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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Well, I AM interested in social/civil undertakings that will result in a strengthened community of God-responsive peers, guided by such ideals as will steer us toward light and life. I am not interested in religion being the purpose of it, however, because religion is a personal thing and no two people believe alike. Even though everyone involved ought to have a personal religion, one which manifests the fruits of the spirit, which is how we shall know one another.

Part of the problem is that so many of us know what we DON'T want but do not know for sure what we DO want because we have never had it, might not even recognize it if we saw it. Yet I do recognize that rules and guidelines are necessary in any social situation even though it might be like pulling teeth to get people to accept the restrictions and limitations imposed by any authority other than their own will. So diplomacy will be essential.

Thank you for responding.

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Grassroots Independent House-Churches:
Home-based participatory worship and service

Chaordic Organizational Design:
A different horse-and-cart; what it is

Research Group Overviews:
Setting Workgroup Goals

Brainstorm Proposals:
Have a great idea?

Library:
Reference files

REVERSION ACTIVITIES -
BREAK ROOM & PRAYER TIME:

Social Hour: [same as Sunday School]
Family Talk & Sharing

Praise & Prayer: [same activity as in a Church]
If we lift Him up...


EVOLVING ORGANIZATION:
SIX-LENS DEVELOPMENT -Coming to consensus thru 6 phases

Purpose/ Mission: [same as declared by a church]
Enduring & unifying goals

Principles/Ideals: [the same as found in a church declaration]
Shared spiritual & religious values

Members & Participants: [oh, definitely membership]
Stewards and Undecideds

Organizational Concepts: [Pope, Pastors, Laity]
Servant-leadership and equity distribution

Articles of Constitution: [a must for a church]
Non-profit status, legal responsibilities, & stable governance

Practices & Resources:
Sincere, joyful, self-forgetful, yet disciplined service-productivity


RESOURCE PRODUCTION COMMITTEES -
DEVELOPMENT and IMPLEMENTATION PLANNING: Service opportunities from vision to harvest

Philosophical Framework - resources

Servant-Leadership - resources

Functional Networking – resources

Professional & Laity led ministries - resources

Religious Education - resources

Sacred Music - resources

Flexible Symbol & Ritual - resources

Evangelism/Missions - resources

Ecumenism - resources

Community Service - resources

& More... - resources


I have highlighted everything in red that is found in an organized and institutionalized church.

It is utterly amazing how you can say these things do not comprise the structure and organization of a CHURCH (which you have renamed "House-Church). These things are exactly what makes up an organized church. The only thing you have left out, which I am sure will come later when you have your "membership", is a bank account.

Not sure who is going to be fooled by all of this, but this is exactly what the Revelators warned was "inevitable" and that it is inevitable because of people like you who insist on carrying on the mindset and repeating what Jesus tried so hard to bring us out of: institutionalized and organized religion.

Michael, how can you say you aren't trying to start a Church when the evidence is overwhelming that you are?

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Dear sister Kreneep,

I sense that there’s slim chance of dissuading you from your well-intended crusade, but I know that if we go in partnership with God all things are possible.

I’ll try to honor this site's mission by declining further drawn-out dissection of the outline of AMO research discussion that you’re so critical of. Would you mind being so respectful of TruthBook as well?

Aside from that specific outline for discussion (which has its own venue for cooperative research and development), I’ll suggest that you might enjoy employing your love of truth in a humble effort toward gaining a more balanced and broadened perspective vis a vis what a “house church” is.

If you’re willing to try that, perhaps this little snippet and this link will help. The web holds many, many related resources should you care to avail yourself.

In friendship,
MB
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House Church Basics -- Part 1-A: What Is Church?

Our first challenge in grasping what God intends church to be, is to stop looking at it through the lens of our background and through the lens of 2,000 years of “church” as a formal institution.

Dee Hock says:
"The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind, and creativity will instantly fill it."

So our first challenge is to de-program old definitions and wrestle with some accurate new ones.

Let’s start with a basic New Testament definition of church. The Greek word for “church” is “ekklesia” which simply refers to those who were "called out" for an assembly or meeting. It was a non-religious word. It just referred to a group of people. In this case, the group of people who were followers of Jesus.

It really is and must be that simple!

