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 Post subject: Re: future project
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J. Barry wrote:
One of the best ways to become more... is to have a group gathering of like minded people. People that Foster and Augment the best in you, as well you them, if that be a church so be it, or a conference, or what ever... it aids greatly to have a consistent place to fellowship and challenge each other to grow in a common pursuit of goals.


Doesn't this type of thinking fly in the face of the following teaching?

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p1739:06 You are destined to live a narrow and mean life if you learn to love only those who love you. Human love may indeed be reciprocal, but divine love is outgoing in all its satisfaction-seeking. The less of love in any creature's nature, the greater the love need, and the more does divine love seek to satisfy such need. Love is never self-seeking, and it cannot be self-bestowed. Divine love cannot be self-contained; it must be unselfishly bestowed.


Preferentially gathering with only like-minded people is rather incestuous isn't it? What causes growth? Exposure to newness, new problems, new people, new ideas, which are outside of one's zone of comfort. That is not to say that people don't need friends.

Look at Jesus, he did not start a church. He did, however, establish a core group of friends, but they were very different from himself. He didn't hide himself in the mountains with the angels and other deities who were closer in character and understanding to himself. He also dragged the apostles out to places they didn't want to be with and people they didn't want to interact with. He was always exposing them to newness, surprising them with new ideas and new problems.

One of the biggest impediments to growth is the avoidance of situations which result in disappointment, like situations and places with people who do not think like you.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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so much to learn from/with one another

i'll add a few random thoughts for the mix . . . random not because they are sans deep reflection rather that they are without crystallized form in time nor space . . .

evolution and revelation do not exist apart from each other. period.

u r in the middle of a church whether it be here, there, everywhere or nowhere.

if i beat you over the head w/ my underlines, bolds, repetitions of UB text, but have not forgiving tolerance, undying hope, sincere fairness, courageous loyalty . . . well, a fruity fragrance, then what have i achieved . . ?

to be w/ "like minded" ones, imho, is meant to mean those who have been graced and gifted w/ the FER. if so, isn't it ever so evident that even we like minded brethren are so very different so as to foster abundant opportunities to learn and grow, even within our chosen circles? what, then, is truthbook? why do we come here where it is closely monitored (pun intended) as to who says what, when ? what could possibly be "wrong" with UB readers coming together to worship/fellowship/serve in a place that is more or less deemed UB focused and inspired?

OK . . . just passing through and wanting to share my presents, errrrr presence

good to see this thread getting some attention, btw, good, bad and OtherWise

(gotta run ~ need to YouTube the glorious olympic skates that i've been missing due to the circumstance of being on ETime and choosing not to neglect much needed time in sweet slumber when TA can have at me, HA!)

wubba you (as my adorable 2 year old grandson would say),
smm


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Good day KP and others:

I respect your views as to why the formulization of a religion based on the principals of the UB is less than desirable. Additionally, I understand your very valid concerns regarding the overall effect upon mankind by this possible turn of events, and I, for one, find myself agreeing, at least in part, with each and every one of your concerns.

It is absolutely true… a formalized religion based on the UB will pollute the wonderful individuality which this revelation gives to those who discern… the insight that we all walk to the Father on our own paths, without dogma, and without human oversight.

But consider, if you will, the track record of all past revelations… even the revelation of the living god, given to humanity by the Son of Man:

Each of these revelations radically lifted certain segments of human society… gave to its lucky recipients a new and higher spirituality… and each of these revelations in turn sank to the evolutionary level where it could be assimilated by the rest of humanity.

And so it is with evolution. And so it is with revelation. On this world at least. Like it or not, this is how our planet has worked, is working, and will continue to work for the foreseeable future.

KP, I applaud your keen insight. Your ability to realize what a travesty the formulization of the UB into a religion for the masses will be. However, I say that for this revelation to succeed, this travesty is not only inevitable, it is desirable, and even mandatory.

Consider this chilling fact. I went into a reputable book store yesterday. A book store where I have often seen the UB on the shelves. They no longer stock this book due to lack of interest. When I look out from my admittedly limited vantage it seems as if the revelation is dying… it is drying up due to the lack of new blood, and the paralysis of oldsters who cling to a misguided philosophy of thinking it will spread “by itself”. It will not.

The authors write that “someday a new and greater John will arise”… could not that John come from this very generation? And failing that, should not such “Johns” be encouraged, even in failure, as a learning tool for that greater John who is yet to come?

