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 Post subject: Any need for marriage?
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To all,

I was wanting to pose this question to those more knowledgable than me of the UB.

If a middleaged man and woman were not planning to raise a family but wanted to be together for the rest of their lives, according to the UB would there be any need for them to get married?

Love to all,
Jeff

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Jeff,

I would say there is no point in getting married unless 2 people are planning to raise children for the following reasons:

1. There is no marriage in heaven, so why go there now?

2. The UB says everyone is supposed to earn their living.

3. The UB says, "Men and women are addicted to making foolish and needless vows."

4. Aunt Gerdean wrote somewhere recently that she used to be an apostle, but then she got married. I guess what she meant by that is that marriage is a distraction to serving God and the rest of the universe family.

Love to all,

Stacey

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Hi Jeff,

A great question! And one where again a lack of reality-cosmology knowledge has caused considerable confusion on our world.

Hey Stacey too !

Actually, there IS marriage in heaven....it's just not NEW marriages. If a couple is married here, and both are promoted to the Mansion Worlds, they are rejoined. For you basically pick up in the next life where you leave off from this one.


Jeff my man, the reality of permanent pair joining is that it is really a matter of personal positive decision making. If two people decide that they love each other enough that they desire to spend the rest of their lives together, even for eternity....then there is a marriage. It's "official" the day they begin to co-habitate, along with physical consumation being a given along with the co-habitation.

The confusion comes from the brass and crass presumed involvement of the state and the church in marriage. A couple is not married because they have participated in any ritual ceremony, exchanged any jewelery, or signed any legal documents. True marriage is a joining of two positive personal decisions.

The state wants to keep records and collects fees. The church erred in pronouncing marriage to be a sacrament. The observable fact of divorce is proof in itself that God is not joining folks up in marriage. For I assure you that if God should put two things, or people, together, no man can take them apart.

Otherwise, living together, even "with privilages" :mrgreen: but without a mutual commitment of love and longevity between the two persons, is just two people co-habitating for mutual association, economic necessity, fun........no long term strings attached.

To answer the specific question Jeff, if two people are living together, presumably permanently, for LOVE reasons....then they ARE married. The state/church really has no business in it. No rings, documents or rituals needed to create a marriage.

This situation can be further observed by going back in time. Back before there was a church or a state. How did folks "get married" back then?

They just decided to....and started living together. Done deal.


Hope this helps, thanks for the topic!

Vann

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Marriages may not be made in heaven, but they are necessary legal and social contracts. The family is the building block of civilization; it's where children are born, taught, socialized, given a safe environment for growing up and then the wings to fly on their own as well adapted and responsible young adults. Marriage is the contract that binds the family into a living entity and the lack of solid marriage and a solid family life is the underlying cause for so much of the social problems being faced today, a lack that can eventually lead to the decline of civilization itself.

Adults may simply live together; that's a living arrangement, not a family. If the possibility of children being added to the association exists then a legal and binding relationship needs to be established for the good of everyone involved; that's a personal and a social commitment. Both parents must be wholly committed to the marriage as well as to the rearing of their children and that's the intent of a marriage license, a legal document providing a record of that personal and social commitment.

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Stacey , Vann

I aggree with Stacey and the UB about the foolish vows. Couples think that just because of the vow that they are in union with God but their heart is not even close to where it needs to be.

The UB has alot to say about the subject of marriage and it is hard to discern all of it and fit it into the state of life that a person like myself is in.
I grew up and was taught that marriage was sacred and that teaching implied that marriage elevates a couple to a new "level" both in societies eyes and in Gods.

The UB plainly states that marriage is not sacred and that it is a human institution but goes on in several spots to lead one to believe that there is some spiritual benifit to it-



Quote:
Of all social relations calculated to develop character, the most effective and ideal is the affectionate and understanding friendship of man and woman in the mutual embrace of intelligent wedlock. Marriage, with its manifold relations, is best designed to draw forth those precious impulses and those higher motives which are indispensable to the development of a strong character.


Then on the other hand I can see as Vann said that if the love is there and they are already living together then they are married in spirit.

Is it possible to be an apostle of God and still be there for the one that you love?

Love to all,
Jeff

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Hey Jeff,

I think you are pretty much seeing the whole picture and Larry added some good points.

