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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Nice post, Gerdean...well and beautifully said.

To Everyone else:

It is really not polite to jump on someone's back when they bring up a new idea. If you disagree with their idea, the polite thing would be to counter with some questions or concerns that you might have about their idea. This is usually done with mild words, words that you might use when you are speaking to a respected elder. Now, the person whose post is in question may be younger than you, but on an anonymous forum, we never really know, do we? So we might try to err on the side of politeness, just in case, and make an effort to treat everyone with common courtesy.

People who come to this list are, for the most part, sincere seekers. Many have a burning desire, as Gerdean so eloquently pointed out, to minister. We all have that desire. It is so very rude to jump on them with both feet and proclaim that they are wrong, or misdirected, or whatever. It may turn out that they ARE wrong, but Jesus demands that we treat each other as we wish to be treated. The issue can be discussed with a polite back-and-forth without anyone getting their feelings hurt. In this way, the truth is eventually revealed. Without courteous behavior towards one another, it becomes a case of the loud overcoming the softspoken, the aggressive overcoming the one who retreats because they don't want an argument. Then the issue becomes lost.

Just a word of advice: Before you hit "submit," hit "preview," and see how it looks. Pretend you are the person who is being addressed and see how it feels to you. Adjust it until it says what you want to say, but keep at it until you are sure it is not offensive...

MaryJo


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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If I weighed it that carefully, Mary Jo, I would probably never say anything, and certainly nothing substantive or meaningful.

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Gerdean O'Dell
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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Religion is AN Option

5.5.5 Evolutionary religion is the mother of the science, art, and philosophy which elevated man to the level of receptivity to revealed religion, including the bestowal of Adjusters and the coming of the Spirit of Truth. The evolutionary picture of human existence begins and ends with religion, albeit very different qualities of religion, one evolutional and biological, the other revelational and periodical. And so, while religion is normal and natural to man, it is also optional. Man does not have to be religious against his will.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Gerdean wrote:
We think we could not possibly cause damage by our well-meaning efforts to advance a cause we hold so dear. And it happens all the time -- not only because we are a decimal planet, an experiemental planet, and WE CAN, but because -- as religionists -- we must! We reach a point where we are impelled to do something for the Supreme. And we act, -- religionists act -- even if it is the wrong thing to do. We don't have an office manual on this planet. All of our administrative heads have come and gone, leaving us on our own.

I have to admire those who are driven to help humanity somehow, and Lord, how much more honorable a project could there be than to build a house of worship in which to foster those things we have found through the Urantia Papers. Our hearts weep with wanting to find ways to minister to people, to make a difference, to make things better, to turn on the light, to comfort, to uplift ... all those things Jesus sought to do, we want to do also.


Gerdean, I seem to remember your having been against the creation of a "Urantian Church"...

All those things (in bold) that you have said are those things that can and should be done by our being the difference, our being what is better, our being what Jesus said. It is not going to be done by someone organizing and creating an institution of religious ferver. I thought you agreed with that. Apparently not, now, for some reason. What a shame.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Gerdean wrote:
If I weighed it that carefully, Mary Jo, I would probably never say anything, and certainly nothing substantive or meaningful.



!!!Exactly!!! Ditto.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Kreneep. I have not changed my mind and I have no cause to feel shame. I am still not inclined to support a Urantia Church. The very idea is anathema to me. TO ME!!! But I have to accept the fact that there are others for whom it is a compelling idea ... a virtual calling!!! That is all I am saying. If somebody is compelled to do something, they will do it whether I and you or anybody else likes it or not.

Such as what I do -- which is something we are not even allowed to talk about! I will do what I do for the uplift of this planet whether anybody likes it or not because I believe I am pursuing my destiny in the ways and means that are set out for me. I have to accept that there are people who are disinclined to give it/me any credibility at all and will fight tooth and nail against it/me, even try to destroy it/me, they disagree with my methods so vehemently.

And what I am trying to convey here is that it would be very nice if we were to be able to learn to tolerate what other people do whether we like what they do or not because, in the end, there is really nothing we can do about it. If it is not socially acceptable, it will go underground, but it will not go away because (a) this is an experimental planet and (b) we are explorers. We are inspired! We are led! We are spiritually motivated! We are adventurers and we are LURED to go where no man has gone before ... even as we end up in our own backyards, pulling weeds and watching the grass grow.

The only reason I dislike organized religion is because I have, overall, had negative experience with it, but I have also had moments of awe in that Holy of Holies kind of environment. My "fear" of a Urantia Church of the Universal Father is that it will bring down the sacred aspects of the God that I worship and render him as just another version of the guy with the long beard who sits on a throne and passes judgment. But there are others who think that what I wish for all mankind is mental illness!