Jesus was the son of the living God. And yet even this magnificent revelation was, in order to spread to the world, polluted by all kinds of pagan ritual and theological errors. How arrogant are we to think that a mere book will somehow escape that which even the revelation of Son of Man himself could not…


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Hay "K" seems we, every now any than rub up against each other :)...I'm ok with that, I was not attacking you ... nor miss-understanding you...this line of conversation has been active in the U.B. community for a long time, and i am one of those that have weighed in on the side of ..don't build that church,.. mostly because i saw an agenda that did not sound U.B. but more ego. but deep in side of me is a desire to have a place ..a gathering place were the thoughts and idea of the u.B. are taught and sheared. I don't like the word Church , mostly because of what it is most of the time in this country. nor do i like the word Christian, for the same reason.

But i do and have been thinking that we could all benefit from a Fellowship assembly ( lack of a better word) temple. devoted to God and all we understand him to be as the U.B. has given us an expanded view of.


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I have always loved that statement...

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p1739:06 You are destined to live a narrow and mean life if you learn to love only those who love you. Human love may indeed be reciprocal, but divine love is outgoing in all its satisfaction-seeking. The less of love in any creature's nature, the greater the love need, and the more does divine love seek to satisfy such need. Love is never self-seeking, and it cannot be self-bestowed. Divine love cannot be self-contained; it must be unselfishly bestowed.


Wouldn't it be great if there was a place where persons could learn what that statement meant and how best to live it, thus going out into the world and spreading the love that only comes from the Father.

The teaching of El Elyon where not individual persons studying on there own, they were all pulled to gather by Mel... and taught what and how, and filled with the inspiration to do what has never been done before. Have you read how they went out in to the world and influence every know faith on this planet. that has to be a great example of how to get things started.

I for one am bombarded by so many negative in this life, that just to have a sanctuary to go to would be a soul settling thing all on it own.

I would never support a new church of dogmas and tradition ..so unyielding as the ones we now have all over this planet. but i wholeheartedly support a spirit lead and open door love for life, want to teach and never stop growing place of spiritual feeding.

Stay True to the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Good afternoon all. I am not sure of the exact essence of this thread, something to do with Church i think.
It reminds me of the comment Jesus makes to Ganid at the end of the visit to Rome:
Quote:
(1467.2) 132:7.6 Then exclaimed Ganid: “Teacher, let’s you and I make a new religion, one good enough for India and big enough for Rome, and maybe we can trade it to the Jews for Yahweh.” And Jesus replied: “Ganid, religions are not made. The religions of men grow up over long periods of time, while the revelations of God flash upon earth in the lives of the men who reveal God to their fellows.” But they did not comprehend the meaning of these prophetic words.

Perhaps we are making a church now but do not know it. The master did instruct us that He would be present where 3 or more were gathered in His name. I am sure His Spirit of Truth can surf cyberspace, and be at your house, as well as at mine leaning over my keyboard. While a physical gathering may be more effective in leading one brother to love another despite their differences, an on-line church/forum has merit as well.
All for now....Greg


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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susan said:
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evolution and revelation do not exist apart from each other. period.

u r in the middle of a church whether it be here, there, everywhere or nowhere.


and hartley:
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Perhaps we are making a church now but do not know it.


That's pretty close to what I figure is going on :wink:

Peace
Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Hi! All
To Church or not to Church
We all know that knowledge is only posessed by sharing.
It is also obvious that Love is a social animal.
We should get together as much as we can. If there are many UB readers in your community have a picnic. If UB readers are too few and far between then Cyberspace will have to do.
The UB is great having brought us useful paradigm of cosmology .
I appreciate that the UB has some fine concepts, some mighty attractive assortment of words, all true, many artistic, some just factual (if I was a geologist those same factual words would be interesting), and others beyond the comprehension of most people. :arrow: Is this forum just a Glee Club for the book itself or can we discuss how to promote the book or how to put its teachings into practice wherever that may be. :smile: We would try imagine what advice Jesus would give each profession according to their trade and circumstances. He would bid all to do good, according to their highest principles, ideals and morals. He would advise us to love one another, to be fair and even merciful.
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130:4.3 Always must the desire to do the Father's will be supreme in the soul and dominant over the mind of an ascending son of God.

