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(((Gerdean))) No problem at all! You go gurl!

"Zooids of the Planet Urth Unite!"
Peace!
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Angel, Karlus, and Gerdean;

What if children, especially girls, were taught from a very early age that they are the "boss" of their own bodies and that they do not have to become pregnant unless they choose to? Even as they do not have to consent to sex if they don't want to.

I personally believe that as we demonstrate greater spiritual growth potential, we also achieve greater personal sovereignty. One of the ways this increased personal sovereignty could manifest is that women might have the God given ability to will themselves to not become pregnant unless they are assured all necessary conditions to start a loving family are in place.

I'm not talking about external contraceptives, the morning after pill, or abortion. Nor am I discussing imaculate conception. I'm talking about the power of free-will choice with respect to normal biological function.

The school system is well placed to define in societal terms exactly what constitutes a loving family and the responsibility that goes with it, without actually replacing that family. If Uncle Sam will keep his red, white, and blue nose out of it, that is.

Currently adolescents receive far more "virtual education" regarding the behavior of dysfunctional families via cable TV than what the "ideal" behavior of loving family should actually be like from real life parents, teachers, or religious leaders.

Karlus said: "Pick the brighter of the students and give them the privilege of "Tutoring" parts of the class. In other words helping their mentors understand the lessons being taught."

Trust me Karlus, as short handed as teachers are in this day and age, teachers are quite familiar with this concept and make use of it every chance they get!!! It tends to work better in grades K-3 but not as well with older students, however. Younger students enjoy being "teacher's helper", while older students don't. Teachers discuss among themselves many ways to encourage brighter kids via rewards to be "teachers helper." Older students just don't think its cool.

As for repeating grades, this happens quite a bit and many kids who repeat a grade consider it a badge of honor, not a source of shame. But this has a direct relationship to the No Child Left Behind Act of 2002. I agree with you that students who cannot show the minimum level of learning should not be promoted to the next grade. But since schools are being increasingly administered according to the corporate menality where time is money and teachers are under increasing pressure to show a profit; there are kids who pass that probably shouldn't.

A program called IEP (Individualized Education Program) attempts to mold school academic resources to an individual student's educational, mental, emotional, and social needs. The program is mostly for students who are disabled or dysfunctional in some way. Sometimes, if the results demonstrate merit (improved student attendance, behavior, and test scores) an individual student or group of students are permitted the same teacher over the course of several subjects and grade levels. But this increases net cost of education by lowering student to teacher ratios. In the corporate mentality of No Child Left Behind; cost is more important than the student/teacher relationship.

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:24 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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What is Wrong with our schools? Society? All of you have stated some good ideas.

Let me say I had a good experience teaching in an all-black school in northern Alabama back in 1968 - and I had a terrific year teaching in a Chinese grade school in 1993. The in-between years I escaped public school teaching (inner city) to do ANYTHING other than teach American kids.

The problem?? probably many, many-faceted!!

But I chose to Feel Successful, to Feel like a Winner. So I escaped the school life.

My question.... why was teaching in a rural Alabama school a good experience? Why was teaching Chinese kids a good experience? And my limited inner city Amer. experience so BAAADD????

My simple answer - We as a society flounder around like crazy fish with Misguided Ideas about what Freedom is. Students are FREE to be crazy - at home and at school. Supported by Misguided parents who celebrate Rebellion. No need to elaborate. That is IT in a nutshell. Yes, this condition will evolve into a better situation.... in a few generations......
.......


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As a potential teacher, I am offered various "financial incentives" to undertake teaching within school districts which are low socio-economic status for a duration of at least 5 years, especially since I'm looking at being a science teacher.

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Last edited by rhermen on Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:26 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Rhermen,

Many people want YOU TEACHERS to fix their kids who are messed up with BAAADD psy. foundations!! You needs L O T S of help so that you can help the kids....

the Best to you in your Endeavors


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Yes, fatboy2, and this is the cost I find myself counting, as it is a huge responsibility for someone who has no kids of his own. I agree with you that this condition will evolve into a better situation in a few generations, but it won't fix itself, especially if the best solution we can come up with is to put the problem in a brightly colored cage...and ignore it.

