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 Post subject: ...suicide...
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I posted a prayer request for my father on Sept. 02, 2004 ,
"Please pray for my Father's health, emotions, and FAITH....". I thank you all who gave him a place in your thoughts and prayers. Unfortunately, on January 09, 2005, my dad took his life. It's been six months and I still don't know how to accept or understand it. I'd appreciate any words of advice you can give me. I also have one question, "Can suicide be a part of God's plan?"


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God, like any Father, loves his kids; even when they do what is forbidden. God sees us not in our frail current condition, but as we will eventually become; perfect, even as He is perfect. This temporary mortal vehicle we are given, was never meant to carry us all the way. No, we are not to abuse it, but then again its more like your Dad wrecked the family car than did any permanent damage. God would no more stop loving one of his children than you would, and certainly not over something that can be rectified. We all have a place in God’s plan. But each of us is unique, and so will our part we play reflect that uniqueness. We are all still just children, and have barely begun our eternal adventure with Father. Your Dad is just a step or two in front of you, and you will soon be sharing that adventure with him as you both continue on your paths to Paradise. :wink:

Bro Dave
P.S. I really like your photo! :smile:

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Hi There,
I dont think suicide is part of Gods Plan for us but I think he understands pain & suffering so dont worry to much.
I think your dad is surrounded by love from you & our Heavenly Parents.
May You feel that love returned & rest knowing your dad is safe.

Christian


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 Post subject: Suicide
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Hello Bro Burgo:

Long time no see my friend. It's good to hear from ya! I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your Father.

I cannot answer your question Burgo. My ex-wife committed suicide 31/2 years ago and I still ask the same questions that you do. I am certain of one thing however, our Heavenly Father is all wise, loving, forgiving and his #1 care is for his creation. I want to believe that my ex-wife will resurrect and another shot at getting it right on the next step of her journey. I am not her judge and I don't know if she will or not. However I believe according to the UB teachings that no matter what her sufferings have ended.

I'll say a prayer for you my friend 8)

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 Post subject: My Condolences
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I'm sorry your father took his life. I certainly hope you are doing okay. I would like for you to understand your pain can only heal in time.
I'm writing because I do understand how it feels to have the feeling of taking your own life. Most people who have done this have had problems in their life. They have never let all the trauma go in their life. Bad things happen to us but we must learn to go ahead to move forward. It seems most people who suffer from depression is because they have not found a way of letting go of the hurt and pain. People who have been hurt all of their life seem to get into the habit of hurting themselves. For instance, when I was in an abusive relationship, instead of calling the police and sending the guy to jail, I always blamed myself for his abuse towards me. When so much bad has happened in your life you can't find the light. This is also difficult for me as well. I try however each and everyday to find happiness. This is a constant job. I have tried to kill myself and afterwards I felt really bad. It was at this time I realized I was no better than the people who have hurt me. Therefore, I understand and know I must try each day to make things better for myself. I'm really sorry your father completed his task in this way. However, he was sad and he was probably sad even from childhood and rejected by a lot of people. Most people committe suicide because they have no support from friends or relative. However, understand he is free now from all the pain and suffering.

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Being godly is the hardest thing to do. I believe we must strive because our faith is tested daily even the simpliest thing which can upset you is a test of your faith. I believe we must always strive to make the right decision.


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Well stated Vwilliams675. I see you just joined our merry band, so WELCOME! :smile:

We look forward to getting to know a little more about you, and your path back to Father. Sounds like it was not all fun... but that's what makes it so valuable. (Nobody ever learned anything from "easy". :? )

Have you read any of the UB? If so, we always love hearing the strory of how it found you. :wink:

Take care,
Bro Dave

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Dear Aguerowens,

Allow me to offer you my deepest sympathy. Losing a loved one is hard enough on this most difficult planet, losing one because that person deliberately chose to go, is just awful. I have known several people who have killed themselves and I have thought about suicide a lot, and especially from the perspective of the teachings of The Urantia Book.

Human suffering can be so severe on this world and nobody can really judge how difficult life has become for someone else. When someone is really suffering, a single day, can seem like an eternity. Mental and emotional anguish can be every bit as bad a physical pain. And pain, whether it's of the body, the mind or the spirit, will always lead to pain and imbalance in the rest of the human system as a whole.

I believe that suicide is caused by some form of suffering. Every person has a limit to what they can endure. Some people kill themselves because they just can't bear the suffering anymore and they want to end their pain. Sometimes people have an unselfish motivation for suicide, thinking that others will be better off without them. This is seen often with people who have severe, fatal or chronic illnesses that their loved ones have to cope with. They feel that they are a burden to the ones they love and this makes their illness even more unbearable. Some people lay down without ever even trying to fight, they just have no strength of character. They throw away God's gift of life like it was just so much garbage. Some people, like teenagers, don't have the experience to know that tomorrow will likely be a better day. They don't realize that the storms of life can be weathered and that, by nature, storms come and pass. They don't know that each storm we survive makes us stronger and more able to weather future storms. They can't see light at the end of the tunnel and so they foolishly chose a permanent solution to a temporary problem. God takes into consideration all of these causes and motivations and so many more, as unique as each individual life is unique. God takes all things into consideration, every episode of life, every thought of mind. God is truly all knowing. He knows all of the past, present and future. We can absolutely trust that God is fair in his judgements.

