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fanofVan wrote:
Apologies for the misunderstanding. Understood and best wishes. I'll request that my prior posts be deleted. My time to edit has lapsed.

I look forward to following along.


You have nothing to apologise for, fanofVan. I should have made my intentions more clear ftom the start . Besides which, I know you were only trying to help and to support me with this, which I do appreciate.

If I do have questions I would like answering, then I shall make it clear that is what I'm after, and you’ll be more than welcome to provide your answer. :smile:

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Paper 7 – Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe

Following on from Paper 6 and the impact it had on me, I was more prepared for reading Paper 7. Reading about the Spirit Gravity Circuit was interesting and informative. I like how it explained, or how at least I perceived it to explain, the process of our thoughts and prayers reaching the Absolute Spirit Personality. This is like what the Bible teaches us in that our prayers reach The Father via the Spirit. I find that the Urantia Book seems to take teachings from the Bible and expresses it in its own unique way. Sometimes it seems to expand and compliment the Bible, but at other times it appears to teach the opposite of what the Bible says. The Urantia use of a circuit explanation connecting our prayers from the human mind to the spiritual realm was a good one, and one that sprung clear in my mind. I note that the Urantia book appears to say that we should not pray for ourselves, though I do think this refers only to greed. If I pray to God to be a millionaire, that is wrong, but if I pray to God to help me during a difficult time, I believe that payer would be honoured. Again, the Bible teaches the same thing.

In this Paper I saw another reference to something called The Lucifer Rebellion. I assume this is talking about the War in Heaven between Michael and his angels, and the devil and his angels, as told in the book of Revelation. Some Christian denominations state that this war is yet to come, whereas others, such as my past religion (Jehovah’s Witnesses) stated that this war occurred in 1914. I look forward to reading more about that.

So far I continue enjoying reading this fascinating book.

-----------------------------

Polite Request: Please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.

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Myrm wrote:
Paper 7 – Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe

Following on from Paper 6 and the impact it had on me, I was more prepared for reading Paper 7. Reading about the Spirit Gravity Circuit was interesting and informative. I like how it explained, or how at least I perceived it to explain, the process of our thoughts and prayers reaching the Absolute Spirit Personality. This is like what the Bible teaches us in that our prayers reach The Father via the Spirit. I find that the Urantia Book seems to take teachings from the Bible and expresses it in its own unique way. Sometimes it seems to expand and compliment the Bible, but at other times it appears to teach the opposite of what the Bible says. The Urantia use of a circuit explanation connecting our prayers from the human mind to the spiritual realm was a good one, and one that sprung clear in my mind. I note that the Urantia book appears to say that we should not pray for ourselves, though I do think this refers only to greed. If I pray to God to be a millionaire, that is wrong, but if I pray to God to help me during a difficult time, I believe that payer would be honoured. Again, the Bible teaches the same thing.

In this Paper I saw another reference to something called The Lucifer Rebellion. I assume this is talking about the War in Heaven between Michael and his angels, and the devil and his angels, as told in the book of Revelation. Some Christian denominations state that this war is yet to come, whereas others, such as my past religion (Jehovah’s Witnesses) stated that this war occurred in 1914. I look forward to reading more about that.

So far I continue enjoying reading this fascinating book.

-----------------------------

Polite Request: Please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.


"and one that sprung clear in my mind."

A very common experience among UB readers.
Later in your readings you will discover mechanisms or endowments that facilitate this sort of experience.


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Paper 8 – The Infinite Spirit

Yet again, another interesting chapter in the Urantia book. I have read about The Father, The Son and now it’s the turn of the Infinite Spirit. Again, some more surprises for me as I read this Paper; namely, The Holy Spirit that the Bible speaks of appears not to be the Infinite Spirit that the Urantia Book addresses here. Rather, it seems that the Infinite Spirit is a higher being still, with the Bible’s Holy Spirit being a creation of the Infinite Spirit. It also seems, as I read, that each universe has its own “Holy Spirit”, as each has its own “Son”.

The Urantia Book tells me that the Infinite Spirit, like the Eternal Son and, of course, The Universal Father, are omnipresent, omniscience and omnipotent. If this is so then why does there need to be a “local” Son or Spirit? Perhaps Paper 9 will answer this question for me.

-----------------------------

Polite Request: Please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.

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Ok, no replies needed or wanted, journaling Myrm. But eating bin lids (raw?!) can't be good for UB comprehension, can it?