Bearing each other's burdens works only so far. I'm reminded of the saying "give somebody a fish and you have fed them for a day; teach somebody to fish and..."

There are those who, having been given a fish today, give thanks today. But return tomorrow and ask for another fish. Then, receiving the second day's fish, return again the third day and demand; "where's my fish?" And then there are those who teach "let others do the fishing for you; you need not trouble yourself to learn how to fish."

We cannot be a "little-bit" free or "partially" sovereign. Freedom, sovereignty, and responsibility are inseparably linked in the Grand Universe. It is a hard lesson to learn, especially if one doesn't want to take responsibility for one's own self.

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Tough Decision

Rhermen, I left the teaching profession 3 diff times - always with a feeling of helplessness. I concluded that I needed to feel useful. I felt useless in a school, a system that was a "loser." Without systemic support, school admin. support, parental support, what can you do???????????

Perhaps a Super Teacher has a solution. That's not me. Our Society has to have great LEADERSHIP, from the TOP.

**************

Let me use Army Basic Training as an example. I've seen tough street punks and backward red necks get scared into paying attention to even-tougher sergeants. The sergeants had the support of an in-place SYSTEM that demanded military behavior - or else (prison). In it's rough way, it works.

SYSTEMS work - if they are designed, implemented, and carried out with Sufficient Wisdom, Proper Judgement, and Adequate Resources.

The constant cry for .........' more funding'......... for education is nonsense, and a distraction. What is needed is a Societal Will to move forward with a Winning Plan.

We all crave Justice and Freedom. How to achieve both???

The horrible confusion about F R E E D O M goes back to the screwed-up Planetary Prince. Since those days, the Individual's love for insane freedom removes the Real Freedom, the freedom to live in a civil, creative society - and to attain the Path to Justice.

p.s. we gonna make it !!


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I strongly agree with you fatboy2!! But please allow me some questions...

you said:"Let me use Army Basic Training as an example. I've seen tough street punks and backward red necks get scared into paying attention to even-tougher sergeants. The sergeants had the support of an in-place SYSTEM that demanded military behavior - or else (prison). In it's rough way, it works."

Isn't this example the law of the jungle, might makes right, survival of the fittest, and great leadership from the top...based upon fear of retribution from someone bigger, badder, and tougher? Are civilians to be treated as though they are in the military? In such a civilization, wouldn't justice be greater than mercy? If Universal Spiritual Administration operates in this manner, then why didn't Jesus cause those who dared to put Him on the cross, to fear Him and the cosmic retribution He could wield if He so chose? Why didn't He simply destroy them and be done with it?

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Alas, all my previous good intentions have been set aside in order to accommodate the demands of the moment. Perhaps my situation is representative of the problem at large. Life is simply overwhelming. And, as Rodan says, "The more complex civilization becomes, the more difficult will become the art of living." (etc. pg 1772)

It is "the land of the free and home of the brave" which is leading the fast lane parade. Bigger, better, faster and MORE is the order of the day. We are on a collision course. People hell-bent to out-do the next guy, and step on the heads of others to get there, send the message that affects the collective consciousness of society. Perhaps only after we manage to eviscerate most of the global population will Urantia decide to settle down and appreciate the value of a simple life. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

I think it was Randy who earlier asked, what if we were to teach little girls that their body belonged to them so that they could control impregnation. Well, that would be wonderful. It would be wonderful, first, for the little girls who, in this society, are taught that their entire purpose for being here is as a commodity for pleasure and procreation. If, in fact, people continue to procreate irresponsibly (from the pleasure-lure instead of from a sense of purpose), they are merely carrying on the old testament legacy of replenishing the earth but without considering what their actions are doign to the earth. We really don't need any more children for awhile!

