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While reading the UB, I noticed that some sentences are not gender neutral or gender inclusive when these situations do in fact apply to both men and women. The celestials have admitted as much that the English language is crude and hence difficult to use to convey certain terms, but I would imagine that they could have thought of the gender thing.

Anyway, this got me thinking about the question about sensitivity regarding culture and identity and if the UB has anything at all to say about it.

Today many people frown upon inappropriate jokes involving sexual innuendo and race as well as using words deemed insensitive. You won't win many friends and you might even lose some teeth with the use of the N word. Using the Nazi salute in Germany will land you a fine or time in jail.

This next line I found in the UB was slightly problematic:

66:5.30 (749.1) Tut and his associates labored to promote group associations of a peaceful nature, to regulate and humanize warfare, to co-ordinate intertribal relations, and to improve tribal governments. In the vicinity of Dalamatia there developed a more advanced culture, and these improved social relations were very helpful in influencing more remote tribes. But the pattern of civilization prevailing at the Prince’s headquarters was quite different from the barbaric society evolving elsewhere, just as the twentieth-century society of Capetown, South Africa, is totally unlike the crude culture of the diminutive Bushmen to the north.

While this was not intended to be racist, it might be misunderstood as white supremacy and is insensitive to the history of colonialism in Africa.

It is for this reason that I feel that the UB is not a good reference for respecting cultural and societal sensibilities.

With that said, is there anything within the papers addressing the question of social justice and sensibilities?


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Interesting point, William.

The authors use the word fairness 47 times:

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...Whenever fairness and justice require an understanding of how a contemplated policy or procedure would affect the evolutionary races of time, these commissioners are at hand to present their recommendations; they are always present to speak for those who cannot be present to speak for themselves.37:5:9 (411.7)


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When I say social justice, I'm talking about social justice warriors usually found in colleges who point out countless ways you can cause offense to people and impose many restrictions on what people can say and do. Some are legitimate concerns, some are blown out of proportion.


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William S. wrote:
When I say social justice, I'm talking about social justice warriors usually found in colleges who point out countless ways you can cause offense to people and impose many restrictions on what people can say and do. Some are legitimate concerns, some are blown out of proportion.



Aren't the UB authors fairly clear about the ultimate triumph of social justice, even the elimination of the need for it? Seems like intervening untethered idealism in young minds is to be expected. The babyboomers are a generation of idealists, see how we have evolved on the meaning of social justice, politically, racially, and spiritually. Real justice is an ideal, not a reality at this time. No?

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155:3.4 (1727.4) Increasingly they learned from Jesus to look upon human personalities in terms of their possibilities in time and in eternity. They learned that many souls can best be led to love the unseen God by being first taught to love their brethren whom they can see. And it was in this connection that new meaning became attached to the Master’s pronouncement concerning unselfish service for one’s fellows: “Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of my brethren, you did it to me.”

I do not see how the UB could be clearer or more definitive about social equity, fairness, and service. The Urantia Papers are an confirmation, extension, and elaboration of the Jesusonian Gospel....the love centered paternity of God and the beloved family of creation, blessed and bathed with love for all and service to all others.

According to the UB no child of God has less value than any other child. All believers of every age and all ages are to be truth warriors and social warriors...warriors of love, service, and reverant, joyful examples of brotherhood.

132:5.20 (1464.4) “6. If you chance to secure wealth by flights of genius, if your riches are derived from the rewards of inventive endowment, do not lay claim to an unfair portion of such rewards. The genius owes something to both his ancestors and his progeny; likewise is he under obligation to the race, nation, and circumstances of his inventive discoveries; he should also remember that it was as man among men that he labored and wrought out his inventions. It would be equally unjust to deprive the genius of all his increment of wealth. And it will ever be impossible for men to establish rules and regulations applicable equally to all these problems of the equitable distribution of wealth. You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice.

Personal morality is the very basis of religious experience and the birth of soul itself!!

