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Hi Iris,

Regarding some additional same page observations, I’ll refer back to my original post and the subsequent comments – keeping it focused here in America. Excuse the rant.

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2) That technology has evolved our ability to communicate events, opinions, ideas, errors, enlightenments, etc., faster than most individuals are able to assimilate, sort, embrace and discard information in an effective manner.


When we were growing up, we had three (3) TV channels to select from and parents and children watched these programs together – a family event. Programs like Ozzie & Harriet, Leave it to Beaver, Andy Griffith Show, and others that displayed the family unit in ordinary life, with conflicts resolved, disappointments overcome, right and wrong discussed in context with the types of choices both parents and children must deal with daily.

No internet, no MySpace, no electronic games, no extended isolation from other family members.

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3) That these sharp contrasts are no longer effectively contained or organized within older political and organizational framewords [Republican vs. Democrats in America; conservative vs. liberal; traditional vs. progressive; religious vs. secular.]


There was a time not too long ago when individuals of all political persuasions, including those in the media, never failed to support a sitting President in times of war – enforcing peace when despots surfaced to exploit humanity. Now we have opinon leaders and celebrities from America traveling worldwide to voice their hate for a sitting President, disrupting the effort to defang despots intent on destroying humans that fails to adopt their distorted vision of what is right.

The focus of political vision in America is about securing and retaining power for power’s sake. It is time to return power back to individuals – how about an internet blog sponsored by C-SPAN that gives citizens a line item veto on pork projects attached to state and federal legislation!!!

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4) That these sharp contrasts are highlighting our parental neglects – roles for child rearing have oviated parental obligations in favor of others –states, schools, nations, media, internet, TV programming, etc.


Schools are administering ridolin (SP?) to control active children while other children are suspended when anal administrators find asprin or mydol in their pockets – insane. When did parents lose control of what can be injested by their kids?

The excessively liberal bent of school administration from K-12 to higher university education has been well documented. The contrast we need in education, or at least a conservative counterpoint, should be a high priority of PARENTS who care about their children being able to make balanced and informed decisions later in life. Current curriculum is biased, factually distorted, and deliberately neglectful of historical context.

The day’s of Hollywood portraying what was good and great about political service, ala Mr. Smith goes to Washington, has been abandoned. What is bad and worse about political service is what we are now served. Perhaps we need to insist that movies from the past are colorized and played routinely on MTV with youthful opinion leaders plugging them on the Internet and TV - perhaps shown in school to initiate discussions.


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5) That the “FAMILY OF GOD” is evoling – slowly. That some adjustments are necessary – done slowly. That effective leadership in government, education, and media is absent – and needs immediate attention.


We have a vote regarding who leads in government however the majority of citizens never bother to vote.

We have a voice regarding what are children are taught but we acquiese to teachers/administrators – strangers really because we can’t seem to find the time to investigate what’s being taught and why, and then demand better.

We have a remote control and a checkbook to make a statement of what we want on TV, in newspapers, magazines and movies. We need to use these tools wisely

Iris, I agree. The Family of God in the boomer generation needs to get more active.


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Ray, we are of the same mind. Perhaps it is time to make couples go to parenting school before they get their marriage license. Or a parenting license before they are allowed to start families?

iris


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Oooofff

If military service and training is the only way we can figure out how to instill morals, character and values to our nation's youth....then we're in far worse trouble than anyone has ever imagined.

What happened to the model of true religion offered by Jesus?

Military service and training can hardly be separated from war making and mongering at this time.

In the future, when wars are beginning to signifigantly lessen and peacemaking is beginning to take a worldwide hold, then such service could be directed to defensive means and social service like disaster assistance. But not now. Not for our forseeable future.

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page 786

"....War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming morally bankrupt - incapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation."


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pg 1220

"Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion and cosmology."


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pg 2085

"If the Christian church would only dare to espouse the Master's program, thousands of apparently indifferent youth would rush forward to enlist in such a spiritual undertaking, and they would not hesitate to go all the way through with this great adventure."

