Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:26 pm +0000

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » Main » Spiritual Experiences

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 4
  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: A crisis of faith
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:53 pm +0000
Posts: 35
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Hello to all. This is my first post here. I perused the board and didn't find a thread that seemed to address my concern... so I put it here. A spiritual experience can be negative as well as positive. . .

Basically, after being a UB reader since 1975, I have experienced a catastrophic loss of faith in the book.

The short version of the story is as follows:

As a geologist I am very interested in the age of rocks and the stories they tell. In confronting Bible believers I have asked them to consider their book's story in such a way that evolution and an old-earth can fit in their concept frame, yet I find them almost always unable to entertain such thoughts, holding onto a strict interpretation of their scripture. At some point, in a quest for intellectual honesty, I decided to question my own beliefs in the UB and see if they withstood the tests I was asking Bible-blievers to endure. I failed at this task. I found instead that there were several questionable science sections of the UB that I had conveniently allowed my mind to skim past... places that I was uncomfortable with but had avoided confronting. When I really looked at them, they were completely unsupportable scientifically and in other ways... just as the biblical view of Noah's Flood is unsupportable and invalidates a strictly literalist bible viewpoint.

Having built my universe viewpoint largely upon the UB, I felt as though the rug was pulled from under my feet and I feel as though I am floating in space (from a spiritual viewpoint).

So I am confronted by thoughts like: If the UB is wrong on this... what else is wrong? I wonder about the ascension plan, and whether there are really mansion worlds... I even... and please forgive me... wonder if the very concept of deity itself is a human invention. My faith has crumbled and what's left is a slippery surface.

I just wonder if others have confronted anything of the kind? This experience took place about two years ago and I am slowly rebuilding a concept frame of the universe. I find the UB still has a place in it because of the many intriguing concepts it carries. But I no longer regard it as TRUTH... it now appeals to me alongside the works of other fantasy authors that have woven interesting ideas into their works.

I have had other UB readers tell me that I just need to read more. Well... I've read the UB a lot... at least ten times through over the years plus intensive study of many particular sections. Reading more won't help.

Be well y'all!

Thomas

_________________
Follow the TRUTH wherver it leads.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:17 pm +0000
Posts: 182
Location: U.K.
Welcome Thomas,

I have the same thoughts about all revelations, I've read a few, followed some too, today i find that i cannot accept any book as the whole truth, i just pick out what resonates for me, what i believe to be "truth"... I accept the Urantia book as truth too, but not sure which parts have errors.

Which papers do you take issue with i wonder....?


Take care


Love Sarah
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:47 pm +0000
Posts: 1394
Location: San Antonio
If i may :

Your spiritual life should not be based on a book but rather on your own experiences that are evident in you life lived.

There is in every persons life evidence to the dynamic interplay of God reaching out to us. we just have to learn how to open our eyes and see it. trust me it is there.

Stay True To The Journey
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:42 pm +0000
Posts: 2411
Location: Central New Mexico, USA
Yes, Thomas, it has happened to me at least twice. It is like my reality was turned inside out and I felt like my mind was coming apart; I was without anchor, floudering in space with nothing to grasp hold of, and it is a very terrifying feeling. It seems like a crisis in faith, and it is, but it is really more like a crisis in belief, where one belief system is being torn apart to allow for another belief system to be created. And you have all the power in the world to help formulate that new belief system which will give you a new paradigm of reality in which to live, so choose wisely. But, yes, I have had that experience and the process of having the rug pulled out from under your very perception of reality can indeed be frightening.

This too shall pass. You will be older and wiser. Maybe even on a new psychic circle.

_________________
Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:20 pm +0000
Posts: 205
Location: cookeville, tennessee
Thomas,

Welcome to our little family here, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

What are some of the parts that struck you as "completely unsupportable scientifically" ? What do you think the UB is wrong on?

Are you leaning toward some other religion right now, or are you thinking that maybe there is no God at all?

Even if the UB is wrong on one thing, there is no logical reason to throw out the whole book. Einstein was wrong about the cosmological constant, but we didn't throw out all his teachings. The UB states explicitly that it is not the Word of God--it could certainly have an error or two in it.

_________________
Spiritual progress is dependent on mental expansion--quality of thinking is the coming goal. (65:8.4 and 81:6.28)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: A crisis of faith
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:53 pm +0000
Posts: 35
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Hello to all and many thanks!

Yes perhaps more a crisis of belief than of faith, but very disconcerting.

I had come to a point of regarding the UB as TRUTH (all caps) and even though I acknowledged the caveat that the UB includes on the science info I was tending to regard the fact that the text was authored by celestial beings as indicating a virtual inerrancy.

