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I wish I had developed my word smithing skills early on, alas I have only skilled my self at being honest and more often direct.
I do want to come across as though I understand every ones point of view, also to be non emotional which I am, but written words can not always convey that you are calm as you write and attempt to get your ideas and point across.

I thank you for your input it is always welcomed.


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Divinity-The Power of Love

People who embrace the power of love have no need to control others. Enjoys helping others. Primarily concerned with service to others.

Appeals to our higher spiritual nature.

Requires no justification. Requires nothing from outside itself. Requires no defense.

Emanates from consciousness. Dedicated to creation.

Associated with the whole. Associated with truth, meaning, and value.

Promotes education and the common good. Promotes truth, beauty, goodness, and understanding. Promotes humility, courage, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, and peace. Promotes mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health. Promotes faith, trust, and selflessness. Promotes spiritual growth and evolution. Promotes positive reciprocity by treating others in the same manner as self wishes to be treated. Promotes equality and inalienable rights.

Creates unity, brother/sister hood, fellowship. Creates the win/win scenario. Creates a positive role model for children.

Has no limits: infinite, eternal, universal.

Is still (does not move); total awareness. Is total and complete within itself. Existential. Self-sufficient. Is self-evident, inarguable, and needs no proof. Is a visible manifestation of the invisible.

Makes no demands. Has no needs. Gives unconditionally. Life affirming.

Enthalpic, inspirational, honorable, dignified, noble, supportive, constructive.

Brings a sublime feeling of ineffable joy.

Selfishness-The Love of Power

People who embrace the love of power have a strong need to control others. They do not enjoy helping others and are primarily concerned with service to self.

Appeals to our lower animalistic nature. Appeals to ego.

Must always be justified. Must always be limited by definition. Must always take and consume energy from others.

Associated with judgment based on partial understanding.

Promotes shame, grief, apathy, fear, anger, hate, pride, violence, jealousy, intolerance, separatism, and racism. Promotes mockery, ridicule, profanity, disease, and wickedness. Promotes negative reciprocity by treating others as others have treated self. Promotes laws, licenses, patents, taxes, rules, regulations and the profit motive. Promotes inequality and privileges.

Creates movement against something. Creates opposition. Creates conflict, oppression, and slavery. Creates the “us” vs. “them” mentality. Creates the win/lose scenario, enemies, and war. Creates dishonor, division, dishonesty, deception, destruction, and death. Creates doubt and cynicism. Creates the need to save face. Creates a negative role model for children.

Is incomplete, insatiable, and inhibits spiritual evolution. Is antithetical to life. Is costly to life.

Entropic. Concrete. Inflexible. Literal. Arguable.

Brings a feeling of self-satisfaction and self-gratification.

Requires constant defense. Requires proof and support.

[please note: the concepts listed in this post have been adapted from the book Power vs. Force: The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.]

Children learn by example. The Power of Love or the love of power: be mindful of which example you are portraying to kids because we are all role models of the next generation.

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Last edited by rhermen on Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:19 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Yes, and being dual nature beings -- of animal origin with divine destiny -- we will never completely resolve the two approaches in this lifetime. We have to muddle through with trial and error. We will compromise, deny, aspire, etc., until we finally attain self-mastery and consequent light and life -- for the individual, as well as for the civilization in which we live.

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I am strongly for parental licensing. The government wouldn't have to make it illegal to procreate without a license--they could simply offer financial incentives and other perks for parents who willingly obtain the proper training and licensing.

