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Jim George wrote:

We may, as Brad says, live in a friendly universe, but we don't live on a very friendly planet. Planetarily we may be in for "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" but spiritually we must strive and struggle to live up to our spiritual best practices as we share the victory of living real with God.


maryjo606 wrote:

Jesus said that he believed the universe was friendly to him, all appearances to the contrary...and he was murdered!

I know I agree with Jesus, but I also agree with you, Jim, when you observe that this planet is not particularly friendly right now. It's such a dark world, and we have so far to go before we pull ourselves up and out of the pit.


The phrase "friendly universe" appears a few times in the Urantia Book.

Here is the quote Maryjo was referring to:

Quote:
133:1.4 (1469.3) “Ganid, I can well understand how some of these problems perplex you, and I will endeavor to answer your question. First, in all attacks which might be made upon my person, I would determine whether or not the aggressor was a son of God—my brother in the flesh—and if I thought such a creature did not possess moral judgment and spiritual reason, I would unhesitatingly defend myself to the full capacity of my powers of resistance, regardless of consequences to the attacker. But I would not thus assault a fellow man of sonship status, even in self-defense. That is, I would not punish him in advance and without judgment for his assault upon me. I would by every possible artifice seek to prevent and dissuade him from making such an attack and to mitigate it in case of my failure to abort it. Ganid, I have absolute confidence in my heavenly Father’s overcare; I am consecrated to doing the will of my Father in heaven. I do not believe that real harm can befall me; I do not believe that my lifework can really be jeopardized by anything my enemies might wish to visit upon me, and surely we have no violence to fear from our friends. I am absolutely assured that the entire universe is friendly to me—this all-powerful truth I insist on believing with a wholehearted trust in spite of all appearances to the contrary.”


And here it is mentioned more generally:

Quote:
140:5.11 (1574.4) 3. “Happy are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” Genuine meekness has no relation to fear. It is rather an attitude of man co-operating with God—“Your will be done.” It embraces patience and forbearance and is motivated by an unshakable faith in a lawful and friendly universe. It masters all temptations to rebel against the divine leading. Jesus was the ideal meek man of Urantia, and he inherited a vast universe.


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180:5.8 (1950.3) But the highest realization and the truest interpretation of the golden rule consists in the consciousness of the spirit of the truth of the enduring and living reality of such a divine declaration. The true cosmic meaning of this rule of universal relationship is revealed only in its spiritual realization, in the interpretation of the law of conduct by the spirit of the Son to the spirit of the Father that indwells the soul of mortal man. And [b]when such spirit-led mortals realize the true meaning of this golden rule, they are filled to overflowing with the assurance of citizenship in a friendly universe,[/b] and their ideals of spirit reality are satisfied only when they love their fellows as Jesus loved us all, and that is the reality of the realization of the love of God.


The way I read these, the universe is friendly to all; it is a matter of perception - being led by the Spirit, and the faith/ assurance of patient and forebearance throughout times that really do feel UNfriendly to us living day by day on this troubled planet.


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Actually, it was Jesus and more recently the UB that says we live in a friendly universe Jim!! I just repeat it a lot. And agree.

But it is true we live and grow and are shaped somewhere between the hammer and the anvil. We are being forged and shaped for strength and function and not for ease and comfort and so do challenges relentlessly present difficulties and obstacles to be surmounted only by effort and stamina. Our resilience is as innate as is our curiosity and pursuit of understanding and the creative manipulations of material, force, energy, and resources.

It is by our prior error that new appreciations and technologies and policies bring change. Simple transparency and accountability would change the process and results so much when it comes to environmental and limited resources management. Most decisions and practices against the public interest are those best concealed and covered up and hushed up with cash. Public ignorance and confusion and animosities and special interest groups thrive by deceit and information manipulations which have many people convinced still today that climate change does not occur and is not real!! Holy cow!

The climate is always changing!! Our atmosphere is an organism of response and counter-response, always adjusting the clarity of the air and the temperature of air and water to endlessly cycle back and forth from weather extremes to weather extremes. I think there is fewer total degrees at each end of the pendulum over time as space debris lessens and planetary stabilization slowly reduces the radicalization of surface strikes and volcanic and tectonic effects. Nonetheless, at each end of the climate/atmospheric extremes there are counter effects and responses which move climate back and forth from cooling trends to warming trends.