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Paper 9 – Relation of The Infinite Spirit to the Universe

I am finding that I am having to read and re-read, several times, sentences and passages in each of these paper so far, in order to have even a rudimentary understanding of them. Yet I do not feel discouraged; after all, I am reading things about the “mysteries” of God, and how He is three beings, but one. I fully expected this.

I have often wondered, when reading the Bible, how God could be three Persons in one, have been in existence since, well, since forever ago, yet we are told that God created Jesus, His Eternal Son. Yes, I realise that the Urantia Book teaches that Jesus and The Eternal Son are not the same thing, but the reasoning behind my thoughts here is the same. How could the three in one be one Person, have always been in existence, yet one appears to have been created after the other. I have come to realise that though The Eternal Son may have been created by the Father in a sense, He is actually an expression of the Father, not a completely separate being. Then again, perhaps I am being counterproductive in trying to understand stuff like this; it’s way beyond the simple reasoning and understanding capabilities of mere mortal man. It’s similar to when people ask me, as a Christian, to prove that God exists, or they ask Where did God come from? I simply do not believe that I, or anybody else, can provide solid, tangible evidence for the existence of God. If I was able to provide people with such evidence, I’d be a vary famous person, I am sure. Likewise, what is the point of being able to prove to somebody that something else created God, even if I could provide tangible evidence of that something else? It would only result in the question, so where did that something else come from? Likewise, what came before the “Big Bang”? What came before the thing that came before the Bing Bang? Ad infinitum! (Or perhaps Ad nauseam!)

So here I am in Paper 9, reading about the attributes of the Infinite Spirit and His relationship to the universe. I have to read slowly and repeatedly to try to understand what is being said. But like I said, when we are talking about the intricacies of God, who really can fully understand Him? Both the Urantia Book and the Bible tells us that no man can ever fully understand God.

----------------------------

Polite Request: Whilst comments are welcome, please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.

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Myrm, your musings remind me of my childhood upbringing in the Catholic church. These kinds of things were taught to us, among many other things, and to all of my questions that are really unanswerable by any human being, I'd always get the same response: it's a mystery. The older I get, the more comfortable I am with mystery; nevertheless, finding such a grand explanation of the more comprehensible aspects of God in The UBook has been a great comfort to me...things like God's nature and his personality, which you have already read.

Happy New Year to you and best wishes on your continued exploration of the big blue book.

MaryJo


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Hi Maryjo

Yes, it certainly is fascinating to read the Urantia Book. This is my first read of it so I am not expecting to understand it all during this first read. In fact, I suspect it’s one of those books that you may not understand fully no matter how many times you read it. Just like the Bible. I have read the Bible through many times, but still there are large portions of it that are a mystery to me. This first read-through of mine is purely out of interest, to see what the Urantia Book has to say on many aspects of life, the universe and everything. Though I am studying it in the loosest sense of the word, I do plan to read it a second time on completion of the first read-through. During the second read-through I will make a more in-depth study of it. :smile:

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Paper 10 – The Paradise Trinity

I don’t have too much to say on this paper as it seemed to be a kind of amalgamation of the previous 9 Papers, at least in that it addresses the being/Persons of the Universal Father, The Eternal Son, and the Infinite Spirit, but this time as a collective, rather than individual Persons. However, something puzzled me at 10.6.5 in which a list of personalities that are embraced by the Trinity Sons, namely:

1. Trinitized Secrets of Supremacy
2. Eternal of Days
3. Ancients of Days
4. Perfections of Days
5. Recents of Days
6. Unions of Days
7. Faithfuls of Days
8. Perfecters of Wisdom
9. Divine Counsellors
10. Universal Censors

Why all these separate personalities? They seem to mean more or less the same thing to me? Why try to split up these personalities? It is almost as if the author of the Urantia Book is applying deliberate obfuscation to the book, in order to make it appear more mysterious. This, by the way, is a question/observation I am happy for others to comment on in this journal entry, if you so desire.

As much as I am enjoying the Urantia Book, I do sometimes find that the words flow straight through my brain like a fast-flowing river, without “touching the sides”, to disappear forever over some unseen fall. At other times nuggets of information are snared by the filters of my admittedly low intellect and digested. I find this with the Bible too. :smile:

----------------------------

Polite Request: Whilst comments are welcome, please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.

