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This is not a political post by any means, but this is quite a statement, a benchmark for "a practical and efficient form of representative government". Any civilized comment :lol: is very welcome. Thanks!

71:2.9 (802.3) There are ten steps, or stages, to the evolution of a practical and efficient form of representative government, and these are:

71:2.10 (802.4) 1. Freedom of the person. Slavery, serfdom, and all forms of human bondage must disappear.

71:2.11 (802.5) 2. Freedom of the mind. Unless a free people are educated—taught to think intelligently and plan wisely—freedom usually does more harm than good.

71:2.12 (802.6) 3. The reign of law. Liberty can be enjoyed only when the will and whims of human rulers are replaced by legislative enactments in accordance with accepted fundamental law.

71:2.13 (802.7) 4. Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of expression for human aspirations and opinions.

71:2.14 (802.8) 5. Security of property. No government can long endure if it fails to provide for the right to enjoy personal property in some form. Man craves the right to use, control, bestow, sell, lease, and bequeath his personal property.

71:2.15 (802.9) 6. The right of petition. Representative government assumes the right of citizens to be heard. The privilege of petition is inherent in free citizenship.

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71:2.16 (802.10) 7. The right to rule. It is not enough to be heard; the power of petition must progress to the actual management of the government.

71:2.17 (802.11) 8. Universal suffrage. Representative government presupposes an intelligent, efficient, and universal electorate. The character of such a government will ever be determined by the character and caliber of those who compose it. As civilization progresses, suffrage, while remaining universal for both sexes, will be effectively modified, regrouped, and otherwise differentiated.71:2.18 (802.12) 9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.

71:2.19 (802.13) 10. Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of democracy is dependent on successful representative government; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.


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I'm especially drawn to #2, "freedom of the mind". It is written that without education freedom is dangerous. Education is not the same as indoctrination, forcing information into the mind. The Revelation describes education as the business of living which must continue throughout a lifetime. (806:5) 71:7.5 The purpose of education is to coordinate experience with reality. (43.5) 2:7.12 The mechanism of education is learning by doing. (577.2) 50:5.7


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I agree. I was originally impressed by numbers 9 & 10 and the contrast to the present political class. But #1 also stood out to me because in this country there are still many "forms of human bondage" which must yet disappear.


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Thanks, pethuel.

High ideals, for sure. And not unlike what America's founding fathers envisioned, it seems to me. And they are ideals worth working for, no matter how difficult. These are divine ideals.

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The entire universe is organized and administered on the representative plan. Representative government is the divine ideal of self-government among nonperfect beings.


That's quite a statement, too.

From: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-45-the-local-system-administration#U45_7_1


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Not exactly good timing for starting this thread. I'm on Paper 70 and when I have finished paper 71, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I will tell you now that I am a failed local election candidate and politics is an obsession of mine.


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William S. wrote:
Not exactly good timing for starting this thread. I'm on Paper 70 and when I have finished paper 71, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I will tell you now that I am a failed local election candidate and politics is an obsession of mine.


I tend to think that if you failed to get elected then you won in the long run. My father also failed to get elected, he ran afoul of the local party. Although it is not an obsession of mine, I am constantly drawn into political discussions. People are fed up with the current crop of politicians and it won't be long before controls are put into place that will ensure "only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit" will be chosen to represent the people. Perhaps you will be one!


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pethuel wrote:
People are fed up with the current crop of politicians and it won't be long before controls are put into place that will ensure "only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit" will be chosen to represent the people. Perhaps you will be one!


How would a "controlling body" determine who is technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal and morally fit? Sincerely, how does anyone, or more preferably a group of people, judge those things? What would be the criteria for getting a license to lead?


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I wonder the results if we simply required transparency and enforced accountability and eliminated personal greed incentives and rewards in politics and public service??


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fanofVan wrote:
I wonder the results if we simply required transparency and enforced accountability and eliminated personal greed incentives and rewards in politics and public service??


I agree, and this is where an evolutionary change is required, because the political class (as it now stands) is never going to vote away their position of influence and wealth. Many of the so called democracies are really under a dictatorship of the political class, quite a far cry from the vision of the founding fathers and the standards set forth in Paper 71 and in several sections of the UB, betrayal of the public trust being clearly highlighted as a heinous offense.


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pethuel wrote:
Many of the so called democracies are really under a dictatorship of the political class, quite a far cry from the vision of the founding fathers and the standards set forth in Paper 71 and in several sections of the UB, betrayal of the public trust being clearly highlighted as a heinous offense.


I think the media is also part of the dictatorship since it's become political itself, no longer neutral. I also think betrayal of any kind of trust is heinous, public or otherwise.

What do you think of the fact that politicians are allowed to say anything they want on the floor of the Congress or Senate and not be held accountable by law? Should that law be changed? What's the purpose of insulating and protecting lawmakers from the need to be honest and truthful while they are at work within these institutions? Isn't it a blatant lack of accountability? Shouldn't they be required to provide proof for anything they say publicly unless they stipulate it to be merely opinion? And if it is opinion, shouldn't they be required to share the facts that back it up?


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katroofjebus wrote:
pethuel wrote:
Many of the so called democracies are really under a dictatorship of the political class, quite a far cry from the vision of the founding fathers and the standards set forth in Paper 71 and in several sections of the UB, betrayal of the public trust being clearly highlighted as a heinous offense.


