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Agon D. Onter wrote:
The subject of discussion in this thread is "Is there environmentalism in the Urantia Book?" The first post starts out the discussion topic


Yes, then William complained about the lack of urgency which demands an explanation why climate change is not an urgent problem while there are other conditions, more readily corrected by man, that are much more urgent. A reference was made to the source of climate change, three things which man has no control over. Heroin addiction is one example of a human condition of great urgency where man does have control over its cause and effect. There are many more. Heroin was used to contrast the hysteria over cigarette smoke in the air when a far more present danger exists from poison in the vein. It was meant to illustrate a stark contrast between two ways of looking at the problem. So it is all related and very pertinent to the topic of planetary pollution which allegedly leads to climate change which allegedly endangers the human species. There are some man-made problems worthy of more outrage and urgency than the climate.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
The question says it all. The book came out before the awareness of climate change.


You're kidding right? If the authors were not aware of climate change, why did they tell us the cause of climate change? Why did they write so much on how the climate affected the evolution of man, his migrations and his civilization?

Agon D. Onter wrote:
If you and others want to discuss Urantia's people problems, you are free to start another thread (and I will happily join in, because obviously, people problems are a higher priority/ more important than climate change). You come across as condescending, way over-generalizing, holier-than-thou, and belittling of the topic of discussion here; and if that is your attitude, perhaps you'd be happier participating in threads on topics that you feel are important. No need to rant and rave when this is simply a niche topic of discussion that some people are interested in. Don't get your panties in a wad, please. You've made your views amply clear.


How rude. That's just nasty.


Last edited by katroofjebus on Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:36 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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katroofjebus wrote:
Heroine addiction is one example of a human condition of great urgency ...


Well, to be fair, heroines are extremely cool. The heroine I am most addicted to is Ellanora!

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53:7.1 (607.2) The Lucifer rebellion was system wide. ... Ellanora, a young woman of that mortal realm, grasped the leadership of the human races, and not a single soul on that strife-torn world enlisted under the Lucifer banner. ...


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I stand by what I said on the previous page.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
I am not reducing the value of katroof as a person. Far from it. I am simply making observations about the way katroof's posts on this thread come across, and about the attitude that his outrage implies. Again, if katroof cares more about heroin addiction and water management, and thinks environmentalism is unimportant, this thread is not for him. It's not a judgment, it's an objective observation.

I, too, care about addiction and people problems. katroof is spot on; I agree! However, I think the Golden Rule would say that William S. started this thread to talk about environmentalism, and it is disrespectful to continually derail it into the arena of heroin addiction. That's just my feeling about it.



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Quote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
The question says it all. The book came out before the awareness of climate change.


[quote=katfoorjebus]You're kidding right? If the authors were not aware of climate change, why did they tell us the cause of climate change? Why did they write so much on how the climate affected the evolution of man, his migrations and his civilization?


Um, those were William S.' words from the first post that started this thread. I was quoting him. Try to read more carefully; although I can see you are blinded by outrage so it's difficult. I feel for ya.


Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:32 am +0000, edited 5 times in total.

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Makalu wrote:
no sophist wrote:
Don’t be naive, militias have more wits than can be imagined.





hey are you that guy nodamanav using a new name now?


No


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
Heroine addiction is one example of a human condition of great urgency ...

Well, to be fair, heroines are extremely cool. The heroine I am most addicted to is Ellanora!


Thank you so much for editing my work. I appreciate it and will correct it.


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Quote:
You're kidding right? If the authors were not aware of climate change, why did they tell us the cause of climate change? Why did they write so much on how the climate affected the evolution of man, his migrations and his civilization?


I don't know if there is any reference to man-made climate change in the book.

If you don't believe in man-made climate change let alone the urgency of changing the way things are done, I'm not going to engage in a debate with you. Why not? Because I'm not well versed in the issue and would only repeat the mantra "Listen to the majority of scientists". If I were to engage in a debate, I'd lose very badly. It's not my area of expertise.

I would hope though you would not wag your finger at what a fool I am for holding opinions different to yours or having a sense of urgency at what I personally believe to be a climate crisis. The UB does not condemn people for holding different opinions.

As for the UB, I'm only on Paper 39 so I'll leave my judgement for later.

You are free to assert a different opinion to mine, but again, I won't respond because I'm not well versed in the facts.


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By the way, you might ask why I asked the question.

Well, I had hoped the other members of the forum would give me things to look forward to as I read the book cover to cover. I had hoped the book might confirm and/or broaden the things I believe. If not, then that's OK. It just means the book did not impress me as much as I had hoped it would.


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I don't think environmentalism is addressed directly or inferred in the papers because there was no eco-conscious society when the papers were penned. Environmentalism I think could be categorized as "unearned or premature knowledge" (see 101:4.1.) However, because of the nature of revelation, and the way autorevelation works, I do think the reader could glean the message of environmentalism from the revelations in TUB as displayed by some of the responses.

Admittedly and to a fault I am not green-conscious. I grew up in urban America (New York City) so all I know is pollution and it has always been acceptable to me. I am now working on myself to change that attitude and do my part to improve our environment.

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William S. wrote:
I would hope though you would not wag your finger at what a fool I am for holding opinions different to yours or having a sense of urgency at what I personally believe to be a climate crisis. The UB does not condemn people for holding different opinions.


I have to assume you're talking to me. If so, I am not wagging my finger at you or anyone else. If environmentalism is something you feel passionate about, then have at it. I believe I stated those exact words earlier. I am not making any judgments. My only concern is over the feeling of urgency. I think that emotion might better serve more pressing human problems that mankind does have more immediate control over. Those are my thoughts and I don't demand you share them, I just ask that you allow me to have them, which you apparently do. So thank you.


