Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:34 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
Posts: 356
Location: North Dakota
At the end of the first paper presented as the Urantia Revelation, we read the following astounding statement. “[Presented by a Divine Counsellor, a member of a group of celestial personalities assigned by the Ancients of Days on Uversa, the headquarters of the seventh superuniverse, to supervise those portions of this forthcoming revelation which have to do with affairs beyond the borders of the local universe of Nebadon. I am commissioned to sponsor those papers portraying the nature and attributes of God because I represent the highest source of information available for such a purpose on any inhabited world. I have served as a Divine Counsellor in all seven of the superuniverses and have long resided at the Paradise center of all things. Many times have I enjoyed the supreme pleasure of a sojourn in the immediate personal presence of the Universal Father. I portray the reality and truth of the Father’s nature and attributes with unchallengeable authority; I know whereof I speak.]” The Urantia Book, Paper 1 Section 7 Paragraph 9.

Through this statement alone the Urantia Book begins a presentation to humanity of a challenge of celestial proportions. By this alone, we are challenged individually and collectively as a planetary society, to comprehend a new awareness of the nature of creation. We are to do this not as citizens of a blue/green orb floating in a vast lifeless space, but as a member of a highly organized and structured material and Celestial Universe and from the perspective of Celestial individuals from that Universe. These individuals are personally conscious of our place in this vast cosmos, as well as their place and function in the hierarchy of the Celestial Universe. Though we are not the first generation in the history of our planet to be introduced to these truths, we are the first to be given the details in what is essentially encyclopedic format.

So monumental is the task of understanding this reference book, only a few brave human beings have tried it out. Sometimes I feel like an ant crawling on a giant sugar cube attempting to devour it granule upon granule while hoping myself adequate to the task. I seem to have an amazingly ability to self-congratulate, believing I am mastering the comprehension and understanding of this book. I don’t expect I am alone in this. However, within this isolated group of adventurers, there is a confusion and argumentation belying our self-proclaimed status as master sugar eaters. Effectively I/we have become drunk on sugar. We know the book’s teachings but we have allowed ourselves the privilege of thinking our knowledge is equal to our application of these truths. We are intellectuals attempting to identify intellectual understanding as synonymous with spiritual experience. This tends to allow me to place myself as intellectually equal to the author’s declarations. I am not! Consequently, the sugar has inebriated me and it is unattractive to observers, I have found. My confession here is that I notice others are not attracted to me as a result of my spiritual fruit; in fact they seem to be repelled.

Further, as I have become thus inebriated, I find myself challenged with an alternate view of reality, one which I am unable to share with the world at large to any significant degree. Am I seeing this alternative because I am sugar drunk or is it our new reality? Some may even be prideful enough to allow themselves to think they are doing all they can, that God expects no more from us than we are doing and that it is the world which is unwilling. I believe the world is screaming for help and we won’t respond. This picture is validated by the fact that mainstream thinking planet wide seems to be willfully sugar averse, choosing to avoid the book and any information presented by it as if it were poison. To them it is. It is poison intended to obliterate the evil of self from our lives. In a world of self-focus nothing could be more antithetical. So, while the Revelation is presented in abundant love and grace, it cuts away our selfish nonsense with impunity; at least it has that potential, if we let it; if we follow its guidance. It is this personal revolution in our persons which the world is clamoring for and doesn’t see, yet. But we can’t reveal what we won’t endure. Are we thinking about this book in the wrong way? I suggest we may be. Instead of using it simply to fill our minds with the Celestial reality of Urantia knowledge, we might turn our gaze inward and use it to challenge the man in the mirror; challenge that is to adhere to the Celestial value standards we are discovering. We can do that if we empty ourselves of self-willed direction. The following statement is not easy to appreciate, but it must be accepted.

“For example: The human mind would ordinarily crave to approach the cosmic philosophy portrayed in these revelations by proceeding from the simple and the finite to the complex and the infinite, from human origins to divine destinies. But that path does not lead to spiritual wisdom. Such a procedure is the easiest path to a certain from of genetic knowledge, but at best it can only reveal man’s origin; it reveals little or nothing about his divine destiny.” The Urantia Book, Paper 19 Section 1 Paragraph 5.

Planetary civilization rests somewhat uncomfortably on a wide variation of origin myths. Western civilization on a loose appreciation of the Genesis creation story, though scientific discoveries are chipping away at the credibility of that even within the church communities. Eastern civilization rests mainly on science or a number of etiological explanations; something from nothing; something from chaos; something from others. In either case, the average individual has no well-defined philosophy of creation beyond these variants. Go to the streets to ask passersby what creation means to them to see that I am right.