I wonder what you think the Papers are about William?? The teachings of the UB are specifically about transferring the seat of our personal identity from the material nature to the spirit nature of our dual natures. Moral choosing and fairness comes from the spirit. The whole (society) reflects the progress achieved by its parts...as goes the parts so goes the whole...a social law of the universe of time.

Every evolutionary world...evolves...and progresses... based on experiential wisdom acquired over time....long periods of time.

Read Paper 52...Planetary Mortal Epochs. Our world's history is filled by such warriors of faith, hope, courage, leadership, and example.

103:2.3 (1131.2) The evolutionary soil in the mind of man in which the seed of revealed religion germinates is the moral nature that so early gives origin to a social consciousness. The first promptings of a child’s moral nature have not to do with sex, guilt, or personal pride, but rather with impulses of justice, fairness, and urges to kindness—helpful ministry to one’s fellows. And when such early moral awakenings are nurtured, there occurs a gradual development of the religious life which is comparatively free from conflicts, upheavals, and crises.

103:2.4 (1131.3) Every human being very early experiences something of a conflict between his self-seeking and his altruistic impulses, and many times the first experience of God-consciousness may be attained as the result of seeking for superhuman help in the task of resolving such moral conflicts.

103:2.5 (1131.4) The psychology of a child is naturally positive, not negative. So many mortals are negative because they were so trained. When it is said that the child is positive, reference is made to his moral impulses, those powers of mind whose emergence signals the arrival of the Thought Adjuster.

103:2.6 (1131.5) In the absence of wrong teaching, the mind of the normal child moves positively, in the emergence of religious consciousness, toward moral righteousness and social ministry, rather than negatively, away from sin and guilt. There may or may not be conflict in the development of religious experience, but there are always present the inevitable decisions, effort, and function of the human will.

103:2.7 (1131.6) Moral choosing is usually accompanied by more or less moral conflict. And this very first conflict in the child mind is between the urges of egoism and the impulses of altruism. The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

103:2.8 (1131.7) When a moral being chooses to be unselfish when confronted by the urge to be selfish, that is primitive religious experience. No animal can make such a choice; such a decision is both human and religious. It embraces the fact of God-consciousness and exhibits the impulse of social service, the basis of the brotherhood of man. When mind chooses a right moral judgment by an act of the free will, such a decision constitutes a religious experience.

103:2.9 (1131.8) But before a child has developed sufficiently to acquire moral capacity and therefore to be able to choose altruistic service, he has already developed a strong and well-unified egoistic nature. And it is this factual situation that gives rise to the theory of the struggle between the “higher” and the “lower” natures, between the “old man of sin” and the “new nature” of grace. Very early in life the normal child begins to learn that it is “more blessed to give than to receive.”

103:2.10 (1131.9) Man tends to identify the urge to be self-serving with his ego—himself. In contrast he is inclined to identify the will to be altruistic with some influence outside himself—God. And indeed is such a judgment right, for all such nonself desires do actually have their origin in the leadings of the indwelling Thought Adjuster, and this Adjuster is a fragment of God. The impulse of the spirit Monitor is realized in human consciousness as the urge to be altruistic, fellow-creature minded. At least this is the early and fundamental experience of the child mind. When the growing child fails of personality unification, the altruistic drive may become so overdeveloped as to work serious injury to the welfare of the self. A misguided conscience can become responsible for much conflict, worry, sorrow, and no end of human unhappiness.

I wonder William....as you are carrying Big Blue around in public, what do you tell people it is about? Do you know what it is about? I am always interested in how readers introduce the contents and teachings of the UB to non-readers.


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:14 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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rick warren wrote:


Aren't the UB authors fairly clear about the ultimate triumph of social justice, even the elimination of the need for it? Seems like intervening untethered idealism in young minds is to be expected. The babyboomers are a generation of idealists, see how we have evolved on the meaning of social justice, politically, racially, and spiritually. Real justice is an ideal, not a reality at this time. No?