It was China, wasn't it, that put a stop to overpopulation? And, if I recall, they were quite fierce about it. While I was not too pleased to learn that they were eliminating virtually all little girls while letting a select few little boys be born, to even out the population, it reaches that point, in animal husbandry, when you have to thin out the herd or they will overrun the pasture and the whole herd will die of starvation.

So as long as we propagate like animals, we will behave like animals. And this is why ideas like parenting licenses and procreation licenses have merit. But methinks the liberty bell has rung too long in America to be silenced. We are a country of "self-will run riot." Even the Patriot Act and encroaching fascism won't stop the impending battle between the haves and the havenots. We're over-due for a civil revolution here.

Perhaps out of this great struggle some of us can begin to forge the values in the Urantia Papers, which teach that the home is the cradle of civilization, which promotes the idea that whereas the ancients exposed unwanted children do die, moderns refuse to bear them, which teaches the concept that we are not simply propagating the earth, which is plenty filled already, which assures women that we are not merely sex toys and baby-makers and which promotes the idea that men are noble sons of God.

This will not be resolved before the spring semester, maybe not before 2012, but we need to start walking in that direction. Like Machiventa did for Jesus, we need to begin taking the steps that will prepare the way for the next revelation. In this way we will be supremely motivated by love to do good to others and we will foster much good in our country and on our world as a result. We need to fill in, through evolution, what revelation fails to accomplish. It is a process.

The real thing is to not get discouraged, to not grow weary, but to seek strength from our Source and encouragement from each other, as we trudge the road to happy destiny.

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Gerdean, do you believe women have been forced against their will to be sex-toys and baby makers by the noble sons of God? Wouldn't a civil revolution be a national example of self-will run riot?

Can peace be obtained by the use of violence? Can the meek inherit the earth by repaying evil with still greater evil?

It would seem that China's solution to the problem of overpopulation was drastically short-sighted because it now has too many young men who can't find wives and turn to crime instead.

Romania took a different road and encouraged the birth rate for the good of the state and ended up with a generation of un-loved children which had to be cared for by the state.

In my opinion, Jesus is the Super Teacher...It would seem that we can only choose to not allow our own self-will animal tendencies to run riot. Others must make their own choice based upon their own understanding of privilege vs. responsibility, and license vs. liberty.

"Divine Justice will never destroy that which Divine Mercy can save." quote from Paul Kemp

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RHerman engages Gerdean in Q&A:

Q: Gerdean, do you believe women have been forced against their will to be sex-toys and baby makers by the noble sons of God?
A: No. Noble sons of God would see their partners as noble daughters of God, not playthings, would know they are capable of more than being barefoot and pregnant. I was talking about the general populace, the general conditions of our planet, and particularly the American culture(s).

Q: Wouldn't a civil revolution be a national example of self-will run riot?
A: No. Peaceful revolutions are possible. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a fine advocate of peaceful revolution, as was Mahatma Ghandi. We are a government of the people for the people by the people. If our government is not representing us, we have a right to put it on track. Change does not have to be violent.

Q: Can peace be obtained by the use of violence?
A: I don't believe so. Violence may create "submission" but not peace. It is only a temporary solution.

Q: Can the meek inherit the earth by repaying evil with still greater evil?
A: This is double-speak. Of course not. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Q: It would seem that China's solution to the problem of overpopulation was drastically short-sighted because it now has too many young men who can't find wives and turn to crime instead.
A: Some would call this "karma." It is certainly cause-and-effect. I did not present the Chinese case as a solution, but as a point of discussion.

Q: Romania took a different road and encouraged the birth rate for the good of the state and ended up with a generation of un-loved children which had to be cared for by the state.
A: Another poorly implemented "solution." Another ill-advised cause-and-effect. When is humanity going to learn foresight?