If we have to choose between an adult's right to reproduce and a child's right to grow up in a safe and noble environment, I am going to side with the child every single time. "Stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves." --Bible

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Jesus didn’t go around attacking evil or punishing wrongdoers. He went about doing good. In the same way, if parents could only learn to reinforce the positive qualities in their children, instead of attacking or punishing the negative, parenting skills would take a quantum leap forward and so would society. Because of this powerful principle that resolution occurs, not by attacking or punishing the negative, but by reinforcing the positive, lawmakers and regulatory institutions should be re-aligned to support basic human needs instead of attacking social problems or punishing lawbreakers. By doing this, there would be a lot fewer social problems within a few short generations. Of course, if there were fewer social problems, lawmakers and regulatory institutions would probably find themselves out of a job, which might be precisely why they’re not really interested in successful solutions. Dysfunctional solutions promote dysfunctional societies which enhances job security for the lawmakers and regulatory institutions. The master intellectual fraud, however, has programmed us to believe that, in order to do good, we must attack evil and punish wrongdoers. As long as we continue to follow this programming, society will continue to become more dysfunctional, because the programming protocols of the master intellectual fraud reinforce selfishness and the love of power but not Divinity and the Power of Love.

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"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."

It wasn't Jesus' mission to work on our criminal justice system or political system, but he never suggested we do away with these systems or not try to improve them. You seem to be worried about adults getting punished, but you don't seem to care at all about the children being punished, neglected, and abused.

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rherman
Again you try to bring to the discussion something that is not relevant to it. no one is pushing for punishment, there is not attempt for power, you are still coming from a fear mongering base that does not apply to this discussion.

This is a God centered approach, you just can't see it through your wounded trust issue from to much conspiracy theory's.

I know I come off judging with that statement , but I can't see how you could be saying the thing you are saying any other way.


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MaryJo606 says:

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Bad parenting is such a vicious cycle - from one generation to the next, and it is the rare family, or parent, who manages to buck that trend and who is able to parent a child in a better way.


Stacey Jackson says:

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You seem to be worried about adults getting punished, but you don't seem to care at all about the children being punished, neglected, and abused.


I do care. I am attempting to elucidate how this vicious cycle is perpetuated and how we can stop it. Children who are punished, neglected, and abused in a very unpleasant upbringing are subjected to the love of power at a very early age. Quite often these children grow up to do to their children as their (biological or adopted) dysfunctional parents did to them. Empowering the state through dysfunctional laws based on punishing wrongdoers will continue this vicious cycle.

We must empower the individual (parent and child). Educating parents by empowering them to understand they need not continue this vicious cycle is the way to gradually correct this social problem. This understanding cannot be forced upon them however. Parents must first admit that a problem exists. This is the first step and it takes great courage to reach this level. Once the first step is taken, the next step is where parents give their permission on a voluntary basis to take classes, for example, to improve their parenting skills (but not by being forced to take these classes because of some dysfunctional law). This is the way to go.

Punishment isn't the answer because punishment brings shame. Shame is probably the most damaging thing done to children. Parents who were taught to feel shame as children quite often grow up to repeat the cycle. Physical, mental, emotional, and sexual abuse all teach great shame. In terms of "vibration" it is probably the lowest vibration there is. When a kid is shamed, he or she experiences so much damage to all levels of their fragile being, they may take years to heal and grow beyond this kind of dis-empowerment. This healing process may even take the rest of their life because the damage is so great. Indeed, the healing process may even continue in the mansion worlds.

The same goes for grief, apathy, fear, condemnation, anger, hate, pride, violence, jealousy, intolerance, separatism, and racism. Parents who teach their children these things usually aren't even aware of the damage & cruelty they have done to their kids. They most likely believe such things are a "normal" part of growing up. They aren't. They are part of the programming protocols of the master intellectual fraud. To break (or brake) the vicious cycle, we must delete these programming protocols from our society.

Empowering children by reinforcing their positive attributes and accomplishments instead of hurting them when they have done wrong is the best way to break (brake) this vicious cycle. It takes great courage to do this and courage is the first step in breaking (or braking) our many-fold social problems. The second step occurs when these empowered kids grow up to empower their own children. This is the way to go.

Adults who were empowered by courage and positive role models as kids will go on to teach their own kids humility, mercy, compassion, and forgiveness. Jesus not only stood for all of these things, he allowed himself to be sacrificed in order to shatter the programming protocols of the master intellectual fraud, and thereby, He opened the door so that the Light of Truth can shine through.

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I don't know why this is going on so long the program is not even off the ground, it has only been a discussion in small psychological circles so far.

