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 Post subject: Re: future project
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susan wrote:
I pray "to discern in the Master's manifold teachings the divine oneness of his matchless life" and I pray this for all in our Truthbook family, as well.
susan

Well, Susan, here is one of those teachings (through the epochal revelation of The Urantia Book):

    180.5.2 Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.

My point? Truth is not meant to be anything other than living and experiential. When you dogmatize, institutionalize, codify and create creeds for the theories of truth, it will die, and well should, since it is only "intellectualized."

And Jo:

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we all have ears, we can all hear, and we all interpret what we hear according to our life experiences and the functioning level of our mental faculties.


What exactly are you referring to when you say "hear?" A voice?

Unfortunately, it is not about interpretation. And yes, we all have ears to hear, but "we" all do not choose to listen. There is a multitude of mortals who do not to listen and a multitude more who refuse to listen. Those who do hear are the ones who are being led by the Spirit. Those who do choose to listen are the ones who hear the voice of the indwelling spirit.

    109.5.2 It is sometimes possible to have the mind illuminated, to hear the divine voice that continually speaks within you, so that you may become partially conscious of the wisdom, truth, goodness, and beauty of the potential personality constantly indwelling you.

So let's not mislead those who stop in for the truth. Those who have the ears to hear, let them hear the truth.

    8.6.4 “The love of the Spirit” is real, as also are his sorrows; therefore “Grieve not the Spirit of God.” Whether we observe the Infinite Spirit as Paradise Deity or as a local universe Creative Spirit, we find that the Conjoint Creator is not only the Third Source and Center but also a divine person. This divine personality also reacts to the universe as a person. The Spirit speaks to you, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says.” “The Spirit himself makes intercession for you.” The Spirit exerts a direct and personal influence upon created beings, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

"I pray that the Father will anoint your eyes that you may see and open your ears that you may hear, to the end that you may have full faith in the gospel which" Jesus "taught you.”

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...permit the word of truth to strike down into the heart with living roots 177:5.2


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Seems like you are always looking for the Devil in the detail when there is none...

I did not mean ambition nor did i say it..i was clear, and for me and many other i know...
After we gave out life to God the Spirit has been driving us to do God will because we are growing to be come one with him, and we don't look for the devil in the detail because he just does not matter to those of us that have given our life over.

Hear what we are saying not what you in fear think you hear.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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J.Barry, you know how it is. When we learn something through adversity, we don't want to forget it so that we won't have to go back and learn that lesson again.
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"And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment."
I believe that Kreneep is trying to make sure that our fledgling faith, which has begun to blossom because we have embraced this beautiful new revelation, doesn't get smothered. (And my concern is that truth bearers who chance to appear in unorthodox raiment are not persecuted by our well-meaning brethren.") It is an act of love that is being performed. Whether you can appreciate her methods or not, Kreneep is manifesting courageous loyalty to her highest ideals.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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I hear what you're saying, Gerdean, and can agree with you only up to a point. It isn't unorthodox raiment that's being demonstrated here, nor a person's courageous loyalty that I have a problem with. It is the childish twisting of another's words to make it sound like they are saying/meaning something different then they wrote. It is the not so subtle insulting of the person instead of discussing the topic. It is the lack of respect for another by writing words with the intention of negating the person. How any one person, especially in this cyberspace realm where we have no way of knowing the person behind the words, can feel qualified to cast dispersions about another's relationship with their Creator and then hold themselves up as an example of spiritual enlightenment...and expect others to simply to take them at their word when their written word holds a fairly high level of animosity...it's just beyond my comprehension.

I have been guilty of stepping on another's toes, of being insensitive and at times, downright rude...but at some point, if I had a point I truly felt was worthy of consideration...I had to be quiet, step back and look at my motives and how I was presenting what I was saying. I still fail at this on occassion...we all do. But in order for any discussion to progress, in order for there to be any hope of an understanding, even if that understanding is simply to disagree with a particular thought of another...we have to learn to engage the brain before we engage the mouth...or in this case, the keyboard.