Q: In my opinion, Jesus is the Super Teacher...It would seem that we can only choose to not allow our own self-will animal tendencies to run riot. Others must make their own choice based upon their own understanding of privilege vs. responsibility, and license vs. liberty.
A: Yes, you are absolutely right. We, as individuals, are in no position to tell other people how to live their lives. We can only live our lives the best we know how and, hopefully, in the same manner in which Jesus lived his -- with self respect and complete trust in our Father's guidance. And perhaps by so doing, we can teach by example.

"Divine Justice will never destroy that which Divine Mercy can save." quote from Paul Kemp

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OK Gerdean, if you're willing and have the time, a little more Q&A...as a point of discussion and the cause and effect of "karma": Have you heard of "Weltanschauung?" [sp?] The quiet revolution based on inner peace; revolution need not be violent...

The concept that the meek shall inherit the earth, because Jesus will return and punish the evil doers and reward His own; is this an example of two wrongs don't make a right? The chosen people mentality; my God is better than your God...

Do you believe the USA is currently reaping what is has sown? There may very well be members of other countries like Japan for example who do. Children in Japanese cartoons fighting wars in 100ft tall robots against the "enemy"; sure seems to be sending a message from their collective consciousness...

Do you believe that a noble daughter of God would expect her husband to submit to her every want? The status of money and material possessions are more important than people; children are taught this from a very early age...

If things like parenting or procreation licenses become law and things like eugenics become mandatory, is this not an example of the GOVT telling us how to live our life? The Fourth Reich or New World Order cleaning out the "undesireables" which many are attempting to use the name of Jesus to do; Jesus refused the throne of David...

It seems to me that laws are becoming increasingly designed to control behavior, the seat belt laws, helmet laws, Patriot Act, and are slowly encroaching upon personal freedom because the people surely can't decide these things for themselves? The GOVT will take care of us; we obviously can't take care of ourselves...

Perhaps the survivors of this great struggle of ideologies will indeed have a much greater concept of Tolerance, Freedom, and Justice because this type of survival will depend on seeking strength from Our True Source and from each other; not from government or money? Maybe these survivors will have Faith Realized that LOVE is the only true currency of civilization...and having faith realized LOVE; Jesus will return to help rebuild the world as a new Garden of Eden that may be enjoyed by all of Nebadon?

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Hi Randy.

No, I have never heard of "Weltanschauung" but I am in agreement with the idea of a quiet revolution based on inner peace. Mostly, it means staying centered, and finding my reality within, in communion with my TA, rather than finding my reality in the material world, yet not turning my back on the material world, simply serving thereon (in the world but not of it.)

I cannot consider that Jesus would return to punish anyone. It is anathema to my sense of who Jesus is and what he represents. The idea of "my God is bigger than your God" is an unenlightened aspect of the evolving worlds. It is error and will eventually pass away.

The USA is certainly doing some very stupid things, as do all people when the resort to violence. But this is evidently how the races of time learn to live in peace. Or die trying. I would suggest, without going into specifics, that war creates its own "karma" and it takes literally generations for the effects of such behavior to work itself out. Of course there is residue retaliation for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Of course there is residue hostility and anger from the Third Reich. Of course there will be untold misery because of the disease of nationalism with the Iraqi and on and on and on. We are, alas, only semi-civilized, and at the rate we seem to be going, we are destined to remain semi-civilized for some time to come. Computer games, like the 100 ft high Chinese kids are using, and the battles that our own youth are gobbling up like halloween candy, will have their cause-and-effect, yes of course.

No, certainly I do not believe a noble daughte of God would be spoiled and materialistic. I realize that children are being taught some pathetic values and again, we will see a lot of negative effect from such causes. The only hope is that these children will be indwelt by some advanced Adjusters that will be able to get through to them so that "the buck stops here" and the process alters for the better.

Yes, with such mentality as we see manifesting, it is a very real threat, that science fiction depictions of future society could come true. Even now, "Big Brother is Watching You." The good news is, so is Michael; so are our guardian seraphim; so are the midwayers; and God's plan for our world Will Not Fail. (Although some days I wonder...)