Their IS certainly a spiritual quality to love marriage. That is all good, beneficial, and God honors it. God is surely in FAVOR of marriage. It is the basis of the family and the family IS the basis of progressive civilization.


Your last question about being an apostle of God and being in a human love relationship? Could you clarify that some more? I'm not sure what it is you are asking.

Thanks!

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Vann,

It was where Stacey mentioned about Aunt Gerdian being an apostle until she got married.
What I mean by apostle is the ability to serve God, mind, body and soul to give 100%. Can one do it and still be have a wife and family. It's like I'm trying to write this and my 2 yr old grandaughter has distracted me several times so it seems like I'm not giving Truthbook (God) my full attention.
I'm torn between the ways of the world ( my granddaughters physical and emotional needs ) and the ways of God and the Spirit being Truthbook , prayer studying. etc.
The same could be said for a wife or husband that in marriage their needs and wants take presedence over even Godly things.
I remember Paul mentioning something to that effect in the new testament.

love to all,
Jeff

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Life is seen as mundane for a reason... that being, the problem with it is that it is so daily. We may prefer to believe that the spiritual ideal is to focus on being "way spiritual" and being divorced from having to deal with splinters, aching joints, bad hair, grandchildren... any of which easily interferes with being blissful. You'll not find this ideal supported by the teachings of TUB which instead ground us in delighting in the mundane, facing material hardships, striving to fit prayer and worship into every day circumstances. Jesus delighted in the distractions and paid them full awareness. The teachings of TUB focus on the value and reality of daily living, giving the mundane merit and purpose, prepare us for even greater adventure when the first chaotic life is done. "Life is but a day's work– do it well. The act is ours; the consequences God's."
Larry


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Actually, there IS marriage in heaven....it's just not NEW marriages. If a couple is married here, and both are promoted to the Mansion Worlds, they are rejoined. For you basically pick up in the next life where you leave off from this one.



What about soul mates or twin souls, i thought that they are reunited in the next worlds, but that is not in the Ubook is it...

I think marriage is necessary, even if you are not planning a family, having said that, everyone of my friends including myself are divorced now... i think if you want a good marriage, you got to have a strong community too... both work together suppose...?

Sarah

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Hey Jeff,

Very well.

I would say absolutely yes 100% any person can be completely devoted to God, in His service, do His will, AND be married, along with - with or without a family. Why not? This is part of God's plan, for us to be complete individuals and joined family units.

I see the possible conundrum you noted. Paul didn't have the same belief-vision that Jesus did. Paul was the chief "changer" of Jesus' message, very much what went toward the great handicap of Christianty from nearly the beginning. His early followers changed the message. This was not done in any nefarious way....they had no idea what later problems they were going to cause. They did this, so they thought, in order to have Jesus' teachings better appeal to the Jews, Paul's people. But it was a great mistake and debilitating handicap for Christianity all the way up to NOW !!!

These transactions are detailed towards the end of Part IV in the UB. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll hunt the passages up for you, no problem.

Paul was.....against marriage. He held women in the same low view as most of his contemporaries did. Jesus changed all that for the better but He couldn't stop anybody from doing anything after He left. Women had a very low standing in Palestine, and many other other places during these and many other ages. Some Jews held the view that "it would be better to be born a dog than a woman" so you can see the handicap Paul was working with.

Also important to note here that Paul wasn't even one of twelve apostles. So he utterly lacked the intimate association and first hand teachings proffered by Jesus to His immediate followers.

And so it goes with the Bible as a whole. It really has to examined line by line. Any given passage may be good, beautiful and true, or it may be bad, ugly and false. Some Bible authors were holy men, others not so holy. Some of it was inspired, some of it was made up to suit the tastes and ideas of the writer.

In the UB you have the unadulterated teachings of Jesus as they happened. A first hand account by the Midwayers who were there.

Paul's writings were so prolific that you've probably heard New Testament theology referred to as Pauline Christianity. Which is largely what it is.

I do not follow Paul or any of the other apostles. I follow Jesus. I worship God, not the Bible, or The Urantia Book for that matter. I realize the slow difficulty in breaking away from the older and less reliable to the newer and more reliable teachings of truth, but it's the way to progression. Go forward from where you find yourself. There are just too many differences to attempt any mix of the Bible and the UB. That said, the UB revelators give all due credit to the existing human records and the worthy efforts of the church over the ages, but they also do not hesitate to point out the serious errors where they appear. Much of the UB is a major corrective effort to mitigate the damage that the errors found in the previously existing human records have saddled humanity with.