Church is not an organization, building, or meeting of any kind. It’s simply a group of people who follow Christ.

Church, in essence, is simply a collective group of followers.

Consider this definition of church:
A loose-knit network of Jesus followers who gather together to encourage each other in their spiritual life and who go out, moved by the Holy Spirit, sharing and demonstrating the Gospel.

http://www.simplechurchrevolution.com/

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Church is not an organization, building, or meeting of any kind. It’s simply a group of people who follow Christ.

Church, in essence, is simply a collective group of followers.

Consider this definition of church:
A loose-knit network of Jesus followers who gather together to encourage each other in their spiritual life and who go out, moved by the Holy Spirit, sharing and demonstrating the Gospel.


It seems to me, Michael, that you are the one who has missed the point of the above.

"Church is NOT an organization" which you have relentlessly put forth in your posts as being your agenda (the organizational part).

"Jesus followers" - The Urantia Book speaks specifically against organized religion and to follow Jesus is a life determination not an organization.

"Demonstrating the Gospel" - Living the teachings of Jesus, living the teachings and guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth, not organizing into a group with "Articles of Constitution", "professional laity led ministries" (to name a few).

In other words, I believe you might not be able to tell the difference between a "Church" and a simple gathering of believers who need no organization to be a living stone in the living temple of God.

The balance and the broadened perspective of which you speak is really no more than an agreement with your agenda. I prefer to be persuaded by the Spirit of Truth and the truth found in The Urantia Book which says:

    99:2.6 The religion of living experience finds no difficulty in keeping ahead of all these social developments and economic upheavals, amid which it ever functions as a moral stabilizer, social guide, and spiritual pilot. True religion carries over from one age to
    another the worth-while culture and that wisdom which is born of the experience
    of knowing God and striving to be like him.


    195.10.11 The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.

What you are doing or trying to accomplish is nothing less than a pseudo-church in the disguise of "house-groups" and mark my words, it will be a repeat of the inevitable history of an endeavor gone evil.

    99.6.3 But as religion becomes institutionalized, its power for good is curtailed, while the possibilities for evil are greatly multiplied. The dangers of formalized religion are: fixation of beliefs and crystallization of sentiments; accumulation of vested interests with increase of secularization; tendency to standardize and fossilize truth; diversion of religion from the service of God to the service of the church; inclination of leaders to become administrators instead of ministers; tendency to form sects and competitive divisions; establishment of oppressive ecclesiastical authority; creation of the aristocratic “chosen-people” attitude; fostering of false and exaggerated ideas of sacredness; the routinizing of religion and the petrification of worship; tendency to venerate the past while ignoring present demands; failure to make up-to-date interpretations of religion; entanglement with functions of secular institutions; it creates the evil discrimination of religious castes; it becomes an intolerant judge of orthodoxy; it fails to hold the interest of adventurous youth and gradually loses the saving message of the gospel of eternal salvation.

I do pray that there are those who instead of approaching God with intellectual understanding will see the grave error in repeating the same evils of the past and seek to have a relationship with God instead.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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I agree. Religion is a personal thing. Whereas the effects of religion are social. I would have not nearly so much trouble with a civil or social organization as I do with a church. The very word "church" is anathema to millions of people; it rules out temple and shrine and ashram and grassy knoll and draws the attention to Christianity, which has done more harm than good. To try and organize prayer and worship is asking for trouble. Everybody needs the freedom to believe as they choose, and if there should be a SPONTANEOUS outburst of song or praise, fine, but to organize it and orchestrate it is, imo, error repeating itself, as Kreneep points out.

My contemplations on this issue -- this seeming need some of us have to try to organize humanity somehow -- led me to the development of a prototype for a future society. Pick and choose your citizenry well, establish community goals, oversee these efforts and the results will create a brave new world. Every citizen should be allowed to worship God as they understand God, be allowed to enjoy their own culture and celebrate their own holidays. I would not exclude an Hispanic or a Muslim or a Jew or an athiest, as long as s/he manifested the fruits of the spirit and wanted to participate in our social paradigm.

My "future project" speaks more to the development of teamwork and community. But my project (that is to say my dreams, my ambitions, my vision) runs into criticism also -- people call it "socialist" or "communist" and there is something to be said for that but I believe it is a true democracy. "Adhocracy" might work, too. It is definitely anti-capitalist.