We all know plenty of televangelists, along with many everyday church-goers, who utilize this type of behavior by beating people over the head with the bible scripture; these are the very persons, the "leaders" of churches that KP is railing against. I see very little difference in her approach and usually pass over much of what she writes as nothing more than venting. We all have the need to vent at times but when it is consistantly consistant it does get old...kinda like a beautiful tinkling bell that continues far too long and eventually sounds like clanging.

Peace to All
Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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the U.B. says:

The wise and effective solution of any problem demands that the mind shall be free from bias, passion, and all other purely personal prejudices which might interfere with the disinterested survey of the actual factors that go to make up the problem presenting itself for solution.

The solution of life problems requires courage and sincerity.

Only honest and brave individuals are able to follow valiantly through the perplexing and confusing maze of living to where the logic of a fearless mind may lead.


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Here is page full of answers to Suffering from the Urantia Book.

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=307

Just copy and paste in Browser and enter.


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It is the childish twisting of another's words to make it sound like they are saying/meaning something different then they wrote. It is the not so subtle insulting of the person instead of discussing the topic. It is the lack of respect for another by writing words with the intention of negating the person.


TRY TO READ THIS ONE IN FULL.

This has gone past the ridiculous into the absurd.

Talk about reading into and twisting someone's words.

I did not in anyway say that JBarry was anything. Nor was I insulting him or anyone. I did not twist his words nor was I trying to make what he said something different than he wrote. I was defining the word "driven" and pointing out that anyone who feels they must DO something to serve God rather than BE, is not understanding the teachings of Jesus, nor the Urantia Book. I hardly think that is a "not so subtle insulting of the person instead of discussing the topic."

What is happening is, you expect me to do those things so you don't even read the full context of my post (as you say) and assume that what I am saying is personal or against someone, when in actuality, I am discussing, from my point of view, the topic and trying to drive home the truth of the matter as found in the Urantia Book . I am, in no way, trying to insult anyone contrary to your judgmental observation. It is because you do not take the time to read what I am saying. Why does Gerdean know what I am saying? Why does Iris (Bonita) know what I am saying? Maybe they read my posts in full and understand where I am coming from.

I can assure you, JBarry, I am not looking for "the Devil in detail", and I do not believe I am over-analyzing anything, but what I am looking at is someone's understanding of what they are talking about and when I find that they may be missing the point of truth (which many are), I address that. It may offend, it may anger, it may enrage someone to hear the truth, but to twist MY words and say that I am intentionally trying to insult anyone or am full of animosity is an outrageous untruth.

I did not say or twist anything you said. I did not say that you "meant" ambition or even said the word. You totally misread or could not understand what I said.

You people continuously degrade me by misunderstanding what I am saying and looking for ways to either openly or privately, subtley and sarcastically call me "evil, the devil, Caligastia, rude, cruel, derelict", and many other things not worth my time to repeat, and then say it is beyond your comprehension??? Well it is beyond mine, how the so-called Urantian community existing on this forum is so full of people who do the same thing they accuse me of doing and act like it is OK when it comes hidden behind their pseudo-intellectualisms and are not called out about it.

It has become almost impossible to speak any truth in any way on this forum because I am constantly met with someone trying to say that I am like "a clanging bell" and now I discover they "usually pass over much of what [I] write as nothing more than venting." If my "venting" were full of lies and personal woes and vendictive insults then believe me I wouldn't read them either.

How unfortunate that those who should have the ears to hear don't listen because they think someone is just "venting".

I repeat what I say often hoping that someone who does have the ears to hear will. Jesus had to repeat Himself many times and still He was not understood, still those who should have ears to hear missed most of what He said.

Maybe, instead of passing over what I have written, you could find the truth, which is quite visible, instead of thinking I have said something that I have not. Maybe you should look at what you and the many others who have insulted me, calling me things that if I were to say them to anyone I would be deleted and suspended.