Then along comes the Urantia Revelation and unknowable becomes knowable as mankind is confronted with the Celestial version of truth. Such audacity these Celestials exhibit when they provide answers like this. How dare they! But they don’t stop with origins. They reveal destiny as well and go on to explain the path from the beginning to the never-to-end. But do we want to know what we don’t? What kind of adjustments in our living practices will we have to make if we allow the veil to be lifted and we find ourselves face to face with irrefutable facts? I am reminded of Hebrews 10:31, “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” When I am face to face with a realization of God’s truth, especially a major one, all the courage I can muster is needed to make such a decision, to realize it and place my faith in it. When the act of God is so overt as to eliminate the realization process leading to the decision, as in this Epochal Revelation, I am undone. I must face the truth that the path to reality is not of my design. This brings me to the next quotation from the Papers.

“All religions teach the worship of Deity and some doctrine of human salvation. The Buddhist religion promises salvation from suffering, unending peace; the Jewish religion promises salvation from difficulties, prosperity predicated on righteousness; the Greek religion promised salvation from disharmony, ugliness, by the realization of beauty; Christianity promises salvation from sin, sanctity; Mohammedanism provides deliverance from the rigorous moral standards of Judaism and Christianity. The religion of Jesus is salvation from self, deliverance from the evils of creature isolation in time and in eternity.” The Urantia Book, Paper 5 Section 4 Paragraph 5

“The religion of Jesus is salvation from self”.

In my view, this is one of the most profound statements in the entire Urantia Papers. In a self-seeking world, one that upholds self-fulfillment above all else, to proclaim the opposite is a task sure to find objection. But, what the world needs is to see our personal transformation of this salvation from self. Transferring our identity from unknown to known, from self-identification to spirit identification; this is “deliverance from the evils of creature isolation in time and in eternity.” And it is no small task. It is simple but it is not easy.

The religion of Jesus is salvation from self! Seriously! Are we to understand by this that ‘self’ is our objet de mépris, our object of scorn? The philosophical implications of this are so profound as to undermine our entire concept of reality. How can this be? Must we become something other than ourselves to comprehend what being alive truly means? Can this mean that we are not to fulfill the humanist manifesto to be all we can be, to do all we can do, and to fully become ourselves by achieving the full measure of our abilities; to live life to the fullest by doing our own thing? Is this the deep mystery that we all secretly seek to realize and view from the other side? I believe it is. This is the true meaning of Jesus’ proclamation that the Kingdom is within us. All this Revelation is only truly valuable as we internalize it, as we realize it within us.

Freedom from the struggle to be right; freedom from the demand to know what we don’t; freedom from the challenge to compete with each other over nonsensical issues; freedom from the pressure to achieve a better world; freedom from fear that we will not be adequate; freedom from the embarrassment of failure, these are the foundations of our rebirth in spiritual reality. It is these issues and many more, we long for freedom from while we endeavor to claim freedom within. But humans make poor life guides, at least I know I do. I can’t even guide myself well, yet I know of nobody who could guide me better than me, or so I think. How can I be expected to guide anyone else at all? My only solution is to renounce my own selfish designs on my life and succumb to the humbling guidance of God within. How simple to say and how hard to do.

So, we find ourselves with a real challenge. We know the truth of our Celestial Universe, the Fifth Epochal Revelation clarifies that. We know the reality of spirit, the reality of God within us, our interactive faith provides validation of that. We know intellectually what we are taught in this amazing gift to the planet yet we apparently get it wrong. At least I know I do. The expectation I identify with is in the following.

“The time is ripe to witness the figurative resurrection of the human Jesus from his burial tomb amidst the theological traditions and the religious dogmas of nineteen centuries. Jesus of Nazareth must not be longer sacrificed to even the splendid concept of the glorified Christ. What a transcendent service if, through this revelation, the Son of Man should be recovered from the tomb of traditional theology and be presented as the living Jesus to the church that bears his name, and to all other religions.” The Urantia Book, Paper 196 Section 1 Paragraph 2.

So, maybe my last essay, “How Much is Enough?” is answered differently than I had anticipated. The discovery of the “living Jesus” will happen. It hasn’t happened yet, at least not in my experience. My own experience tells me it will happen when I truly choose to be real with God rather than attempting to simply be right about him.