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Nothing objectionable to house-groups, coming together in fellowship. My objection is, as it has always been even in Christian gatherings, when we attempt to organize what, when, who, where, why and how instead of allowing the Spirit to move among us as He wishes, then we quench the will of God, the move of the Spirit, and spontaneity of our true and spiritual response to His Presence not only as individuals, but as a group as well.

When I see a list as long as the one Michael has given, I see only an agenda that negates the very core of spiritual progress in modern social and individual understanding of the direction God intends for mankind. The direction changes and we begin to revert to past, olden ways believing with all our minds that "this is the way, walk ye in it", when indeed, if we do "walk this way" it only leads us into the same religious form that Jesus intended to draw us away from.

I don't know why it is so difficult for people to recognize the organizational agenda that Michael puts forth and how it mirrors the making of an institutionalized religion. He can't see it because he seems to want to be in charge and this becomes dangerous as well. People who design an organizational agenda and invite followers of that agenda, are really saying, "Follow me, I am right and I know how God wants it."

Compare the things I highlighted in the above post and below and determine for yourselves as to whether they mirror an organization of Christian Church agenda:

    House-Churches:
    Home-based participatory worship and service

    Social Hour
    Praise & Prayer

    Purpose/ Mission
    Principles/Ideals

    Members & Participants
    Stewards and Undecideds

    Organizational Concepts
    Servant-leadership and equity distribution

    Articles of Constitution
    Non-profit status (money involved and exchanged as in an organized Church), legal responsibilities (making sure you have a license to operate as a Church and business entity), & stable governance (make sure you have a head of office)

    Servant-Leadership (pope, servants and laity)
    Functional Networking (make sure everyone is doing the same thing)
    Professional & Laity led ministries (youth groups, Sunday School, Men and Women groups engaged in a set study agenda)
    Religious Education (make sure everyone is believing what you believe)
    Sacred Music (usually a rigid schedule made out prior to services and practiced ahead)
    Flexible Symbol & Ritual (this is the beginnings of traditions and ceremonies)
    Evangelism/Missions (Missionaries, Foriegn Services based on the Church's beliefs)
    Ecumenism (make sure your beliefs are spread worldwide)
    Community Service (this is good, but it is usually based on selfish endeavors to draw people into your kingdom of errors)

The revelators were right: it is inevitable. They could see that even after all that the Christian Church has been through and has put the world through, human mind will always be afraid of change and growth into higher concepts and deeper values and will always revert to the past where they are comfortable and safe, even if that comfort and safety is the very thing that restrains men in their personal spiritual activities instead of releasing them for heightened service as kingdom builders.

The way to build the Kingdom is not through rebuilding by mirroring what doesn't work. It is by accepting the responsibility of being the living gospel, the living temples, the living expression of God in the earth.

If you, Michael, cannot see what you are doing because of your ignorance, that is one thing. But to do what you intend because you have some diehard need to be the head of a "movement" (which will fall flat) and have your name and Association (AMO) attached to it, you are in for a rude awakening at some point. Wish it were now... it would save a lot of other people from being led back into what Jesus so desperately tried to help us come away from.

I certainly cannot wish you "good luck" in your endeavors, as I feel you are indeed mistaken.

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Dear Kreneep and friends,

I’ll make this short.

Experience repeatedly shows that wise moderation is necessary to prevent reprehensible and profligate distortions (regardless of motivations, well-intended or otherwise) from driving so many good people away and so many good threads into the “ditch of tangency”. Perhaps this one will now be added to the archives of derelicts.
Quote:
Intolerance, a contentious spirit, or any other disposition to interfere with the smooth running of the community would bring about the prompt and summary dismissal of the offending teacher. He would be unceremoniously dismissed...(134:3:6)

Just as you have begun to see the light regarding simple ekklesia, so you have much to learn - if you are able to clean out a corner of your mind - about the progressive and benign organization of living organisms and natural processes according to our Son's and Spirit's marvelous wisdom. In partnership with God, all things are possible.

