Let us know what you think.
Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:38 am +0000
I have read a few posts that indicate that faith in God is vastly superior to any book of religion.
While belief in God and faith in God are absolutely primary, it is clear that a Book of Revelation is practically equal to personal faith.
UB tells us how men (intelligent men) used to give serious worship to stones and trees and mountain tops, etc. Thousands of years saw groups of men worship some inanimate object or some natural object.
Without an actual revelation from God, man would slowly evolve as a nature worshipper - but he could never figure out the Teachings that came from Melchizadek, or from Jesus Himself.
The Holy Bible - with all its flaws and misinformation (such as the distortions of the numerical strength of the tribes of Israel) has been of inestimable value in carrying on a worldwide belief system.
The Urantia Book is the Fifth Great Revelation. It is not only a gift from God, it is a necessary ingredient in our spiritual evolution.
Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:54 am +0000
Isn't God just the Most Perfect Example of all that is natural though? How does one know what is genuine revelation and what is just another, possibly erroneous, theory by fellow human beings? Should one EVER give up one's independent faculties of reason in favour of what is written in a book or said by another being, however high they may appear to be? Does God want creatures to just accept things passively - or come to a living understanding of the Truth through personal discovery? How is believing without understanding through personal experience any different from the dogma and blind faith to be found in so many of the organised religions of today?
Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:09 am +0000
You are close to the truth on this one.
You ask how can one ever know what is genuine? There are several ways. We enjoy the internal ministries of Jesus' Spirit of Truth that He sent to serve the minds and spirits of all men after left. This began at Pentecost. Then we have the Holy Spirit, our Thought Adjusters and the varying ministires of Angels, Midwayers and even other personalities. We can, if we LEARN the truth about the real nature and availability of these resources and then cooperate with them, they can teach us and confirm truth and cosmic reality matters and functions to us.
Also, if we chance to be around at the time, we can personally particiapte in a revelatory event. Such as if you were there when Jesus walked the earth and you were a mortal participant with Him. If you received teaching from Him first hand and observed Him performing "miracles" ect....well you'd be compelled to believe.
UB reader-believers will tell you the same is so of The Urantia Book, they have discovered it is genuine revelation from personal experience with its contents and apply this material to their everyday lives.
You should thoughtfully consider the recital of why things are the way they are on our world from the UB....talking about problems and difficulties. Becuase of the Lucifer Rebellion, Earth and the 35 other nearby worlds that joined the rebellion were quarantined and there resident visable administrations removed. Back before the rebellion, there was a visable presence of superplanetary personalities here leading, teaching and guiding us. The Prince's Staff and Adam and Eve ect..... If the rebellion never happened, then these persons and more would still be here.
We would be able to see them. Everyone would know about it. It would be common knowledge. It would be full-time "revelation on earth".
Any individual would still be free not to believe or participate because of free will perogatives, but these folks would probably also be looked upon strangely by everyone else. They could understandably ask, "Why can't you believe what you are seeing with your own eyes?"
And so it is with us here ZIK. After reading all of the UB, most readers come to the personal conclusion, with the assistance of the resident spirit forces inside them, that TUB is real and true, just what it says it is. And that is part and parcel of what this website is about, as you have been informed.
You seem to like picking things out from the UB that you don't agree with and saying they're not true and want to challenge us to defend our beliefs ??
Maybe it's time for you to prove to us that TUB isn't true or what it says it is and claims to be. We'll listen to you but opinion in that matter will be useless. Show us some proof, proof that would "stand up in court", that TUB is false or not what is says it is, and then you'll have something.
But don't really bother ZIK. It can't be done. Others before you have desire to try and failed. Why? Because TUB is real and true and we here all know that. That is why we try so hard to encourage you to give it an honest chance in your mind and heart.
Learn well and peace,
Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:00 am +0000
There were many who, after hearing Hitler, or reading Mein Kampt also thought they had come into contact with the Ultimate Truth. Yet they were wrong were they not? They merely accepted Hitler's message because it corresponded to their own prejudices.
