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A place to discuss how faith experiences have changed your life.
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Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:43 am +0000


For me the U.B. explained it very well, by giving me a view of how humans had evolved there many faiths and the struggles to cling on to what was familiar while attempting to reach for the new and higher truths.

We U.B. readers are no different today. I have been to many conferences and as i was off to my first conference i had in my mind all kinds of ideas about the like minded conversations I would have once i got there and experiencing every one, but to my dismay i found the U.B. community just like every other community on this planet. Full of individuals that think for themselves and have there own bend on what they read and understand, and in some of the cases I could not even begin to understand some of the things some of the persons where coming up with.

But i did find a rich and divers group of people that believe in growing to ever higher concepts to the best of their individual ability to reflect in themselves there greatest good.

The U.B. is a tool not a religion. it only holds truth for those that can see it.

I have met many from so many faiths that I truly believe are doing just fine with out the U.B.

Logic has to be balanced out with both a spiritual insight and a learned intelligence.

We all see intelligent persons that have no spiritual bend
They have be come to intelligent.
and we see those that are to spiritual. their heads are so high in the clouds that their ability for fantastic thinking has gone arye.
There is a chapter in the book that talks about this very think.

Spirit guidance is simple.., follow the good (Patients, Love, Understanding, Forgiveness) with in you and practice it as best you can and if you sincerely want to know God you will ...with in your own increasing ability and longing. you need no book for that.

Stay True To The Journey.

Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:25 pm +0000

Howdy Thomas! :smile: God Bless You brother along with all here.

You wrote:
"My friend, trust me, have no doubt this is very rich with gold, you must believe this or you will not find it." I run screaming. The payoff is the problem, it's too psychologically compelling to distort the mind in order to obtain the payoff.

This seems like an excellent analogy to me Thomas. Because the Payoff is “The Gold” and the “Gold” is analogous to “God”. The thing is, you KNOW "the Gold" is there somewhere from your knowledge of geology. Just like you KNOW "God" is there somewhere from the “Knowing” within your heart.

The Problem is “the friend” who’s telling you it’s there and How to get there. It’s the friend you don’t trust. In this case the friend is TUB. But is it really TUB? Isn’t it really the perspective of TUB by those “who claim” to know it? You are really objecting to "them" in this analogy, aren't you? And isn’t it really the preposterousness of your friend’s claim that is causing you to doubt that the Gold is there at all?

Here’s a few other things you wrote, lets go directly to the "Gold Map" instead of listening to what those claim jumpers are saying ABOUT the Gold Map:

Is it not hypocritical of UB believers to believe that we have found the truth while everybody else is wallowing in falsehood?

P.1260 - §3 Conceptual frames of the universe are only relatively true; they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true.

It sounds like TUB's saying Truth is Relative. No ones "wallowing in falsehood." We all have a grasp of the Truth relative to our conceptual frame of reference. Sounds like those bush wackers were setting you up. :shock:

Doesn't this attitude culminate in our regarding ourselves as somehow special... a chosen people who have all the answers?

P.1670 - §6 The teachers of the religion of Jesus should approach other religions with the recognition of the truths which are held in common (many of which come directly or indirectly from Jesus' message) while they refrain from placing so much emphasis on the differences.

Doesn’t it seem like TUB’s implying “those who claim to have all the answers” have an attitude problem?

Does this not seem dangerous to anybody besides me?

P.1452 - §2 "The wise man universalizes his heart. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Those who aspire to greatness must learn to humble themselves. In creation the Supreme became the world's mother. To know one's mother is to recognize one's sonship. He is a wise man who regards all parts from the point of view of the whole. Relate yourself to every man as if you were in his place.

It looks to me like TUB sees it like you. :o

Here’s what I see. There are fundamentalists everywhere even as readers of TUB. The comments you make seem to apply to fundamentalist type of interpretations of TUB more than they seem to apply to TUB itself.

Regardless of what your friends tell you about where the Gold is, YOU HAVE TO GO THERE AND FIND IT YOURSELF. No one is going to find it for you. Unless you have a good partner who isn’t going to swindled you,…like Christ.

I wish you and your partner lots of success in finding that Gold!

Stay away from the advice of them Greenhorns! :wink:

Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:55 pm +0000

101:4.2 Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve. [/code]

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:36 am +0000

I hope Thomas is still around. I share his experience of intellectual doubt. The Urantia Papers do offer a wonderful surviving after death story in the ascension program. I initially bought into the teaching of the Urantia Papers more or less at intellectual level. The experiences of faith did not consciously register into my intellect. This made the belief that the Urantia Papers are revelation within mortal mind without any anchor. Its' value, intellectually speaking, is no different than belief in Buddhism. When one feelingly experiences faith within, all intellectual doubts regarding Deity disappear. To me, this is the most rewarding experience of reading these papers. Facts are of material reality, meanings are of mind reality, and values are of spirit reality. Facts and meanings are taken for granted by us; however, experiencing value of spirit reality consciously is not very common.