For the last several months I have repeatedly offered my thoughts in the form of essays for a couple of reasons. First, I did not want to engage this forum in another argumentative conversation about who reads the Urantia Book more correctly or some other nonsensical challenge. Secondly, I was led by God to reveal my personal struggle to realize his guidance in relation to these issues I have expounded upon. I knew I would be challenged by some and I thought I would be ignored by many. For the most part I have no idea what the value of these essays is to anyone, and I don’t expect to. I do hope and pray my struggles have revealed something of value to others as they seek God. My great desire is to fulfill the admonition in 196:1.2. That can only be done as I discover the actuality of the potential within me, us, all of us. That potential is in my self-controlled will, the will of my personal self, the will that seeks the reality of conscious identification with God but seems to do everything it can to avoid such a meeting. Adopting righteousness is eradicating self. Salvation from self is profound stuff.

Jim


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4677
Jim George wrote:
“All religions teach the worship of Deity and some doctrine of human salvation. The Buddhist religion promises salvation from suffering, unending peace; the Jewish religion promises salvation from difficulties, prosperity predicated on righteousness; the Greek religion promised salvation from disharmony, ugliness, by the realization of beauty; Christianity promises salvation from sin, sanctity; Mohammedanism provides deliverance from the rigorous moral standards of Judaism and Christianity. The religion of Jesus is salvation from self, deliverance from the evils of creature isolation in time and in eternity.” The Urantia Book, Paper 5 Section 4 Paragraph 5

“The religion of Jesus is salvation from self”.

In my view, this is one of the most profound statements in the entire Urantia Papers. In a self-seeking world, one that upholds self-fulfillment above all else, to proclaim the opposite is a task sure to find objection. But, what the world needs is to see our personal transformation of this salvation from self. Transferring our identity from unknown to known, from self-identification to spirit identification; this is “deliverance from the evils of creature isolation in time and in eternity.” And it is no small task. It is simple but it is not easy.

The religion of Jesus is salvation from self! Seriously! Are we to understand by this that ‘self’ is our objet de mépris, our object of scorn? The philosophical implications of this are so profound as to undermine our entire concept of reality. How can this be? Must we become something other than ourselves to comprehend what being alive truly means? Can this mean that we are not to fulfill the humanist manifesto to be all we can be, to do all we can do, and to fully become ourselves by achieving the full measure of our abilities; to live life to the fullest by doing our own thing? Is this the deep mystery that we all secretly seek to realize and view from the other side? I believe it is. This is the true meaning of Jesus’ proclamation that the Kingdom is within us. All this Revelation is only truly valuable as we internalize it, as we realize it within us.

My great desire is to fulfill the admonition in 196:1.2. That can only be done as I discover the actuality of the potential within me, us, all of us. That potential is in my self-controlled will, the will of my personal self, the will that seeks the reality of conscious identification with God but seems to do everything it can to avoid such a meeting. Adopting righteousness is eradicating self. Salvation from self is profound stuff.

Jim


Thank you Jim for your thoughtful and very personal reflections on the value of the Revelation and the meanings you have discovered for yourself in the text you posted.

My apologies for shortening and editing your post but I hope to focus on specific elements of your perspective regarding "salvation from self". Your essay has prompted much reflection and prayerful consideration of the universe realities presented in the UB and the personal embrace of truth by religious experience.

Reality and truth present paradox to the mortal mind. Certainly does the UB also present such and so too did the Master teach by presenting truths which require illumination and discernment and wisdom to appreciate.

For example..."salvation from self"...does not mean that selfhood is evil or sinful or unimportant or undesirable. I don't think selfhood is an "object of scorn". And certainly we are not to be or "become something other than ourselves".

Selfhood is a gift from God and is celebrated throughout rhe universe of universes. The gifts of personality and mind and freewill are sacred gifts to create an endless number of unique experiences and expressions of selfhood.

Salvation from self means, to me, to be saved from the unhappiness and isolation of the limitations of self importance and selfishness and choosing to be disconnected from the Spirit within.

The faith of Jesus shows us the WAY of personal religious experience and true salvation. And knowledge and understanding and the pursuit of those are sacred and deliver both meaning and value to all beings! Knowledge is no vice Jim. And neither is the study of the Papers.

By the way, the UB teaches that Jesus used the concept and term "Kingdom" in 5 different and distinct ways. The kingdom within, or the relationship between selfhood and Deity, is but one of those 5 teachings. But that's for another discussion perhaps!

101:6.7 (1112.3) Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth—universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds.