ONLY that which one can, PERSONALLY and objectively, show to be COMPREHENSIVELY consistent with facts and logic can one properly claim to know to be the truth. Such knowlege can NEVER be acquired from a book, even if God personally wrote it! ONLY thorough personal experience will do here! And such intimate knowledge will never have difficulty expressing itself logically - with language devoid of all dogma.
Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:16 am +0000
To your statement: Only that which one can, personally and objectively, show to be comprehensively consistent with facts and logic can one properly claim to know things to be truth.
ZIK I will agree with your thinking here 100% But now I must repeat that this criteria of yours....agreed to and all....is exactly what Urantia Book reader-believers are doing. By your criteria these persons, including myself, have had proven to them that The Urantia Book is truth. And fact. And logical. It makes sense (to us). Just as what you say you do makes sense to you. Well this makes sense to us.
We believe this way about TUB teachings as personal individuals. And that is what we are talking about here as you say. It's personal and of personal experience.
Next you say: Such knowledge (truth) can never be acquired from a book, even if God wrote it.
I will say that books are a media recording device which store information for lasting use over time. The function of these....books...is to describe, to relate to the user ideas and thought patterns, and things like mathmatical formula material and lists of facts ect....
It's the act of processing this information with our minds and to our use which is part of your personal experience observation and requirement ZIK. This plus the later honest attempt to incorporate the (good things learned from books ect..) into our daily lives. To improve ourselves.
So you CAN learn truth from books. It's merely that the book itself is not truth. But a book can be a picture of truthful information. Our personal choice and our personal experience all comes from what we decide to do with this truth once we accept it from....whatever source(s) we decide that we can trust and know.
Each individual on this world gets to make this discovery on their own. How they will process truth for themselves once they decide to embark on the truth-seeking journey....as all of us here have and certainly including you ZIK.
It's easy to see that your care about the....determination of truth. And that is all well and good. A necessary process for everyone.
And so it has come about that this book called Urantia has appeared. The idea-message-fact lists contained have appealed to many persons already and the collection of information is so large that it affords huge opportunity for dissemination and discussion. Easily so much so that websites such as this and many others have been established just for this "single-theme" based purpose.
Mr. ZIK again we are glad that TUB has come into your view. At least you're one of the very fortunate few so far, looking at the entire world population, that even knows that TUB exists and has a chance to learn something from it.
I only want to mention again and politely that your loud insistance (extensive use of bold and capital text) is considered shouting on the internet, on being able...being allowed... to forcefully argue, debate, defame and deny the teachings and information contained in TUB on UB-base site, and ad nauseum at that, moving from specious topic to specious topic on and on....is just absurd and unthinking.
We're all happy to have you JOIN us. Most of us are not happy having you here fighting against us and what we believe and what this website was started for.
Learn well and peace
Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:32 am +0000
Mr. Zik --
Getting a lot of attention aren't you. As of the rest of the day any further posts of yours will be deleted. Furthermore, for the rest of the coming week you will be on a 5 post per day limit. Best wishe.
Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:32 pm +0000
[Further posting on Sunday by ZIK removed by admin.]
Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:48 pm +0000
Re the 5 post per day rule, that is sensible. When I feel yacky-wacky, I post 4 or 5 times a day, and then I feel a little TOO yacky!
5 a day is a good number for me too! Comparing Hitler stuff to UB ? Lemme see......
Oh yeah, I insist that any Believable Writings agree with the 2 Rules - Love God. Love your fellow man. Period.
Those 2 teachings are throughout the UB. So - I ventured in, and considered the Book to be worthy of further thought, of lots of reflection.
About 3 months of reflection, and I became a "UB believer." Three years later, I have found 15 or so Great Items in the UB. And I have found Zero junk in it.
As an oldie fat boy, I feel confident in esposing UB stuff as my best hold on "ultimate reality," tho I know that my grasp of the Real is Conditional on my intelligence factor as well as my cultural background.
Feel free to share your best........
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