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We had to break up the family in order to fully emancipate woman, but we will eventually go back to it once woman feels more secure that her place in the world won't be taken away if she chooses to tend to the home and children for a while.

Iris, "we" didn't have to. It has been seriously broken for a long, long time...may be another thousand years before we get it right.

Now that they are liberated – at least in America and many Western cultures – I would hope most men and women can reembrace the old established nuclear family where men and women are co-equals and co-responsible in all aspects of family life and child rearing.

Ray, there has never been a period of co-equal and co-responsible established nuclear family in any recorded history to re-embrace.

And to you both I have to ask, exactly what do you mean by "liberated"?

Don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this "hurrah we found the answer" line of thinking but...

...we pour our children into the war machine and let the government "train" them?

Yup...that ought to solve our problems.

And no, I'm not trying to start an argument. I just find it hard to believe there are still people who believe that "Leave it to Beaver" was real.

The answers are in the future...by not repeating our past
mistakes.

Peace
Jo


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Oh, I loved Leave it to Beaver, real or not.

Jesus said:

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"The child must derive his first impressions of the universe from the mother's care; he is wholly dependent on the earthly father for his first ideas of the heavenly Father. The child's subsequent life is made happy or unhappy, easy or difficult, in accordance with his early mental and emotional life, conditioned by these social and spiritual relationships of the home. A human being's entire afterlife is enormously influenced by what happens during the first few years of existence." 1922:03


Jesus told John Mark that he could depend upon him because of his early home life which he described thus:

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"You are the product of a home where the parents bear each other a sincere affection, and therefore you have not been overloved so as injuriously to exalt your concept of self-importance. Neither has your personality suffered distortion in consequence of your parents' loveless maneuvering for your confidence and loyalty, the one against the other. You have enjoyed that parental love which insures laudable self-confidence and which fosters normal feelings of security. But you have also been fortunate in that your parents possessed wisdom as well as love; and it was wisdom which led them to withhold most forms of indulgence and many luxuries which wealth can buy while they sent you to the synagogue school along with your neighborhood playfellows, and they also encouraged you to learn how to live in this world by permitting you to have original experience. . . .Wise parents, such as yours, see to it that their children do not have to wound love or stifle loyalty in order to develop independence and enjoy invigorating liberty when they have grown up to your age." 1921:05-1922:00


I think the Cleaver household was a pretty good example of that. Even if it isn't real, it was a good example setter. Also, the Cleavers had a loving relationship that set a great example for their children.

Woman's role in society is not broken. Women themselves are broken because they've set up a paradox they can't easily resolve.

iris


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Ray, there has never been a period of co-equal and co-responsible established nuclear family in any recorded history to re-embrace.

OK, let’s try embrace – period.

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And to you both I have to ask, exactly what do you mean by "liberated"?


How about... now free to embrace a co-equal and co-responsible position!

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Don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this "hurrah we found the answer" line of thinking but...

...we pour our children into the war machine and let the government "train" them?

Yup...that ought to solve our problems.


Hmmm, I thought this was a discussion. Care to contribute a suggestion – make it real please or leave it to Beaver.

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And no, I'm not trying to start an argument. I just find it hard to believe there are still people who believe that "Leave it to Beaver" was real.


I believe television should be a source of inspiration. The stories in Leave it to Beaver each had a simple message couched in humor. Can you believe in that again – reembraced as a new Bill Cosby Show perhaps?

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The answers are in the future...by not repeating our past mistakes.


Hurrah, we found the answer!
:smile:

All the best, Ray


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there has never been a period of co-equal and co-responsible established nuclear family in any recorded history to re-embrace.


We were given the perfect example of a co-equal and co-responsible nuclear family. It was before recorded history but had a lasting influence on all mankind just the same.