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Without getting into details I’ll say the order of Days beings tends to begin at the central universe and extend out to local creations in regard to their function and location.
The book is structured in a similar way, think about this:
The book begins with Diety, not God.
Then gets into God the father as a personal expression of diety and on and on until about 20% of the way into the book in paper 40:5 I think the authors finally start talking about us.
And this is just “beings”, then there are “things” that begin with Paradise as the pattern and finally later in the book we find how this pattern extends to our world.
I call it righteous condescendion.
Then again there are the unlimited resivours for things and beings called the Absolutes. The creators draw from these absolutes.
You won’t put it together in one reading in fact putting it together is a lengthy process.
But forums like this among other resources can really help.
Another comment, as hard as I have tried I have never found contradictions in the text and I don’t approach it trying to use it to help validate what I learned in Sunday school.
Then later in the book it gets into beings like us and many other beings mortal and spiritual going the other way, ascending, others still are more stationary.
Lots to digest, be patient.


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no sophist wrote:
...Lots to digest, be patient.



Absolutely! There seems to be more to digest than even the Bible. :smile:

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Myrm wrote:
no sophist wrote:
...Lots to digest, be patient.



Absolutely! There seems to be more to digest than even the Bible. :smile:


And the Urantia book will not leave the bible out. In fact it is very inclusive of the bible in a way that makes me appreciate the bible in a very different and more profound way than I had in the past, and you will find some very ingenious/ artistic usages of bible quotes woven into new concepts that are presented in a way that makes sense deep inside the soul. I believe the mandates of the revelation require the authors to utilize all of our historic information that is available to them - religious, scientific and philosophic whenever and wherever possible in order to reveal the indended truths.


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Myrm wrote:
[...]
Why all these separate personalities? [...]

This, by the way, is a question/observation I am happy for others to comment on in this journal entry, if you so desire.

Hi Myrm,

When I first met that list, those "Ancients of Days" caught my eye. As an astronomer, this group are particularly interesting because of the way they bridge things eternal with things that evolve in time.

So how do these "Ancients of Days" relate to those "Creator Sons" and "seven Super Universes" you mentioned in paper 6?

As I understand it, a Creator Son represents the maximum intensity of personal divinity that can fit into actual space and time; while each team of three "Ancients of Days" manages the integration of the achievements of each Creator Son into the plans and requirements of their superuniverse of supervision.

In other words, small teams of "Ancients of Days" manage the perfection of an entire slice of reality (a "superuniverse"), while a single Creator Son has responsibility for a local universe -- those "ten million inhabited worlds" you noticed in paper 6:8.3.

PS: In case you purposely skipped over the Foreword, when the authors use the term "supreme" (or "supremacy", etc.), they are generally referring to a level of reality in which things evolve in time and space (thanks to the work of Creator Sons). When they use the term "ultimate" (or "ultimacy", etc.), they are referring to things that eventuate by different techniques.

But when they refer to the true "big picture" (our Father's actual absolute realm), from Isaiah 55.9,
Quote:
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."

The more students of these papers you meet, the more you'll see how little any of us really understand. Given your experience and methodical approach, maybe you can help?

thanks for sharing your adventure!

Nigel


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Paper 11 – The Eternal Isle of Paradise

Now onto Paper 11, and we seem to be moving away from the details of God, Son and Spirit, and moving onto their abode; The Eternal Isle of Paradise. As much as I found previous 10 Papers to be interesting, this look at Paradise appeals to me even more so.

But before I go on to talk about what I have learned in Paper 11, I thought I would sum up my impressions of the Urantia Book so far. I have to warn you that some might find it offensive. I sincerely hope not to offend and it is not my intention to do so, but yet I, like us all, have my own opinion on any given subject, and I should not be afraid to voice those opinions just because others may not like it. If my current opinion on the Urantia Book offends you, then I apologise in advance. So here we go.

So far, my impression of the Urantia Book is that it is a fascinating read, with a lot of new material I had never considered before. However, to me, at this juncture, the Urantia Book is simply a book written by some guy over a course of about 20 years (?), almost 100 years ago. I see various teachings within its pages taken from different religions, seemingly picked and chosen and peppered with the author’s own musings. Much of what I have read so far seems fantasy, things that the author really can’t prove. I am, at this point, quite surprised (but then again perhaps not) that people read the Urantia Book and take it as “Gospel”, as some “New Light” given to us by unseen spiritual entities; a trait often seen in religious cults. It seems to me incredulous that people read this stuff and simply accept it, without the proof being made available, such as the existence of seven “Super-Universes”, or an “Eternal Isle of Paradise”, or the existence, other than God, Son and Spirit, of “Creator Sons”, Divine Counsellors, Universal Censors, and so on. If the author had said that giant ants of living crystal were resident in deep burrows on the Moon, would that have been accepted as truth by readers of this book?