We are collectively alarmed today by the warming trends and effects as if that direction were permanent or something. Alas, no. What is the corrective response and trend to come? It is the oppositional trend. The greenhouse effect has a predictable result. Also not good!! The sweet spots last a long, long time between the more radical poles of the climate spectrum....but not forever or even indefinitely. No amount of political reform will completely stabilize the atmosphere and climate. We too must learn to respond as the inhabitants of this world. With our tilted axis we have such interesting weather challenges as a population! Humans most certainly do not cause climate change! It seems obvious recently however that we can and do effect the rate of change and should collectively consider that collective effect and try harder not to accelerate or radicalize the effects or planetary responses or make the planetary organism have more radical spectrum effects at either end of response.

We are approaching the end of the great carbon era that transformed the world and hurtled us forward in exponential progress from industrial age to space age to digital age to information age. Today green and renewable and non-carbon based energy solutions to the historical carbon foot prints and atmospheric effects are growth industries. But the footprints fueled by carbon and the profit motive are huge and they are many and our global population has enjoyed great progress it certainly could not have achieved without such a violent lurch forward. I doubt there are any mistakes we might have potentially faced that we did not actually achieve to make! The greed and avarice of the last 200 years drove a machine of growth and invention never seen before. It is my hope we will never see such excess and gluttony and greed and covetousness and foolish materialism ever again.

But only science and fact and information and knowledge and transparency, combined with compassion and duty and loyalty and altruism, and as empowered by the love of others and service to others and the spiritual growth of humanity will change the suffering such progress has delivered. The UB teaches us that if we see the troubles of today in the context of our beginnings and our destiny, we should truly appreciate our progress and have genuine hope for the improvements to come and confidence in the Most Highs to deliver our world to its destiny.

But for now....there are many repercussions and consequences still to suffer I think. The season of folly is not yet over. But as believers, we should each and all be able to respond to the current situation with greater sanity and reason and less passion and anxiety as we make our own choices in service to one another and to all others. Since my first Earth Day 49 years ago, we have learned much and changed much about our stewardship of the planet. But it is a slow process to overcome greed and self interest and learn to self govern for the greater good and make good choices based on real science and upon the fact of the brotherhood/sisterhood of all people everywhere.

Evolutionary perfecting is not a pretty sight within its midst...until it is.

Things are not as they appear....and neither are they different. A little Zen to contemplate. We may wish to reconsider how things appear to us before we waste too much anxiety over those appearances. Perhaps it is the appearance (perception) after all that is in error???

:wink:


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Sadly, people problems will always be with us; at least until our planet achieves the stage of Light and Life. Over many years, the problems you list above will be addressed to more or less sucess; but new people problems will arise in their place. UB tells us that ours is a troubled planet, due, in part, to not getting the entire benefit of the intended upstepping of our genetics.


That excuse sounds a lot like one of those vestigial traits that have to be eliminated on the mansion worlds. I'm not buying it. People are more important than the climate. People problems are getting worse because they're being ignored while everyone is running around screaming about the sky falling. I see emotional manipulation here. A big part of the population is dropping out of society, another big part of society is freaking out about the weather, what would be the benefit to promoting that? While everyone is busy doing stupid things, certain people in power are gaining more and more power because no one is paying any attention to them – too busy loosing their minds with drugs or loosing their minds with panic over pollution and the end of the world.

We're almost at a tipping point. If you read the reference below and consider that more than half of our youth are devoted to materialistic pursuits of drug induced euphoria or climate change, our civilization cannot progress. And that's exactly what is happening. The progress of civilization has come to a screeching halt because the majority is consumed by these physical pursuits. I used to think materialistic pursuits had to do with indulgence, buying tons of useless things and getting fat. I now know it covers a great deal more than that. Obsession with mother nature is a materialistic pursuit, and the only way to make it seem worthwhile is to attach moral value to it. I don't buy it. It's still materialism.

(1220.2) 111:4.3 The advances of true civilization are all born in this inner world of mankind. It is only the inner life that is truly creative. Civilization can hardly progress when the majority of the youth of any generation devote their interests and energies to the materialistic pursuits of the sensory or outer world.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Of course, the only way to fully eradicate crime, delinqency and addiction would be to eradicate free will. UB tells us free will is sovereign.