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"Adam and Eve exerted a lasting influence on all mankind; for the first time in the history of the world men and women were observed working side by side in the Garden. The Edenic ideal, the whole family as gardeners, was a new idea on Urantia." 940:04


iris


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In retrospect I'm sure it's possible to look back upon the Cleavers and think of the the program as pie in the sky. But I too grew up in the '50s -- maybe my home life was not typical but for me the Cleavers weren't unrealistic at all -- any more than the Waltons were a decade later. These programs portrayed the real and the good in family values and interactions during their time. If they were on now perhaps no one would watch them -- but who knows, maybe millions would watch with tears in their eyes. Hopefully what we're experiencing now is not Paradise Lost but rather just a dry spell before there's a new and higher awakening.


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"The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood." 803:10



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"In advanced states, political service is esteemed as the highest devotion of the citizenry. The greatest ambition of the wisest and noblest of citizens is to gain civil recognition, to be elected or appointed to some position of governmental trust, and such governments confer their highest honors of recognition for service upon their civil and social servants. Honors are next bestowed in the order named upon philosophers, educators, scientists, industrialists, and militarists. Parents are duly rewarded by the excellency of their children, and purely religious leaders, being ambassadors of a spiritual kingdom, receive their real rewards in another world." 803:12


iris


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In retrospect I'm sure it's possible to look back upon the Cleavers and think of the the program as pie in the sky. But I too grew up in the '50s -- maybe my home life was not typical but for me the Cleavers weren't unrealistic at all -- any more than the Waltons were a decade later. These programs portrayed the real and the good in family values and interactions during their time. If they were on now perhaps no one would watch them -- but who knows, maybe millions would watch with tears in their eyes. Hopefully what we're experiencing now is not Paradise Lost but rather just a dry spell before there's a new and higher awakening.


There are reruns of these kind of shows on all the time... I know, because I watch them... I grew up in the 50's and 60's and my household was nothing like the Cleaver household or the Nelson's ... even though Leave it To Beaver and Ozzie & Harriet were two of my favorite shows, I never felt that a family could actually be that "perfect"... perfect in the sense that there was mutual respect and hardly any "fighting"... maybe I watched it hoping for hope....

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I think the Cleaver household was a pretty good example of that. Even if it isn't real, it was a good example setter. Also, the Cleavers had a loving relationship that set a great example for their children.

"You are the product of a home where the parents bear each other a sincere affection, and therefore you have not been overloved so as injuriously to exalt your concept of self-importance. Neither has your personality suffered distortion in consequence of your parents' loveless maneuvering for your confidence and loyalty, the one against the other. You have enjoyed that parental love which insures laudable self-confidence and which fosters normal feelings of security. But you have also been fortunate in that your parents possessed wisdom as well as love; and it was wisdom which led them to withhold most forms of indulgence and many luxuries which wealth can buy while they sent you to the synagogue school along with your neighborhood playfellows, and they also encouraged you to learn how to live in this world by permitting you to have original experience. . . .Wise parents, such as yours, see to it that their children do not have to wound love or stifle loyalty in order to develop independence and enjoy invigorating liberty when they have grown up to your age." 1921:05-1922:00


To me this quote is indicative of the "ideal" family, such as the Cleaver family, but it is certainly, for the most part NOT reality to me.

I personally feel that the family institution has crumbled with this current generation and for those few that are still standing, they are the ones struggling to make sense of a generation of kids that have no respect for life itself... look around at the kids... they reflect the lack of responsibility, care, love and protection which their parents have failed to provide... (there are exceptions)...

I can't wait to see our President in 16 years walking around in pants hanging down below his/her bottom while they walk to the podium in the House of Representatives trying to hold them up while talking on their cell phone. Maybe that's harsh (maybe a little judgemental), but that's what I see for the future unless we have an intervention of a bestowal or something to change this whole scenario.

KP


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I watched the Beaver regularly...it was an ideal, a rehearsed acting out of an ideal. And I enjoyed it. I enjoy watching re-runs of "Little House on the Prairie" to this day, as much as my daughters enjoyed the first run series when they were young. It's great comfort food for my heart.

So...I'm not attacking the series, just some people's belief that it portrayed reality for everyone.
I'm more than ok with holding up an ideal...as long as it's not confused with the reality of what once was.