We can’t be lazy we must use our minds. Not mental exercises like memorizing facts, but rather thinking differently and going outside ones box. I am in a profession that offers me enviable opportunities to spread the UB. I have something to shore if this is the right place. :?:
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111:2.2 The material mind of mortal man is the cosmic loom that carries the morontia fabrics on which the indwelling Thought Adjuster threads the spirit patterns of a universe character of enduring values and divine meanings—a surviving soul of ultimate destiny and unending career, a potential finaliter.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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susan wrote:
so much to learn from/with one another

to be w/ "like minded" ones, imho, is meant to mean those who have been graced and gifted w/ the FER. if so, isn't it ever so evident that even we like minded brethren are so very different so as to foster abundant opportunities to learn and grow, even within our chosen circles? what, then, is truthbook? why do we come here where it is closely monitored (pun intended) as to who says what, when ? what could possibly be "wrong" with UB readers coming together to worship/fellowship/serve in a place that is more or less deemed UB focused and inspired?

smm


I know people who are "like-minded" with personal spiritual experiences that not only "line up" with the UB, but they had those experiences long before they ever saw the UB.

To say that "like-mindedness" means those who have been "graced and gifted w/the FER" is to set yourself above and apart from those who have experienced Truth/God/Salvation/Spirit/Joy/Love/ without the FER as if you are the only one enlightened and the only way to be enlightened is through the UB "revelation".


alwilliams767 said:

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But consider, if you will, the track record of all past revelations… even the revelation of the living god, given to humanity by the Son of Man:

Each of these revelations radically lifted certain segments of human society… gave to its lucky recipients a new and higher spirituality… and each of these revelations in turn sank to the evolutionary level where it could be assimilated by the rest of humanity.


Spiritually, man is much further along or else the FER would not have been introduced. But the revelators were, almost desperately, trying to make us understand that we do not have to sink to that "inevitable" level. They were trying to get us to transcend that... and many have... many who have no knowledge of the UB at all!!!

and:
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KP, I applaud your keen insight. Your ability to realize what a travesty the formulization of the UB into a religion for the masses will be. However, I say that for this revelation to succeed, this travesty is not only inevitable, it is desirable, and even mandatory.


The revelation of God as found in the UB is not dependent upon the success or failure of disseminating the Book or any book... It must come about through actually living the Truth... being the Truth. Otherwise, you can read, study and spread the UB and still not see any change in this planet.

J. Barry wrote:

[1] Wouldn't it be great if there was a place where persons could learn what that statement meant and how best to live it, thus going out into the world and spreading the love that only comes from the Father.

[2] The teaching of El Elyon where not individual persons studying on there own, they were all pulled to gather by Mel... and taught what and how, and filled with the inspiration to do what has never been done before. Have you read how they went out in to the world and influence every know faith on this planet. that has to be a great example of how to get things started.

[3] I for one am bombarded by so many negative in this life, that just to have a sanctuary to go to would be a soul settling thing all on it own.

[4] I would never support a new church of dogmas and tradition ..so unyielding as the ones we now have all over this planet. but i wholeheartedly support a spirit lead and open door love for life, want to teach and never stop growing place of spiritual feeding.


First of all, I would like to see you be a little more respectful of Machiventa Melchizedek and not be so familiar by calling him "Mel."

Next: [1] Yes, it is called LIFE - everyday life and personal communion with God.

[2] They did it through actually LIVING, NOT with or by a book!!!

[3] You have a sanctuary within you... go there!! Without going into your inner sanctuary and being alone with God, experiencing Him inside of your temple, how do you ever expect to bring to a fellowship or gathering anything of meaning and value that can only be gotten by that intimate, personal relationship with the Father?

[4] I agree, except that, unfortunately there would be those who would want to turn a "a spirit lead and open door love for life, want to teach and never stop growing place of spiritual feeding", into a "whose in charge, open door for those who love themselves more than life, and a never stop crystalizing place of 'we have it and you don't' attitude with intellectual feeding frenzies and lack of true sonship and fellowship among brethren."

I would suggest, strongly, that you put more attention on your personal, spiritual experience which will inevitably (there's that word) bring about all the fellowship and "like-minded" and brotherly love you can stand. It is by personal experience in knowing God that you can truly experience the brotherhood of man... with out it you are only a humanist and that is not lasting.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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The many diverse people that post (and those that only visit) on this site:

Read/study the UB.
Worship/pray/meditate.
Are involved with other people with similar/dissimilar mindset's.
Live what they believe to the best of their ability.
Do not consider themselves perfected in their understanding of God.

Are church.

Most people I associate with and interact with, on this site and in person...are church, regardless of our individual beliefs.