But then I did some studying on recent findings regarding mitochondrial DNA and the resulting conclusions on human migrations and population patterns... and found that the most recent data diverges ever more and more from the Sangik story. It now seems completely ludicrous to me that the origin of the human population was in this single family with multicolored children. The very concept of "race" is no longer supported anthropologically. So the UB story now seems hopelessly outdated and tinged with racialist overtones that I find distinctly distasteful.

So if it's not true... then the question arises as to why the revelators would insert patently false information. They could have skirted the question if certain information was not authorized for revelation, but it was unnecessary to falsify a story. So that thought led me to question the veracity of the book itself, to question the conventional wisdom that no human could have written it. I don't think I could have written it... but then I could not have written THE LORD OF THE RINGS and the SILMARILLION either, and those works of fantasy comprise a body of work approaching the UB in complexity. And if it could be true that a human or consortium of humans could have written the book... then that throws into question EVERYTHING in the book... everything!

So what I am finding is that there are certain core matters of "faith" that seem to be intact within me, but that the connection to this book is broken or dissolved. I find that many concepts I hold still have their origin to my mind in the UB, yet I now regard them as mere possibilities rather than certainties. Mostly it is a bit frightening to abandon something I felt certain of in favor of something uncertain. But also there is something very freeing about it... like heading out on the road with a full tank of gas, a fat wallet, and a trunk full of camping gear... I don't know where I'm going but I know it will be okay.

A doubter in search of TRUTH

Thomas

_________________
Follow the TRUTH wherver it leads.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 am +0000
Posts: 1773
p291:3 26:5.3 That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: "In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:08 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:20 pm +0000
Posts: 205
Location: cookeville, tennessee
"It now seems completely ludicrous to me that the origin of the human population was in this single family with multicolored children. The very concept of "race" is no longer supported anthropologically."

Thomas, the UB does not say that the origin of the human population was in the Sangik family. The colored races came along later. (page 711-722).


Iris, I've really missed reading your posts--so glad to see you back.

_________________
Spiritual progress is dependent on mental expansion--quality of thinking is the coming goal. (65:8.4 and 81:6.28)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:35 am +0000
Posts: 562
Thomas Didymus,

Hi Thomas, welcome to the "i want the UB to be a fetish but it can't be" club. Now that we realize that the book itself was not intended to be the "thing" to worship, we are free to worship the God that inspired it.

I have had the same experience as you and those seasons of doubt have made me stronger.

The revelators or author of the book make it clear, we have something to tell you at this time, we are going to use things that man had already known/discovered throughout history to present a picture to you that you can recognize. Our picture can only be a calage, it can't be a final product. The concepts that we have to present to you are so over your head that we have to warp them just to be able to explain them to you.

It's ironic that you chose Thomas as your moniker (for obvious reasons). Even the apostles, both in the Bible and the UB, saw the most extraordinary things, yet, they lost their faith at the drop of a hat. This is proof that it doesn't matter how spectacular revelation is, we "loose the opportunity while looking for a four leaf clover".

And what about science, it gets the rug pulled out from under it as well, the universe view of just a short time ago has changed, and that one was a departure from the cherished beliefs of earlier science.

In the case of Michael, they gave him preincarnate instructions to the effect of, don't mess with anything while your there, but reveal something new to them......which subsiquently changed the world. Yet some would argue that 12 Jewish fisherman made up the story, left their sacred religion, gave all their material wealth to the poor, flouted the sacred law, cast themselves as anti-heroes, falling short in understanding their God-man, one would become a betrayer, another would deny his master, all for the crowning insult of becoming outcast among there own people. All this only to be eclipsed by the fact that it was women who first believed in the resurrection while the boys were off hiding.

Maybe you need to read the book less, not more. Over analyzing can lead to missing the forest due to the imperfection of some of it's trees. This is like the Pharisees who would witness something miraculous but then reply, "hey look, he doesn't wash his hands before he eats".

"But who say you that I am?" "You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God." And the eleven sitting apostles arose to their feet with one accord, thereby indicating that Peter had spoken for all of them.
"This has been revealed to you by my Father. The hour has come when you should know the truth about me. But for the time being I charge you that you tell this to no man. Let us go hence."


thanks


Colter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:09 pm +0000
Posts: 1817
Good insights. Just for emphasis I'll add that the purpose of The Urantia Book is not to lead us to faith through undisputed facts -- it's to give us the facts we need to help strengthen or build our faith. Anyone choosing to base their faith on facts alone is choosing a path of disappointment; you can have one without the other; you can have both as substantiation to one another. What you can't have with The Urantia Book is the kind of irrefutable proof that allows one to become a radical book-thumping fundamentalist.