Yet, I find this book extremely interesting, and something draws me to continue reading it. I would like to qualify my above thoughts with this: I used to think the same about the Bible! I saw it as just some writings thrown together by men and women long ago, much of it seemingly contradictory of and about itself. It amused me that people thought that some invisible spirit “moved” these people to write its 66 books, and even more far-fetched that people actually lived their lives by it. Yet, I am now one of those people who believes and accepts the Bible as God’s Word, and I try to live my life by it, though failing miserably at times. So, I have aired my views here publicly about the Urantia Book as I think it will be interesting, not only for those reading this journal, but for myself also, to see how my thinking changes when it comes to my acceptance (or indeed, denial) of the Urantia Book.

Now onto Paper 11 …

Paradise appears to be the centre of all reality/spiritual reality, and the “home” of God – The Universal Father, The Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit. Well, yes the Bible seems to say the same thing. We think of Heaven as being above our heads, an invisible realm, up in the sky, inhabited by God and his team. Yet, it is entirely possible that God does have a physical place He calls home, which could, I guess be in a universe other than our own. This Isle of Paradise is also said to be the largest of the realities. Like the Bible, Paradise seems to be without beginning, something which my finite mind cannot even begin to consider to comprehend. The Urantia Book supports this by telling us that it is utterly beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of material creatures.

In section 3, Upper Paradise, my brain melted when I was exposed to the huge numbers of “people” that can exist in the so called Holy Area:

Each residential area can house 1 billion working groups. I am not sure what a working group is, but I am assuming such a group comprises of more than one person. But for the purpose of this journal entry, I am going to presume that a working group is simply one person. So,

1. 1 Residential Unit = 1 billion people
2. 1000 units = a division (one thousand billion people – that’s a trillion I believe)
3. 100,000 divisions = one congregation (1^17 people – don’t know the name of this vast number.
4. 10,000,000 congregations = one assembly … and here, already, my brain gives up: I don’t have enough fingers and toes to work with.
5. 1 billion assemblies = one grand unit
6. 7 grand units = one master unit
7. 7 master units = one superior unit
8. 7 superior units = one super-superior unit
9. 7 super-superior units = one celestial unit
10. 7 celestial units = one super-celestial unit
11. 7 super-celestial units = one supreme unit

And there, I think, the list ends, but the interesting thing about this is that all of the above occupies less than one percent of the Holy Land! Oh my poor brain!

If there are any mathematical geniuses reading this, please could you tell me the number of working groups that one supreme unit holds. If that resultant number is at all possible to calculate!

I stopped reading Paper 11 at this point, as this is a lot of information for my feeble brain to take in. I need to give it a break before I continue.


----------------------------

Polite Request: Whilst comments are welcome, please do not attempt to answer any questions I pose in this journal (unless I specifically ask for others to provide answers, which I will highlight in green.) These questions are purely those that occur to me as I read the Urantia Book for the first time, and I would rather have the Urantia Book answer these questions. Thank you for your understanding.

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When I first read TUB, there were things that offended me too. I no longer feel that way, but I definitely remember getting that impression occasionally throughout the reading of the book in its entirety. It's okay to feel that way - the book shatters so much of what we have been immersed in, beliefs, mores, previous religious texts.

I remember thinking how crazy it was to believe that the UB was revealed by advanced spiritual beings! And then I remembered that for the first 20 years of my life, I and every adult around me, believed in a young man (Joseph Smith) digging up some gold plates and a pair of spectacles for reading them and .... well.... Now I just shrug and figure if the text rings true and has the aroma of the fruits of the spirit, who am I to question where it came from or how it got here? The truths found therein are enough for me. Worst case scenario is I die and never wake up again, boohoo.

For me and what I enjoy about life, believing in UB and its teachings brings me joy. No harm done! (Unlike cults, where adherents are gradually led into a scam wherein they give away their $$$ or personal possessions to follow a singular cult leader, there is nothing like that with the Urantia Book.)


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