.


I agree. And really, consider any civil rights movement and you will see that the early vanguard of the movement, the leading ('bleeding') edge of it is always considered radical and unreasonable when it first emerges. The African Americans who refused to leave their stools at the Walmart soda fountain counter. The suffragettes who insisted that the women be allowed to vote (preposterous!). Etc. I will admit that I inwardly roll my eyes just a bit when I see campus events where one's choice of pronoun is written on their name badge (she, her) etc. but even as I do, I remind myself that just because I don't share their perspective, that doesn't automatically mean that it is invalid. Live and let live, I say.

ETA: It reminds me of the whole tempest in a teacup about 'not being allowed' to say "Merry Christmas" anymore that so many complain about these days. What difference does it make if someone says Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Greetings or whatever - the intent is the same and it's all positive. Let people express themselves the way they choose and if it's not your way of expressing the celebration, just smile and get on with life.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
rick warren wrote:


Aren't the UB authors fairly clear about the ultimate triumph of social justice, even the elimination of the need for it? Seems like intervening untethered idealism in young minds is to be expected. The babyboomers are a generation of idealists, see how we have evolved on the meaning of social justice, politically, racially, and spiritually. Real justice is an ideal, not a reality at this time. No?

.


I agree. And really, consider any civil rights movement and you will see that the early vanguard of the movement, the leading ('bleeding') edge of it is always considered radical and unreasonable when it first emerges. The African Americans who refused to leave their stools at the Walmart soda fountain counter. The suffragettes who insisted that the women be allowed to vote (preposterous!). Etc. I will admit that I inwardly roll my eyes just a bit when I see campus events where one's choice of pronoun is written on their name badge (she, her) etc. but even as I do, I remind myself that just because I don't share their perspective, that doesn't automatically mean that it is invalid. Live and let live, I say.


Thanks for that Agon D. Onter!!!!

Indeed...the world is filled with warriors who strive, suffer, overcome, fight back, and triumph over injustice and inspire others to make moral choices and respond to social conscience.

The greatest of agondonters will be those victims of unrighteousness who bend but not break to the suffering of injustice and unfairness. No other can be as kind, generous, merciful, patient, and gentle as such victims in heaven and finality.

My social heroes and those I give credit to for what's best in our world are those who suffer persecution and depravation and still love and forgive. What an example of the Jesusonian Gospel!!!!

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172:1.3 Jesus talked with Simon about Joshua of old, whose namesake he was, and recited how Joshua and the Israelites had come up to Jerusalem through Jericho. In commenting on the legend of the walls of Jericho falling down, Jesus said: “I am not concerned with such walls of brick and stone; but I would cause the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness, and hate to crumble before this preaching of the Father's love for all men.”

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I don't think the current use of the term "social justice" has anything to do with real justice. Isn't it all about equality centered around anti-capitalism? It's a political ideology called egalitarianism. The Revelation doesn't really comment that much on current politics other than to warn against removing the profit motive before we achieve a very advanced society. In regards to human equality (not spiritual equality), the Revelation is clear, it's a myth. Society cannot offer equal rights to all.

(794.11) 70:9.16 The weak and the inferior have always contended for equal rights; they have always insisted that the state compel the strong and superior to supply their wants and otherwise make good those deficiencies which all too often are the natural result of their own indifference and indolence.

(794.12) 70:9.17 But this equality ideal is the child of civilization; it is not found in nature. Even culture itself demonstrates conclusively the inherent inequality of men by their very unequal capacity therefor. The sudden and nonevolutionary realization of supposed natural equality would quickly throw civilized man back to the crude usages of primitive ages. Society cannot offer equal rights to all, but it can promise to administer the varying rights of each with fairness and equity. It is the business and duty of society to provide the child of nature with a fair and peaceful opportunity to pursue self-maintenance, participate in self-perpetuation, while at the same time enjoying some measure of self-gratification, the sum of all three constituting human happiness.