I'm more than a little troubled by an undercurrent of contempt towards women that creeps out periodically on this forum. Eve being reduced to nothing more than barefoot and pregnant? That's in direct conflict with what we are told in the UB...at least the one I read.

I have to wonder to myself what is really underneath the disdain held towards feminisim, especially by the women who were and are being helped by the movement. It appears as if those who laid their lives on the lines are held guilty as being the cause of the problems, instead of them being an active and ongoing part of the solution. Is it fear? Anger/ bitterness...lingering hurt? I am at a loss to understand the underlying reason for such enmity.

More often then not those who are the most vocally resentful of the women's rights movement: have driving privileges, actually own a car, have a degree or two, have earned their way into a comfortable life style, have raised children that they planned, have been able to legally divorce an abusive male (w/o giving up their property and children), they have gained their individual rights as a human being with access to an education, even to a higher education, have had the ability and freedom to gain access to state and national issues, and can actually vote on those issues...these are only the most glaring benefits reaped. The list is endless and is usually taken for granted as every day rights that they have always had.

We take for granted that women can now publically voice their opinions (and make a difference) in print, in audio, in the legislature, across a continent, in churches, in homes, in the workplace, in corporate America, and yes, also on the battlefield. But this is reality today only b/c some women, at some place, at some period of time, stood up and fought for those basic human rights. Many were brutalized, killed, shunned...but they fought to give all women and children the same basic, God-given rights that men held dear.

There are still limitations placed on half the human population on this planet by the other half...for reasons too complicated and in depth to go into here. But underneath is a common thread of greed for power, control, money...and fear.

I will not blame the women who challenged the status quo then, who fought and died so that their children, our children, would be freed to live out their lives to their fullest potential...as God has designed, not as men impose.

But I do challenge the women who have gained privilege and stature from the sacrifice of those who did all the grunt work...those who now play a role in the confusion and breakdown today by negating those that made their progress possible. I challenge every free thinking, free living woman of today to pass along what was given to her in trust: to not allow our daughters and sons to grow up in ignorance of our past sacrifices and accomplishments. I challenge the women who were there to witness the pain and the glory, to educate our children on the facts of reality and to not diminish and dismiss our history. We need to build on it, not forget it.

I have watched the last two/three generations of women slip away w/no foundation to hold onto, no heroines, no guideposts. Many of the women living at the height of the civil rights and women's rights movements passed on what they learned to their own children. But there were many others who were so over-burdened w/their daily lives of survival that they had no energy or time available to even be aware of what was happening beyond their front door. Those were the very women for which we were fighting. Inside the homes, those worn out, broken down, fear-ladened women and children were unaware that outside their front doors an unparalleled chapter on this planet was being played out. It was playing out in the living color of hope, of grit and determination, of a courageous sense of righteousness that it was time. It was time to begin to effect a change in the hearts of our society. While Beaver the Ideal was playing on the tv screen, a growing segment of women and men were being upstepped to a higher level awareness. Dramatic and dangerous stands were taking place in the homes, on the streets, in the workplaces, in our legislature....all over our country and into other countries.

If the women's movement has failed, it is in passing our history down to our children, and in teaching them that this is an ongoing process of improvement for the world. We have failed to teach them that each individual is responsible for putting forth effort that not only enhances their own life, but also paves the way for those that follow. That torch was passed onto the next generation...or was it? Amazing accomplishments were gained/earned for people across the board...but who is carrying the torch today? What happened to the women who were helped, got on their feet by being "allowed" their education that "allowed" them to walk into the corporate world that "allowed" them to own their own business and "allowed" them to follow the inspirations of their own spirits? Did they get comfortable w/their own gains? Did they forget why they were able to attain so much more out of living than their mothers and grand-mothers? Were they so cut off from the world that they were not even aware of what was happening, or of the changes that took place? Did they come to believe that all they had accomplished was done entirely on their own? Or did they become worn out and give up b/c of the apathy and disdain of those they helped?

The African-American community is struggling w/this same apathy, this same lack of a living purpose within society. As has been pointed out by others, we are witnessing the results in our youth. Somehow this vital enthusiasm for living, for being responsible for and proud of our our place in this world, has been lost. We seem to have fallen prey to "each person for themself" mentality. What happened to our momentum? Our motivation? Our sense of...what harms one person harms all people?

