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Still wondering what we really saw.

Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:03 pm +0000

A few years ago, my wife and I were out strolling along the bank of a small river, discussing the Urantia book, among other spiritual topics. We had arrivied at few explanations about anything. In mock defeat I raised my hands toward the sky, which was heavilly overcast and said, " So....give me a sign ". Immediately a hugh medium gray cloud shaped itself into a very flat smooth surface and it was as tho an unseen knife cut the shape of a cross in the cloud. I was amazed and to confirm what I was seeing I turned to my wife and told her to turn around, which she did. I then said to her, " when you turn around, I want you to look over my shoulder and tell me what you see ". She looked and then said, " I see the figure of Christ ". I immediaetly turned and I could not believe what we were seeing. The cross was gone but there was the figure of Christ still being cut with that unseen knife. It bore a strong resemblance to the figure on the hilltop in Rio de Janero, the outstreched arms, robe etc.. in another instant it was gone. We recievied no spiritual awakening, no insights; rather , a mild confusion. We still discuss it at times but are still wondering ...what ... why ... etc. Any comments would be appreciated. We are seniors and have read the book.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:38 am +0000

Hi cudel,
I am a Christian and a strong believer of Christ; therefore God. Been a student of TUB lately and a very grateful one.

This saying means alot to me: ' Seek not to understand so that thow mayest believe, but believe so that thou mayest understand.' - Augustine of Hippo.

The spiritually enligthened souls knows and experient God, while the temporal minds finds it difficult to comprehend. I believe God has his own ways and means to communicate with his children, he knew our spiritual state of progress and therefore responded accordingly without going against the comfort level and the free agency of his children.

No spiritual happenings will happen with the experience if we seek to finds explanation with the temporal mind, but the very experience itself and of the moment is a big spiritual lesson if we comprehend it via the spiritual eyes;thus grwoing by it. The very fact that it is being remmebered and cherished in our heart for quite sometime and being moved by it, that by itself is spiritual enough; if we care to see.


Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:59 am +0000

Dear BABUK........AMEN.


Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:56 pm +0000

This is my 2nd post. In 1976 I was contemplating suicide (divorce, ruined career and subsequent alcoholism), went into a church after 20 years, and prayed for help, knowing God is there. I was immediately taken to Heaven (I saw the Earth moving away in the distance, and a big male Angel had me by the hand. I was then before a glowing (like neon) throne with a person on it (I could see the human form), but I couldn't see the face, hands or feet which were obscured by a mist. I knew that was Jesus. Then the Angel showed me around, including seeing other human forms which appeared to be made of something like ether (as I could see through it), and their dwellings (2 story but no uniform windows and doors, looked like stucco in the Middle East). I also saw a Center of Learning, talked "thought talk" with the Angel, and all of the colors were really vivid, nothing like Earth. Then I was returned to Chapel, and passed out. When I awakened, I knew all was (and is) well. After 14 years of reading the Bible, Swedenborg, Cayce, the Moody "Near Death Experiences, and others who claimed to have seen Heaven and Angels, I found TUB. I've been reading it consistently for 19 years.

I'm well educated, Philosphy in undergrad and then Law School. I'm now 70. I was so overwhelmed that the experience is still vivid. It was like witnessing the Transfiguration (which I had never read about prior), or something similar. Believers I tell about it never seem to question me, and old time Pentecostals describe it as "being slain in the Spirit". Non believers look at me like I'm crazy.

TUB explains it all for me, as nothing else ever has. I won't go into all that I have learned by reading it, nor any other conclusion other than Jesus is "the Way" spiritually. And, even after having such an experience, one must still live here and deal with the every day problems encountered, and know there is no salvation from "the accidents of space and time", but Jesus will go through them with you, and help you reconcile them. And, I have experienced God daily, in very human ways. I of course have a heightened awareness of the lack of God in many people's lives, and a heightened sense of empathy and compassion, and realize why Jesus could be so forgiving, kind, merciful, and loving where we have such trouble with it, as that is greater evidence that He and the Father are one.

I simply share this so that others may have a witness in one who is just as human as they, and who confirms that belief, faith and then Grace are the answer. I also tend to believe that one must be under severe stress before they can receive and live through such an experience, and, I believe it was in answer to my prayer.

Warm regards

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:42 pm +0000

Hi teobeck,

Tq very much for your sharings.
I didn't have my NDE (Near Death Experience)but learning and believing of it thru the spirit thru some spiritual promting; becos i pray and ask for it.

I was having my faith crisis more than 15 years ago. And so i prayed about it; asking God to show me truths regarding all these things. I pray that i would only believe if a dead man coming back to life and tell the tale ( i supposed these kind of sources are at least much better than all those prohets and mediums and channels and religions).

Then some spiritual happening happened to me after my prayers ( i had my first when i was about 9 years old way back then./ refer to my posting-spiritual experience) I was prompted to read NDEs - Dr Rymond Moody, Dr. Kobhler Ross. Dr. Sabom, Swedenborge, materials /sketics and believers alike. I compiled volumes of all these experiences - curious to know, to learn and to compare. After reading all these experiences, oneday i was so move inside; out of control that i went into my room, crying (btw, my wife didn;t knew about it!) The beauty and messages of it all effected me so profoundly that i was walking on the clouds for months. I found that people jsut couldn' understand when i tried to relate to them.