“My dear friend, I bid you farewell now with God’s blessing and mine. May God give you and all who love Him peace, wise counsel, and His own interior joy in the fullness of grace. Amen.” (anonymous 14th century author)

With sincere regards,
MB

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Hi, Kreneep,

About being so revolted because somebody is trying to open a church.
You say that the real thing is the Brotherhood of Men, and it is right. But the Brotherhood of Men is just starting in Urantia, it is not fully developed yet. We are the ones who by loving one another and serving one another are making it real.
While that, Kreneep, Churches are necessary, religions are necessary.
I am pastor and I understand by the Urantia teachings that I can't be a "middle man" anymore; but I still have a function of teaching the meanings and the values of the brotherhood of man. I go to church at Sundays, I join my fellow brothers and sisters in Christianity on worship to God. Recently, I had oportunity to bring 4 studies for Sunday School, and while I used the Bible to teach, the core of what I said was all from Urantia Book, (on serving one another.)

Consider the fact the Machiaventa when was here with us, he had a Community of Disciples. What is wrong for a teacher to open a community to teach the values and meanings of the Brotherhood of Men?

It will be long, I think, until the Brotherhood of Men will be at least an influential force in Urantia and when it will happen, it will be SUDDENTLY.

I don't presume to change anybody, rather, i hope my toughts may bring some stimullus for more thinking.

I am not getting into this issue more than the above.

I appreciate your energy though.

Take care,

Jovalso

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urantiavista wrote:
Dear Kreneep and friends,

I’ll make this short.

Perhaps this one will now be added to the archives of derelicts.
Quote:
Intolerance, a contentious spirit, or any other disposition to interfere with the smooth running of the community would bring about the prompt and summary dismissal of the offending teacher. He would be unceremoniously dismissed...(134:3:6)

Just as you have begun to see the light regarding simple ekklesia, so you have much to learn - if you are able to clean out a corner of your mind - about the progressive and benign organization of living organisms and natural processes according to our Son's and Spirit's marvelous wisdom. In partnership with God, all things are possible.

“My dear friend, I bid you farewell now with God’s blessing and mine. May God give you and all who love Him peace, wise counsel, and His own interior joy in the fullness of grace. Amen.” (anonymous 14th century author)

With sincere regards,
MB


Michael

Sarcasm is not a fruit of the spirit.

    "Perhaps this one will now be added to the archives of derelicts"
    "if you are able to clean out a corner of your mind"

I know I can't expect you to be called out on your sarcasm towards me, but try to curtail it will you?

    "Just as you have begun to see the light regarding simple ekklesia"

"simple ekklesia" would be fine, but you are trying to turn that into a complex, business adventure with all the trimmings of organized religion.

I would dare say that being in "partnership with God" sounds like a business deal to me. Of course, then isn't that what Church "business" is all about?

It would be much more profitable if you would surrender your 51% to God and allow Him to have a relationship, rather than a "partnership" with you.

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Last edited by Kreneep on Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:57 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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jovalso wrote:
Hi, Kreneep,

About being so revolted because somebody is trying to open a church.
You say that the real thing is the Brotherhood of Men, and it is right. But the Brotherhood of Men is just starting in Urantia, it is not fully developed yet. We are the ones who by loving one another and serving one another are making it real.
While that, Kreneep, Churches are necessary, religions are necessary.
I am pastor and I understand by the Urantia teachings that I can't be a "middle man" anymore; but I still have a function of teaching the meanings and the values of the brotherhood of man. I go to church at Sundays, I join my fellow brothers and sisters in Christianity on worship to God. Recently, I had oportunity to bring 4 studies for Sunday School, and while I used the Bible to teach, the core of what I said was all from Urantia Book, (on serving one another.)

Consider the fact the Machiaventa when was here with us, he had a Community of Disciples. What is wrong for a teacher to open a community to teach the values and meanings of the Brotherhood of Men?

It will be long, I think, until the Brotherhood of Men will be at least an influential force in Urantia and when it will happen, it will be SUDDENTLY.

I don't presume to change anybody, rather, i hope my toughts may bring some stimullus for more thinking.

I am not getting into this issue more than the above.

I appreciate your energy though.

Take care,

Jovalso


Jovalso

Thank you for your contribution to this "discussion". But, I am afraid even you have misunderstood everything I have tried to say.

