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Makalu wrote:
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My opinion remains skeptical.
The scientific community of today tends to be very secular


other than the fact that polls show the majority of scientists believe in God or a higher power what does being secular have to do with the quality of the science? spirituality has to do with the scientist not science.

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and there are always individuals what want fame and name more than to serve the community.

research has to pass peer review...poor science done for whatever reason doesnt pass the community standard

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Beyond secular they tend to be politicized.

scientists in general have never been known to be politico types...you should be able to name a number of politicized scientists then. can you?

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I believe there is scientific data out there that is good but I question much of it.


yes of course you question what you don't understand and your corporate ma$ters want to keep it that way


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The politicians that take this questionable data and run with it to the point of fanaticism are not trying to solve environmental issues, to the contrary its all about power and wealth.


perhaps the accusation is true, but the politicians that you like are clearly all about money...there's really no other reason to be anti-environment.

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Ever wonder why so many of them become multi millionaires in a very short time on salaries of a few hundred thousand while doing public service?


lobbyist primarily but i'm happy with my representative peter defazio...too bad your representation must be slime.

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Then there is the propaganda wing of the political party that promotes environmentalism as the most urgent problem ever faced by mankind.

i've not witnessed this...but it's no secret that right-wing politicos live in their own imaginary world fueled by state-run fox "news"

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What comes out of their news medias is mostly opinion, fake news, promotes those hungry for power. Finding the truth is a challenge.

yes when you followed your evil ma$ters into sophistries your search for truth ended.


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Then there is hollywood and what comes out of there, the environment related movies and videos I see have their design and intent based on the original propaganda movie "Hitlers Titanic".
If you watch that film you would believe that British engineers were half witted country bumpkins and they were the cream of the British crop of citizenry, all others being much less.


never heard of it...not really into tv at all like you politicos


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As for the heroin thing, I believe it should be treated like we treat an Ebola outbreak - both suppliers and users.
As for environmental stewardship, I work on it every day and for me, that is about as good as it will get until I feel that local, state and national leaders have a plan that is believable.


yeah we see the pro-environmental work you put in here today...disconnect much?

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Also, is there really such thing as renewable energy?


yes of course...and the first law of thermodynamics doesnt exist if you really want to get down to it. but we arent at that level of energy direction and matter manipulation yet

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Is electric really the answer to all pollution problems?


nobody said it was...plenty of ways to produce electricity pollute and some don't and not all pollution has anything at all to do with electricity or power generation or whatever you had in mind. pay attention to the real world much?

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I think if you track the energy requirements for getting a Tesla on the road it would stack up
against my Vette.


i've not the time nor interest to check into something unmeaningfull overall like this...

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Also, all of the vast arrays of solar and wind energy collection devices tend to remove vital energy from the atmosphere, its entirely possible this contributes more to climate change than carbon - which by the way is plant food.

erm no installation will have zero impact on the environment but the notion that any vital energy is unnaturally removed in the process is junk physics. and increased co2 with increased temps inhibits plant growth...greenhouse growers do it sometimes intentionally during a heat wave. the science is multi-disciplinary.


Ooo- got a short fuse dude. I’m familiar with the type. Would you like to pepper spray me from 20 feet away, smack me with a belt buckle with my back turned, sucker punch me?
I’m not anti environment, but certainly anti fanatic, something you appear to characterize.
It all makes me even more skeptical as this is the sort of hyped up attitudes that characterize the environmental movement that I reject.
It’s all about power and control.


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Classic projection.


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no sophist wrote:

Ooo- got a short fuse dude. I’m familiar with the type. Would you like to pepper spray me from 20 feet away, smack me with a belt buckle with my back turned, sucker punch me?
I’m not anti environment, but certainly anti fanatic, something you appear to characterize.
It all makes me even more skeptical as this is the sort of hyped up attitudes that characterize the environmental movement that I reject.
It’s all about power and control.


no, just decided to take the time to address one of your multi-point posts of predictably mediocre ideas and i'm nowhere close to being a fanatic on the issue.


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Makalu wrote:
no sophist wrote:

Ooo- got a short fuse dude. I’m familiar with the type. Would you like to pepper spray me from 20 feet away, smack me with a belt buckle with my back turned, sucker punch me?
I’m not anti environment, but certainly anti fanatic, something you appear to characterize.
It all makes me even more skeptical as this is the sort of hyped up attitudes that characterize the environmental movement that I reject.
It’s all about power and control.


no, just decided to take the time to address one of your multi-point posts of predictably mediocre ideas and i'm nowhere close to being a fanatic on the issue.


Well I appreciate the effort but my opinions are not changing because you don’t like them.
And you make assumptions that are based on your misguided biases.
The box I’ll put you in is suffering from utopian wet dreams.


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no sophist wrote:

Well I appreciate the effort but my opinions are not changing because you don’t like them.
And you make assumptions that are based on your misguided biases.
The box I’ll put you in is suffering from utopian wet dreams.