Another equivocation, in my opinion. The climate doesn't have free will, so it should be easy to control, but of course we can't control it, hence the hysteria. We cannot change the elevation of the land masses, the cosmic clouds or the volcanic activity or shifting tectonic plates on the ocean floor. The truth makes you happy because it can be acted out, and I have never met a happy climate change zealot.

I'm pretty sure that the Revelation does not give us a mandate to control the climate, but it does give us a mandate to control our delinquent, antisocial and subnormal population. It doesn't seem that the Revelation accepts free will as an excuse, neither did Jesus:

(1653.3) 147:5.9 But Jesus earnestly warned his apostles against the foolishness of the child of God who presumes upon the Father’s love. He declared that the heavenly Father is not a lax, loose, or foolishly indulgent parent who is ever ready to condone sin and forgive recklessness. He cautioned his hearers not mistakenly to apply his illustrations of father and son so as to make it appear that God is like some overindulgent and unwise parents who conspire with the foolish of earth to encompass the moral undoing of their thoughtless children, and who are thereby certainly and directly contributing to the delinquency and early demoralization of their own offspring. Said Jesus: “My Father does not indulgently condone those acts and practices of his children which are self-destructive and suicidal to all moral growth and spiritual progress. Such sinful practices are an abomination in the sight of God.”

If we are to practice fatherly and/or brotherly love, we cannot condone free-will acts and practices which are self-destructive and suicidal. We should vote people into office who refuse to ignore this issue and who have ideas on ways to improve the situation. I would vote for a person like that over a climate change zealot any day. I think people problems are far more important than the climate, even if they have precious free will.


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Maryjo says above: "Jesus said that he believed the universe was friendly to him, all appearances to the contrary...and he was murdered!

I know I agree with Jesus, but I also agree with you, Jim, when you observe that this planet is not particularly friendly right now. It's such a dark world, and we have so far to go before we pull ourselves up and out of the pit. The five inspiring "personal transformations and planetary adjustments" that you posted are so beautiful...but we need the power of religious revelation to make it. The world needs The Urantia Book!"


Hmmmm....is the world so dark and unfriendly? Do we live in the pit of despair?

I don't think so. And I think such opinions demonstrate very personal bias in their embrace and expression. Where is the UB teachings in such a lament?

So many of us, even UB students get so bogged down in regrets, blames, anxieties, doubts, confusions, darkness, and other perspectives that are not reflective of reality but only our perception of reality. To read about the Master's perspective and philosophy...as a mortal of the realm and Son of Man....and his joy and optimism and belief in the goodness of this world and of others even when the victim of its worst elements and moments....those are our example.

How many today have food, medicine, light, education, transportation, hope, social potential, and legal rights on this world today compared to 200 years ago? What about 200 years from now? Who is not thrilled by the motion of progress and who cannot see its amazing and profound effects on our world and its people? Who does not wonder at how the Most Highs can work such miracles of progress in such time frames? Who cannot trace the trajectory from here? Who cannot feel the acceleration of that progress and trajectory? Which direction do we move as a world? To what end??

We KNOW that end and destiny. WE know where we go from here. Rather than excitement and thanksgiving, we feel despair and darkness?? Such a pity.

The UB is a gift to change our perspective by changing our awareness of reality...by fact and in truth. That should be its effect. It is not always so. We may be realistic about the challenges which remain and repercussions still to come and the suffering of others and the needs of all those and the faults still to correct...we can be aware of those and STILL embrace the truth, beauty, and goodness of our world and the FACT of progress and destiny. We are smart enough to do both. Most of us need more of one and less of the other to dominate our own life and to reveal the light of truth and hope and trust that the UB is here to fuel.

You and Jim lament the pit and the worst of our world. Jim claims we wallow in our own excrement (Jim's claim) and idly await some fictional dispensational solution. Others claim the end is so obviously near and we deserve our self destruction so soon to visit.

I don't get it. I really don't get it. Things are not as they appear to you. Get it???!!! And they will never be different than they appear to you UNTIL you change your perspective. Our perspective is a function of our own spirituality and beliefs and confidence in the Most Highs and ability to actually perceive reality through the lens of fact and truth. The worse everything appear to us the further from the truth and the reality we are. The universe is indeed friendly. Not just some of the time to some people but inherently and eternally friendly!!

