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Alright everyone, here goes. This will be long. And some may not believe, but Iím going to share anyways. I am open to any questions of it, sometimes I may share stuff that I dont' want to be questioned about, but this Iím okay with.

Where to start.

I suffered a lot. I wont' explain it all, but if you've heard of abuse, no matter how or why, it causes the same damage.

After I married, things were going good for me. It's almost like I had a new life. When I had my son, things were even better. Though still emotional, and still suffering the effects, I was an excellent mother.
Moving ahead, no problems. When my daughter was born, it was my second C-section. Nothing in my life came easily. Her stomach was still forming ( somehow) and she was difficult feeding. She was rushed to the emergency room at 3 months with a severe fever. But made it through. She was colic, she was hard. I was trying to keep up with her and my son.
when she was 6 months old and still colicky, which means she slept about 30 minutes at a time, I was told that my son needed corrective foot surgery on his feet. He had just turned 3. His surgery came and I had a 6 month old colicky baby, and a 3 year old in casts from his hips down. He was no longer able to walk, potty, anything. He couldnít sleep, and neither did she, so I didnít either.

This went on for 3 months. For 3 months I got on average 3 hours of sleep "total" each day. Not all at once, just cat naps. I thought things were better after they both got better, but then they still continued to be sick. They were each sick for 1 whole year.

After not being able to sleep, I became "unable" to sleep. I was unable to eat. On average I weigh 155, I was 128. Needless to say, my reality began to " change".

Coming from my background, and a complete physical exhausting year, I simply went off the edge.

Though always spiritual, the church was no help with this. At an earlier age I made ougie boards on my own. That's how I developed my skill to communicate. Before long I didn't need anything.

This is how I met 'JACK".

Still believing the Baptist doctrine, I believed jack to be evil. But with the board we began to talk continuously. TO speed things up., I actually "witnessed" to Jack. I just knew, that if he professed Christ, Christ would change him. He played the part well. He was the only one I communicated with. After a short while he professed his faith in Christ and told me he had been changed into an angel. At which time, the board really became an "issue". But, it was used strictly for our communication.

Time kept passing, and my health and emotional and mental status continued to fall. I could not make sense of my abuse, my nightmares, my fears of demons and Lucifer, it was like I was being attacked from all sides, and God did nothing. I wanted to die. There's lots of people who want to die, but I attest that I was sure.

I overdosed, I slit my wrists, each time somehow being found out by someone. I was sent to the hospital, my mother took my daughter to care for her, and my son began day care. I came back home and was all alone in the house. I pulled all the shades, sat and listened to "death" music, and cried. Jack began to tell me that I would die soon, I just had to wait. If I took my own life it would be against God's will, and I would go to hell.
Days went by, and the story continued to play out. Dates came and went, but Jack never backed off. He continued to keep my beliefs of suicide intact and I merely trusted that God had heard my plea and was going to take me on his own.

Time went on, anti-depressants kicked in, sleep came back, and I came out of darkness. But, truth was, Jack lied. But was it bad? I still believed as we were taught the devil is the father of all lies, and ougie boards could not be trusted, but was this experience actually bad for me?

I asked Jack why he lied, and he said so that you would live. I was hurt, he was a friend, and we had had many talks of God and life after death etc.....

Even so, I told Jack that all communication was off. He had lied, no matter what and that was the end. His response was, you can leave me, but I will always be by your side., Just call and I will answer. Fine.

A year went by, I left the church because it and it's teachings had failed me. I began my spiritual search and came into such new wisdom. My faith became stronger and I began to understand it all so much better, as we understand God's love today.

One day I said Jack?
He answered, yes?
I said, why didnít you tell me this, why did you lie? He said because I had to work within your beliefs at that time. I was not allowed to tell you any truths that you had not discovered on your own.

I understood, and forgave, But communication was cut again.

Imagine my surprise while reading the UB and seeing the phrase, \"We have to work with the knowledge you have now, we can't give you more than your ready for, only work to expand your knowledge.

That's not word for word, but you all know it.

So, who's Jack? Not really sure. He won't say. But he's my friend, and Iím sure he's sitting here right beside me. And he will be one of the first I see when I leave this earth. He does not give me answers, He never initiates conversations, maybe sometimes.

When certain things happen in my life, humorous things, I feel his laughter.