101:6.8 (1112.4) The teachings of Jesus constituted the first Urantian religion which so fully embraced a harmonious co-ordination of knowledge, wisdom, faith, truth, and love as completely and simultaneously to provide temporal tranquillity, intellectual certainty, moral enlightenment, philosophic stability, ethical sensitivity, God-consciousness, and the positive assurance of personal survival. The faith of Jesus pointed the way to finality of human salvation, to the ultimate of mortal universe attainment, since it provided for:

101:6.9 (1112.5) 1. Salvation from material fetters in the personal realization of sonship with God, who is spirit.

101:6.10 (1112.6) 2. Salvation from intellectual bondage: man shall know the truth, and the truth shall set him free.

101:6.11 (1112.7) 3. Salvation from spiritual blindness, the human realization of the fraternity of mortal beings and the morontian awareness of the brotherhood of all universe creatures; the service-discovery of spiritual reality and the ministry-revelation of the goodness of spirit values.

101:6.12 (1113.1) 4. Salvation from incompleteness of self through the attainment of the spirit levels of the universe and through the eventual realization of the harmony of Havona and the perfection of Paradise.

101:6.13 (1113.2) 5. Salvation from self, deliverance from the limitations of self-consciousness through the attainment of the cosmic levels of the Supreme Mind and by co-ordination with the attainments of all other self-conscious beings.

101:6.14 (1113.3) 6. Salvation from time, the achievement of an eternal life of unending progression in God-recognition and God-service.

101:6.15 (1113.4) 7. Salvation from the finite, the perfected oneness with Deity in and through the Supreme by which the creature attempts the transcendental discovery of the Ultimate on the postfinaliter levels of the absonite.

101:6.16 (1113.5) Such a sevenfold salvation is the equivalent of the completeness and perfection of the realization of the ultimate experience of the Universal Father. And all this, in potential, is contained within the reality of the faith of the human experience of religion. And it can be so contained since the faith of Jesus was nourished by, and was revelatory of, even realities beyond the ultimate; the faith of Jesus approached the status of a universe absolute in so far as such is possible of manifestation in the evolving cosmos of time and space.

101:6.17 (1113.6) Through the appropriation of the faith of Jesus, mortal man can foretaste in time the realities of eternity. Jesus made the discovery, in human experience, of the Final Father, and his brothers in the flesh of mortal life can follow him along this same experience of Father discovery. They can even attain, as they are, the same satisfaction in this experience with the Father as did Jesus as he was. New potentials were actualized in the universe of Nebadon consequent upon the terminal bestowal of Michael, and one of these was the new illumination of the path of eternity that leads to the Father of all, and which can be traversed even by the mortals of material flesh and blood in the initial life on the planets of space. Jesus was and is the new and living way whereby man can come into the divine inheritance which the Father has decreed shall be his for but the asking. In Jesus there is abundantly demonstrated both the beginnings and endings of the faith experience of humanity, even of divine humanity.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:09 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1170
Location: Denver CO
Jim, thank you for this essay. Your thoughts have a resonance in me and I'd like to comment on one or two of them.

I, too, often feel as though I don't do enough with the gift of this revelation to help a struggling world. Most times, it's all I can do to maintain my own equilibrium. But the view we are given - of this sweeping reality of the vast spiritual civilization that permeates the universe - is so comforting, so inspiring. Would that everyone could enjoy it as I do!

The world is hungry, but I wonder if most folks would realize that this is the food that would feed their longings, or that most would even recognize this spiritual food when it is presented to them. In the end, this kind of truth can only be fed to those who truly do recognize it when they see it. I was one of the lucky ones who did recognize it. And I have tried over the years to fashion my personal life to correspond to these life-giving teachings. AND to somehow translate what I learn from them into my dealings with others, with a sincere heart. But, I feel that whether I succeed or not is God's business, not mine. I can't carry the burden of failure, as long as I feel I am doing the best I can.

Quote:
“The religion of Jesus is salvation from self”.

In my view, this is one of the most profound statements in the entire Urantia Papers.


This is my view, also. When I first read these words in The Urantia Book, it was something of an echo from my Catholic upbringing. It - and all of those "salvation from" statements stirred my soul so deeply, and yet it had none of the judgment of my former teaching. But that salvation from self is also salvation from "the limitations of self-consciousness," too. This implies willing self-forgetfulness, in my view.

Quote:
The discovery of the “living Jesus” will happen. It hasn’t happened yet, at least not in my experience. My own experience tells me it will happen when I truly choose to be real with God rather than attempting to simply be right about him.