Gerdean:

Thank you for your sense of truth and actually hearing what I have been saying. Thank you for realizing that I am not, by any means, trying to judge, insult or ridicule anyone for what they believe, that I am only trying to be a beacon to the detour that the revelators have expressed so emphatically throughout the Urantia Book and to which only a few have really understood because I see the cliff coming and would rather not see the majority go over that cliff. But, if they are unwilling to hear what the Spirit has said and is saying through the very Book which they idolize and hold as THE Truth unveiled to mankind, then who am I to think they would listen to me? There were very, very few who would listen to Jesus and they crucified Him.

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...permit the word of truth to strike down into the heart with living roots 177:5.2


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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KP wrote:
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subject: Re: future project

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It is the childish twisting of another's words to make it sound like they are saying/meaning something different then they wrote. It is the not so subtle insulting of the person instead of discussing the topic. It is the lack of respect for another by writing words with the intention of negating the person.


TRY TO READ THIS ONE IN FULL.

This has gone past the ridiculous into the absurd.

Talk about reading into and twisting someone's words.

I did not in anyway say that JBarry was anything. Nor was I insulting him or anyone. I did not twist his words nor was I trying to make what he said something different than he wrote. I was defining the word "driven" and pointing out that anyone who feels they must DO something to serve God rather than BE, is not understanding the teachings of Jesus, nor the Urantia Book. I hardly think that is a "not so subtle insulting of the person instead of discussing the topic."

What is happening is, you expect me to do those things so you don't even read the full context of my post (as you say) and assume that what I am saying is personal or against someone, when in actuality, I am discussing, from my point of view, the topic and trying to drive home the truth of the matter as found in the Urantia Book . I am, in no way, trying to insult anyone contrary to your judgmental observation. It is because you do not take the time to read what I am saying. Why does Gerdean know what I am saying? Why does Iris (Bonita) know what I am saying? Maybe they read my posts in full and understand where I am coming from.

I can assure you, JBarry, I am not looking for "the Devil in detail", and I do not believe I am over-analyzing anything, but what I am looking at is someone's understanding of what they are talking about and when I find that they may be missing the point of truth (which many are), I address that. It may offend, it may anger, it may enrage someone to hear the truth, but to twist MY words and say that I am intentionally trying to insult anyone or am full of animosity is an outrageous untruth.

I did not say or twist anything you said. I did not say that you "meant" ambition or even said the word. You totally misread or could not understand what I said.

You people continuously degrade me by misunderstanding what I am saying and looking for ways to either openly or privately, subtley and sarcastically call me "evil, the devil, Caligastia, rude, cruel, derelict", and many other things not worth my time to repeat, and then say it is beyond your comprehension??? Well it is beyond mine, how the so-called Urantian community existing on this forum is so full of people who do the same thing they accuse me of doing and act like it is OK when it comes hidden behind their pseudo-intellectualisms and are not called out about it.

It has become almost impossible to speak any truth in any way on this forum because I am constantly met with someone trying to say that I am like "a clanging bell" and now I discover they "usually pass over much of what [I] write as nothing more than venting." If my "venting" were full of lies and personal woes and vendictive insults then believe me I wouldn't read them either.

How unfortunate that those who should have the ears to hear don't listen because they think someone is just "venting".

I repeat what I say often hoping that someone who does have the ears to hear will. Jesus had to repeat Himself many times and still He was not understood, still those who should have ears to hear missed most of what He said.

Maybe, instead of passing over what I have written, you could find the truth, which is quite visible, instead of thinking I have said something that I have not. Maybe you should look at what you and the many others who have insulted me, calling me things that if I were to say them to anyone I would be deleted and suspended.




KP...I'm not sure if you are deliberately ignoring my complete post or are just not comprehending. Either way, I give. Will not continue to butt my head against a closed door...it's pointless and only end up with a headache...and it also seems to cause more ill will. Continue as you see fit and...