For a refreshing discussion on race and other UB related issues please check out the BlogTalkRadio interview with Pato Banton at
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cosmicciti ... antia-Book
Larry
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Thomas, welcome my brother. :smile:

I really believe you’ve come to the right place. And I don’t think your search for TRUTH and your faith in GOD is any small part in the Path that brought you here. Already by the number of response s you have received already to first post, I can see there is something very moving and touching in what you say.

But before I get into that, although I’m very excited and thankful for the opportunity you, through your Love of the truth have presented us, I’d like to thank you for being here. You bless us with your question. One that perhaps ALL of us have faced at one time or another in our lives. May God’s Peace continue to be with you and your search for truth continue to guide you.

As a youngster perhaps for the age of 6 or 7, influenced by my grandfathers interest in rocks and minerals, I became fascinated by rocks. And those with colorful and diverse crystalline structures fascinated me most. My grandfather lived in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, in area rich in mineral deposits. An area of the Old Gold Rush era, where the Mountain Miwok Tribe lived for thousands of years in harmony with their natural surroundings which included Yosemite Valley that was about an hours drive further ascending the slopes of the Sierra Nevada.

This led to an interest in geology, then Mineralogy and final metallurgy before I change direction into the Religious, sociological and psychological fields.

But I have never lost my childhood fascination of rocks and their development. I only tell you because I love your avatar picture and am tickled by the fact that you are a geologist.

I hope you find this pursuit you follow here of enjoyable eternal value just as I presume your pursuits in geology have given you enjoyment of geological Time knowledge, value and appreciation.

I will give you some links here that I hope will help you in the areas you have expressed. Including Doubt and Science.

I’ve been trying to gather as many TUB related Science and TUB science links here to make it easier to study and find other scientific work of TUB science. There are SO MANY. I’ve just begun. I was frustrated when I couldn’t find any TUB work done on the Mediterranean Basin flooding a few weeks ago and started this Page for future studies. I or anyone else might like to pursue. I found it difficult trying to find all the different TUB science stuff there is on the Internet. And there’s WAY MORE than these few I’ve gather so far.

Science and The Urantia Book (TUB)HERE

Quote:
then I did some studying on recent findings regarding mitochondrial DNA

Science Stuff and The Urantia Book (TUB)
HERE

Quote:
and the resulting conclusions on human migrations and population patterns...

Check out these links and the links within.

Wow!!!! Recent archeological findings confirm UB
HERE

Help me out
HERE

Thomas, you mentioned:
Quote:
I perused the board and didn't find a thread that seemed to address my concern

This one might be similar

There is no evidence to suggest that there is a GodHERE

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:47 pm +0000
Posts: 1394
Location: San Antonio
I have to commend all of you on some very well said and structured respnces to a honest plea.

I have no response for you Thomas for my fellows here have said more and better than I could have said.

The Journey Is Yours ..Stay True To it.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
lwatkins wrote:
Good insights. Just for emphasis I'll add that the purpose of The Urantia Book is not to lead us to faith through undisputed facts -- it's to give us the facts we need to help strengthen or build our faith. Anyone choosing to base their faith on facts alone is choosing a path of disappointment; you can have one without the other; you can have both as substantiation to one another. What you can't have with The Urantia Book is the kind of irrefutable proof that allows one to become a radical book-thumping fundamentalist.

For a refreshing discussion on race and other UB related issues please check out the BlogTalkRadio interview with Pato Banton at
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cosmicciti ... antia-Book
Larry


Thanks for the excellent comment Larry. I've found what you have said to be true myself.

I especially thank you for the BLOG TALK I missed it this weekend.

God Bless You ALL, my friends. I'm blessed to be able to receive your sharing. :smile:

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:37 pm +0000
Posts: 1471
Location: Hawaii
Aloha and welcome Thomas to our forum. I too found the UB in 1975...

This came to mind when I read your post...


102:1.3 Owing to the isolation of rebellion, the revelation of truth on Urantia has all too often been mixed up with the statements of partial and transient cosmologies. Truth remains unchanged from generation to generation, but the associated teachings about the physical world vary from day to day and from year to year. Eternal truth should not be slighted because it chances to be found in company with obsolete ideas regarding the material world. The more of science you know, the less sure you can be; the more of religion you have, the more certain you are.

Keep diggin...you'll find your answers. We are all seekers...right? :wink:

_________________
A fellow Agondonter...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:37 pm +0000
Posts: 1471
Location: Hawaii
P.S. I work for a large telescope and the wonderful folks I work with are on the cutting edge of science/space. They have alot to learn. My dream is for someone to read the UB :!: Still haven't found the right time, person or place to show them "The Master's Universe" but I will...

God Bless.....

_________________
A fellow Agondonter...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 4
  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Main » Spiritual Experiences

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google Feedfetcher

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Switch to mobile style
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group