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Alright Paradise,

No more bible quoting please unless you're gonna explain your thoughts on them afterwards, on how they pertain to the discussion, and in a polite way. I dont know exactly what is happening in your life right now, but i do know that we all suffer hardships in our own ways, and no ones' is greater than another.

So if you would like to share for spiritual support -- please do. If not, then there's not much we can do to help you, or console you. I for one believe in OBE's, that's why i'm the moderator of this forum.

For those who don't, that is fine. It's never saying anyone is experienceing more than another, everybody's journey is different.

Main point, I believe in spiritual communication, i believe in OBE's -- because it's of my own experience. If people don't agree that's fine. But this is a place for people to share their experiences, and not be debated on whether or not they happened.

So just a few little reminders and advisory as to what we look for on this forum.

Sorry i haven't posted more, but due to illness i haven't felt up to it much here lately. God and I are having a difference of opinion, and i'm trying to accept his because i know it's the best anyways, LOL :smile:

But, Paradise, i do understand suffering. If you need to PM me privately and need someone to talk to, i gladly open my door to you. But i again stress the use of bible verses if they are followed by your interpretation and how they follow along with the above topic.

You have to understand also that we are a family connected from all over the world. The most we really have to help each other with is spiritual conversation to help keep the faith up in troubled times.

Many blessings to all
Angel


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RayOK:

What page was the narration "The Boy Who Was Afraid" on? Can't seem to find it.

Thanks,
Trthqst


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trthqst, it actually is "the Young Man Who was Afraid" and it is on page 1437. All the best, Ray


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I hope to see you all on the morontia worlds and those beyond which we may tear to see.

We forget how short thy life is on miracle Urantia and the passing problems we come to face.

For I can't force thy surrender of your soul to the ascending light because if thy eternally-will shall you come to see that neverending wonder and your choice is the will... and let us pray in unison for the souls that yet have to glimmer that glorious reality. May you perfect God... the infinite Kindness... pour innocence onto our hearts and be tolerant of the passing fear to one day stand in eternal Glory for joyous and unspeakably consecration. God Bless.

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"Through art and philosophy the material-minded man is inveigled into the contemplation of the spiritual realities and universe values of eternal meanings." 5:4.4


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That was beautiful Arie :smile:

An i even understood it pertaining to my own daily life. I just love it when you come through.

Blessings,
Angel


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 Post subject: OBE?
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I would like to share something that happens to me. If I am feeling stressed it happens more often. I am in bed trying to sleep when suddenly I feel like I am slipping into unconciousness but I am completly aware of what is happening around me. I cannot talk or move, if I concentrate I can move my arms a little and moan. I can pull myself in and out of this state but at first was scared to go completely into the "place". As I grew more comfortable (the place I go is NOT a good place) I would let myself go deeper until eventually I went too far and did not have the mental streanth to get out. Sometimes I could fly, sometimes I would move around the house, sometimes I would go into very real dreams but most of the time my body would stiffen and I would lay there paralyzed in complete terror. I would do my best to get the attention of my family by moaning and hitting the wall beside my bed. Many times a member of my family would come and release me, and I would know the second they entered the room and could watch them wake me. This has been happening since I was 17 years old and I have almost gotten used to it. Sometimes the "place" seems a lot worse than other times. Can a person be dreaming but completely concious?


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JoeZuke, I think you might be experiencing "sleep paralysis". A google search will bring up much information. Here are a couple of sites you might want to check out;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html

http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html

http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P2.html

Hope this helps... :idea:

Bro Dave
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Thanks Bro, I checked out those web sites and I think that is exactly what the problem is.


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Re a Comparison

a person working at Wal-Mart doing some unpleasant job is
living a life of dependable, responsible, not-exciting SERVICE to an extent..... whereas a person who meditates 12 to 20 hrs a day is living a life of escapism and is producing Zero Service.