To know more, i tried many spiritual books and teachings while keeping myself open. It was then that i was led to UB. These is when i am a leader ( a volunteer) of a church in my country and still is now. My background is social science and humnaity and still working as a programme producer in our local broadcasting station.
I ever thought of compiling the NDE of our local people but do not know how to start.
I have a strong feeling that people like you and many others know much more of things which ordinary mortal cannot comprehend. People like you has some purposes for fellow mortal beings to learn from.

I was warn by friends and my higher priests and supposedly educated associates that such experiences was of the devil or illusion of the mind;- for me, we are yet to understand that this animal beings is not the real life and existence but the spiritual is and that it is as tangible and real. for eternity that is. But all is our mind. When we are there later on, we will only see /be shown things which we believed in our mind and subconcious; then slowly we will learn to accept these spirits reality.

God bless.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:48 am +0000

These post, were forbidden by the adminstration of truthbook, I find that the administration has not warned you like I was warned. I to have had some remarkable visions and my attempt to reveal them were squashed. It realy hurts when a brother decides to select one, Me, to admonish me about TA talking to us, visions, etc. Narrow mindedness, Hypocracy, etc.

In brotherly love....Jess

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:38 pm +0000

I doubt that I would be warned for telling the truth about seeing the Lord, especially when it was in answer to prayer. He saved my life. I believe that He would do that for anyone who asked in faith. If this thread didn't engender and request such testimony, I wouldn't have posted. I realize this is cyberspace, and wouldn't mislead anyone for any reason. At my age and weight, what would be the purpose?

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:52 pm +0000

Hey Jess...try to not to take it too personally.

But speaking for myself, personally...I believe that the "personal" revelations, in whatever form they may take, are meant for that person. My experiences would be meaningless to someone else and were given in a "moment" of great need. It's also entirely possible that I can misunderstand what I am given and if I repeat it to someone else as "truth"...it might cause harm to them. Even though I remain grateful for the assistance I received, and for the reminder that I wasn't alone in that moment of need, I somehow understood that I couldn't live my life in a search for more of those little happenings; I had to accept what was given, and then use it to get on with my life...because THIS IS IT...this is the moment that is important.

One of the consequences of simple acceptance (for me) was a growing trust in what surrounds me, which meant (to me) that ALL had to be surrounded by that same positive Unseen Love. And that has led me to trust that each will receive what each needs, when they need. I still have that tendency to not trust others but it has lessened considerably because I'm reminded that I'm really not the one in control (thankfully). And whenever I find myself in another of those ego struggles of trying to kick-the-universe-in-the-shins-to-make-it-do-what-I-want-it-to-do...one of those memories of little happenings comes back to mind...and I can again let go of my need to control because I know that I know so very little.

To take it a little further and give an example of what may harm another:

Several years ago I was present in a gathering and witnessed one person speak in depth of a life-changing spiritual experience she had had about a year previously. I had no reason not to believe her but my attention was focused on one young male sitting nearby, quietly listening. His entire body language began to change as he sank lower and lower into his chair. He finally spoke up and asked, "Does this mean that because I haven't had an experience like that that I'm not loved as much"? He looked so stricken with sorrow...such a terrible deep sadness enveloped him. (I did speak to him in private later and hopefully was able to help him somewhat).

I learned about the possibility of causing harm about 20 years earlier when I was also very excited about sharing one of my early experiences. And I watched in horror as my older sister ran out of the room in tears, crushed by that thought..."maybe I'm not loved as much". I never again want to run the risk of causing that level of pain in another human being.

We all have our intimate and unique experiences with God. I have come to believe that they are to be treasured and held in trust...and used in our lives to help others...without others even being aware of our help.

I'm glad that you responded, Jess. I needed the reminder of how fragile we human beings really are...deep inside where no one but God can see.


PS...I'll let Larry speak on behalf of what is or is not acceptable regarding this topic. I just needed to unload a bit. :-$
Last edited by jak on Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:04 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:59 pm +0000

Hi Bro. Jess,

I'm sorry if it is
What ever it is, i did got some hint about it somewhere in this forum, and as such, i know my limit.

As i have mentioned somewhere earlier, this forum is very much western line of thought. I can understand why such outworldly topic is treated with caution, while at the same time, i agree with the wisdom of not letting a free rein in this particular globally accessible site. I would disagree very much if the authocratic authority of the institutionalize religion is allow to infect this group; the very reason people seek for new freshness in spiritual knowldege and perspective is to escape from this myopic clasp of institutionalized religions of the world; we all knew what it could do to the intellectual and spiritual growth of human being. Lets not allow ones own personal opinion and perspective dictate the views and experience of others, for the very reason that non is ultimate and final. This site/group presence all members of UB fellowship with a tangible and practical means of practcing the very essence of the Master's teaching -- free agency with loving guidance and compassion for fellow urantians.