...I still wish you peace.
Jo

Vent: transitive verb
1 : to provide with a vent
2 a : to serve as a vent for <chimneys vent smoke> b : discharge, expel c : to give often vigorous or emotional expression to <vented her frustration on her coworkers>
3 : to relieve by means of a vent <vented himself in a fiery letter to the editor>intransitive verb : to relieve oneself by venting something (as anger) <comes home from work and vents to the kids>

We all do it...it wasn't meant as an insult. But it does become tiresome after awhile.


About 10 years ago a very intelligent and loving woman and I were walking along, discussing something forgettable, when she turned to me and said with complete frankness, "You have no filter between your brain and your mouth". Well, I was struck silent...for possibly the first time in my life. Had to give that statement some hard looking at for a good long time. Eventually I realized that she was right...and hopefully I've gotten somewhat better at weighing my words. But there are still times when I step into my own pile of poo poo. But...it's progress and not perfection.

Again...we all do it at one time or another.

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Your words "K"

the "drive" you speak of is called "ambition". That is not an attribute of the spirit, it is an attribute of the flesh. Being driven by ambition is in no way congruous to the establishment of the Brotherhood of man or the Kingdom. It is, however, one thing that keeps us from being led.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So yes you did and your posting responce just now is all-in all tip-pickle of how you beat people up here and act like you are the one being attacked.

I can not imagine that you are so blind to your actions that you don't see how you are treating people here, thus i can only guess that it all is intentional and you are one of those people that likes to create drama, as long as you are the one winning.

"G" has defined you many time, and i have attempted to see the other side of where you are coming from, but your skill in dialogue is unpleasant, judgmental, unfair one sided and untrue to most of us here...you come across as if... we don't agree with you than we are idiots.
My God woman what has happened in your life to think shearing love like that is acceptable.

It is not loving nor is it acceptable.

you have repeated you skill of attack so well that i know it is of no use to hope for a honest and open dialogue with you so just like another post we came to heads on i will walk away.

it just is not worth it to deal with you.


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Human life, in partnership with God, is such a fine teacher. I have been known to say, "I learn s l o w l y, but I do learn."

Even when we go the extra mile, and many here on this thread have, my experience has taught me that there are times when we must simply walk away from a situation. And, if this walking away is a good thing, a sense of deep peace replaces the agitation that was being felt during the closing stretches of what became a painful path.

Naturally, faith daughters and sons know that the relationships here and now that just cannot seem to be harmoniously realized will find their time and place in the not too distant future. I have been known to say, "Sorry we can't seem to understand one another here and now ~ I feel certain there is a table for two reserved for us on the mansion worlds and I look forward to taking up the journey with you then and there."

Just a couple of days (daze?) ago, I too knew for certain that it was my time to release myself from attempting to communicate directly with our beloved sister KP (and I was actually condemned for referring to her as a sister!). And when it was communicated to me that she does not believe that Michael or I have the slightest sense of spiritual experience where relationship with God is concerned, I was absolutely sure that it was time for a time out and told her so.

As I witnessed this thread continue to twist and turn, instead of staying entangled in it, I spent precious hours in study, prayer and worship, calmed, uplifted and assured especially by the following section of The Urantia Papers. I encourage all of us to read/listen to it (here or via your favourite text format) all the while allowing its teachings to unify our thinking/doing/being.

Thank you, Jesus, for giving us your life. You are Master, I am
your servant~friend,
susan


Quote:
7. THE ACME OF RELIGIOUS LIVING

100:7.1 Although the average mortal of Urantia cannot hope to attain the high perfection of character which Jesus of Nazareth acquired while sojourning in the flesh, it is altogether possible for every mortal believer to develop a strong and unified personality along the perfected lines of the Jesus personality. The unique feature of the Master's personality was not so much its perfection as its symmetry, its exquisite and balanced unification. The most effective presentation of Jesus consists in following the example of the one who said, as he gestured toward the Master standing before his accusers, "Behold the man!"