There are multitudes of ongoing studies, and none have all the answers. Usually more questions are raised than are answered. But those questions give hope that the answers will come...and there will rise up leaders to inspire.

The Spirit of Truth may be waiting until we hit our collective bottoms so that we will reach out to her in sincere and unselfish need...for all.

Peace
Jo


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So...I'm not attacking the series, just some people's belief that it portrayed reality for everyone.
I'm more than ok with holding up an ideal...as long as it's not confused with the reality of what once was.


Jo, I’m not sure which reality you are referring to but what once was for me was a strong nuclear family. Most of my friends also had strong family units to support them – some didn’t, but most did. Only as I grew older and approached the age of marriage did I notice the “liberation” that some feminists found in divorce and the subsequent single life rearing children. In fact, only a few of my college friends still remain married to their first spouse. I think “liberation” has its own difficulties as well as opportunities and the contrast with family units of 50 years ago with family units of the past 30 years suggests to me that such liberation begat many difficulties, including children who may have felt isolated from one parent or another.

My point to Iris was that perhaps humanity needs a contrast from time to time in order to compare what they have with what they have abandoned. During the recent past, the abandonment of the nuclear family for the supreme purpose of child rearing, was a mistake. I understand that many women found themselves in situations that required them to separate from their spouses. However, once divorce became easy –from a cultural acceptance viewpoint – many couples used it as an easy way out from dealing with the same difficulties that their parents and grandparents also wrestled with in their marriages.

And

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I'm more than a little troubled by an undercurrent of contempt towards women that creeps out periodically on this forum. Eve being reduced to nothing more than barefoot and pregnant? That's in direct conflict with what we are told in the UB...at least the one I read.


I think you might be overly sensitive on certain subjects – I know I am too. I’ve noticed no undercurrent of contempt towards women on this forum. I have noticed that some women are more comfortable with critique, confrontation, debate, and co-equal treatment from men while some women still feel threatened. The truly liberated men and women enjoy each others company in ways not contemplated by their elders – this is a good thing in my opinion.

And

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I have to wonder to myself what is really underneath the disdain held towards feminisim, especially by the women who were and are being helped by the movement. It appears as if those who laid their lives on the lines are held guilty as being the cause of the problems, instead of them being an active and ongoing part of the solution. Is it fear? Anger/ bitterness...lingering hurt? I am at a loss to understand the underlying reason for such enmity.

More often then not those who are the most vocally resentful of the women's rights movement: have driving privileges, actually own a car, have a degree or two, have earned their way into a comfortable life style, have raised children that they planned, have been able to legally divorce an abusive male (w/o giving up their property and children), they have gained their individual rights as a human being with access to an education, even to a higher education, have had the ability and freedom to gain access to state and national issues, and can actually vote on those issues...these are only the most glaring benefits reaped. The list is endless and is usually taken for granted as every day rights that they have always had.

We take for granted that women can now publically voice their opinions (and make a difference) in print, in audio, in the legislature, across a continent, in churches, in homes, in the workplace, in corporate America, and yes, also on the battlefield. But this is reality today only b/c some women, at some place, at some period of time, stood up and fought for those basic human rights. Many were brutalized, killed, shunned...but they fought to give all women and children the same basic, God-given rights that men held dear.

What about the men who stood up and fought for women rights – after all, as you point out – it was men in power who recognized the need to make women co-equal in all aspects of life. Do you approve of the women who choose to make their move of liberation toward a career in the military?

And

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There are still limitations placed on half the human population on this planet by the other half...for reasons too complicated and in depth to go into here. But underneath is a common thread of greed for power, control, money...and fear.


You’ve just described all of the women who currently hold political office in Washington, DC – open your mind to the reality that men and women are no different in this regard – the lust for political power is universal.


Jo, I hope whatever difficulties you have had with men and women in your past and present are soon healed and that your present and future finds you primarily in physical, mental and spiritually fragrant environments.