If hyper-meditation is a good thing, I believe Jesus would have said something like this:

"Disciples, meditate constantly. People like Fatboy2 will say you are living a self-deluded life, a useless life, a 'silly life.' Ignore those who do not understand. Do not worry about being a good brother, sister, worker, neighbor. Meditate, meditate, meditate. Seek God - not in Participation - but in more meditation."

Some meditation helps. So does education, family life, prayer, reflection, friendships with healthy people, and consultation.

Maybe even peanut butter and jelly!! Yes, I accept that life requires Participation. Responsibility as a socially functioning soul.

p.s.

In former yrs, I assumed endless hrs of 'candle-staring' and meditation brought one closer to God. Hence I - like some other Westerners - admired the cave-dwelling mystical recluses. After second thoughts, discussions with hard-working Indian citizens living in Bahrain, and study, I began to believe these recluses are moving Further from God!

The bottom line Value of meditation AND OBE is whether we become: closer to God, and better practitioners of the Golden Rule.

It seems clear that Westerners who see bad stuff, like hypocrisy, in their religion, can be attracted to to a non-church, non-social arena like God-seeking mysticism. Perhaps eastern mysticism is devoid of ostensible hypocrisy. Perhaps it is also devoid of ANYTHING of value.

Final analysis?? "Show me the money!!" Show me the fruit ! What are the fruits??? Poverty? No science? No industry?? No shoes for Timmy and Tina?

I find nothing in UB to show Value in weirdness......


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I believe lack of balance is the central issue. We are drowning in our material surroundings, while the more subtitle spiritual realities seem ephemerally to slip by us. We live here, in the material, but how we live is determined by our connectivity to the ultimate reality of the non-physical. We cannot afford to ignore either part of our existence. As FB said, withdrawing from our physical reality, does not automatically move us towards God.
God created this physical, material existence for a reason… US!
To ignore this gift, is to denigrate the Giver, or at least to fail to appreciate its intend purpose; Our growth. Life is rough and tumble! It is supposed to be. Or for sure it will be until we have learned the lessons life is trying to teach us. If we insist on ignoring the spiritual assistance being offered, those lessons will be long and painful. But, if we try to ignore the material life-lessons, and close our eyes to them, focusing only on the non-physical, we enter in that never ending cycle of repetitions rather similar to the Eastern religions fixations with reincarnation. :shock:

Bro Dave :wink:

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IMperfection... the REAL Gift.


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As with everything in life, balance is the key. However you choose to commune with God and at what time and place is whatever feels best for that person. But i also believe that God sees it more fitting that you have all your earthly duties done before you sit to commune. Unless you need a moment with him in order to "face" the day.

I had a neighbor from where i moved. He was truely intelligent, far knowledged in metaphysics, meditations, etc. etc... always making "healing formulas that didn't involve doctors..... and he believed himself correct. He also suffered from paranoia about the government watching his everymove............ just a really out there kind of guy.

He does not work, his wife works and supports the family. She's a waitress. He was lucky enough that his parents paid for his house or they would be homeless. All the while he is taking this time to " make himself' higher or more enlightened, it is robbing the others in his family of their time to do so also. Because they have to take on the weight of responsibilties of daily life.

Again, balance. God would not have put us here if there was nothing to learn from the experience. Sitting in a room trying to reach the next level -- though great for somethings-- is NOT the purpose of this life. The purpose of this life is to master it and all that it has to be learned from. If we cannot take care of ourselves physically and work responsibly in this life, and can we possibly expect to move further spiritually? Because of this man, both he and his wife will be at the beginning of the morontia experience after all the suffering in this life, because they were unable to complete anything, both materially and spiritually.

My opinion, focus on whats' ahead of you. Take care of your daily responsibilities first. You can learn much of the way Jesus lived just by doing that, and be an example of him. After that, if you wish to spend time in other enlightening experiences , by all means. Do.

My opinion
Angel


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Dear Friends,

Well stated. Book 148 Jesus tells us -

"It is the Father's will that mortal man should work persistently and consistently toward the betterment of his estate on earth. Intelligent application would enable man to overcome much of his earthly misery."