I have never said I am against gatherings, nor have I said I am against teaching others.

You asked "What is wrong for a teacher to open a community to teach the values and meanings of the Brotherhood of Men?" Absolutely nothing. But the problem is with the human desire to "be in charge", to "be the head" , to be the "one who has it all". Look at Catholicism, Christianity so distorted that it is even called a "religion" separate from Christianity.

Once someone is successful in promulgating The Urantia teachings as a "religion" (which is inevitable because of the human need to have one) then it will become another organized institution and this, my friend, is what the revelators were trying so desperately throughout the Papers to give us insight into so that we don't continue the same ignorant error we have done so many times in the past.

How can we progress if we keep doing the same thing over and over again?

It has nothing to do with "the progressive and benign organization of living organisms and natural processes according to our Son's and Spirit's marvelous wisdom." It has to do with the failure of those who do not see the truth, those who refuse to move on, those who insist on continuing the "safe-haven" way of approaching God. These people are afraid of having a personal, intimate relationship with God and they will delay their own progress, as well as the planet's by continuing in their ignorance.

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It seems to me I recall reading a Foundation-sanctioned pamphlet (written by Meredith Springer) that encourages UB readers NOT to create a new Urantia Church, but to return to their existing churches, the churches they were raised in, where their families go still, and work from within the existing paradigms to add the truths that would eventually ease out the errors and bring in the light of truth. There is an entire division of planetary government dedicated to fostering old-time religion.
Quote:
114:6.7 3. The religious guardians. These are the "angels of the churches," the earnest contenders for that which is and has been. They endeavor to maintain the ideals of that which has survived for the sake of the safe transit of moral values from one epoch to another. They are the checkmates of the angels of progress, all the while seeking to translate from one generation to another the imperishable values of the old and passing forms into the new and therefore less stabilized patterns of thought and conduct. These angels do contend for spiritual forms, but they are not the source of ultrasectarianism and meaningless controversial divisions of professed religionists. The corps now functioning on Urantia is the fifth thus to serve.
It would seem that there are some mortals who are influenced by "the religious guardians" and moved to support their efforts. One cannot begrudge somebody from following their destiny calling to assist in this division of seraphic planetary labor, any more than one can begrudge a nurse from following his/her destiny calling to assist "the angels of health" in that corps of seraphic planetary labor. But it would certainly be error if anyone of the mortal associates of these twelve sectors were to demand that everyone focus their energy on their chosen field, just as it would be error if all the kids in one family were required to be dentists when they grew up but the very word "church" triggers negative responses for millions of people who have had their parents religion crammed down their throat. Even UB readers, who ought to have worked through that issue, are still turned off by the idea of going backward into a male dominated spiritual hierarchy where people judge individuals by their appearance and their appetites. To create a Urantia Church, instead of working through the existing paradigms of the religious guardians, seems to be a backward step in planetary evolution.

So what is motrivating these fellows? I suggest their efforts are in support of another corps altogether. Let's take a look at a couple of possibilities.
Quote:
114:6.6 2. The progress angels. These seraphim are intrusted with the task of initiating the evolutionary progress of the successive social ages. They foster the development of the inherent progressive trend of evolutionary creatures; they labor incessantly to make things what they ought to be. The group now on duty is the second to be assigned to the planet.
Although the angels of the churches are considered "the checkmates of the angels of progress," I see these young men as being ambitious for evolutionary progress, and they might be laboring to make things what they ought to be, even though this steps on the toes of those who don't want to be guided and directed by ideas of churcification. What about
Quote:
114:6.11 7. The angels of enlightenment. Urantia is now receiving the help of the third corps of seraphim dedicated to the fostering of planetary education. These angels are occupied with mental and moral training as it concerns individuals, families, groups, schools, communities, nations, and whole races.
If we were to consider folks sitting around in a home-church environment, occupied with mental and moral training, this could render some aide for the angels of enlightenment, but then to use the word "church" snatches the light from enlightenment ... which all the religions have, particularly Buddhism. Or consider,
Quote:
114:6.10 6. The angels of the future. These are the projection angels, who forecast a future age and plan for the realization of the better things of a new and advancing dispensation; they are the architects of the successive eras. The group now on the planet has thus functioned since the beginning of the current dispensation.
A spiritual way of life could certainly assist in the realization of the better things of a new and advancing dispensation, and we could use some Urantia architects in this regard, but to use the word "church" in any context is to take a step backwards; it is to put new wine in an old wineskin.