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William S. wrote:
By the way, you might ask why I asked the question.

Well, I had hoped the other members of the forum would give me things to look forward to as I read the book cover to cover. I had hoped the book might confirm and/or broaden the things I believe. If not, then that's OK. It just means the book did not impress me as much as I had hoped it would.


Hello? HELLO????!!!!

So...are you not reading the posts here then? How many times and how many ways does it need to be said and written how the issue of stewardship of resources IS addressed throughout the UB? What the heck?

Papers 52 and 55 will explain to you the evolutionary progress and stages our world will pass through and why and how. Our world, when settled in Light and Life will be a veritable Garden of Eden(tia) and we will be the masters of ecology and grand stewards of the environment.

Poor stewardship of the environment has causes. We've discussed those. Those errors of immaturity and inexperience and greed and indolence all need solutions BEFORE we become good stewards. We are learning those lessons slowly and changing our behaviors incrementally and slowly but surely and certainly.

What causes poor stewardship? What will cause good stewardship? Both have been thoroughly discussed. It seems every post and disappointment of yours William ignores all the other posts!

Our world is perfecting. Light and Life to come is inevitable. Therefore, we will become better and better stewards of our environments - all of them - natural, social, political, religious, scientific, philosophic - every form of every environment will and is and has been improving. That's evolutionary progress by experiential wisdom...a big and recurring theme throughout the Papers....as you will come to recognize with time.

Bradly :idea: :!: 8)


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fanofVan wrote:

Hello? HELLO????!!!!

So...are you not reading the posts here then? How many times and how many ways does it need to be said and written how the issue of stewardship of resources IS addressed throughout the UB? What the heck?


Yes. I recognize the others posts. I did say though that I will leave my ultimate judgement on what is written for later.

My sense of urgency at what I believe is a climate crisis however is being challenged. Being optimistic is good, but I fear getting complacent on serious issues. On top of that, someone else mentions we should give more of our thought to other human problems. I disagree.

I'll give you an example: If I were to lobby to protect forests and stop the government from opening new coal powered power plants, somebody tells me to focus less of my time and energy on that in favor of the drug epidemic because the approaching era of light and life will take care of that. On top of that, I am told to be more human rather than nature focused and understand that humans need a growing economy which cannot be sacrificed for nature's sake because nature can take care of itself.

Focusing briefly on drugs: I am not passionate about cannabis legalization because I don't smoke it and it's recreational use is not vital for survival of society. Sure I support it's legalization to reduce crime, to release of thousands of prisoners, to utilize it for medical purposes and to have more practical rehabilitation methods, but I'm much much much more concerned with millions more who will suffer from hurricanes, sea level rise, oceans plagued with plastic and more.

The approaching era of light and life is of little comfort when trying to prevent massive human suffering.


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Okay....a very reasonable response. Well said.

Pay no attention to anyone who tells you to be idle or indifferent! Certainly, the UB does NOT teach that! We are taught that true believers make awesome citizens, engaged in community and planetary progress.

But paradoxically we are also taught that true believers have an absolute confidence in Deity and the Most Highs who rule the kingdoms of people. That we are to trust God and our planet's celestial rulers and administrators and servants. We are taught that material fears and anxieties must be abandoned and are pure mind poisons and do not help in any true and effective way with ANY issues or solutions.

Anxiety and worry indicates our own personal immaturity and lack of faith which require attention!! Our perceptions of reality are determined by our own spirituality and maturity and experience and wisdom. Our perceptions of reality changes as those progress over time.

You do not have an accurate perspective of reality William. Neither do I. We have very limited, personal, subjective, uninformed, biased, and prejudiced perspective most often based on a LACK of information which is the same as ignorance.

Jesus said we are to have faith in God and God's friendly universe even during and despite material calamity and loss and suffering and disappointment and failure!

Kat and those who claim all problems are solved by spiritualization tell the truth William. But as you say, we each have our own sense of priority which only reflects the inherent importance and diversification of the personal and unique perspective and priorities that our free will personalities determine for ourselves.

Great topic by the way...so related to so many important issues to consider. Good for you to stick in there and speak up for yourself. Your opinions are as worthy here as any others!

8) Keep Reading! More text and fewer opinions of others is recommended.


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William S. wrote:
The approaching era of light and life is of little comfort when trying to prevent massive human suffering.


Although I laud your concern over "massive human suffering", I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Are you referring to an apocalyptic event? An event of great urgency?


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I look forward to his answer...but I think he means the potential consequences of a global warming cycle. Rising coast and river mouths displacing millions, even billions of people with some islands being completely submerged. The changing ocean temps and currents leading to fishery habitat changes that will see the end of some populations' food supply. Desertification of grasslands and current ag belts and new weather patterns. All of these may occur and cause significant human suffering.

I think there is a case to be made and argued that humanity faces some planetary catastrophic potentials that may very well lead to crisis management and great progress on uniting us as a world and help lead to a service economy based on brotherhood and survival. Think of the science and solutions such a challenge might deliver to us out of necessity. Urgency enough if not cataclysmic in the near term. Just a small theory of my own.

You know how bad luck becomes good luck!! Depends on what you do with it and how you look at it! Remember the Zen tale of the farmer with the horse and the son!


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The California wildfires are a good example of a climate change impact that was extremely urgent. I will never forget seeing some of the videos of families desperately attempting to drive their cars fast enough to escape the flames. People jumping into backyard swimming pools or lakes to shelter from the inferno that was all around them.

It doesn't get much more urgent than that.


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