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p291:3 26:5.3 That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: "In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:47 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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"Even secular education could help in this great spiritual renaissance if it would pay more attention to the work of teaching youth how to engage in life planning and character progression. The purpose of all education should be to foster and further the supreme purpose of life, the development of a majestic and well-balanced personality. There is great need for the teaching of moral discipline in the place of so much self-gratification. Upon such a foundation religion may contribute its spiritual incentive to the enlargement and enrichment of mortal life, even to the security and enhancement of life eternal."

The Urantia Book, Page 2086, (195:10.17)


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Iris I swear if somebody came by and said "have a nice day" you'd come up with a reason to argue with them over it.

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p291:3 26:5.3 That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: "In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:47 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Iris,

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One day I got really angry and demanded that my son do a written book report. The teacher agreed to it. My son's report was atrocious with grammar and spelling errors worse than a first grader. The report came back with a big smiley face on it and a big letter A. That's when we transferred to private school.


By getting angry and demanding, please explain to me how you demonstrated the Golden Rule to your kids. With all due respect, is this the first time you actually got interested in what your son was doing in school? What took you so long to recognize your son was having problems with grammar and spelling? Rather than getting angry and demanding, wouldn't it have been better for you to have gotten involved from the first day your children entered school and monitored their progress? Were you, by any chance, more involved with your kid's education after you enrolled them in private school because it was costing more money? From a kid's point of view, "if mom and dad don't care, why should I?" From a teacher's point of view, "if the parents don't care, why should I?" You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. And you can put a kid in school but you can't make 'em think. If a student (and his or her parents) refuse to take responsibility for his or her own learning, there isn't much teachers can do. Your kid; your responsibility. Seems to me that the teacher intentionally put the big smiley face and big letter A on the book report as a wake-up call for you.

A few years ago when I was an education major at a community college, I found the work & opinions of John Taylor Gatto. I even participated on the discussion forums on his website. url: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/newsletter/index.htm

Many angry and demanding people think & feel just as you do regarding the current (how long ago was it that your son was in eighth grade?) state of the public school system. Considering how strongly you seem to feel about this subject, there is an opportunity to discuss these issues with like minded people on that discussion forum while perhaps introducing the various concepts from the Urantia Book such as the Golden Rule. The same opportunity exists on the Strong American Schools website.

Randy

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p291:3 26:5.3 That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: "In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:48 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Teachers are not so much to blame.

The leave no kid behind policy, has started punishing schools if they don't show records of passing percentages.

schools are stuck between a rock and a bottomless pit .

they are making compermizes just to say out of trouble, "In school policy's" are hard on teachers and they are given no latitudes to do what their heart know they should do.


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p291:3 26:5.3 That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: "In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:48 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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The public school system cannot teach eternal values in a secular environment. From a young age, children are not taught to believe in themselves, they are taught to work hard, go to school, go to college, and for what? To make money. The public school system has unwittingly made it acceptable to believe that the only goals in life worth striving for are for the sake of material enjoyment. How many times have you heard a teacher say that whether or not you go to college or make a million dollars, you are valuable as a human being? The only person to ever tell me that was my high school wood shop teacher, and those words of wisdom changed the way I looked at the school system, even at the age of 14. The state concerns itself with standards: You must know this, you have to know that, you must be able to do this. It ignores the unique interests and talents of each child. It attempts to make them merely productive with no regard to happiness. Happiness, the secular society teaches, is achieved from being successful. But worst of all perhaps, we give our children to a school system where nobody but a few special teachers give them any real hope. They need to know that somebody believes in them, and that regardless of what they achieve in life, success does not come from the amount of money in your wallet but how you treat others--and yourself. It’s not enough for the state to say that values should be taught in the home; too many homes are devoid of values, filled with economic, social, and moral problems, dysfunctional, and too much stress and responsibility is placed on children. The solution that the public school system proposes: more homework and a bigger budget.
Teenagers especially form their opinions on many aspects of life from a young age. But those opinions are almost forbade expression. Most taboo of all are discussions of religion. How can a teenager learn to love and respect his fellow man when he cannot understand their deepest beliefs? How can tolerance be spread when people are increasingly isolated from their peers because the standards forbid it? I think many of the value problems in America today are caused because people are losing their grasp on their culture and are not able to understand the culture of their fellows. Only a complete restructuring of our educational system can reverse this trend of apathy. Well, I’m getting off my soapbox and going fishing :wink: Peace to all my brothers and sisters

~Chris


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Chris,

You make some interesting points. Do you have kids in school at this time?

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The public school system cannot teach eternal values in a secular environment. From a young age, children are not taught to believe in themselves, they are taught to work hard, go to school, go to college, and for what?


There is separation of church and state. Schools aren't supposed to teach eternal values. This is what church does at least from a traditional POV. It is parents who are supposed to teach their kids to believe in themselves. But many parents are more interested in doing their own thing and therefore expect schools to teach their kids everything.

I have had several teachers in my college career (mostly in the humanities) teach about the value of the individual. I have also had teachers give training relevant to finding a job or career relevant to one's major.

In 2004, I did some required classroom observation for some classes I was taking as an education major. I also have some previous experience as a teacher's aide working in a middle school during the 1996-7 school year. At that time, I was assigned to various teachers from fourth to seventh grade. Being a teacher can be an extremely difficult job in the classrooms of today.

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The public school system has unwittingly made it acceptable to believe that the only goals in life worth striving for are for the sake of material enjoyment.


It isn't just the public school system nor is it "unwitting." It has been done intentionally.

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The state concerns itself with standards: You must know this, you have to know that, you must be able to do this. It ignores the unique interests and talents of each child.