Since this thread is called "future project," I think maybe these guys are working for the angels of the future, but don't want to be considered scy-fy or futuristic because it will be off-putting to those who want to move forward but don't want to go too far or too fast. I would recommend they find a new definition, one that is not threatening to those who have been damaged by the church and christianity, one that is not singularly Jesusonian but would entertain the indwelling spirits of all religionists -- an innerfaith kind of thing.

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Gerdean wrote:
I see these young men as being ambitious for evolutionary progress, and they might be laboring to make things what they ought to be, even though this steps on the toes of those who don't want to be guided and directed by ideas of churcification.



I seem to recall Adam and Eve doing this same kind of thing. Look where it took us!!!

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More than likely there are enough celestials to guide/direct/encourage/discourage/enlighten or otherwise utilize all the wide variety of human beings of the past, present and future. Believe we're in good hands and look forward to how it all unfolds. It will be messy for sure...but then when have any of our human efforts been done swiftly and cleanly without claw marks?

Peace
Jo

And then there is always, for sure, the Spirit of Truth....we will progress in spite of ourselves. :mrgreen:

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Yes. I don't see where Adam's ambition was a problem except as he complained to Eve who them felt compelled, evidently, to support her husband/partner and thus fell victim to the sophistries of Serapatatia, an unwitting partner in the travesty. This, I am sure, is why they introduced us to the mota that says: "Ambition is dangerous until it is fully socialized. You have not truly acquired any virtue until your acts make you worthy of it." To be fair, I see these field-workers trying to socialize their ambitions, but not being heard. It well may be not the right venue; then again, this vetting might be just what is necessary.

In our childlike faith we all have a sense of innocence. We think we could not possibly cause damage by our well-meaning efforts to advance a cause we hold so dear. And it happens all the time -- not only because we are a decimal planet, an experiemental planet, and WE CAN, but because -- as religionists -- we must! We reach a point where we are impelled to do something for the Supreme. And we act, -- religionists act -- even if it is the wrong thing to do. We don't have an office manual on this planet. All of our administrative heads have come and gone, leaving us on our own.

I have to admire those who are driven to help humanity somehow, and Lord, how much more honorable a project could there be than to build a house of worship in which to foster those things we have found through the Urantia Papers. Our hearts weep with wanting to find ways to minister to people, to make a difference, to make things better, to turn on the light, to comfort, to uplift ... all those things Jesus sought to do, we want to do also.

And we do what we can. What we know how to do. And no matter how sincere we are in our task, how closely we feel aligned to our God fragment, no matter how clearly the Spirit of Truth may be speaking to us, telling us "This is the way," there will be somebody out there waving a red flag and yelling, "Stop!!! You're going the wrong way! You're going to get somebody killed!!!" Maybe this is why it is said such situations are "inevitable." We are so far removed from perfection, out here on this outer rim of space, so far from Paradise, so young in our ascent, so cut off from good administration, so bereft of parental guidance. In the end, it must be acknowledged that any effort to move us along the pathway of truth, beauty and goodness must be considered part of the solution rather than part of the problem -- (especially now that we know Lucifer cannot invade our space any longer, and Caligastia is seriously curtailed).

However, in that acceptance of what others are doing (not what we might want it to be but what IS), there must be acceptance by others that that what I see as my job to do for the Supreme will be tolerated and not looked at by others as "The wrong way!!!" - cosmic suicide, socially retarded, even Caligastian. These are elements of the parameters in which we live and work, here on this emerald orb in the outer edges of the universe. In some ways it is like we are all voices crying in the wilderness, seeking some kind of harmony, needing to be seen by God, standing in the clearing, in the sun, singing songs of praise, and rejoicing in the light.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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In some ways it is like we are all voices crying in the wilderness, seeking some kind of harmony, needing to be seen by God, standing in the clearing, in the sun, singing songs of praise, and rejoicing in the light.

Yeah...that's us. Regardless of our differences...that's us. Your words are a tribute to our efforts.

Peace
Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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