So is this world filled with love and beauty and truth and goodness....7 billion souls loving one another and learning to serve one another...all around the world in every corner. And the most spoiled of all of those 7 billion languish in hopeless darkness and fear and doubt. Good grief.

There's my rant for the day......hahahahahhahaha! :biggrin: :-$ :idea: :!: :wink: 8)

Bradly


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katroofjebus wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Sadly, people problems will always be with us; at least until our planet achieves the stage of Light and Life. Over many years, the problems you list above will be addressed to more or less sucess; but new people problems will arise in their place. UB tells us that ours is a troubled planet, due, in part, to not getting the entire benefit of the intended upstepping of our genetics.


That excuse sounds a lot like one of those vestigial traits that have to be eliminated on the mansion worlds. I'm not buying it. People are more important than the climate. People problems are getting worse because they're being ignored while everyone is running around screaming about the sky falling. I see emotional manipulation here. A big part of the population is dropping out of society, another big part of society is freaking out about the weather, what would be the benefit to promoting that? While everyone is busy doing stupid things, certain people in power are gaining more and more power because no one is paying any attention to them – too busy loosing their minds with drugs or loosing their minds with panic over pollution and the end of the world.

We're almost at a tipping point. If you read the reference below and consider that more than half of our youth are devoted to materialistic pursuits of drug induced euphoria or climate change, our civilization cannot progress. And that's exactly what is happening. The progress of civilization has come to a screeching halt because the majority is consumed by these physical pursuits. I used to think materialistic pursuits had to do with indulgence, buying tons of useless things and getting fat. I now know it covers a great deal more than that. Obsession with mother nature is a materialistic pursuit, and the only way to make it seem worthwhile is to attach moral value to it. I don't buy it. It's still materialism.

(1220.2) 111:4.3 The advances of true civilization are all born in this inner world of mankind. It is only the inner life that is truly creative. Civilization can hardly progress when the majority of the youth of any generation devote their interests and energies to the materialistic pursuits of the sensory or outer world.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Of course, the only way to fully eradicate crime, delinqency and addiction would be to eradicate free will. UB tells us free will is sovereign.


Another equivocation, in my opinion. The climate doesn't have free will, so it should be easy to control, but of course we can't control it, hence the hysteria. We cannot change the elevation of the land masses, the cosmic clouds or the volcanic activity or shifting tectonic plates on the ocean floor. The truth makes you happy because it can be acted out, and I have never met a happy climate change zealot.

I'm pretty sure that the Revelation does not give us a mandate to control the climate, but it does give us a mandate to control our delinquent, antisocial and subnormal population. It doesn't seem that the Revelation accepts free will as an excuse, neither did Jesus:

(1653.3) 147:5.9 But Jesus earnestly warned his apostles against the foolishness of the child of God who presumes upon the Father’s love. He declared that the heavenly Father is not a lax, loose, or foolishly indulgent parent who is ever ready to condone sin and forgive recklessness. He cautioned his hearers not mistakenly to apply his illustrations of father and son so as to make it appear that God is like some overindulgent and unwise parents who conspire with the foolish of earth to encompass the moral undoing of their thoughtless children, and who are thereby certainly and directly contributing to the delinquency and early demoralization of their own offspring. Said Jesus: “My Father does not indulgently condone those acts and practices of his children which are self-destructive and suicidal to all moral growth and spiritual progress. Such sinful practices are an abomination in the sight of God.”

If we are to practice fatherly and/or brotherly love, we cannot condone free-will acts and practices which are self-destructive and suicidal. We should vote people into office who refuse to ignore this issue and who have ideas on ways to improve the situation. I would vote for a person like that over a climate change zealot any day. I think people problems are far more important than the climate, even if they have precious free will.


Lots of discontent and lament....and subjective bias. So all the youth in our world are disappointing you right now? None or not enough pursue knowledge and progress and the Spirit and seek to serve others and their world? You are so certain of your own perspective to declare the world in jeopardy? Progress has screeched to a halt??? Hahahahaha….really? You think so? Hmmmmm…. What a declaration of opinion as if fact but without evidence and despite so much evidence to the contrary!