Either way I must point out that you have a gross miss interpretation of the program any how.

Most every parent that would take the program would pass it, so it would not be a problem.
Those that did not pass and I hope that to be a small number, would be given 4 attempt to pass before they would be allow to care for their child, and if they could not pass a basic parenting education program, than and only than would the need of the child come before the rights of the parent, it is not a punishment it is a protection to the child.


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27,265 hits on this thread? Surely that's a typo. If it isn't a typo, if it is an actual reading of how many people have opened this thread to see what we are talking about, we do indeed have our work cut out for us.

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Hi -- no 27,265 hits (which is right now -- 9/17/08 -- 27,311 hits) is not a typo. The number of posts can be relatively small while the number of hits, or reads, can be quite high. A good many "outsiders" come to this discussion board by way of search engines, having no experience with the teachings of TUB. That's why it's good practice to keep your best foot forward when posting -- you'll never know who's reading what you've written. This particular topic is one of interest to a good many people.

Larry


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I was so proud of myself for getting past the full moon without lunar madness, but then just yesterday, without even trying, I managed to alienate a neighbor lady, whom I like. I had my best foot forward and yet she took offense to something I composed in response to an email she sent out. I thought my response was totally innocuous and had no idea it would be construed as offensive in any way. Our subsequent exchanges went from bad to worse, however, and despite my protestations of innocence, definition of terms, review of mutual frame of reference, etc., our association is definitely threatened. We are on "mute" right now, and I am frankly discouraged from saying anything to her ever again about anything at all because her reaction to my response to an impersonal email she sent was taken as some kind of personal assault on the character of somebody who wasn't even there and that I don't even know!

I'll be darned if I'm going to go walking around on egg shells for fear of inadvertently offending somebody - especially six weeks before a critical election when a lot of people's emotions are on edge. There are some days and some situations when it is better if I just don't say anything at all. I guess that is why I spend so much time sitting in the Corner. :wink:

But since this thread is about Marriage and Family Life, let me contribute something relevant to my posting. Even as a young child my otherwise wonderful parents accused me of being insubordinate when I questioned the wisdom of their authority, got angry when I asked questions they couldn't answer, or punished me for "sassing" when I offered a different perspective. Our formative years are so critical to what kind of adult we will grow up to be. Parents must teach children something more than blind obedience if they want them to become self-respecting, contributing members of society.

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Such a life on such a planet...


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I agree with you about not lacking on some one else's issue about thinks not meant, when we speak our truths.

One of the issues with raising children is letting them become, or creating in them a dependence on emotional baggage. we see adults all the time that have no coping skills because their emotions rule their lives.

this would be a great example of what could be taught to parent as they raise there children ...not to take it personal if a child does or does not react the way they expect. or cry to much even just acts out their natural development of curiosity. that is so many time punished be cause a parent over reacts.


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How can we become self-governing if we give the state even more authority than it already has? In both the Urantia Book and the Bible, Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and render to God the things that are God's."

J.B. says:
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Most every parent that would take the program would pass it, so it would not be a problem. Those that did not pass and I hope that to be a small number, would be given 4 attempt to pass before they would be allow to care for their child, and if they could not pass a basic parenting education program, than and only than would the need of the child come before the rights of the parent, it is not a punishment it is a protection to the child.


It isn't up to the state who passes or fails. By giving the state the authority to even determine such a thing you are giving to Caesar those things which belong to God. This is what the "virus of national sovereignty" is all about.

Or to offer financial incentive or other perks (as Stacey suggests) to parents for improving their parenting skills, is giving to God those things which belong to Caesar. Either way this causes people to lose their moral compass by confusing their loyalties.

Parents must choose to improve their parenting skills of their own free-will because they want the world to be a better place for themselves, their children, their grandchildren and so on to at least the seventh generation, but not because they will derive any kind of short-term financial gain or because the state says so. By choosing to do the right thing of our own accord, we will become more self-governing on both an individual and global basis.

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Last edited by rhermen on Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:02 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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