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No, I did not have too much to drink today. I stand by my words. I reject any words that smack of cruelty and heartlessness. This group has turned words into an intellectual enterprise instead of searching what should be in their hearts. You have suspended compassion, understanding, kindness, empathy and love because mere words written in a book get in the way. I think that is really sad.

Paul


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I think it is wonderful, Vann, that people can disagree on things and still find value in one another. I think it is a commendation to the spirit of truth that we all seek more and better definitions of what they (the revelators) want us to perceive. It is far better, in my opinion, to point out what we have a problem with than to put this book on a pedestal and say every word is from the mouth of God, or under glass where it cannot be examined. The fact remains Mr. Shakita, Iris and I all love this Urantia Book. We have all found tremendous comfort and intelligence in its teachings and our lives have been affected by it. And yet we are humans. We can disagree on things, or find more value in one thing than another. This is right and appropriate. As the Master would say, "Fear not."

I would love to chat more, but right now I must go paint with my niece. I will check back later for further commentary on the topic of dumping our past. Thank you all for a very engaging and stimulating discussion. I just wish Amy were still with us.

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Last edited by Gerdean on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:46 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Shakita,

There is a marked difference between wallowing in self-pity and not having the psychological tools or spiritual development to deal with some of life's cruelest blows. The attitude of self pity involves a person basically asking the world to feel sorry for them, and feeling sorry for themselves. In my opinion there are certain people who truly believe that the world does owe them. Yet inside of many of these poor souls is a cry for help. Jesus never hesitated to help a soul in need when they sincerely sought answers. I think you are misinterpreting this quote.

Not having the ability to cope is not an indicator of spiritual laziness. It is rather an indicator that the ability to adjust one's mind to the circumstances of life has been stretched to the limit. That is one of the reason men commit suicide, because they simply cannot cope. It is not cowardice, but rather being overwhelmed.

I've been on that side of the aisle, when all seems hopeless. I battled PTSD for over 3 years. It was only just within the last year or so that the initial pain of the event stopped. I stopped waking up sweating, stopped freezing up at the slightest reminder of the event, and forgave the person who caused the pain. Yet even with forgiveness full recovery was not complete. I think that there is a good chance that I'll be haunted by this event until the day I graduate to the mansion worlds.

Paul, I understand how this quote may seem cold. Yet you must understand that this was instructed to believers: people who have dedicated their whole lives--even their eternal lives--into the Father's hands. One of the requirements of believing this gospel is growth. To those who trust completely in the Father, even life's most regrettable experiences must not hinder them in the ability to do good and to love others if they can help it.

When Jesus spoke of withholding overmuch sympathy from those who only halfheartedly stand up before the trials of living, I think He meant that we should not feel too sorry for those who refuse to at least try. Indeed, those who have not spiritually advanced enough to be able to overcome certain traumas need the most compassion and help, provided they really desire to make it through.

I have faith that with God, all things are possible, and likewise can all wounds be healed.
~Chris


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And that's great too Gerdean. Thanks for leaving me off the list of those who love The Urantia Book. I likewise admire how you utilize a quote from Jesus in remarks back to defend Mister Shakita's horrible, demonstrative, heinous, scathing, ludicrous and absurd attack on Jesus.

And you're defending that under the guise of "well it's great that the guy gets to voice an opinion here." ?

I will hereby gladly stand up and defend Michael of Nebadon, Jesus of Nazareth, the restatement of Jesus' Life and Teachings as presented us in The Urantia Book, and The Urantia Book itself. He's my hero and the hero of billions.

How many people worship Mr. Shakita?

Let the lines be formed.

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Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


Last edited by Vann on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:59 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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p1683:2 150:5.5 In summing up his final statement, Jesus said: "You cannot buy salvation; you cannot earn righteousness. Salvation is the gift of God, and righteousness is the natural fruit of the spirit-born life of sonship in the kingdom. You are not to be saved because you live a righteous life; rather is it that you live a righteous life because you have already been saved, have recognized sonship as the gift of God and service in the kingdom as the supreme delight of life on earth. When men believe this gospel, which is a revelation of the goodness of God, they will be led to voluntary repentance of all known sin. Realization of sonship is incompatible with the desire to sin. Kingdom believers hunger for righteousness and thirst for divine perfection."