Peace
Jo

And Mel probably would smile if he wasn't already so busy with more important things :wink:

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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Just a brief interjection. In terms of "like-mindedness", I confess that the most evil, hateful individual I have ever encountered personally is an avid TUBist, a TUB-thumper. It's not about what you profess to believe, it's about who you are. That being said, Jesus taught us, "You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father." (p1591:6 141:5.1)

Go out and find the spirit gift of the heavenly Father in everyone you meet, not just those whom you perceive to be like-minded. Divine love is outgoing in all of its satisfaction seeking. (p1739:06)


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Gee, kreneep, I didn't take JB's post to be anything more than a general summary of his thoughts on this topic...not for or against anyone, not really pro or con. He'll have to respond (or not) for himself but I didn't read anything about you or anything about what you have posted in what he wrote. This thread has been running quite a few months and multiple people have been popping in and out with a variety of comments/thoughts.

Peace
Jo


NOt sure why I would even bother to comment back to this.... but....

I said "Awaken out of your unconsciousness people... become ...."

JBarry said: "One of the best ways to become more... is to have a group gathering of like minded people. People that Foster and Augment the best in you, as well you them, if that be a church so be it..."

I also have talked about not forming a "church" out of the Urantia Book revelations and JBarry said: "if some one is great at the solo thing more power to them, but the majority of people learn best from those around them."

Jak, I don't just read with my eyes, I read with intuitive and cognitive understanding behind what people are saying on the surface. I don't "read into" what someone says, as you are suggesting... but think as you will.




Kp...what I posted was meant only as a clarification...not a criticism. Maybe it is only that you are not aware that those you are putting down with your "!!!" and "_____" and "bold" are the very one's who are intimately involved with their Creator and actively living out that belief in their daily lives, they are very actively involved with others as they go about their days. They calmly post a thought or reflection or personal point of view and your response is anything but calm, and seems to hold an underlying anger. They are living exactly what you are saying.

Just clarifying a little more, that's all.

Peace
Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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Kp...what I posted was meant only as a clarification...not a criticism. Maybe it is only that you are not aware that those you are putting down with your "!!!" and "_____" and "[b]bold"[/b] are the very one's who are intimately involved with their Creator and actively living out that belief in their daily lives, they are very actively involved with others as they go about their days. They calmly post a thought or reflection or personal point of view and your response is anything but calm, and seems to hold an underlying anger. They are living exactly what you are saying.

Just clarifying a little more, that's all.

Peace
Jo


Jak
First of all, why are you always misreading, misinterpreting what I write. I put things in bold or CAPITALIZE the word and use !!! to emphasize something I am writing. That is an acceptable and usual way of expression among those who like to be sure whomever is reading will "get the point" or know that particular word or part is more emphasized in my mind. If you don't understand that, or accept that, oh well!!!

But, please stop criticizing what is not meant for you. I am NOT putting anyone down. I also calmly put my posts on here. I am not angry and have no agenda and have no underlying anger. I am just expressing myself differently than you or others. So cool it!!!

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Kreneep,

I understand the frustration I perceive you must have felt in being misunderstood as to your expression. Fact is, religious people are DYNAMIC people, and they feel things deeply, and express them emphatically.

People are all the time thinking I am angry when I am not angry at all, but merely ADAMANT. Some people act bigger than life; some people write bigger than life.

Anybody who is passionate about anything is bound to come across as having some kind of authority, even if it is only his or her own authority over his or her own attitudes and/or opinions. And many people fear or reject authority, even if it is not being directed at them.

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Kp...what I posted was meant only as a clarification...not a criticism. Maybe it is only that you are not aware that those you are putting down with your "!!!" and "_____" and "bold" are the very one's who are intimately involved with their Creator and actively living out that belief in their daily lives, they are very actively involved with others as they go about their days. They calmly post a thought or reflection or personal point of view and your response is anything but calm, and seems to hold an underlying anger. They are living exactly what you are saying.




Jak
First of all, why are you always misreading, misinterpreting what I write. I put things in bold or CAPITALIZE the word and use !!! to emphasize something I am writing. That is an acceptable and usual way of expression among those who like to be sure whomever is reading will "get the point" or know that particular word or part is more emphasized in my mind. If you don't understand that, or accept that, oh well!!!

But, please stop criticizing what is not meant for you. I am NOT putting anyone down. I also calmly put my posts on here. I am not angry and have no agenda and have no underlying anger. I am just expressing myself differently than you or others. So cool it!!!


Ok, Ok...I hear you....very loudly and clearly. Not sure why you continue to yell but maybe it's just your style of writing and speaking. Not sure where the "always" comes in but if that's the way you see it then that's the way you see it.

Nothing you say, nothing I say is gonna make a dent in this old planet anyway. It will continue turning and people will continue as they will...relax just a bit.

Peace to your heart
Jo

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