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Dear friends,

I started this thread with only one purpose, which was to answer Al's question, and that I have done. You now also have some inkling about TSF, Inc., but would benefit (imo) from more information related thereto.

It's unfortunate to see such a well-intentioned forum category turned into another arena for acrimonious debate or fallacious argument, and folks on this board do not yet have enough information to make a balanced evaluation of the merits; therefore, for the time being, I will be directing my further attention to obstructions of understanding regarding this "future project" either in Abner's Corner or Essays & Speeches.

In good Spirit (OT),
MM

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"The law will be written in their hearts"

To me, true spiritual fellowship does not need laws and traditions so it does not need a church. True spiritual fellowship is fellowship in spirit.

Ysmael


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I suspect that the Urantia revelation was under the same guidance that Christ Michael concerning the direct establishment of a "new religion". But that doesn't assume that one wouldn't inevitably, naturally evolve. The UB itself gives guidance about the inevitable religion which will evolve out of this most recent revelation.

THE BESTOWAL LIMITATIONS
=
=
=
FURTHER COUNSEL AND ADVICE


p1329:6 120:3.5 "4. Under no circumstances and not even in the least detail, should you interfere with the normal and orderly progressive evolution of the Urantia races. But this prohibition must not be interpreted as limiting your efforts to leave behind you on Urantia an enduring and improved system of positive religious ethics. As a dispensational Son you are granted certain privileges pertaining to the advancement of the spiritual and religious status of the world peoples.

p1330:1 120:3.6 "5. As you may see fit, you are to identify yourself with existing religious and spiritual movements as they may be found on Urantia but in every possible manner seek to avoid the formal establishment of an organized cult, a crystallized religion, or a segregated ethical grouping of mortal beings. Your life and teachings are to become the common heritage of all religions and all peoples.

p1330:2 120:3.7 "6. To the end that you may not unnecessarily contribute to the creation of subsequent stereotyped systems of Urantia religious beliefs or other types of nonprogressive religious loyalties, we advise you still further: Leave no writings behind you on the planet. Refrain from all writing upon permanent materials; enjoin your associates to make no images or other likenesses of yourself in the flesh. See that nothing potentially idolatrous is left on the planet at the time of your departure.



The Jewish religion persisted also because of its institutions. It is difficult for religion to survive as the private practice of isolated individuals. This has ever been the error of the religious leaders: Seeing the evils of institutionalized religion, they seek to destroy the technique of group functioning. In place of destroying all ritual, they would do better to reform it. In this respect Ezekiel was wiser than his contemporaries; though he joined with them in insisting on personal moral responsibility, he also set about to establish the faithful observance of a superior and purified ritual.


87:7.6 Regardless of the drawbacks and handicaps, every new revelation of truth has given rise to a new cult, and even the restatement of the religion of Jesus must develop a new and appropriate symbolism. Modern man must find some adequate symbolism for his new and expanding ideas, ideals, and loyalties. This enhanced symbol must arise out of religious living, spiritual experience. And this higher symbolism of a higher civilization must be predicated on the concept of the Fatherhood of God and be pregnant with the mighty ideal of the brotherhood of man.


87:7.7 The old cults were too egocentric; the new must be the outgrowth of applied love. The new cult must, like the old, foster sentiment, satisfy emotion, and promote loyalty; but it must do more: It must facilitate spiritual progress, enhance cosmic meanings, augment moral values, encourage social development, and stimulate a high type of personal religious living. The new cult must provide supreme goals of living which are both temporal and eternal—social and spiritual.

But the great difficulty of finding a new and satisfying symbolism is because modern men, as a group, adhere to the scientific attitude, eschew superstition, and abhor ignorance, while as individuals they all crave mystery and venerate the unknown. No cult can survive unless it embodies some masterful mystery and conceals some worthful unattainable. Again, the new symbolism must not only be significant for the group but also meaningful to the individual. The forms of any serviceable symbolism must be those which the individual can carry out on his own initiative, and which he can also enjoy with his fellows. If the new cult could only be dynamic instead of static, it might really contribute something worth while to the progress of mankind, both temporal and spiritual.


Colter


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Hi Colter and all,

I guess this thread hasn't vaporized yet, eh?

Okay, I'll give it another go...

You are astute to have made a connection to Paper 120. I differ slightly with your suspicion that the FER was under exactly the same guidance given by Immanuel to Michael because as a material object the UPapers are actually unable to perform the kind of actions that would lead to the successful establishment of a “new religion”. Our difference is very minor though. From any number of places within the text, it’s very easy to discern that the revelators were quite conscious that such a human socio-symbolic development must necessarily be evolved by us, otherwise the symbol itself would have no genuine human vitality. This is also in line with Michael’s attitude of non-interference toward the joint decisions of his apostles and the disciples of John the Baptist concerning the “outward kingdom”.

A closely related section is 101:4, “The Limits of Revelation”, wherein we read: “The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge.” and, “While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve. These “laws” undoubtedly exist as standards over vast universes in addition to our own blighted planet.