I think the media is also part of the dictatorship since it's become political itself, no longer neutral. I also think betrayal of any kind of trust is heinous, public or otherwise.

What do you think of the fact that politicians are allowed to say anything they want on the floor of the Congress or Senate and not be held accountable by law? Should that law be changed? What's the purpose of insulating and protecting lawmakers from the need to be honest and truthful while they are at work within these institutions? Isn't it a blatant lack of accountability? Shouldn't they be required to provide proof for anything they say publicly unless they stipulate it to be merely opinion? And if it is opinion, shouldn't they be required to share the facts that back it up?


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pethuel wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
pethuel wrote:
Many of the so called democracies are really under a dictatorship of the political class, quite a far cry from the vision of the founding fathers and the standards set forth in Paper 71 and in several sections of the UB, betrayal of the public trust being clearly highlighted as a heinous offense.


I think the media is also part of the dictatorship since it's become political itself, no longer neutral. I also think betrayal of any kind of trust is heinous, public or otherwise.

What do you think of the fact that politicians are allowed to say anything they want on the floor of the Congress or Senate and not be held accountable by law? Should that law be changed? What's the purpose of insulating and protecting lawmakers from the need to be honest and truthful while they are at work within these institutions? Isn't it a blatant lack of accountability? Shouldn't they be required to provide proof for anything they say publicly unless they stipulate it to be merely opinion? And if it is opinion, shouldn't they be required to share the facts that back it up?


Ah yes, the media. When was it ever neutral? Newspapers at least have always had some kind of axe to grind, but television seemed to be impartial, at least in the 60s, I mean everybody trusted Walter Cronkite! But since then it seems the media has steadily grown in power and therefore subject to interference from those who crave power.

But let's discuss the "D" word a little. The dictatorship of the political class in my country is shameless, they justify graft and corruption by saying "that's just the way it works", and indeed that is how it has always worked in the past. True we have free elections and everyone is required by law to vote, but like in the U.S. and many other countries the votes are nearly always a 50-50 split with one candidate winning by a very narrow margin. As soon as someone is elected the opposition tries to find ways to impeach and the business of running the country and seeking to improve the lot of the people is ignored in favor of continual power struggles and it comes down to who is right and not what is right.

But the Papers make it obvious that a practical and efficient form of representative government is only the result of evolutionary progress, so we must be patient and keep the vision. I think the Papers also make it clear that all these things can only come about when every individual is self-ruling.

71:3.10 (803.10) The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood.

When people finally refuse to tolerate corruption in their own lives and acquire the moral backbone needed to refuse to tolerate it in civil servants and public adminstrators, then the people themselves become the "controlling body" that permits other citizens to assume the role of public administration.

But I agree with FanofVan that we should insist on transparency and enforced accountability and eliminate personal greed incentives in public administration. This is not out of our reach and it is a non-partisan issue since we should demand that from anyone seeking public office, "Oh you want to be a public servant? Prove that you are worthy! First requirement for a candidate is to open hers or his finances, source of income and tax records. I can see that happening quite soon if folks will resist these constant efforts at polarization and quit bickering among themselves long enough to rewrite the rules, it is a new day and we need new guidelines to help us reach these 10 steps to practical and efficient representative government. I daresay that these simple basic requirements will dissuade many unsavory people from seeking political office, once they know that they are going to be closely watched. Once again, this is something that is within reach.


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pethuel wrote:
William S. wrote:
Not exactly good timing for starting this thread. I'm on Paper 70 and when I have finished paper 71, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I will tell you now that I am a failed local election candidate and politics is an obsession of mine.


I tend to think that if you failed to get elected then you won in the long run. My father also failed to get elected, he ran afoul of the local party. Although it is not an obsession of mine, I am constantly drawn into political discussions. People are fed up with the current crop of politicians and it won't be long before controls are put into place that will ensure "only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit" will be chosen to represent the people. Perhaps you will be one!


Thank you so much! People giving me reassurance that I might still have a political future really puts a smile on my face. You are the second person since the election to have done so.


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katroofjebus wrote:
How would a "controlling body" determine who is technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal and morally fit? Sincerely, how does anyone, or more preferably a group of people, judge those things? What would be the criteria for getting a license to lead?


I think a first step is developing an honest and effective review and debate procedure for all major governmental decisions. That tends to sift out those without competence, fitness and morals. A person could argue that that is done in certain countries, but apparently the unscrupulous can critical sabotage the proper function of that. So there needs to be safeguards in place to prevent that.


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Riktare wrote:
I think a first step is developing an honest and effective review and debate procedure for all major governmental decisions.


Isn't that what regular order in Congress is supposed to achieve? Public debates on the floor followed by voting from our representatives? Isn't that the purpose of C-span? To make these events public? I'm the only person I know who watches that, the nerd that I am, or is it geek?

But more to your point, who reviews the honesty of the public debate? Usually it's the press and occasionally think tanks, but they are completely polarized at this period in time and therefore untrustworthy in my opinion. So it's the public's responsibility to pay attention to these things and decide what is honest and what is fiction. Opinion polls are meant to reflect the public's thinking, but they fail too because they are so easily manipulated. I still think that the truth always wins because it can be acted out. Politicians, and their minions, who peddle in untruth will eventually have to face its unreality. There is a cost.


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