It is true that we suffer from the errors of free will. It is also true that is how we learn and re-evaluate choices and priorities and always have. Perhaps this free will mechanism of inherent repercussions slowly leading to evolutionary and experiential wisdom might still prevail to continue its effects tomorrow and time to come?? Progress....all progress has come by this methodology. It works. It still works. It will always work.

Agon D. Onter is right....free will delivers problems...and solves them too. But only as wisdom and spiritualization grow in their influence. And they still do.

8)


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So is this world filled with love and beauty and truth and goodness....7 billion souls loving one another and learning to serve one another...all around the world in every corner. And the most spoiled of all of those 7 billion languish in hopeless darkness and fear and doubt. Good grief.

There's my rant for the day......hahahahahhahaha! :biggrin: :-$ :idea: :!: :wink: 8)


Well, I doubt that most of us are languishing in hopeless fear and doubt, fanofvan...I certainly am not! But thanks for the pep talk! Your rant is accepted, but not your conclusion. There's nothing wrong about noticing the problems that we face and being concerned about them and what we might do to make things better. It does not speak of hopeless darkness.

It's good to know that this is not our ultimate home, and that evolution will eventually grind the human race into a better estate. Nevertheless, it is also wise to remember that we all have a part to play in how we approach our world and its problems. We are part of that evolution, too. It's not good to just sit by while one may feel there's real and positive work that can be done to make things better. There are real and pressing issues at play all over our country and our world that desperately need the input of religionists just like us - where we are and as we are. I trust that many, if not most of us, understand that and live lives that reflect the values that we take away from the revelation of our beloved big blue book.


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maryjo606 wrote:
I find myself torn between wanting to do everything I can to help the planet and just adopting a more patient and universe view of it all...


If we take care of one another, the planet will take care of itself. There are far more important things to worry about than mother nature. She already has a ton of helpers from the Divine Minister. I'm not saying we should ignore or abuse mother nature, I'm saying we should not obsess over her.

I have always been moved by the idea that as the inhabitants of a world become settled in light and life, the physical planet also exhausts its evolutionary potentials and stabilizes. I don't think it's the people alone who stabilize the planet, it's probably the spiritual forces in the cosmos who contribute most to that. Our job is to evolve spiritually first. Worrying about the planet will not get anybody one inch closer to God, nor will it get anybody closer to the Divine Minister. She lives in the soul, as does God.

Also, don't forget that we are not the only inhabitants of this planet. I'm sure the midwayers, the permanent inhabitants of earth, are not freaking out about the climate. I am sure they are far more concerned about all the people problems and the greater need for us to take better care of one another. Another reference I've always liked is the one that tells us that members of a progressive civilization delight in bearing one another's burdens. How beautiful is that?

(804.16) 71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule.

So I recommend that we be more concerned about doing everything we can to help the people of the planet and not waste one second worrying about the fate of the planet. It's in excellent hands. In the meantime, we can become conscious of our behavior's impact on others. If people really believe keeping their carbon footprint to a minimum and being a vegan helps their neighbor, then let them have at it. I would rather get to know my neighbors and look for ways to help them if they need it. I do that because it makes others happy and it makes me happy.


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fanofVan wrote:
So all the youth in our world are disappointing you right now?


It would be really nice if you would actually read what I wrote rather than trying to spin it. The Revelation tells us that civilization cannot progress "when the majority of the youth of any generation devote their interests and energies to the materialistic pursuits of the sensory or outer world."

What is preoccupation with the climate? It's a devotion of interest and energy to the outer world. How many children today are taught that the world is ending because of climate change? I'd say the majority. How many believe what they are taught? I'd say a majority. That qualifies as a problem. And who can deny that our government has completely stalled out, getting nothing done, and our society is painfully divided, constantly fighting with one another over this very issue. I say this issue has impacted progress, at least temporarily, until the fascination with the outer world dissipates and balance is restored by more youth developing a greater interest in the inner, spiritual world. It will happen, it must happen, I have faith in that despite all your condescension.


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Jim George wrote:
My sister believes the climate issue is the number one issue facing mankind. The Urantia Book says the greatest issue is our lack of focus on God and his righteousness. Jim


Amen Jim, amen. And don't forget the other half of the gospel, the brotherhood of men. We are to love our brothers like the Father loves them. If we love the Father with all his righteousness, we must also love even the most unrighteous of men.