100:7.2 The unfailing kindness of Jesus touched the hearts of men, but his stalwart strength of character amazed his followers. He was truly sincere; there was nothing of the hypocrite in him. He was free from affectation; he was always so refreshingly genuine. He never stooped to pretense, and he never resorted to shamming. He lived the truth, even as he taught it. He was the truth. He was constrained to proclaim saving truth to his generation, even though such sincerity sometimes caused pain. He was unquestioningly loyal to all truth.

100:7.3 But the Master was so reasonable, so approachable. He was so practical in all his ministry, while all his plans were characterized by such sanctified common sense. He was so free from all freakish, erratic, and eccentric tendencies. He was never capricious, whimsical, or hysterical. In all his teaching and in everything he did there was always an exquisite discrimination associated with an extraordinary sense of propriety.

100:7.4 The Son of Man was always a well-poised personality. Even his enemies maintained a wholesome respect for him; they even feared his presence. Jesus was unafraid. He was surcharged with divine enthusiasm, but he never became fanatical. He was emotionally active but never flighty. He was imaginative but always practical. He frankly faced the realities of life, but he was never dull or prosaic. He was courageous but never reckless; prudent but never cowardly. He was sympathetic but not sentimental; unique but not eccentric. He was pious but not sanctimonious. And he was so well-poised because he was so perfectly unified.

100:7.5 Jesus' originality was unstifled. He was not bound by tradition or handicapped by enslavement to narrow conventionality. He spoke with undoubted confidence and taught with absolute authority. But his superb originality did not cause him to overlook the gems of truth in the teachings of his predecessors and contemporaries. And the most original of his teachings was the emphasis of love and mercy in the place of fear and sacrifice.

100:7.6 Jesus was very broad in his outlook. He exhorted his followers to preach the gospel to all peoples. He was free from all narrow-mindedness. His sympathetic heart embraced all mankind, even a universe. Always his invitation was, "Whosoever will, let him come."

100:7.7 Of Jesus it was truly said, "He trusted God." As a man among men he most sublimely trusted the Father in heaven. He trusted his Father as a little child trusts his earthly parent. His faith was perfect but never presumptuous. No matter how cruel nature might appear to be or how indifferent to man's welfare on earth, Jesus never faltered in his faith. He was immune to disappointment and impervious to persecution. He was untouched by apparent failure.

100:7.8 He loved men as brothers, at the same time recognizing how they differed in innate endowments and acquired qualities. "He went about doing good."

100:7.9 Jesus was an unusually cheerful person, but he was not a blind and unreasoning optimist. His constant word of exhortation was, "Be of good cheer." He could maintain this confident attitude because of his unswerving trust in God and his unshakable confidence in man. He was always touchingly considerate of all men because he loved them and believed in them. Still he was always true to his convictions and magnificently firm in his devotion to the doing of his Father's will.

100:7.10 The Master was always generous. He never grew weary of saying, "It is more blessed to give than to receive." Said he, "Freely you have received, freely give." And yet, with all of his unbounded generosity, he was never wasteful or extravagant. He taught that you must believe to receive salvation. "For every one who seeks shall receive."

100:7.11 He was candid, but always kind. Said he, "If it were not so, I would have told you." He was frank, but always friendly. He was outspoken in his love for the sinner and in his hatred for sin. But throughout all this amazing frankness he was unerringly fair.

100:7.12 Jesus was consistently cheerful, notwithstanding he sometimes drank deeply of the cup of human sorrow. He fearlessly faced the realities of existence, yet was he filled with enthusiasm for the gospel of the kingdom. But he controlled his enthusiasm; it never controlled him. He was unreservedly dedicated to "the Father's business." This divine enthusiasm led his unspiritual brethren to think he was beside himself, but the onlooking universe appraised him as the model of sanity and the pattern of supreme mortal devotion to the high standards of spiritual living. And his controlled enthusiasm was contagious; his associates were constrained to share his divine optimism.