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I would seem that the material and spiritual growth overlap each other. Life brings hardship which causes effort resulting in knowledge which leads to wisdom. All this progress is assisted by whatever level of spirituallity one may have at any point. However, as we move towards wisdom, we also move towards spirituality, and the process reinforces itself. What a wonderful design! :wink:

AIMHO,
Bro Dave :smile:

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IMperfection... the REAL Gift.


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Bro Dave,

Doesn't UB cover it ALL??? wow!! In PAPER 178 :

"You are not to be passive mystics or colorless ascetics; you should not become dreamers and drifters, supinely trusting in a fictitious Providence to provide even the necessities of life."

says Christ Michael
.......we all give thanks for UB......


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A moderator said, earlier in this post:"I would also like to suggest that we keep this topic to "individual" experiences of our own spiritual journey and not try to align our experiences with that of Christ Michael." There are lots of things I might refer to to explain the trouble I have here, but I will use this quote as an example. Either there has been an inadequate use of words in this quote, or its author simply has a dynamically different perspective of things at large, and in general, from myself. There are many 'believers' in Christ whose devotion is to see and do everything such that they move to being aligned with Christ. (That Which is Christ is indivisible, and the absence of my use of the word Michael here does not, then, exclude, Christ Michael.) Any real experience occurs within God's Domain and Vision. If someone on the site offers to share an experience, it is fair to assume that, to them it has been 'real' and deserves its mention. If the experience is not presented to them in terms that evidently or directly correspond with the Urantia Book, it remains for the individual an apparently real experience. I am glad that when I mentioned the most profound and life-changing incident in my own life, that I did not encounter any presumptuous doubters at Truthbook. The experience remains truly precious to me. The One I observed (observing and blessing me) did not where a name tag, nor say "I am 'so-and-so' ". It was not nesessary. I know who it was. If it had been someone outside the Judeao-Christian tradition, would my mention of it been welcome?

I hesitate to say that I will not return to this Truthbook site. The people who have been considerate, even loving, towards me know who they are. I have encounterred little hostility. Nevertheless, I have been fairly cautious in my 'speaking' for reasons such as the above indicates. I do declare! If I got to 'Heaven's Gate' and was asked if I was a Urantia Book Reader, would I want to enter? if that were a criterion?

I venture to say that every person at this site is probably aware of the tendency of humans to ally themselves to books as if God did not exist without them. A truly good book refers much to "God", because its author(s) know the book alone is so much paper and ink.

There are people, such as myself, who on occasion have been, or even remain, as people who require demonstrations before accorded "facts" are accepted to be such. I depend on God for any such demonstrations- if God thought I was able to determine fact from fiction I would require no demonstrations. But I assure you, I am not capable of doing that when it comes to the contents of the Urantia Book.

It might not even be appropriate for me to visit and re-visit Truthbook because I am not currently engaged in using it daily or in a devotional-type way. It has been UB "readers" that motivated me to re-open its pages, and I have not discoverred any statements in it that undo the very reasons I have had for putting it away in the first place. ( I did not throw it away, which is more than I can say for the Bible, after a pathetic evening amidst some very superficial "Christians".)

I do not find it beneficial to my heart's calm to engage in battles of words, which is about as much as we Internet users can 'put on the table'.

I sympathize with the passion this Book has inspired in so many of its readers, but I cannot accommodte, personally, all of what I've found in it, because I cannot validate it, nor see its authors. It lends itself to an awful lot of unresolved speculation for me.
To finish, I would like to say that I deem it better that a person fall in love with God than with a book. If someone manages to do this, never having read a single book, I'd say they are doing supremely well. And, just as I cannot say, for certain, what is true in the UB, neither can I say, for sure, that such a miracle has never happened. Dave

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"...it is the nature of the Sons of God to give every created being a full and equal choice for salvation and survival." Page 1566, Urantia Book


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