Here’s a thought for all to ponder that may help to shed light on a watershed moment from the life and teachings of Jesus concerning the laws of revelation:

Prior to Peter’s (and subsequently all the apostles) confession of faith-belief that Jesus was the divine Son of God, the Master had not revealed this fact to them. Why?

Imo, the answer is that this, being “premature and unearned knowledge”, would have transgressed the laws of revelation. On the way to the Transfiguration on Mt. Hermon, Jesus “well knew the time had come when he must begin to teach them more about his own nature and his personal relationship to the kingdom.” By confronting the apostles with the question, “But who say you that I am?”, Jesus orchestrated a situation wherein our Universal Father gave Peter revelatory insight in accordance with his faith and receptive capacity. That this in fact did occur is attested by Jesus’ words: This has been revealed to you by my Father. The hour has come when you should know the truth about me.”

Upon the spirit revealed gift and faith-belief reception of this “New Concept” of Jesus’ combined nature, our Creator Son “declared he would build the kingdom of heaven.” (157:5)

From this moment up until the crucifixion is described as the fourth and last period of Jesus’ earth career, “characterized by his acknowledgement of divinity”. (157:6).

Any thoughts, friends?

Glory to the Prince of Peace,
and may His Peace be upon us,
mm

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Hi Ysmael,

You wrote:
Quote:
True spiritual fellowship is fellowship in spirit.

This is quite true, and I would share an anecdote with you.

A very dear, wise and love-dominated brother who was once on the Board of The Spiritual Fellowship, Inc. confided to me that he had always been uncomfortable with the choice of that name for their religio-social organization. It seems unnecessarily confusing, but it does show idealism. It may be probable that multiple social fellowships will arise and perhaps affiliate, each with their own 'handles'.

Thanks for your input,
mm

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We can glean something from Melchizedek about why Jesus may not have disclosed more:


It was shortly after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah that Machiventa decided to end his emergency bestowal on Urantia. Melchizedek's decision to terminate his sojourn in the flesh was influenced by numerous conditions, chief of which was the growing tendency of the surrounding tribes, and even of his immediate associates, to regard him as a demigod, to look upon him as a supernatural being, which indeed he was; but they were beginning to reverence him unduly and with a highly superstitious fear. In addition to these reasons, Melchizedek wanted to leave the scene of his earthly activities a sufficient length of time before Abraham's death to insure that the truth of the one and only God would become strongly established in the minds of his followers. Accordingly Machiventa retired one night to his tent at Salem, having said good night to his human companions, and when they went to call him in the morning, he was not there, for his fellows had taken him.

The narrative around Melchizedek doesn't tell us much about what he taught his followers about himself beyond his statement to Amdon, "I am Melchizedek, priest of El Elyon, the Most High, the one and only God." He may have been just as tactful and discreet with his followers concerning his origin, leaving the faith component intact.


But Michael, making two one, that's was truly miraculous and likely unpredictable to the on looking celestial agencies.

"Urantia mortals have varying concepts of the miraculous, but to us who live as citizens of the local universe there are few miracles, and of these by far the most intriguing are the incarnational bestowals of the Paradise Sons. The appearance in and on your world, by apparently natural processes, of a divine Son, we regard as a miracle--the operation of universal laws beyond our understanding. Jesus of Nazareth was a miraculous person.

In and through all this extraordinary experience, God the Father chose to manifest himself as he always does--in the usual way--in the normal, natural, and dependable way of divine acting."


We could also consider that throughout the 3+ years of public teaching by this miraculous individual, his focus was on living the religion of Jesus, a God-man subject to the will of the Father. It's an event that's so many sided that I don't think we can reduce one facet of it to a logical explanation.


Colter


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Hi Colter and all,

Yep, “many-faceted” , while focused on living subject to the will of our Father is surely an apt description of our Creator Son’s seventh bestowal.

My purpose in highlighting “one facet” (Peter’s Confession) in this thread has to do with this event’s significance to the project under discussion – a fifth epochally inspired manifestation of the “outward kingdom”. Not only does this facet of Michael's bestowal hold great importance to Urantia Book believers, but it also contains a key element vital to the ‘melding’ of teachings from the Fifth Epochal Revelation with the “cocoon in which the kingdom of Jesus’ concept now slumbers”. In my opinion, this ‘melding’ is actually a process of assisting the emergence of the true kingdom of divine brotherhood, and the “beautiful unfolding of its less attractive creature of metamorphic development” – from within the Christian Church. (170:5) I do not at all regard this as compromising Jesus’ gospel of the kingdom in order to blunt criticism from Christian fundamentalism; but, it could well serve that practicality also.
Quote:
Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: "Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God."

Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: "You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father's spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom--the authority over things temporal--the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom." And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.
(157:4)

A new significance attaches to all of Jesus' teachings from this point on. (157:6)

This is perhaps another area of contention which is probably best addressed through a dedicated research and development venue. The ‘chaordic’ design process of which I have many times written, should be understood as one in which a “new cult” - or socio-religious organization inspired by the FER – can and must be “evolved”. Such a process of evolution can be anticipated to involve significant time. I’m suggesting easily 3-5 years, perhaps 5-10 years or more in the development and actualization of such a socio-religious community united by “ideals and purposes” rather than “psychological opinions and theological beliefs”. (99:5)

Thanks be to Christ-Michael,
may our Father be glorified
and His will be done,
mm

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 Post subject: I Think It's OK
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Hello My Spiritual Brothers and Sisters,

I recall the "Forbid him not" section where Jesus allowed the strange preacher to teach in his name.