Our society -- becoming more and more obsessed with Right Behavior, Political Correctness, Social Form, etc. -- could very well be overrun by those who think we should become machines in service to the capitalistic way of life. This is why we need to WAKE UP, and why we need to be alert to the machinations of our alleged leaders, and find the courage of our convictions in leage with our divine Creator -- sans dogma -- and step out in faith to awaken the consciousness of others.

For as you say, "LOVE is the only true currency of civilization...and having faith realized LOVE;" I do not, however, conclude that "Jesus will return to help rebuild the world as a new Garden of Eden that may be enjoyed by all of Nebadon" unless you mean that he will return in us, in our hearts and minds, and WE, acting with and in him, will help rebuild the world. I believe it is error to await the second coming. I believe we must be about the Father's business NOW and return Urantia to a place FIT for our King.

Just my theory. But thanks for asking.
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Ah, The Sound of Music - great lyrics to the song "Maria"....

Today, we'd solve a problem like "Maria" with the NEW mother's little helper - Ritalin. And Mom can suck down her goblets of Merlot and Dad can drink beer and watch football... Sorry, folks, but no one has left you in charge of procreation - so stop being so delusional.

Anyone know what the population of the world was in 1955? If you can do math - it'd be yet another marker for the default of the FER.

Compared to what is actually in the UB about "family" - the "ideas" in this thread certainly should stop reproducing.


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Thank you Gerdean for your willingness to engage in objective, unemotional Q&A!!!

Maybe this quote has significance?
paper 84 pg 935
Quote:
Generally speaking, during any age woman's status is a fair criterion of the evolutionary progress of marriage as a social institution, while the progress of marriage itself is a reasonably accurate gauge registering the advances of human civilization.

fetish,

In my opinion, ritalin is yet another example of a brightly colored cage which does nothing to deal with the root cause of a problem. For most children it creates more problems than it solves. But for a select few, it treats the symptoms to enable behavior which is more socially acceptable. In some ways, ritalin has unfortunately become teacher's helper in the classrooms of today.

The same may be said of alcohol, presription, or recreational drugs. The same maybe said of the entire entertainment industry. Entertainment is by far the most socially acceptable drug of choice. Delusion has become so glorified in our society because people expect to be entertained. Rather than deal with reality, we escape through so many forms of temporary self-gratification as a self-justified reward for hard work.

Even the UB can be used as an escape from reality, but this is not the purpose for which it was intended.

from the UB paper 54 pg 614
Quote:
With the Son and in the Spirit did God project eternal Havona, and ever since has there obtained the eternal pattern of co-ordinate participation in creation--sharing. This pattern of sharing is the master design for every one of the Sons and Daughters of God who go out into space to engage in the attempt to duplicate in time the central universe of eternal perfection.

Every creature of every evolving universe who aspires to do the Father's will is destined to become the partner of the time-space Creators in this magnificent adventure of experiential perfection attainment. Were this not true, the Father would have hardly endowed such creatures with creative free will, neither would he indwell them, actually go into partnership with them by means of his own spirit.

To all,
Within the context of this thread, I'm not talking about attaining the same unqualified and virtually unlimited personal sovereignty as a Master Creator Son, but rather the divine privilege of participating in the attainment of relative personal and global sovereignty which is the eternal purpose of God in creating creatures of free-will dignity as partners with God. If Our True Father wished power and authority over us; then why would He give of His own spirit to become partners with us?

Unfortunately, most relationships aren't based on this type of sharing. One partner is usually dominant; the other submissive. And in the early 21st century, this usually has little to do with gender. But it does have a lot to do with a lack of personal sovereignty and spiritual immaturity.

In my opinion, those who crave power and authority over others and those who choose to submit to the power and authority of others; have yet to realize their full personal sovereignty of co-creative participation and sharing.

Teachers are required by society to set an example. Some of the teachers I admire most are not parents. I believe this gives them an objectivity which is valuable to their chosen profession. The most effective members of society never assume power and authority "over" others, but rather, engage power and authority "with" others.

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