Translation: "I can't back up any of my mediocre ideas...but i can find a place for those that disagree in my mediocre worldview."


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Makalu wrote:
no sophist wrote:

Well I appreciate the effort but my opinions are not changing because you don’t like them.
And you make assumptions that are based on your misguided biases.
The box I’ll put you in is suffering from utopian wet dreams.



Translation: "I can't back up any of my mediocre ideas...but i can find a place for those that disagree in my mediocre worldview."


I make my own decisions about who I want to discuss my ideas with.
You raving gives little incentive.


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lol i'd say your post was raving and you've a mediocre excuse to not support it here.


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Makalu wrote:
lol i'd say your post was raving and you've a mediocre excuse to not support it here.


So what would you like to discuss, your Fox News assumption, your assumptions about my corporate masters?
Come on man, get a life.
I really don’t care what you think about me.


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people enjoy convenience and refreshment, yet most people still want to and try to do the right thing. america has been tied to an electrical grid and the eisenhower high way system. it made things very convenient to ubiquitize the culture, and radio had a lot to do with it. now, it can be said that people have access to information, but the culture of cities has been subjected to a series of trials from the commercial realm, more import less export and production of material quanities overall. the phase of consumer malls, has ended but the policy of importation has continued. when you are forced to compete against other producers, it sometimes seems wiser to study the competitions methods, but incorporating too many strategies from one's competitors has led to an economy that wastes too much: america producing less metal goods, and more 3-D printed products. a patent does not hold the same weight in the 21st century, if it is just a format for producing with preexisting technology. civilization is built the same way: reliant on a few excellent inventions to shape its processes. well the truth is that geniuses do not exactly have to reinvent the methods that preserve the fertility of the planet. this is well-known to indigenous Amazonians, who produced quantities of the most valuable substance on Urantia: the black earth. if their tribes are no longer accomodated in our world, if reservations are not made, then you will have a difficulty preserving those traditions as well. all of civilization is in jeopardy because the traditions of mankind, especially in the keeping of the seeds for future generation, and how to prepare the grain for consumption, cannot be bestowed in terms of intrinsic knowledge, as from parent to child, through technology, through an instruction manual, or even a choreography of excellent work-performances.

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no sophist wrote:
Makalu wrote:
lol i'd say your post was raving and you've a mediocre excuse to not support it here.


So what would you like to discuss, your Fox News assumption, your assumptions about my corporate masters?
Come on man, get a life.
I really don’t care what you think about me.


well i'll admit that i've never seen fox news and never had that channel even if i wanted to watch it. all i needed to know is that it was founded and headed by roger ailes. friend of yours?

feel free to discuss any of your ideas...let me know if i need to dissect one of your other multipoint posts to help you out.


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Makalu wrote:
no sophist wrote:
Makalu wrote:
lol i'd say your post was raving and you've a mediocre excuse to not support it here.


So what would you like to discuss, your Fox News assumption, your assumptions about my corporate masters?
Come on man, get a life.
I really don’t care what you think about me.


well i'll admit that i've never seen fox news and never had that channel even if i wanted to watch it. all i needed to know is that it was founded and headed by roger ailes. friend of yours?

feel free to discuss any of your ideas...let me know if i need to dissect one of your other multipoint posts to help you out.


Let’s see - you don’t watch Fox News, you assume I do and you have dissected it for me.
Right.
That’s a self righteous troll scenario. You can keep it.


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no sophist wrote:

Let’s see - you don’t watch Fox News, you assume I do and you have dissected it for me.
Right.
That’s a self righteous troll scenario. You can keep it.


no i dont watch any television news at all except when something major is ongoing like 9/11 or the boston bombing...i watched the notre dame fire for an hour or so.

i never said nor implied you watch fox news...it was a response to your accusation of propaganda which you can neither refute nor support apparently.

your disjointed multipoint posts require dissection...don't blame me


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Will you two - makalu and nosophist - please at least TRY to be a little friendlier to each other?

I, and possibly others, would appreciate it.

maryjo


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Back to the topic....

Sounds like every reader here agrees that environmental stewardship is keenly important. And all or most agree that poor stewardship and social priorities since industrialization have resulted in some harsh realities...in addition to and regardless of any climate change. Otherwise we quibble over some side issues like causes and effects and solutions.

But the answer to the original question remains an unequivocal "Yes!"


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No I think the question is not "yes", but you looked this week at G20 Summit, and what do you hear in America about policy recommendation, the prudent approach towards environmental stewardship from reporters or leaders? Did you hear the story about how each family can learn to grow more produce and consume less plastics? There is another issue, through the media, people are being intimidated, distracted, and excused from wantonness and excessive consumer habits, ever since George Bush Jr. sorry told Americans that the best thing to help America after 9 11 is "to shop". This is a wing of American Policy, "to suppress" and "assuage" the public from what Its Corporations are doing to Urantia.

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