All the best, Ray


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"Leave it to Beaver" left me feeling shame. I could not relate to the upscale nuclear family, where mother was depicted vacuuming the floor in high heels, watching TV while wearing cultured pearls, serving dinner to her family of well-behaved and obedient children and white collar husband who read the newspaper. My dad worked all his life driving heavy equipment for the steel mills and we never had a matching set of china, much less a centerpiece on the table or wall to wall carpeting on the floor. But we were clean and we were loved.

I didn't like the illustrations in our health books at school either because they depicted mothers in aprons, wearing dresses and pearls, setting the table for their children's breakfasts that included all the important food groups. They made me feel dysfunctional and inadequate, somehow, because in my home we had toast and cereal ... that we were big enough to fix for ourselves! One of the highlights of my school years was when I discovered that people didn't really live like that. I was relieved to learn that I was "normal."

So while we are questioning people's realities, let me stand with Jo, whatever it is she is standing for, because it seems she is taking pot shots about something and I'm not even sure what. I was not even following this conversation closely, but if I could not help but notice that before Jo came along the conversation tilted rather far-right and I began to wonder if I had run into a nest of neo-cons.

Any time the word "liberal" enters into a conversation these days, the tone of the conversation tilts towards politics, and in this case, it seems to be exacerbated by the liberation of women. The real effects of women's liberation will not be seen for generations yet, when our culture begins to feel the effects of the way women think. In Washington DC, where power is the holy grail, women are still thinking as men do. They look like men and sound like men and act like men and dress like men. But liberation for women in Hometown USA does not mean power in that sense. It means being able to think for themselves instead of having other people do their thinking for them. Getting out from under someone else's control doesn't always mean a snazzy job or better education; sometime sit means not being somebody's punching bag. Liberation means to be empowered so we don't have to be subjected to the power of others. And this is something that will be of benefit to men as well as women, because men, too, have to learn to think for themselves instead of as one of the herd, even what might appear to be a civilized herd.

To toss Jo's experience out the window as having been difficult and as something she has yet to heal from is hardly a fraternal response to a heartfelt outpouring of what obstacles she encounters in her ministries and an elucidation of those conditions under which our world, male and female, still suffer. Some great strides have been made toward light and life since the 50's. Uncovering pedophilia is a major one. In the 50's that kind of thing was kept hidden as a skeletonin the familycloset and never discussed. Now, thank God, it is discussed and strides are being made to liberate children. Child abuse is being addressed in other ways as well. Racial equality is another area that has seen great strides (although it is hardly finished), gender equality (which ultimately serves all of humanity, not merely women), and the list goes on.

"Leave it to Beaver" (like "Father Knows Best") was an illusion, not an ideal.

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"Marriage is the mother of all human institutions, for it leads directly to home founding and home maintenance, which is the structural basis of society. The family is vitally linked to the mechanism of self-maintenance; it is the sole hope of race perpetuation under the mores of civilization, while at the same time it most effectively provides certain highly satisfactory forms of self-gratification. The family is man's greatest purely human achievement, combining as it does the evolution of the biologic relations of male and female with the social relations of husband and wife." 939:03


Quote:
"Woman was long denied full freedom of self-disposal in marriage, but the more intelligent women have always been able to circumvent this restriction by the clever exercise of their wits." 923:04


Quote:
"After this pledge of subordination by the Creative Mother Spirit, Michael of Nebadon nobly acknowledged his eternal dependence on his Spirit companion, constituting the Spirit coruler of his universe domains and requiring all their creatures to pledge themselves in loyalty to the Spirit as they had to the Son; and there issued and went forth the final "Proclamation of Equality." Though he was the sovereign of this local universe, the Son published to the worlds the fact of the Spirit's equality with him in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. And this becomes the transcendent pattern for the family organization and government of even the lowly creatures of the worlds of space. This is, in deed and in truth, the high ideal of the family and the human institution of voluntary marriage. 369:01