71:6.3   The profit motive of economic activities is altogether base and wholly unworthy of an advanced order of society; nevertheless, it is an indispensable factor throughout the earlier phases of civilization. Profit motivation must not be taken away from men until they have firmly possessed themselves of superior types of nonprofit motives for economic striving and social serving — the transcendent urges of superlative wisdom, intriguing brotherhood, and excellency of spiritual attainment.


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Like SEla_Kelly's post, these posts also hint at Jesus' attitude about certain forms of injustice. And he gives the solution - we have to recognize that we are all brothers and sisters.

Quote:
132:5.20 “6. If you chance to secure wealth by flights of genius, if your riches are derived from the rewards of inventive endowment, do not lay claim to an unfair portion of such rewards. The genius owes something to both his ancestors and his progeny; likewise is he under obligation to the race, nation, and circumstances of his inventive discoveries; he should also remember that it was as man among men that he labored and wrought out his inventions. It would be equally unjust to deprive the genius of all his increment of wealth. And it will ever be impossible for men to establish rules and regulations applicable equally to all these problems of the equitable distribution of wealth. You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice.


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140:8.15 4. Economic attitude. Jesus worked, lived, and traded in the world as he found it. He was not an economic reformer, although he did frequently call attention to the injustice of the unequal distribution of wealth. But he did not offer any suggestions by way of remedy. He made it plain to the three that, while his apostles were not to hold property, he was not preaching against wealth and property, merely its unequal and unfair distribution. He recognized the need for social justice and industrial fairness, but he offered no rules for their attainment.


And here's one more:

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71:4.17 Idealism can never survive on an evolving planet if the idealists in each generation permit themselves to be exterminated by the baser orders of humanity. And here is the great test of idealism: Can an advanced society maintain that military preparedness which renders it secure from all attack by its war-loving neighbors without yielding to the temptation to employ this military strength in offensive operations against other peoples for purposes of selfish gain or national aggrandizement? National survival demands preparedness, and religious idealism alone can prevent the prostitution of preparedness into aggression. Only love, brotherhood, can prevent the strong from oppressing the weak.


To me, it is abundantly clear that this is the solution to social justice...but not so easy to acheive...evolution creates a tension that has to be resolved in order to see improvement over time.


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katroofjebus wrote:
I don't think the current use of the term "social justice" has anything to do with real justice. Isn't it all about equality centered around anti-capitalism? It's a political ideology called egalitarianism. The Revelation doesn't really comment that much on current politics other than to warn against removing the profit motive before we achieve a very advanced society. In regards to human equality (not spiritual equality), the Revelation is clear, it's a myth. Society cannot offer equal rights to all.


Kat,
What do you think of these references with regard to the topic?

Quote:
70:10.1 (794.13) Natural justice is a man-made theory; it is not a reality. In nature, justice is purely theoretic, wholly a fiction. Nature provides but one kind of justice—inevitable conformity of results to causes.

70:10.2 (794.14) Justice, as conceived by man, means getting one’s rights and has, therefore, been a matter of progressive evolution. The concept of justice may well be constitutive in a spirit-endowed mind, but it does not spring full-fledgedly into existence on the worlds of space.


Social justice is evolutionary and progressive.


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Then there's this:

(597.3) 52:6.2 Even on normal evolutionary worlds the realization of the world-wide brotherhood of man is not an easy accomplishment. On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort. Unaided social evolution can hardly achieve such happy results on a spiritually isolated sphere. Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia. While Jesus has shown the way to the immediate attainment of spiritual brotherhood, the realization of social brotherhood on your world depends much on the achievement of the following personal transformations and planetary adjustments:
(597.4) 52:6.3 1. Social fraternity. Multiplication of international and interracial social contacts and fraternal associations through travel, commerce, and competitive play. Development of a common language and the multiplication of multilinguists. The racial and national interchange of students, teachers, industrialists, and religious philosophers.
(597.5) 52:6.4 2. Intellectual cross-fertilization. Brotherhood is impossible on a world whose inhabitants are so primitive that they fail to recognize the folly of unmitigated selfishness. There must occur an exchange of national and racial literature. Each race must become familiar with the thought of all races; each nation must know the feelings of all nations. Ignorance breeds suspicion, and suspicion is incompatible with the essential attitude of sympathy and love.
(597.6) 52:6.5 3. Ethical awakening. Only ethical consciousness can unmask the immorality of human intolerance and the sinfulness of fratricidal strife. Only a moral conscience can condemn the evils of national envy and racial jealousy. Only moral beings will ever seek for that spiritual insight which is essential to living the golden rule.
(598.1) 52:6.6 4. Political wisdom. Emotional maturity is essential to self-control. Only emotional maturity will insure the substitution of international techniques of civilized adjudication for the barbarous arbitrament of war. Wise statesmen will sometime work for the welfare of humanity even while they strive to promote the interest of their national or racial groups. Selfish political sagacity is ultimately suicidal — destructive of all those enduring qualities which insure planetary group survival.
(598.2) 52:6.7 5. Spiritual insight. The brotherhood of man is, after all, predicated on the recognition of the fatherhood of God. The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.


Note under Political wisdom, the emphasis is on emotional control and the promotion of BOTH national intrests and humanity's interests. It's all about balance and stability.


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Kat,
This quote you posted, in particular, is interesting:

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(597.6) 52:6.5 3. Ethical awakening. Only ethical consciousness can unmask the immorality of human intolerance and the sinfulness of fratricidal strife. Only a moral conscience can condemn the evils of national envy and racial jealousy. Only moral beings will ever seek for that spiritual insight which is essential to living the golden rule.


I think the heart of what is desired by most social justice activists is simply that the golden rule be applied to all, regardless of social strata, race, or other distinctions.


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70:9.17 (the) promise to administer the varying rights of each with fairness and equity.

Someone please explain the difference between the social and the religious interpretation, of what "the varying rights of each human individual" means?
How do you recognise "the varying rights of each" within your own household?
How do you administrate well, "the rights of life, liberty, and land" (Declaration of Independence, Locke), for those who will eventually become Householders themselves?

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
70:9.17 (the) promise to administer the varying rights of each with fairness and equity.

Someone please explain the difference between the social and the religious interpretation, of what "the varying rights of each human individual" means?
How do you recognise "the varying rights of each" within your own household?
How do you administrate well, "the rights of life, liberty, and land" (Declaration of Independence, Locke), for those who will eventually become Householders themselves?


The religious, or spiritual interpretation is rather easy. God is no respecter of persons. He loves every personality equally. However, the person's ability to experience the Father's love is variable according to his capacity, and it is that capacity which is unequal.

(27.1) 1:4.6 To every spirit being and to every mortal creature in every sphere and on every world of the universe of universes, the Universal Father reveals all of his gracious and divine self that can be discerned or comprehended by such spirit beings and by such mortal creatures. God is no respecter of persons, either spiritual or material. The divine presence which any child of the universe enjoys at any given moment is limited only by the capacity of such a creature to receive and to discern the spirit actualities of the supermaterial world.

(1225:12) 112:0.12 10. Personality is unique, absolutely unique: It is unique in time and space; it is unique in eternity and on Paradise; it is unique when bestowed—there are no duplicates; it is unique during every moment of existence; it is unique in relation to God—he is no respecter of persons, but neither does he add them together, for they are nonaddable—they are associable but nontotalable.

The social interpretation involves the differing levels of capacity of each individual personality.

(641.4) 56:6.3 The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.

In order to live at the highest spiritual level of the golden rule, the sixth level of fatherly love, as described below, one must have capacity to experience the Father. One cannot treat all men the way God would treat them unless one has attained the capacity to recognize how the Father would treat them.

(1651.3) 147:4.9 6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father's will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances."


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