I truly resonate with this. The development of that intimate personal relationship with God - being truly real with God - is so sublime and such a life-changing effort. I cannot ever teach that which I have not really internalized as my own. And that process of getting real with God is not something that I can always do easily or well as yet. It has taken me many years to even really grasp the possibilities of such a progressive relationship. But I soldier on in my inept way, wishing that I could somehow change the world with what I think I know. But for now, I can only change and refine myself and try to be the best ambassador of the kingdom that I can be with what I do have.

Don't be too hard on yourself. We are all just little children, and I know that our spiritual parents understand that very well. It's what we strive to do that is the most important thing, and that our overall direction is God-ward. "Progress, not perfection."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4677
Jim - I appreciate your views and opinions regarding how our personal religious experience changes our perspective and our priorities and our philosophy of living. My understanding is that we will remain curious and need new and more knowledge our entire career in the universes of time.

Perfection requires perfecting for those beings in time who gain wisdom by experience and acquired knowledge... so the "struggle to be right" is noble and an inherent part of our nature...as designed, planned, created, and nurtured by God. Wisdom only comes by this effort.

Likewise..."the demand to know what we don't" is in our DNA and also a function of mind and the Spirit's mind ministry. The universes of time are one giant, endless university according to the Papers where the quest to know what we don't is not only encouraged but is required. Indeed, self satisfaction about one's knowledge is called prejudice and ignorance in the UB and is described as mind poison and the biggest obstacle to spiritual progress.

All mortals are under pressue to do better and know more and build a better world and society. It is this very urge that drives the evolutionary struggles and progressive results of the each creating the whole and defines the mortal epochs and the collective journey toward Light and Life on this world and universe.

As I understand it, the Supreme works to reflect this collective evolutionary result and momentum of evolutionary progress in the universes of time and experiential wisdom.



14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time.

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony—these traits inherent in evolving human nature—were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity—the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration—is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.

8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4677
More on the inspiring nobility of self-hood or the personality, mind, and freewill mortal identity, as created and endowed and encircuired by Deity.

Paper 5 actually celebrates mortal self-hood!!

5:4.3 (67.1) God is not only the determiner of destiny; he is man’s eternal destination. All nonreligious human activities seek to bend the universe to the distorting service of self; the truly religious individual seeks to identify the self with the universe and then to dedicate the activities of this unified self to the service of the universe family of fellow beings, human and superhuman.

5:6.7 (71.2) The material self has personality and identity, temporal identity; the prepersonal spirit Adjuster also has identity, eternal identity. This material personality and this spirit prepersonality are capable of so uniting their creative attributes as to bring into existence the surviving identity of the immortal soul.

5:6.8 (71.3) Having thus provided for the growth of the immortal soul and having liberated man’s inner self from the fetters of absolute dependence on antecedent causation, the Father stands aside. Now, man having thus been liberated from the fetters of causation response, at least as pertains to eternal destiny, and provision having been made for the growth of the immortal self, the soul, it remains for man himself to will the creation or to inhibit the creation of this surviving and eternal self which is his for the choosing. No other being, force, creator, or agency in all the wide universe of universes can interfere to any degree with the absolute sovereignty of the mortal free will, as it operates within the realms of choice, regarding the eternal destiny of the personality of the choosing mortal. As pertains to eternal survival, God has decreed the sovereignty of the material and mortal will, and that decree is absolute.

5:6.9 (71.4) The bestowal of creature personality confers relative liberation from slavish response to antecedent causation, and the personalities of all such moral beings, evolutionary or otherwise, are centered in the personality of the Universal Father. They are ever drawn towards his Paradise presence by that kinship of being which constitutes the vast and universal family circle and fraternal circuit of the eternal God. There is a kinship of divine spontaneity in all personality.

5:6.10 (71.5) The personality circuit of the universe of universes is centered in the person of the Universal Father, and the Paradise Father is personally conscious of, and in personal touch with, all personalities of all levels of self-conscious existence. And this personality consciousness of all creation exists independently of the mission of the Thought Adjusters.

5:6.11 (71.6) As all gravity is circuited in the Isle of Paradise, as all mind is circuited in the Conjoint Actor and all spirit in the Eternal Son, so is all personality circuited in the personal presence of the Universal Father, and this circuit unerringly transmits the worship of all personalities to the Original and Eternal Personality.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Salvation from Self
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1419
And let's not forget this LOL

3:5.13
Is unselfishness—the spirit of self-forgetfulness—desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google Feedfetcher


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group