So I am trying to look at this from both sides -- both extremes, if you will, of orthodox and avante garde -- and present the abiding truth that relates to both of them. I am trying to represent what is fair. Maybe a chuch would not be as bad as I fear. Maybe, it being a Urantia Church, it would not fall victim of those things common to all denominations in Christendom -- those things set forth in "Christianity's Problem" and other places, such as:
Quote:
"... there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master."
Maybe hearing the voices of angels, or the whispers of heavenly helpers would not be so fearsome either, if folks were not so frightened by the idea that we might be possessed (not possible since the Day of Pentecost) or taking a major step back into the era of ghost cults.
Quote:
"And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment."
I know you are a lover of truth, Kreneep. I have seen you fight the good fight of faith nobly and valiantly. As one appearing in unorthodox raiment, I am also not slow to forget that the church used to burn people like me at the stake! Even in this day and age I have been subjected to real persecutions because of my faith. And when we are admonished by our administrators to be nice and obey social mores over what we are admonished by the Spirit of Truth to be and to do, I really do squirm.

Sometimes I have to speak up, even if my voice shakes, even if I get thrown off the list for insubordination or for having a supposed contentious spirit. There are times when I am pressed by my Indwelling Spirit to transcend the injustice and speak out about what is fair and good and right for all concerned. The truth in my eloquent post should be able to echo off the walls and reflect MY faith, and MY faith path, just as it reflects the truth, beauty and goodness of others'.

I have not changed my mind, Kreneep. I am simply manifesting the fruits of the spirit as they operate within and through me. I have allowed my divine mind to rise to the occasion. This is what it is to have the fruit of the spirit "sincere fairness." And until we on this planet know more about how to proceed -- without a visible planetary government and without visible planetary parental guidance -- it would behoove us to cultivate "forgiving tolerance" for that which we cannot fully understand.

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Gerdean O'Dell
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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Gerdean...after reading your post, all I can say is thank you. It's a simple concept but often very difficult to live out. It may also be one of the most important and fulfilling lessons we have to face on this mortal level.
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This is what it is to have the fruit of the spirit "sincere fairness." And until we on this planet know more about how to proceed -- without a visible planetary government and without visible planetary parental guidance -- it would behoove us to cultivate "forgiving tolerance" for that which we cannot fully understand.


Peace
Jo

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Hi Gerdean,

May be you should endeavor to publish more books. Over the past few days you have made some exceptionally eloquent posts. I do not agree with everything you have written (you are aware of some of our differences in viewpoint), but much of what you write and how you have presented it has been exemplary.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Gerdean
Thanks for your clarification.

I do, however, still have issues with thoughts like this:
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Maybe, it being a Urantia Church, it would not fall victim of those things common to all denominations in Christendom


If you will go back a page or two and look at the list that Michael posted, compare it to any denominational, Christian Church organization, I can hardly believe that you could say that this man's "dream" would not "fall victim" to history and error repeating itself. The very things on his list proves that, at least his Urantian Church would.

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Sometimes I have to speak up, even if my voice shakes, even if I get thrown off the list for insubordination or for having a supposed contentious spirit. There are times when I am pressed by my Indwelling Spirit to transcend the injustice and speak out about what is fair and good and right for all concerned. The truth in my eloquent post should be able to echo off the walls and reflect MY faith, and MY faith path, just as it reflects the truth, beauty and goodness of others'.


Exactly!! My posts may not be as eloquent as yours, but I speak the "hard" truth sometimes and it is, many times, misunderstood as "judgmental" and as I have been told privately, "without credibility and meaning" because I don't say it the way they think I should.. I have seen a lot over 45 years in my "career" and I know of what I speak. I have seen too many failures because of organizational efforts and because of someone who thinks he knows it all and truly believes his way is not going to fail because it is "different". Well, when you put a list out that is in noi fashion different than what has come before and which has caused more harm than good in the long run, well, I just have to say something.

When someone comes back at me with sarcasm, I know he/she are coming from an insecure, unstable place. Those who follow that person find a safe haven in him/her because they can't see the "future" in relation to the "past".

As I have said and will continue to say, the revelators desperately tried to show us (without interfering with the prime objective - our evolutionary process) that we need not go in the same direction with The Urantia Papers and their revelation, that we have all we need (at this point) to go in a better, more forward direction than when Christianity was established.

But, alas! I'm as misunderstood in my efforts as you are in yours and I don't even do what you do!

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I have not changed my mind, Kreneep. I am simply manifesting the fruits of the spirit as they operate within and through me. I have allowed my divine mind to rise to the occasion. This is what it is to have the fruit of the spirit "sincere fairness." And until we on this planet know more about how to proceed -- without a visible planetary government and without visible planetary parental guidance -- it would behoove us to cultivate "forgiving tolerance" for that which we cannot fully understand.


I would hope that what I am doing is "enlightened honesty" which is also a fruit.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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It is true that man has many time lost his way, and even in our community persons have attempted to build something great and it has failed, or fallen short of the dream.