The facts and meanings of The Urantia Papers can not be perfect as they are scaffolding for the readers to become conscious of spirit reality within their personal experiences. A part of faith growing experience is to escape from the certainty of intellect. After experiencing consciously the spirit reality, one can use intellect again to serve spirit reality. A little child usually does not have the baggage of strong intellect, so it is easy to coach him/her to recognize faith experience.

My observation/experience is that the Urantia Papers may mesmerize many readers intellectually, but sooner or later they must ask themselves honestly: "Do I experience spirit reality, or I just believe what are said in the Urantia Papers." This question has to be answered personally and alone. For those who actually consciously experience their indwelling Father Fragments as a partial result of studying/reading the Urantia Papers, the validity of these papers are self-explanatory. For those who are already God-conscious before they received the Urantia Papers, the indwelling spirit forces definitely testify the validity of the papers.

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:03 am +0000

Aloha...Tony, How long have you been a reader of the UB? Just curious with new posters...Welcome...

Sure was good to see Joer in this thread...I went back and read some of his post...thank you for keeping them in the archives...

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:24 pm +0000

I do not quite remember. Perhaps 10 years.

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:32 pm +0000

8) If you don't mind my asking...how did you find the book?

After years and years of searching, reading, and seeking for my "Guru" :wink: I found the book sitting quietly on a coffee table here in Hawaii...I knew I was home...

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:05 pm +0000

Thomas, I hope you are still there. Tony and Tootsie also; I just read this post being new to the Truthbook and all, but what Thomas is talking about is so common especially with new readers. I have to say it took me almost the first ten years of reading in the UB before I felt reasonably comfortable interpreting what was written in the Part 1 section. I've been reading TUB since 1971. Still some of these concepts are still on the back burner. But on the rest of the book I have had to also take an attitude that maybe my viewpoint is in need of adjustment. But what has given me the most comfort, was an answer to my prayer for guidance and trust of this work, that in so many words was "Relax, don't be so anxious, I've got you covered in anything you might ask or challenge. And don't be afraid." These feelings of the answers have helped me to further delve into areas of investigation that were taboo before I found TUB. These findings of the UB are more and more being found out by the "scientific community", especially in the areas of anthropology and genetics, but also geology. Take heart Thomas and relax, sooner or later your spiritual confidence will return, and with a stronger inspiration. Bob.

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:13 pm +0000

In my mental anguish after exposing to non-dualism teaching, I surfed the Internet on a site listing all the sacred books. Somehow I was attracted, no my indwelling Father directed me to the Urantia Book. I liked it very much after I read it on the net because it resolved the conflict between Science and God within me. However, I am only 100% sure of the reality of God until quite recently.

Re: A crisis of faith

Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:35 pm +0000

I am happy for you Tony to have found the UB...do you have a book yet? Most libraries have them too...enjoy the ride :wink:

Re: A crisis of faith

Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:55 pm +0000

tootsie wrote:I am happy for you Tony to have found the UB...do you have a book yet? Most libraries have them too...enjoy the ride :wink:

I got a big blue as a gift. I have given 4 copies away.

Re: A crisis of faith

Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:33 pm +0000

Howdy Friends,

I got my first big blue UB book for my birthday in 1976. It took me 2 years to read it, and I've read it many, many times since in full, and in part. I took it slow and thought deeply about almost every paragraph. I do that with all things I learn or read. That 2 years changed my thinking and my life. But... I wanted to make it all real, so I took a year off from reading the UB book at all. I wanted to make it become real in my everyday life, and not just an intellectual addition to all the other books and things I've thought about and studied since a small child. Yup, I believe I started trying to visualize God at about 5 years old... for many reasons that don't need to be shared in this forum. But all were good and profound reasons for such a small mind and body as a 5 year old.

I like to learn things and then make them real in my everyday life. That is the key to knowing if they are real or just mind things, or memorized things. Do they effect how you live life? Do they help you cope with life? Do they fill you up... is you're cup over-flowing? Some simple questions beyond the words in a book. Does everyday life become more colorful and full of wonder? Of course even if you're cup is over-flowing it does not mean that your life is a bundle of roses all the time. Disabilities can be turned into Gifts with effort, and sometimes tears and pain!

Everyday my life is put to the test, as are all our lives! And everyday I grow just a little closer to the heart of the Universe in my real physical doings, as well as in Mind and Spirit.

That is the test. How is you're life? Only you can answer that question.

Have a good one,
God Bless,

Re: A crisis of faith

Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:39 pm +0000

Welcome Bill,
Good to have you here.

Re: A crisis of faith

Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:47 pm +0000

Thanks Larry, I do appreciate these forums, and the warm welcome. I'm a new member here, so I hope I don't go off topic too many times.


Re: A crisis of faith

Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:08 pm +0000

I want to welcome you also, Bill, and thanks for your great post.

You said it so well, and I agree.

The thing that I love so much about our revelation is that opportunity to really live what we learn, and to understand what we are doing and who we are and why we are. We make it real by living it. This religion of ours - this religion of spiritual experience - is the most powerful thing...all things new...

Glad you have joined the group and hope to see you here often...

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