringed upon, but what if we run out of room, run out of food, run out of ways to keep order? The government (of the people, by the people, for the people) has a right to organize on behalf of the people.

NOW, having adjusted, the Chinese look at our American reproductive practices as indulgent and irresponsible. And they are! Unfortunately, it is the hoardes who multiply most, while the more thoughtful abstain, so our bell curve is diminishing rapidly -- even as China's stays afloat. We are our own worst enemy. And we are sentimental fools. Self-indulged.

My opinion only. For what it's worth.

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Excellent and worthwhile opinion IMHO.

Larry


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