Hope some of this helps! Keep 'a readin'

Vann

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Last edited by Vann on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:36 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Of course there is a need for marriage, even if you don't have children! And it is different if you have signed the contract than if you have not.

[T]he chances for survival were greatly improved by these male-female partnerships. A man and a woman, co-operating, even aside from family and offspring, are vastly superior in most ways to either two men or two women. This pairing of the sexes enhanced survival and was the very beginning of human society. The sex division of labor also made for comfort and increased happiness. (P.932 - §6)

Rodan supports marriage: "Personality association and mutual affection is an efficient insurance against evil. Difficulties, sorrow, disappointment, and defeat are more painful and disheartening when borne alone. Association does not transmute evil into righteousness, but it does aid in greatly lessening the sting. Said your Master, 'Happy are they who mourn'--if a friend is at hand to comfort. There is positive strength in the knowledge that you live for the welfare of others, and that these others likewise live for your welfare and advancement. Man languishes in isolation. Human beings unfailingly become discouraged when they view only the transitory transactions of time. .... (P.1776 - §3)

Furthermore, in our society, marriage is required for certain privileges and obligations as relate to health, death and dying. And not to be overlooked is this: "Free love, however, has never been in good standing above the scale of rank savagery. The moment societal groups began to form, marriage codes and marital restrictions began to develop. Mating has thus progressed through a multitude of transitions from a state of almost complete sex license to the twentieth-century standards of relatively complete sex restriction. (P.915 - §1) I used to be "a rank savage" but now I am a married woman and I cherish my legal status.

Just a note in defense of my comment that I used to be an apostle but then I got married. Know that I am still dedicated to my Father and to the furtherance of our relationship; and I am still consecrated to bringing the light of truth to Urantia and all that jazz. But I am also in a position to consider my spouse's needs and interests when it comes to how I go about proselytizing or ministering to others. For instance, my husband works nights and sleeps days, so I tend to avoid making noise in the house on those days when he is asleep, which means I keep the doorbell quiet and the telephone from ringing off the hook. And in many other ways I cater to him and to our lifestyle which I would not have had to do when I was single. My husband is also a very private person, while I am very sociable, so on my own, I would have lots of houseguests, lots of people coming and going, many meetings of many differing kinds at the house, but as it is, I do not because he doesn't appreciate such an invasion of privacy. So I have to be creative in how I apply my apostolic zeal. But I have not given up my dedication to my spiritual path, and I am confident my husband is also a beloved son of God who lives within His will.

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Vann wrote:

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Actually, there IS marriage in heaven....it's just not NEW marriages. If a couple is married here, and both are promoted to the Mansion Worlds, they are rejoined. For you basically pick up in the next life where you leave off from this one.


Vann, I can't find this in the UB. My impression is that sure they could meet up again just like any 2 friends, neighbors, or family members might meet up again, but only those who really work well together will be assigned together and if so it won't be because anyone up there is recognizing the marriage agreement they made down here, it will simply be because they are an effective team.

I respect your opinion on this matter, so if I am missing something, please point it out.

Quote:
The observable fact of divorce is proof in itself that God is not joining folks up in marriage.


Good point.

Love to all,

Stacey

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I'm in agreement with you Stacey... you'll meet family and friends but will not become family -- that task was taken care of here. Imagine being married here to an authoritarian, autocratic, abusive, or otherwise undesirable spouse and waking up on the mansion worlds and being told "hi, here you go... just like you left off." Kind of takes the glow off of heaven doesn't it.
Larry


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Larry,

Yeah, that would definitely take the glow off of Heaven for a lot of people. I can't imagine having any social contracts or enforced pair bonding in Heaven.

I think the angels would marry one another if there were any great reasons for marriage other than for raising children on an animal planet.

Love to all,

Stacey

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Larry, stacey,

Up to this point I guess that you could have said that I was pro marriage. I still am but think that Stacey may have a point in that it is mainly necessary if you are going to raise children.

I always thought that it was the natural progression of a relationship for a couple to take the step of marriage especially in Gods eyes but I am begining to think that this may not be so and could likewise be achieved from the hearts of the persons involved.

I can't find anything in the UB about the continuation of a marriage in heaven either.

Love to all,
Jeff

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