He's there. And I forgive him for his lies.

And I understand why he did it. And I understand now, the reason I was drawn to start the communication etc...

This is not my only experience, but the main one.

Sure he played along with my "mentality" at that point, but look where it got me. No one else could reach me, but he kept me safe, and kept God's love for me close to me.

I feel safe knowing he's around. Even though I don't communicate very often. Maybe he's my guardian angel, maybe just a friendly spirit, I don't know.

Telling any doctor at the time about my friend Jack would've kept me in the " HHHHMMMM" list a long time. But now looking back, and seeing the entire picture. It was God's intervention in my life. And I feel blessed.

Given that the UB backs up what he spoke to me about using my own knowledge and understanding at that time, I believe even more today.

So there, I know it was long, I know it's a real hard one to take. But I put it out there for ya. It's a near and dear part of my life, and I hope you respect that if you decide to respond.
Much love
Angel
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hey :smile:

Didn't mean to shut down the whole thread with my sharing.

If you don't wish to respond that's fine. But carry on with your own discussions.

I've been enjoying this thread, so don't let my last post end it all.

Much love
Angel


Last edited by angel on Wed May 18, 2005 8:31 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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angel wrote:
Hey :smile:
Didn't mean to shut down the whole thread with my sharing. If you don't wish to respond that's fine. But carry on with your own discussions.
I've been enjoying this thread, so don't let my last post end it all.
Much love
Angel

:smile: Angel, Most folks, when they hear someone elses story, can hardly wait to "one-up" it with their own. I suspect others are like I am, stunned into a bit of silence. We each have our challanges, and they see large to overwhelming. But after sharing in your experiences, mine seem small and petty. :shock:

Keep inspiring us Sis. We aren't all as strong as you! :wink:

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Last edited by Bro Dave on Fri May 13, 2005 1:50 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hello Angel I just missed a day, you know how it can be working and all.

First to Woody: I was responding to your last post prior to my reply.

You made a blanket statement about spiritual experiences without understanding or giving regard to the mentally ill, basically giving free licence to any so call experience.

Carl: donít jump the gun my friend we have just started this most interesting of dialogues and a little ground work is not a reason to fret.

Angel: Thank you for stepping up to the plate and shearing a most intriguing and heart warming journey.

I am one that is very aware of the possible critiquing that can happen when you open your self up to public scrutiny.

Hopefully no one will think I am attempting to one up you...and hear me as just another soul that is shearing.

In past post I have given some info to my transformation, leaving out the parts that I am still wanting to have a better understanding of. The first time I sheared them I got the (You must have had a psychological break-down that lead to a episode of delusion to help you cope with the stress you where in.) And that one was a mild one compared to the others that said I was on drugs or just wanting to get attention.
If it was attention;.. I didnít shear my experience for about two years after, till I was a little more able to communicate it with out sounding verbally crazy. I mean to say I didnít have a very good vocabulary at the time and didnít have the U.B. to help me put the experience in to a more cohesive understanding. Even now I can see that my experience could fall in to some mental illness criteria for a disorder.

The thing that separates me from those disorders is that it has not happen again and it changed my life for ever, and I am more functional now than I was before it happened.

I do believe my T.A. works with me and I have had insights too coincidental to be a fluke.

There are those uncanny moment of just knowing with out any reason to be leaning in that direction, that brings one to a place of just wanting to trust that it is help from a higher place.

And the more you give in to it and just trust the easier it seem to be. Not to say I hear voices, I donít, but for me it is more a form of intuitiveness. And after what happened to me, I canít say how the spiritual forces will work with one person to the next. Although I do use the Urantia Book as a guide to some degree.

It is my highest hope to traverse that Seven Psychic Circles before I die in the flesh but if I donít that is just fine with me because the journey has been wonderful.


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Jim, I just want you to know how I admire you and how far you have come since you first posted here. You were like a tight little rose bud, with obvious beauty within, and yet not quite ready to open. Well, you have not only opened, your spiritual fragrance permiates this board whenever you post.

I hope no one here thinks I was aiming that remark about "one-up'ing" at them! I was addressing humanity in general. Many folks "study spirituality", without ever actually putting it into practice. I love the way you reach out to help others. I am honored to be your Bro.