Is suicide God's will? I don't think so. As a parent, I can't imagine that God wants his children to chose to quit. I think God wants us to persevere through all of the storms, using faith, courage, hope, strength, dignity and grace. However, God also loves and understands our weakness and what causes it. He is willing that none should perish. The salvation of our soul is his primary concern. God is not looking for a reason to disqualify us from eternal life, but rather is looking for every possible way to salvage each and every human life and potential. What good parent easily gives up on his children? God as a perfect parent will not turn away from any soul who possesses even the faintest flicker of faith in him.

Following are a few comforting quotes from the UB. Please note that use of the term "Adjuster" refers to a fragment of God's infinite perfection that lives within each human being and ever guides us to find God and be like him.
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It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, "for the Father himself loves you." It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God's love is universal; "whosoever will may come." He would "have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth." He is "not willing that any should perish." P.39

The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do.P.557

Nothing of survival value is ever lost in all the wide universe. P.1197

To the condemned criminal he (Jesus) said at the last hour: "My brother, you have fallen on evil times. You lost your way; you became entangled in the meshes of crime. From talking to you, I well know you did not plan to do the thing which is about to cost you your temporal life. But you did do this evil, and your fellows have adjudged you guilty; they have determined that you shall die. You or I may not deny the state this right of self-defense in the manner of its own choosing. There seems to be no way of humanly escaping the penalty of your wrongdoing. Your fellows must judge you by what you did, but there is a Judge to whom you may appeal for forgiveness, and who will judge you by your real motives and better intentions. P.1475

Jesus said: "If a kindhearted man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, does he not immediately leave the ninety and nine and go out in search of the one that has gone astray? And if he is a good shepherd, will he not keep up his quest for the lost sheep until he finds it? And then, when the shepherd has found his lost sheep, he lays it over his shoulder and, going home rejoicing, calls to his friends and neighbors, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' I declare that there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety and nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Even so, it is not the will of my Father in heaven that one of these little ones should go astray, much less that they should perish. In your religion God may receive repentant sinners; in the gospel of the kingdom the Father goes forth to find them even before they have seriously thought of repentance. P.1762

My prayers for peace and understanding around this terrible event in your life go out for you. Even though life is often unbearable here, we can take comfort in knowing that all is well in the universe. Be of good cheer.

Blessings always.....Paula


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It is always well to remember that God loves our loved ones more than we. So he feels our sadness at our loss. However, that also means that we who try to help our loved ones see the light here on earth, are but a "glimpse" of what the heavens will be like to bring their soul back into the light.

I have fought suicide for most of my life. And i will tell you i have thought of it much here recently also. I never say never, and i judge no one else who has taken their own life. Because i know the pain in life that can bring you to that point or decision. Thankfully i have always found my strength and faith in God and i continue on, though it seems never ending in struggle.

What i know is that God loves me. He loves me each day that i wake up and continue to face the day ahead. But if the day came when i could no longer do that., or if within a moment i lost all strength to hold on, in his arms would i fall.

Of course it is better if we can face our problems and difficulties in life here with the faith in God, and see this life through. But if we don't, I believe God will still be there. God will love and care for that soul, as the angelic beings will. And after he/she is consoled I believe they continue on. Somehow - someway to grow, and rise above where they chose to stop in this world.

I never grieve for the 'future" of the soul of someone who took their own life, i only grieve that they couldn't find a way to face it here and now.

I believe our lives are our cross to carry in this world, and I believe just as Jesus carried it in faith, so should we. And i promise to God nearly everyday to continue to pick that cross up and carry it. No matter how hard it gets.

But God loves me with an unending love. And he has all eternity to help me learn to carry that cross, should I ever put it down to early.

Though suicide is not a plan of God, God has a plan for suicide. May we all find the strength to face each day, no matter what comes our way.

Blessings
Angel


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To see the last post on here was from myself only makes me realize how hard life can be.

I am facing a very hard challenge and see no light in the next day. I see no worth in my life, and i feel I am more a burden than a blessing to my own family. I suffer great physical pain, and it has finally taken an emotional blow to me and I am down.

I realize alot have written that they look up to me, and that makes me even more ashamed on one hand to feel suicidal, but I am no different than anyone. I am human. I have been knocked to the ground, and though i keep swinging daily, I do not, nor can find the strength to completely stand up again.

I have not lost my faith, just my endurance, and i just don't know how to continue on. Though God is still there, and I am motivated by my angels everyday to continue, I am exhausted. I do not fear punishment of suicide, but i want to fulfill this life and see it through as i know it is God's will for me. But on the other hand, the way I live now, is no way to live in my eyes. Please pray for me. Knowing the way, and doing it are 2 seperate things.

I have not given up completely yet, but i know I lack the mental clarity and physical, emotional, and spiritual strenght to continue on for much longer.