Now Eve, our material mother of sorts, did indeed enjoy being "barefoot and pregnant". It was her pleasure and responsibility to reproduce. She bore 63 children the first 100 years in the Garden before the default, and 43 children after leaving the Garden. (834:04) They lived in simple brick dwellings while in the Garden, and just like primitive man 40,000 years ago, after leaving the Garden. Maybe she wasn't really barefoot, I don't know. But, she was pregnant a lot, you do the math! Her children were betrothed at age 18, had 2 years of instruction on marital responsibilities and then wed at 20. (835:02) I think this means that marriage and family, which means getting pregnant last I checked, was highly valued. In fact, the original schools at the time of the Planetary Prince stressed marriage and homemaking. (575:08 )

Quote:
If the women's movement has failed, it is in passing our history down to our children, and in teaching them that this is an ongoing process of improvement for the world. We have failed to teach them that each individual is responsible for putting forth effort that not only enhances their own life, but also paves the way for those that follow.


Quote:
"These changes have tended toward woman's liberation from domestic slavery and have brought about such a modification of her status that she now enjoys a degree of personal liberty and sex determination that practically equals man's. Once a woman's value consisted in her food-producing ability, but invention and wealth have enabled her to create a new world in which to function--spheres of grace and charm. Thus has industry won its unconscious and unintended fight for woman's social and economic emancipation. And again has evolution succeeded in doing what even revelation failed to accomplish." 937:05


If the women's movement fails, it will because of the lack of grace and charm.

Quote:
"In the ideals of pair marriage, woman has finally won recognition, dignity, independence, equality, and education; but will she prove worthy of all this new and unprecedented accomplishment? Will modern woman respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity? Today, in the twentieth century, woman is undergoing the crucial test of her long world existence!" 937:07


Quote:
"Woman is man's equal partner in race reproduction, hence just as important in the unfolding of racial evolution; therefore has evolution increasingly worked toward the realization of women's rights. But women's rights are by no means men's rights. Woman cannot thrive on man's rights any more than man can prosper on woman's rights.

"Each sex has its own distinctive sphere of existence, together with its own rights within that sphere. If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then, sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men.
Civilization never can obliterate the behavior gulf between the sexes. From age to age the mores change, but instinct never. Innate maternal affection will never permit emancipated woman to become man's serious rival in industry. Forever each sex will remain supreme in its own domain, domains determined by biologic differentiation and by mental dissimilarity.
Each sex will always have its own special sphere, albeit they will ever and anon overlap. Only socially will men and women compete on equal terms." 938:01-04


iris


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:51 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Well, Ray...even though I was a little disappointed in your reaction to what I wrote, I'm not really surprised. Although I must admit that I was "caught off guard" at your closing condescending remark. It has been a long time since this ploy has been used on me...it's obviously still in use.

For the record, I wasn't attacking you or your own reality. But you are coming from a completely different living and biological mind set.

What reason would there be for you to understand something you didn't experience? None.

What reason would there be for you to take the posture of defense? Don't have a clue. I wasn't the one that opened up this topic.

Also, I didn't leave out the men who stood shoulder to shoulder with us during that period either...re-read please.

What I described was, in fact, a reality for many other people. All did not live in your world, nor should those that lived a different reality be negated or ridiculed if it was different from yours. I believe we each hold a piece of the truth, even if some are uncomfortable with looking at that truth.

I stand by what I wrote and am grateful to have been a small part of our struggle for the progression for all human beings on this planet. And I'm still at it....even if it makes others a little uncomfortable. Change only comes when the discomfort becomes too great.

Peace
Jo

....a growing segment of women and men were being upstepped to a higher level awareness. Dramatic and dangerous stands were taking place in the homes, on the streets, in the workplaces, in our legislature....all over our country and into other countries.

Believe it not, this really did happen! And thankfully the UB confirms that it is continuing to happen....all over this glorious planet!

One more thing, Ray...
...what I wrote was mainly directed to women. You read it from a male perspective so it may very well have come across to you as an attack. I have no doubt that some women who read this will also take offense. They were the ones I was addressing.

Rest easy.
It will continue to unfold in spite of our perceptions, mine included.


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