I see and understand the foully of human efforts, but don't we have in us a very strong longing to keep attempting till we get it right...aren't we driven by spirit to improve no matter how many time we fail.

And we will fail over and over, I my self have sounded the warning that we may be stepping into slippery waters, but that does not mean don't attempt it...what i would want is that we learn from the past and keep improving till we get it the way God want us to.

We whom have given our lives to God are bound by an oath to serve and it runs through our veins so strong that we can't help our selves from wanting to come up with Ideas on how to best serve God and Mankind.

Our daily efforts (Locally) are great in and of them selves, but we are also pulled to to think Community, Globally....So much so that we know in some way we will have to be organized in efforts to reach the largest numbers possible.

We may Fail. but that is no reason not to give it our best foot forward.

Stay True To The journey


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Rick Warren left this quote on an other posting and it sounded like it belonged in this discussion so i copied it for you guys to see.


...Man should be unafraid to experiment with the mechanisms of society. But always should these adventures in cultural adjustment be controlled by those who are fully conversant with the history of social evolution; and always should these innovators be counseled by the wisdom of those who have had practical experience in the domains of contemplated social or economic experiment. No great social or economic change should be attempted suddenly. Time is essential to all types of human adjustment--physical, social, or economic. Only moral and spiritual adjustments can be made on the spur of the moment, and even these require the passing of time for the full outworking of their material and social repercussions. The ideals of the race are the chief support and assurance during the critical times when civilization is in transit from one level to another.... P.911 - §5

Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,Wisdom,and more


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Yes, and maybe my comment, Kreneep, could be construed as representing "undying hope."

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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J. Barry wrote:
It is true that man has many time lost his way, and even in our community persons have attempted to build something great and it has failed, or fallen short of the dream.

I see and understand the foully of human efforts, but don't we have in us a very strong longing to keep attempting till we get it right...aren't we driven by spirit to improve no matter how many time we fail.

And we will fail over and over, I my self have sounded the warning that we may be stepping into slippery waters, but that does not mean don't attempt it...what i would want is that we learn from the past and keep improving till we get it the way God want us to.

We whom have given our lives to God are bound by an oath to serve and it runs through our veins so strong that we can't help our selves from wanting to come up with Ideas on how to best serve God and Mankind.

Our daily efforts (Locally) are great in and of them selves, but we are also pulled to to think Community, Globally....So much so that we know in some way we will have to be organized in efforts to reach the largest numbers possible.

We may Fail. but that is no reason not to give it our best foot forward.

Stay True To The journey


First of all the reason we keep getting it wrong is because we are not allowing the Spirit to lead. The spirit never drives us, He leads and we should follow. The problem is, the "drive" you speak of is called "ambition". That is not an attribute of the spirit, it is an attribute of the flesh. Being driven by ambition is in no way congruous to the establishment of the Brotherhood of man or the Kingdom. It is, however, one thing that keeps us from being led.

The primitive man was always trying to "come up with Ideas on how to serve God" (not so much man). That in and of itself is a sign that you don't understand the teachings of Jesus. Serving God is not something you do, it is something you are, something you must be. Serving man is a result of that being. As Gandhi said: "be the change you wish to see in the world."

You can come up with all kinds of ambitious ideas to do this and do that, but it is from within that your service to God makes everything else click.

The revelators, again, showed us the difference, yet "we" still are headed in the same direction: off a cliff. They have tried to show us the detour so that we do not go off that same cliff we have been over so many times. But, no one is hearing, I assume because no one "has the ear to hear".

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I looked for the poster guidelines for this category and don't see any - perhaps this is one reason why so many of the guidelines posted for the other categories are not being observed. Seems many are misunderstanding and feeling misunderstood. Such a life on such a planet, eh?

The last line in this TUB quote (my bold, obviously), to me, speaks volumes:

Quote:
170:5.20 It is just because the gospel of Jesus was so many-sided that within a few centuries students of the records of his teachings became divided up into so many cults and sects. This pitiful subdivision of Christian believers results from failure to discern in the Master's manifold teachings the divine oneness of his matchless life. But someday the true believers in Jesus will not be thus spiritually divided in their attitude before unbelievers. Always we may have diversity of intellectual comprehension and interpretation, even varying degrees of socialization, but lack of spiritual brotherhood is both inexcusable and reprehensible.


I pray "to discern in the Master's manifold teachings the divine oneness of his matchless life" and I pray this for all in our Truthbook family, as well.

susan


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Hang in there, Susan. The vast majority of people, here and elsewhere, recognize that we all have ears, we can all hear, and we all interpret what we hear according to our life experiences and the functioning level of our mental faculties. The spiritual understanding of that quote you just posted may end up being misunderstood or lost entirely, but God's mercy and patience is timeless....thankfully, since we have so very far to go. :razz:

Peace
Jo

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