I strive daily to see another day through, and i want to succeed. Please pray that God gives me what i need to win this battle.
Angel

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The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"


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Angel, my heart aches for you. It aches because I understand. My recent challenges have not been physical like yours but similarly painful, confusing, and beyond my ability to deal with; one feels so lost and alone at times. It is still difficult. It still hurts. I prayed for help and received it. It was not the answer I prayed for yet it is even more satisfying in many ways. I still don't understand why I have to endure it - so many other alternatives and outcomes were possible. It will pass in time I believe but enduring it until a more complete solution is required. My children, who do not really understand what I've been going through, will no doubt be happy that I endure and continue to be a presence in their life. I know my wife understands - she endures it with me. Continue your struggle dear one. If He brought you to this struggle He will bring you through this struggle. Pray in Faith that you will receive guidance and help - the guidance will come. Expect surprises! Expect relief in a manner unexpected! Open yourself to help from all sources that spirit may send your way. Count your blessings in the midst of these challenges that deflect your attention from these very blessings. Hug yourself deep and often. Know you are not alone. Know that you are loved. Continue on. Your rewards are deserved. Your transgressions forgiven. Your love is needed and appreciated by those close to you. My love to you and yours.
All the best, Ray


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Thanks for replying Ray.

I realize that because i "Know" the answers sometimes means I don't seek out support when i need it. The past day or so has been better because i have been seeking out the help of others who struggle also.
I know it's not going to make it all go away, but i must always try to do what i can.

When my mother was near passing, we all had "our" last talks with her. She was speaking of something else in my life at the time, but i realize her last advice is good for this also. She said "Don't give up until you're sure you've done everything you can". Because she said that, i have used it for every trial since then, and i find there is always something else i can try. And to not try it leaves me knowing i would let her down.

But this is a good day also. It's easier to see the answers than on the difficult days.

Anyways, thanks for replying and reaching out. I know i come to this board with the same woes all the time, but that's my life right now. No worries though, my angels are good at guiding me --- and i have the peace of knowing God will love me no matter what happens.

Blessings To Everyone
Angel

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''The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do"

The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"


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Angel - Never feel that because you know , that reaching out in times of need , is not something you should not do . We are all brothers and sisters , and have all been in need of support as well as helping each other .

You have helped me and so many others in each of their times and seasons of trials . We all at times can use that shoulder to lean on or that ear to just listen . Good and bad days come and go , for all , yet i find solice in each days surprises of the little things .

Your Mothers words of advice were wise words of wisdom for the ages . And YES your Angels are guideing you .... and they will never let you down .... and when you see no footprints in the sand , that is when our LORD is carrying you .

I love YOU sister .....coop


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Angel, sorry, I missed your post. :( The rest of us can only try to imagine how difficult you day to day existance is. I wish I had some magic words or advice, but you are already incontact with the Master Advisor, so what is an amature to do...? I do remember you in prayer, and always ask for God's will for you to be done, because that's as good as it gets! I read a lesson the other day, and the teacher said that, even though we probably won't understand how, there were those in the Nazi concentration camps who managed to survive just by knowing thier reality lay in spirit, not the painful physical. And that knowledge allowed them to survive the worst that came thier way... :!: One day, you and I and the rest of the gang will be looking back here at this first experience, and realize how hard "context" is when your inside of it, and how different it all appears once you gain higher ground. Likewise, even the pain,(maybe especially the pain) during this time, will have served us the most in eternity.

The answer to every question is Love; I'm sending you mine.
Youir Bro,
Dave :wink:

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Last edited by Bro Dave on Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:11 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Thanks everyone.

I know i'm not the only one with problems. And Bro. Dave reminding us all of those who suffered in camps makes me ashamed to feel as i do.

The real suffering is the feeling of being alone. Not the pain itself. When friends and loved ones are near and supportive, the pain can be faced. I try to remind myself that I am learning so much by seeing each day through. The other day my youngest lost her first tooth. What a small but wonderous thing i would've missed if i had left to soon.

As with all suffering, the battle is within the mind and spirit. And though i know i would not be who i am without my life struggles sometimes i can't help but wish that everyone could be without suffering. And i would never wish someone else in my place.

And i've even said in prayers that if my suffering means someone else is spared than leave the pain with me. To be honest my problem right now is with selfishness.

Things were okay for awhile, when i first got on the board and was really beginning to hurt. But now a year later i see it's breaking through to some "hidden" places within my spirit. It is something i need to overcome and accept to be more like christ. Again, this is an okay day. Easier to see the good that can come out of it.

I believe that i'm not freed of this ailment because deep inside i want to learn to overcome it as i've done the rest of my life trials, instead of just being freed of it. And so i spiritually choose to keep it. Maybe when i learn what it is i need to i will be freed.

I know what a few of you face, but not all of you. And i would hope that if needed you would give me the chance to support you also.

And i appreciate more than i can say the time you take to give me words of support when i need it.
Blessings to all
Angel

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''The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do"

The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"


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Dear Angel,

You are in my thoughts everyday, and hoping for good times for you.
Here is a recent couple of statements of encouraging word, about pain, about the strength to endure, about the presense of our friends and fellows.

http://www.teamcircuits.com/TeaM+Boards/TML/27180.aspx

Love and Support,
Woody


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