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:40 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Vann and Iris,

While I do not agree with Mr. Shakita's statements concerning that particular quote, I disagree even more with the attitude you two are showing. You didn't correct him, you attacked him. The Master never resorted to personal attacks nor endorsed those methods.

What did you hope to accomplish? If you hoped to show him the better way, you failed miserably by choosing to not follow it yourselves. Did you hope to show your spiritual superiority? You didn't even manage to do that because if you two were actually spiritually superior you would have treated him with more kindness and patience.

This isn't just a one time isolated event. It's a continuing pattern that both of you have repeated. It's time to break the cycle. People have been nearly driven away from this site because of the attitudes sometimes shown here.

I know you both don't like what I say. The both of you will defend yourselves using hazy logic based on some things Jesus said or did, use the "tough love" defense, say I misunderstood your words or that you really were being kind, probably even call me a hippocrite for advocating patience but apparently failing to be patient myself. Convince yourselves that you are both right. It doesn't matter. Hopefully we can discuss matters of real substance instead of play this childish game.


Larry, if this turns into another back-and-forth exchange of egos, then this thread has failed in it's purpose and I would ask that you please lock it.

~Chris


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Hi Chriss,

Somebody walks up to me and trashes Jesus, sorry I'm going to react to that and attempt to set them strait. I will not apologize for anyone doing this, unless it's a crazy person talking crazy while off their meds or something. This isn't the case.

So now I will ask you why you aren't defending God? Any God believer who refuses to defend the basic tenet of Universe fact and truth, the rule of the Father in Heaven and His Sons of Divine origin, is no real believer. So you would rather chose to defend an erring human over God? I find that to be an irrational decision.

The only thing we haven't seen this evening is joer, who has yet to show up and give his blessings and praises to MS for........for whatever it is he is continually and undeservedly handing out praises and blessings for at any given time.

Actually I'm glad joer is here, because the world needs someone it can appoint to share the love with Lucifer and Caligastia....cause gosh darn it, they need love too.

joe is coming......wait for it.....wait for it......almost here.......wait......

_________________
Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


Last edited by Vann on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:26 pm +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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p1987:4 185:0.4 Although these Jews were not at all bothered in conscience as they intrigued to effect the judicial murder of Jesus, they were nonetheless scrupulous regarding all these matters of ceremonial cleanness and traditional regularity. And these Jews have not been the only ones to fail in the recognition of high and holy obligations of a divine nature while giving meticulous attention to things of trifling importance to human welfare in both time and eternity.


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:41 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi Iris,

Well I'm dumbfounded at all the apologeticism (sp) going on here recently.

Anybody can say any outrageous thing and 4 or 10 people will fight over themselves for the chance to defend the person, no matter how stupid and absurd the thing said was.

And in this case it was just plain blasphemy.

Blasphemy. Now there's a word you don't hear in UB circles much. I have never had the occasion to even think of considering having to accuse anyone of blasphemy on this site since I've been here, and that's only a couple of months after the site opened in 2003. And so I thought I had just about seen it all.

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Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


Last edited by Vann on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:01 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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p138:2 12:7.7 The will of God does not uniformly prevail in the heart of the God-seeking material mortal, but if the time frame is enlarged beyond the moment to embrace the whole of the first life, then does God's will become increasingly discernible in the spirit fruits which are borne in the lives of the spirit-led children of God. And then, if human life is further enlarged to include the morontia experience, the divine will is observed to shine brighter and brighter in the spiritualizing acts of those creatures of time who have begun to taste the divine delights of experiencing the relationship of the personality of man with the personality of the Universal Father.


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:42 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Ah if you don't want to be called hon, then don't go into a Waffle House :mrgreen:

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Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


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p614:8 54:2.3 Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer's crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature's personal participation—freewill participation—in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing, this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God's will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania—a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:43 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hmmmm yeah I guess that's Southern all right. I've never had them together at the same time, but I could be talked into it.

To me, one is breakfast and the other is dinner.

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Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


Last edited by Vann on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:34 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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p615:2 54:2.5 No being in all the universe has the rightful liberty to deprive any other being of true liberty, the right to love and be loved, the privilege of worshiping God and of serving his fellows.


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:43 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I'll skip the beer, but thanks for the invitation.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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