If anyone is very concerned about a Urantia Church, they can address those concerns to one of the board members, Richard "Dick" Bain, who I happen to know personally for many years. ;)

I don't think we should have anything to worry about concerning efforts like this. In fact, the Master did say that we were to never think alike, not uniformity, but unity among us.

So, let's see what this does, huh? And if it is worthy, it will be supported. If it is not, it will fall on its own accord.

Peace and Love to all,
Mike Bain

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If anyone is very concerned about a Urantia Church, they can address those concerns to one of the board members, Richard "Dick" Bain, who I happen to know personally for many years.


Just out of curiosity, what "board" are you speaking of???

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 Post subject: The Spiritual Fellowship
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The Spiritual Fellowship
The organization of which this discussion thread referred to.





Peace,
Mike

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We see what we want to see to further our own personal agendas..in the final analises. don't mean to sound harsh.

Lets say we have to ...ok..maybe more comps of thought here, but for me 2 ..the one that says ..let do it ..let make a new religion to bring in a new Era of Faith recovery.

The other that says . lets have the Faith to be a part of God will and give the Spirit of Truth and all the Indwelling Adjusters as well as all the other Spiritual host a chance to turn our confused mind towards that personal Religion of personal discovery.

One I believe will be met by much disharmony in the time we now life , and the other will take a very long time.

The U.B. in my interpretation is asking me to be a part of the solution and do as Christ did , so it can be said ...he revealed God to many more simply as he walked by.


I have long for a church, but I am a realist as well as a Spiritual man, and see much in our times that tells me this is not the time ...at least not yet.

I do see the great pay off if we were to begin the formation of what a tuly uncorrectable Church could look like in the future so that when the time is right they will have a guide to insure that the mistakes of our time will not be repeated.

My 2 Cents


Stay True To The Journey


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I do see the great pay off if we were to begin the formation of what a tuly uncorrectable Church could look like in the future so that when the time is right they will have a guide to insure that the mistakes of our time will not be repeated.


As humans we will never be able to form a "truly uncorrectable Church" (whatever that really means), and it is almost guaranteed that the mistakes would be repeated because it is not possible to form a "church" that is without error...

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 Post subject: I Am Happy....
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with my Unity Church in St.Pete, FL. I hope to foster an ongoing study group there, but other than that, it really helps fulfill my desire to be near others who believe somewhat like me. That feels really good.


May we all have our Spirit friends back us in whatever endeavor brings God to man and man to God.

Peace to my Siblings,
Mike

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This is getting monotonous having to repeat myself... but I do because maybe it will finally reach open ears...

Jesus did not call for us to form a "church"... He did, however, say that it is good for us to fellowship together... the problem is, most, and I mean MOST believers do only that... fellowship with like-minded people and never reach out to those outside of their "box"... Jesus said "Go into all the world...." He did not say, "Keep to yourselves..."

Yes, it "feels good" to be around others who believe like we do, but we should be more concerned about spreading the gospel of Jesus and not so much how "good" we feel... I am sure there were many times the apostles/disciples felt "good" when they came together, but in order to do the will of the Father we must be willing to be more concerned with the way others feel... those who have not come into the Kingdom....

I am not against meetings, fellowshipping, gatherings to study, talk, pray or worship... we need to do that... what I object to is how those who "profess" to be Urantia Book students can find any place where Jesus/Michael says that we should create an organized, institutionalized "Church"? Or how what the midwayers said could be so misinterpreted as to think that their desire to see unity means they wish we would form a "Church" around the Urantia Book... how preposterous...

Quote:
The Jewish religion persisted also because of its institutions. It is difficult for religion to survive as the private practice of isolated individuals. This has ever been the error of the religious leaders: Seeing the evils of institutionalized religion, they seek to destroy the technique of group functioning. In place of destroying all ritual, they would do better to reform it. In this respect Ezekiel was wiser than his contemporaries; though he joined with them in insisting on personal moral responsibility, he also set about to establish the faithful observance of a superior and purified ritual.


This is not talking about the religion of the spirit... it is talking about the religion of the mind... the religion of the spirit is personal, individual and meant to be practiced individually... the error spoken of is when religious leaders try to destroy institutionalized religion (religion of the mind) because it doesn't conform to their nonprogressive type of religion... the kind Jesus was warned not to seek to establish.

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 Post subject: future project
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Brother Kreneep

QUOTE:
[this is getting monotonous having to repeat myself]

I just can't help but respond to your last post, you left yourself wide open.

Your possition on the church and its coming together is plastered thru out Truthbook. It is also getting monontonous listening to your possition.

What part of this quote don't YOU understand: ( 999:2)--"PRAYER IS THE TECHINQUE WHEREBY, SOONER OR LATER, EVERY RELIGION BECOMES INSTITUTIONALIZED." The Urantia Book.

In Brotherly love ... Jess


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