(1573.7) 140:5.5 He first talked about those who were poor in spirit, hungered after righteousness, endured meekness, and who were pure in heart. Such spirit-discerning mortals could be expected to attain such levels of divine selflessness as to be able to attempt the amazing exercise of fatherly affection; that even as mourners they would be empowered to show mercy, promote peace, and endure persecutions, and throughout all of these trying situations to love even unlovely mankind with a fatherly love. A father’s affection can attain levels of devotion that immeasurably transcend a brother’s affection.

Jesus never said to stand back and allow your brother to exercise his free will to self-destruct. He did say;

(1430.2) 130:2.4 There is no adventure in the course of mortal existence more enthralling than to enjoy the exhilaration of becoming the material life partner with spiritual energy and divine truth in one of their triumphant struggles with error and evil. It is a marvelous and transforming experience to become the living channel of spiritual light to the mortal who sits in spiritual darkness.


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I posted your claims kat. No exaggeration needed. Very dramatic and certain claims. "....progress has come to a screeching halt..."

Actually, some might think the condescension are wild unsubstantiated subjective biaed opinions declared as fact?? I do.


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no sophist wrote:
I’ll put altruism in the mix with the hope of not violating guidelines??
I completely understand the per capita scenario
The fact remains that Kern county ground elevation fell about 25 feet because of excessive groundwater extraction, Colorado river is drained, a fly over So Cal reveals many swimming pools and green lawns and gardens in abundance, quite the opposite up here where all is brown, families and most agriculture are drip irrigating.
It’s no secret that it is cheaper to steal water from the north than to desalinate ocean water and all of the talking points about the AB’s is like p-ing down my back and telling me it’s rain.
Cal is a criminal state, altruism is just about nonexistent in government.
One scientific fact is supported: for any given community divide population into flow into wastewater treatment plant and the average is always 100 gal/person/day, as designed. Excludes outdoor usage as stated.
Sorry if I violated guidelines, promise to end it here.


more half-truths as usual

Is Southern California Sucking Northern Water Supply Dry During Drought?

it's not very altruistic of you to not share the water that isnt really yours anyway...round up the half-wit militia and poison the waterhole! lol


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Don’t be naive, militias have more wits than can be imagined.


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katroofjebus wrote:
People are more important than the climate. People problems are getting worse because they're being ignored while everyone is running around screaming about the sky falling. I see emotional manipulation here. A big part of the population is dropping out of society, another big part of society is freaking out about the weather...


Katfroof,
Take a breath. Calm yourself. Then, look at the subject of this thread. The subject of discussion in this thread is "Is there environmentalism in the Urantia Book?" The first post starts out the discussion topic
Quote:
The question says it all. The book came out before the awareness of climate change.

I suppose the idea of embracing science and progress can be a subtle nod to it.


Is the name of this thread, "What is your priority for what is the most important problem currently facing Urantia?" NO!

Those of us who are discussing climate change are doing so in respect to the thread topic. If you and others want to discuss Urantia's people problems, you are free to start another thread (and I will happily join in, because obviously, people problems are a higher priority/ more important than climate change).

You come across as condescending, way over-generalizing, holier-than-thou, and belittling of the topic of discussion here; and if that is your attitude, perhaps you'd be happier participating in threads on topics that you feel are important. No need to rant and rave when this is simply a niche topic of discussion that some people are interested in. Don't get your panties in a wad, please. You've made your views amply clear.


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no sophist wrote:
Don’t be naive, militias have more wits than can be imagined.



oh sure...anarchists and too dumb to know it.

hey are you that guy nodamanav using a new name now?


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In my post above, I am not reducing the value of katroof as a person. Far from it. I am simply making observations about the way katroof's posts on this thread come across, and about the attitude that his outrage implies. Again, if katroof cares more about heroin addiction and water management, and thinks environmentalism is unimportant, this thread is not for him. It's not a judgment, it's an objective observation.

I, too, care about addiction and people problems. katroof is spot on; I agree! However, I think the Golden Rule would say that William S. started this thread to talk about environmentalism, and it is disrespectful to continually derail it into the arena of heroin addiction. That's just my feeling about it.


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