100:7.13 This man of Galilee was not a man of sorrows; he was a soul of gladness. Always was he saying, "Rejoice and be exceedingly glad." But when duty required, he was willing to walk courageously through the "valley of the shadow of death." He was gladsome but at the same time humble.

100:7.14 His courage was equaled only by his patience. When pressed to act prematurely, he would only reply, "My hour has not yet come." He was never in a hurry; his composure was sublime. But he was often indignant at evil, intolerant of sin. He was often mightily moved to resist that which was inimical to the welfare of his children on earth. But his indignation against sin never led to anger at the sinner.

100:7.15 His courage was magnificent, but he was never foolhardy. His watchword was, "Fear not." His bravery was lofty and his courage often heroic. But his courage was linked with discretion and controlled by reason. It was courage born of faith, not the recklessness of blind presumption. He was truly brave but never audacious.

100:7.16 The Master was a pattern of reverence. The prayer of even his youth began, "Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be your name." He was even respectful of the faulty worship of his fellows. But this did not deter him from making attacks on religious traditions or assaulting errors of human belief. He was reverential of true holiness, and yet he could justly appeal to his fellows, saying, "Who among you convicts me of sin?"

100:7.17 Jesus was great because he was good, and yet he fraternized with the little children. He was gentle and unassuming in his personal life, and yet he was the perfected man of a universe. His associates called him Master unbidden.

100:7.18 Jesus was the perfectly unified human personality. And today, as in Galilee, he continues to unify mortal experience and to co-ordinate human endeavors. He unifies life, ennobles character, and simplifies experience. He enters the human mind to elevate, transform, and transfigure it. It is literally true: "If any man has Christ Jesus within him, he is a new creature; old things are passing away; behold, all things are becoming new."

100:7.19 [Presented by a Melchizedek of Nebadon.]


Last edited by susan on Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:56 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: future project
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Kreneep -- this is not the "woe is me" site, nor is it the "it's all about Kreneep" site. You may wish to reread your last post yourself; it was only about how discriminated upon you feel and had nothing to do with the purpose of the site. Work those feelings out privately.Posts must relate to the TUB and its teachings; disparaging other posters for their apparent ignorance and utter lack of wisdom is unacceptable. This is a final warning; you do have the capacity to contribute in a positive fashion so exercise it please.

Larry


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I think this whole frackass started because one thinks his interpretation of the UB is better than the other.

M - We need to do this per UB
K - We need not do anything as per UB
M - No, this is what the UB is saying
K - this is the truth as per UB
M - ......
K - ......

It's becoming no different from the sprouting of many Christian sects with their differing interpretation of their infallible Word of God.


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Greetings and happy day to all :biggrin: Okay...it must be time to be more light hearted. So lets take a deep breath and laugh a bit..it is good for ya. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ah that feels better.

God is so wonderful...all this disagreement stuff will fade under the beautiful light of love and truth over time...everyone is a bit right and everyone is a bit wrong sometimes... It really is about showing each other the respect and love we are taught in The Urantia Book. It teaches us that we are not to step on others..we are to light them up with truth until it makes the incorrect ideas and ways drowned out. I really love the way Jesus taught folks...it was so loving and I sure hope I can be that way every chance I get.

Hi Susan...how ya doin? You are one of my favorite people...you say you learn slowly...but I say you learn well and sometimes taking it slow is the best way to see all the little wonders in the learning experience...go too fast down the road...miss all the pretty sites kinda thing...you simply are smart enough to take time and see the sights. O:) O:) Love this part of your post:

Quote:
As I witnessed this thread continue to twist and turn, instead of staying entangled in it, I spent precious hours in study, prayer and worship, calmed, uplifted and assured especially by the following section of The Urantia Papers. I encourage all of us to read/listen to it (here or via your favourite text format) all the while allowing its teachings to unify our thinking/doing/being.

Thank you, Jesus, for giving us your life. You are Master, I am
your servant~friend,
susan

Wisdom indeed. Worship is awesome and feeds us in a way that lives forever. I really love paper 100. Good stuff.


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