I am very well aware of the fact that nobody invites me to come in here but myself. therefore and like wise, i hope i can found real growth within this group and continue learning for a longtime to come.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:15 pm +0000


Yes Babuk This discussion occured on a posting concerning drug use originally posted by J Barry. "ADJUSTER WARNING ABOUT USING DRUGS" Asides from suggesting using a "legal" drug in California and 7 other states I also demonstrated my communications with my TA. Mr. Larry Watkins chose to chasties me for the "legal" drug use as well as the use of my TA. He has very convinently remove the remarks made of the use of my TA. He acknowledges removing the last statement but doesn't acknowledge removing the following post he also removed from a Statement made by Slyde, Where Slyed inquires of my experiences with my TA, something I would of very proudly explained to Slyed and anybody else.

I've reduced my participation with this website, because like Fishingmom we smell a fish spoiling. Frankly I don't think we have the Balls to find room for and excuse me. But I will continue to participate because there are some very fine people here and why should I choose to stop because of narrow mindedness and preconsived opinions.

In brotherly love.........Jess

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:50 pm +0000

Thanks jak -- your comments were perfectly in line.

Yes, even though we know it can be upsetting, we do edit and/or delete posts. That's what administrators do. As jak has suggested, don't take it too personally -- but of course that's easier said than done. We'll all still be under administrator authority of some kind clear to Havona so realizing that now is a useful exercise in developing some measure of humility.

I have my own opinions about where "Adjuster contact" is actually coming from but that's not the reason such discussions are discouraged here. As it's been said before, if it is your Adjuster then the message is meant for you; your Adjuster messages aren't intended to be meaningful to anyone other than you -- therefore, don't post what you think your Adjuster communicates. If it's not your Adjuster then we wouldn't want that message either would we. Some things really are intended to be personal, not always shared, but if you feel compelled to share do so privately or via email, just not here.

Best wishes,

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:52 am +0000

jak babuk, Jess, lwatkins and others:
I had forgotten that open cyberspace forums could be interpreted other than what the person intended - this is why Jesus recommended always being with some other believers and not being alone - of course it is not necessary to have such personal spiritual experiences so as to believe and have faith, we are all different, and each of us believes and develops differently, which is what Jesus said was the reason that He and the Apostles didn't write anything down when He was here, even the Apostles had different views. He knew we were all too human.

JAK's comments were well said, with much empathy and compassion, and I agree. If you trust the Spirit of Truth you will get through the "transition" between the life in the flesh and life in the spirit. Paper 159 is very instructive. It states:

"Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.

The paper also embodies JAK's statements, and I subscribe to it as well.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:11 pm +0000

Well said Bro.Teobeck,

Right now we are actively involved in the very thing we seek; ie learning. Note this world is but just a huge clssroom with 6 billion students! This forums is one truly effective instrument. Learning, growing and preparing for what? We all know the answer.

yes bro.jess,
i now got a clearer picture after reading of bro. williams's respond to your thread. i think i understand their concerned about a personal and seemingly declarative and authoritative kind of material. i think it is a matter of presentation on our part and not much of the content. To me, if your experience gives opportunity for me to learn from; good or bad, then i have no issue about it. Of course i have my own discretion and judgment about what others say. I trust myself.

I did read a book entitle " The Food Of the Gods" - the use of drugs by shamans, prohets and gurus of old , primitive priests (btw, our shaman still do that but it doesn't goes well with me) and religious heads and modern day manipultions by man and religious leaders and groups and how it effects the brain and the mind, but that is not an enough findings to conlude the issue. there is still room to search of its truthfulness or otherwise; or maybe we are too emprically inclined that we mislook what really there is. I do not wish to argue on things which i knew not much about, but i do wish that this forums give leeway and opportunity to creative minded and eager seekers, which i personally feel they do. We are global, don't we? so lets expect accordingly.

God bless.

Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:53 am +0000


My suggestion to br. Barry in the use of a perteculiar drug is not the offence I refer too. It has to do with talking to my TA. The messages I've received from my TA were not all for me. The visions and revelations were for everybody.ref: Acts 2:11, "Old men dream dreams and your young men shall see visions." If you have an active Spirits they WILL NOT ALWAYS BE JUST FOR YOU. The muscling of my words when they contained experiences that should be shared is what I am talking about.

Can't help but to take it personally, I was told to shut up while you and the others just went along with out no repremand, talking about your TAs. The biggest hurt was the errasur of comments made, without no explaination, other than a cover-up.


Re: Still wondering what we really saw.

Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:53 am +0000

Jess Vasquez wrote:My suggestion to br. Barry in the use of a perteculiar drug is not the offence I refer too. It has to do with talking to my TA. The messages I've received from my TA were not all for me. The visions and revelations were for everybody.ref: Acts 2:11, "Old men dream dreams and your young men shall see visions." If you have an active Spirits they WILL NOT ALWAYS BE JUST FOR YOU. The muscling of my words when they contained experiences that should be shared is what I am talking about.

So Jess, are you saying that you are a prophet, an inspired teacher of the will of God for all mankind?
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