Actually, the purpose of these standards is to gauge the talents, skills, and abilities of each child in order to better serve employer interests. Students who excel will find doors opened for them by grants and scholarships and such. Students who don't---won't.

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It attempts to make them merely productive with no regard to happiness. Happiness, the secular society teaches, is achieved from being successful.


Agreed, but most people derive happiness from being of service. There are of course many kinds of service. Service to the state, the church, service to one's employer. Service to a cause like spreading the teachings of the Urantia Book. Perhaps service to self in pursuit of materialistic gain. Service to the Father by increasing the common good.

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But worst of all perhaps, we give our children to a school system where nobody but a few special teachers give them any real hope.


I have been privileged to work with and observe a few teachers who do indeed give students real hope. As you might realize, these teachers have great success in their classrooms because they teach kids to believe in themselves.

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They need to know that somebody believes in them, and that regardless of what they achieve in life, success does not come from the amount of money in your wallet but how you treat others--and yourself.


A laudable goal to be sure. But this doesn't pay the bills does it?

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It’s not enough for the state to say that values should be taught in the home; too many homes are devoid of values, filled with economic, social, and moral problems, dysfunctional, and too much stress and responsibility is placed on children.


I have met many parents who know their home has economic problems. I have yet to meet a parent who believes their own home is dysfunctional, devoid of values, or filled with social or moral problems. Compared to the agrarian society of a hundred years ago where children were considered to be an economic asset and expected to help with farm chores, children of today are considered an economic liability and have little stress or responsibility as compared to kids of one hundred years ago. Kids of today have more rights and child advocacy groups. Kids of today have more relative freedom. More toys, clothes, and other material things which are given to them by their parents. Kids of today expect to be paid for doing household chores.

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...and too much stress and responsibility is placed on children. The solution that the public school system proposes: more homework and a bigger budget.


Consider the example of Iris and her (eighth grade?) son. Eighth grade is probably the most difficult to teach. She forced him to do more work in the form of a book report. I may be jumping to conclusions, but it is quite likely he resented her interference as rebellious adolescents usually do. It is possible that he did not do his best work in order to express his resentment. Instead of teaching the golden rule, she taught her son the way to get what you want is to become angry and demanding. But she did "rescue" her son by demonstrating that she cared.

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Most taboo of all are discussions of religion.


Religion can be discussed in school just not during class (unless the class is about religion).

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How can a teenager learn to love and respect his fellow man when he cannot understand their deepest beliefs? How can tolerance be spread when people are increasingly isolated from their peers because the standards forbid it?


Volunteering for community service provides an opportunity to learn about love, respect, tolerance, and lifting the load together.

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I think many of the value problems in America today are caused because people are losing their grasp on their culture and are not able to understand the culture of their fellows. Only a complete restructuring of our educational system can reverse this trend of apathy.


It is because people don't care that they lose their grasp on many things. The change must come from within. The educational system can't reverse this trend of apathy but caring people (like your wood shop teacher) can.

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:27 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Did any one see Bill Gate on Opra.

I did not see it, but a friend just told me about it. and i think it may be everything this topic is about and more.?


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Good call Jim! I did see it and it prompted me to start this thread...

p.s. Are you proud to be a "Murikan"? I'm not.

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I have top grades now, though I had sewer-grades in the past. Want to know how I improved?

First off, you have to realize that there is only one school teacher you always can trust and rely on, and that is………yourself. Yeah, I said it. Sure there are great teachers, though many forget how individual education really is. The D-student does not willfully write poor novels, he/she simply does not know how to write a better one. Ignorance is not cured by our current system, and it also lacks passion and soul. Many students like myself have to create passion from whithin, though many fail to do so.

Students will never learn something they believe is useless, like algebra. And many math books never tell you WHY you have to learn it, they could remove such “we do not need this” culture, by informing the student WHY. We need e.g. to learn algebra because algebra is used in chemistry and physics to calculate how to create candy, and how to create safe cars.

The educational system needs to tell its students why, why, why. And how, how, how.
:wink:

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Dear Rednex,

I think you are so right. I know this from experience with parenting. From early on, I always EXPLAINED things to my son - WHY it was important that he did this or that. I honored his intelligence, even when he was very little. And he would stop and listen to me. And then, he would often make a better choice. He even now tells me how he remembers that, and that it meant a lot to him.

I think our schools lack this technique of dealing with students. Every student WANTS to succeed, just as all of us do. But we want to know WHY! AND HOW! And what are my options? What will this subject help me to achieve in "real life? So often, students are viewed as empty vessels that need to be filled up with memorized facts that can be regurgitated on demand in order to be a success. The big picture is lacking. Their "inner student/teacher" needs to be activated by appealing to their innate intelligence.

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p1094:5 100:1.3 ...Remember, year-by-year progress through an established educational regime does not necessarily mean intellectual progress, much less spiritual growth. Enlargement of vocabulary does not signify development of character. Growth is not truly indicated by mere products but rather by progress. Real educational growth is indicated by enhancement of ideals, increased appreciation of values, new meanings of values, and augmented loyalty to supreme values.


http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1351#U100_1_3

And I think this can better be achieved through helping children discover their own inner strengths.

Thanks for re-opening this thread...


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My kids are kicking butt in school. One is in private and one in public. I work with my kids, and help my kids work for themselves. They understand from an early age that they are in charge of their own destiny, and this empowers them. I love them unconditionally, but am critical of their performance. I try to make them understand that the world is a cold, cruel place, in many ways. I tell them, life is hard, but it's harder if your stupid.

Bottom line, I am there for them. I try to live the life of a supportive, loving father (sound familiar?) but at the same time, I impose consistant and rational limits to their freedoms. I was raised with no limits and I was a MESS!
Al


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