Bro Dave
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Hi all,

I second the motion of Bro Dave concerning Jim.

And i never set out to "wow" anyone, -- I just wanted this thread to go to the limit it should get to. And i set myself out in the open to lead the way. I've been looking for people who believe that God can do whatever he decides within communication with his creation, whether it is written or not.

Now though some do have to be "objectivily" looked at, as people still to this day question some of the UB, I believe it time to let God lead.

I believe that many have had experiences to share. Maybe just to shy to speak out. Heck, people go nuts over a shadow that looks like "Mary", come on. We've got more than that in our lives now don't we? (no disrespect to Mary intended)

So i look forward to more sharing, no matter how great or small it may seem to you. God in your life is a great thing. To Bro-Dave and Jim, you both have my deepest respect, and i'm so glad to know each of you.

I should go. I may be a little emotional for a few days. Gods just working with me right now. Maybe i'll share later. LOL :smile: We'll see.

Anyways, i seem to be crying at every post, so if i get all mushy on everyone just over look me. :wink:
Much blessings
Angel


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 Post subject: speaks; a grain of sand
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:smile: Hello everyone, as you all know ive been extremely quite
of late, pondering all that first occurred here towards me and my thoughts and beliefs, when first opening up to you guys; I was basically scared off of posting, and wisdom said, thats fine, stand back, quietly and watch; now I will speak, just a little. This is a most fasinating and deep spiritual conversation here, that touches my soul profoundly, it is good medicine to see you all speaking of topics such as this, with love, not judement of others spiritual experiances and personal beliefs/and or searching for truth.
As we all travel to reach the top of the mountain we all take different routes, some perhaps harder roads to travel, some easier, all depending on what that souls development has need of; by their own souls choice, before ever incarnating, perhaps. Although the paths differ, the destination is the same, to reach the sumit, the mountaintop, glory, paradise!!!
I can relate to everyones veiws here, WOW!!! You guys are really brilliant!
And about the mental illness verses true spiritual experiances, the very topic ive struggled with through the years, yet now ive come to a place where it is not up for debate, it is really irrelevant to me, for ive reached a place of communion with God that supercedes some of these more human worries/ or struggles of mind to comprehend some mysteries that I shall only come to know when crossing, I dont think ill be taking the ascention, but then again we all might ascend , instead of dieing the human death!
Whos to know the future, but God, im fine either way I go as long as I get there all in one peice{peace}!!!! by the way, not kidding, what if spontaneous combustion is ascention that didnt quiet make full power?
Just wanted to throw that thought in; like a paradox{or apair of docs that hurried through surgery, yes now im gettin too silly} :wink: :roll: :razz:
Anywho, I just wanted to share a little, and all of your opinions and thoughts were to many to address individually, so take no offense at my seeming to come across in a vauge manner. Im looking forward to hearing more on this profoundly intriging disscussion, remember, I see myself as one grain of sand, insignificant without all the other gazzillions that make us together, the sweet shores , kissed by God , the ocean.

Love to all, peace Tam/whitewolf strongheart- :smile: :wink:

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Has anyone here read ( The Road Less Traveled ) by Scot Peck.

In the Chapter on Grace he talks about how science and psychology have many accounts of this thing they call Grace for lack of any-other word they can fit for what they experience.

I really like the account of the Rose Beetle that made the connection with his client. you canít tell me that that wasnít some form of spiritual help.

I believe that if we open our eyes we may see many time that the spiritual world has been working with and for us all our lives, in such creative way that we just over looked them at the time.


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I've just got through the posts, and this is some good stuff. Though often mis-interpreted; "Turn on. Tune in. Drop out.", does have merit.

There are translations of the Jesus teaching that suggest that he came to set son against the father. To me, this is simply a matter of the virtual reality that overtakes an individual while growing up in this world.

I mean by this that the younger generation should not have to suffer the sins of their fathers. Or, why repeat/foster a perverted reality. Here, we could define that as alternate reality and judge it by the fruit it bears.

Personally, I don't consider things like devine intervention, but rather that under stress or discipline, we lose hold of the \"accepted\" virtual reality of the society(world) and can sometimes see whats really out there.

There was earlier mention as disassociative behaviors and Jesus seems to have also suffered from that problem! Lest we forget and not understand.


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Hello Friends,

This thread is shaping up. Thank you Whitewolf for you heartfelt sharing. I have found that it's best not to put limits on God.
Quote:
Urantia mortals have varying concepts of the miraculous, but to us who live as citizens of the local universe there are few miracles, and of these by far the most intriguing are the incarnational bestowals of the Paradise Sons. The appearance in and on your world, by apparently natural processes, of a divine Son, we regard as a miracle--the operation of universal laws beyond our understanding. Jesus of Nazareth was a miraculous person.

In and through all this extraordinary experience, God the Father chose to manifest himself as he always does--in the usual way--in the normal, natural, and dependable way of divine acting.P.1331 - ß5

The quote above suggests that often what we humans call a miracle is just God doing what he always does. Our problem is that we don't really know what constitutes "normal." I think that if we spent 1 hour on a normal world, all of our own gross abnormalities, ones we never dreamed we had, would become startlingly apparent to us. Even so, God loves us enough to give us extraordinary help. I think this is what the parable of the "Lost Sheep" is all about.

I absolute agree that "manifestations" as such are not normal. Sadly, most planets have a very real and important manifestation that we don't. That, of course, is the representation of the universal government in the form of divine administrators called Adam and Eve, operating from a visible planetary headquarters for the duration of the evolution of a planet. I doubt that normal evolving beings ever spend one moment of time wondering if they are "alone" in the cosmos.
It makes life down here more than a little interesting.

Gary, welcome! You said:
Quote:
Personally, I don't consider things like divine intervention, but rather that under stress or discipline, we lose hold of the "accepted" virtual reality of the society (world) and can sometimes see what's really out there.

This is a very thought provoking statement. Hmmm, I'll have to ponder this for a while. I think Viktor Frankl would have to agree with you though

Love to all....Paula


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:? my silly human emoticons are acting up tonight, to come on and see that out of everyone here that knows me, only Paula even akcnowledged my presence, thanks Paula , maybe im being too sensitive (I am prone to that) but after all that happened when i first arrived, then shut my mouth; it hurt my feelings that all you old-timers to this site, completely ignored my post, ghost the poster- no more, call me childish or whatever, but i have tryed way too hard to be excepted here, it just isnt goin happen i see. when i did as asked, then timidly and courageously spoke up;very sweetly, its like, oh whitewolf is invisible, ok, yes, my feelings are hurt, sorry im half human, just tell me if you guys dont want me here, God wants me, thats ALL that matters--- :cry:

Tammy/whitewolf

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Tammy,

I have read and enjoyed reading your posts, I am sorry for being insensative to the fact that you might need some feed back. I take for granted that you see the smile you give me when you are being silly.

I for one find that I don't even have time lately to read all that I want to here, let alone reply...
but, I keep coming back and soon enough I'll have a couple easy days to myself and you'll see me stinking up all the discussions...promise.

Enough already with the being accepted here stuff Wolfie....You are loved and appreciated by many of us here.

Just keep sharing freely your thoughts and your heart. I love reading your posts. Soon enough you will see my heart....

All my love Whitewolf


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Tammy, I too apologise for not getting back more quickly, but life has many vectors that demand attention, and you post was long enough to deserve an indepth reply. So, let me address it now;
whitewolf strongheart wrote:
:smile: Hello everyone, as you all know ive been extremely quiet of late, pondering all that first occurred here towards me and my thoughts and beliefs, when first opening up to you guys; I was basically scared off of posting, and wisdom said, thatís fine, stand back, quietly and watch; now I will speak, just a little. This is a most fascinating and deep spiritual conversation here, that touches my soul profoundly, it is good medicine to see you all speaking of topics such as this, with love, not judgment of others spiritual experiences and personal beliefs/and or searching for truth.

This, as it turns out, is more a goal than an every day achievement!
Quote:
As we all travel to reach the top of the mountain we all take different routes, some perhaps harder roads to travel, some easier, all depending on what that souls development has need of; by their own souls choice, before ever incarnating, perhaps. Although the paths differ, the destination is the same, to reach the sumit, the mountaintop, glory, paradise!!!

Tammy, in those few words, you have managed to package pretty much what the world needs to come to understand. That is, we all are unique; It is the one trait that we all share!
Quote:
I can relate to everyoneís views here, WOW!!! You guys are really brilliant!
And about the mental illness verses true spiritual experiences, the very topic Iíve struggled with through the years, yet now Iíve come to a place where it is not up for debate, it is really irrelevant to me, for Iíve reached a place of communion with God that supercedes some of these more human worries/ or struggles of mind to comprehend some mysteries that I shall only come to know when crossing, I donít think Iíll be taking the ascension, but then again we all might ascend , instead of dying the human death!
Whoís to know the future, but God, Iím fine either way I go as long as I get there all in one piece{peace}!!!! by the way, not kidding, what if spontaneous combustion is ascension that didnít quiet make full power?

LOL! Lucky for us, that does not happen! Apparently it is the literal fusion with your adjuster that causes the combustion of the material shell, and there is no possibility of a ìpartial fusionî as I understand it.
Quote:
Anywho, I just wanted to share a little, and all of your opinions and thoughts were to many to address individually, so take no offense at my seeming to come across in a vague manner. Iím looking forward to hearing more on this profoundly intriguing discussion, remember, I see myself as one grain of sand, insignificant without all the other gazillions that make us together, the sweet shores , kissed by God , the ocean.

Love to all, peace Tam/whitewolf strongheart- :smile: :wink:

That was a lovely parting note Tammy. I am so very glad you are here with us. We look forward to whatever youíd like to share.

Bro Dave :wink:

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 Post subject: a grain of sand
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Tammy, yes guys are insensitive. Mostly at all the wrong times.

I'm being interupted by my new Lady Friend, a gray cat I'm calling Miss Piggy. Opps, she heard something and is off my lap - finally.

Just joining the group myself, I really have had time only to skim the messages. To me, there where several interesting thoughts in your 2:19pm Monday post. Of course, the reference to a combustion caught my eye.

And, yes we are all like a grain of sand and you spoke of so many beutiful things. If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about death and acension because you profess to seek the truth and I have no reason to doubt that.

About my statement of devine intervention. I have at times thought myself blessed or to have received some consideration.

I think the concept of a guardian angel is important, for example. But, does God go out of his way to help me? That would be devine intervention.

I might argue that Jesus on earth was devine intervention, but I can't. Maybe this is a matter of me thinking celestial intervention and devine intervention are two seperate things - meaning they operate on different levels or realities.

The quarantine was not devine intervention, it was normal operating proceedure. If you get my drift here.

When I try to come up with a reason for God parting the Red Sea, I keep returning to a earthly fabrication.

The only thing Devine I seem to be able to grasp are the soul and spirit. It's more likely that I see devine intervention only in the divine nature of all things great and small.


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Well Whitewolf,

I hope your feelings have been comforted by all the replies given. I for one took your post as a new beginning, and was waiting for future posts from you.

In my opinion you were stating that you felt welcomed, enjoyed the topic and was looking forward to more future postings. I didn't realize i needed to respond to that. My mistake.

I guess i should've made a point to "state" that rather than just think it. So, I'm glad you're back. :smile:

And to you Gary, welcome. It's nice to have you on board, and i hope to hear more from you as well.

As for myself, I will be checking the posts daily as one of the moderators for this forum, but due to personal things going on right now, i probably won't be able to make many posts myself.

I hope no one takes offense to my silence, as it is not intended to be percieved as ignoring anyone.

Much love to all here. Forgive me of any hurtful feelings I have caused.
Blessings
Angel


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Hello everyone!!!!! Thank you bro.Dave, Mark, and Gary and anyone else watching :roll: :idea: :?:
sorry for being such a baby, im like gars feline, need alot of petting, but being single, i dont get attention at home, guess im looking here for that sometimes, but ill be more carefull to controll my emoticons from now on, maybe :wink: im looking for love in all the wrong places, searching for love in too many ghostly internet faces!!!lolo!!
im like this, this week and last----- :roll: :roll: :evil: :evil: you know , all emotional about every little and big thing, well back to the Doc i should go, wear my insanity ends, nobody knows--------------ok, ummmm, yea,,,, hhhhhmmmmmmm??
TAMMY!!! Back to earth, get on subject, i cant right now, im weirding out,
then E.T, phone home, and get some valium or something!

Whitewolf talks to her other selves sometimes, they always listen but most the time dissagree....
out for now/back later/love all!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

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