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Thank you Kat. For those who wish to discuss the arrival of soul and kat's proposed thesis that it is the Holy Spirit, rather than the Thought Adjuster, who is the co-parent of soul, please go to: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5603 Kat originated this claim at that topic and I'd like it to develop further there rather than here....for now.

This is a new concept to many of us and certainly is worthy of a thorough and detailed discussion and examination of the text for clarification. The role of the Holy Spirit is a very interesting and important topic to study, especially related to Evolutionary Religion & Religious Experience. I hope we can sort out the influences and sequences of the birth of soul prior to this examination of the role of evolutionary religion in the individual life prior to revelatory religion once the TA arrives.

Kat has also claimed here that children are not born with connection to all 7 adjutants...we are not fully encircuited. To me this claim means we are not born as people. Kat claims we are born connected to 6 of the 7 so we are also not animals. I contend that personality and connection to the 7 adjutants delivers the dual nature of animal and spirit and comes at birth or very, very early in life. Kat contends the dual nature only arrives with soul, even though she believe the adjutant of worship is connected to children. So that is now two propositions and claims by Kat with which I disagree and do not find adequate evidence in the text for - the soul is co-created by the Holy Spirit (not the TA) and that we are not born with connection to the 7 adjutants until soul is born...so there is no evolutionary religious experience personally prior to or until and but for that instant when the 7th adjutant connects and the soul flashes into being and only then do we become dual natured beings for we cannot have any form of spiritual nature until after the birth of soul (I hope I am accurately presenting all these concepts which are brand new to me I must confess....and after so long reading and so much study....to have never discovered this or heard it from any other student....remarkable claims to me frankly).

36:5.16 (403.4) The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.

Humans are defined as personality creatures which are free will creatures and it is our connection to both of the higher adjutants that differentiates humans from animals. Kat's claims appear to mean that human children are not quite human and cannot have spiritual or religious experience or growth prior to the birth of soul at which time the 7th adjutant circuit is connected....so no religious experience, no 7th adjutant, no soul - until the Holy Spirit delivers all 3 at once....or so I understand the claims.

65:6.10 (738.3) The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.


85:7.3 (948.8) When the worship urge is admonished and directed by wisdom—meditative and experiential thinking—it then begins to develop into the phenomenon of real religion. When the seventh adjutant spirit, the spirit of wisdom, achieves effective ministration, then in worship man begins to turn away from nature and natural objects to the God of nature and to the eternal Creator of all things natural.

So does it "achieve" this functionality by its lack of presence? Or by its circuited connection to the young mind? This circuit is not connected until after its operationally effective? Hmmmm…..

34:5.3 (379.3) Mortal man first experiences the ministry of the Spirit in conjunction with mind when the purely animal mind of evolutionary creatures develops reception capacity for the adjutants of worship and of wisdom. This ministry of the sixth and seventh adjutants indicates mind evolution crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry. And immediately are such minds of worship- and wisdom-function included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister.

This means to me that all 7 adjutant circuits are engaged together by human mind and we are endowed with personality and free will all at the same time. We evolve spiritually and religiously to eventually give birth to soul but the Holy Spirit can certainly minister to children's developing and evolving minds prior to the birth of soul.

34:5.5 (379.5) Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son. The Holy Spirit is partly independent of human attitude and partially conditioned by the decisions and co-operation of the will of man. Nevertheless, the ministry of the Holy Spirit becomes increasingly effective in the sanctification and spiritualization of the inner life of those mortals who the more fully obey the divine leadings.

34:5.6 (379.6) As individuals you do not personally possess a segregated portion or entity of the spirit of the Creator Father-Son or the Creative Mother Spirit; these ministries do not contact with, nor indwell, the thinking centers of the individual’s mind as do the Mystery Monitors. Thought Adjusters are definite individualizations of the prepersonal reality of the Universal Father, actually indwelling the mortal mind as a very part of that mind, and they ever work in perfect harmony with the combined spirits of the Creator Son and Creative Spirit.

So how do children and primitive people have any form of religious experience or the faith assurance and testimony of survival and paternal affection prior to soul birth if they are not connected to the 7th adjutant and are not connected to the Holy Spirit?? Anyone who says that children are not spiritual or responsive to spirit and do not grow in spirit and do not have religious urges and connections and do not face and resolve conflicts of self interest and the altruistic urges of sharing, caring, and generosity overcoming me-first thinking simply knows nothing at all about children!!

92:0.1 (1003.1) MAN possessed a religion of natural origin as a part of his evolutionary experience long before any systematic revelations were made on Urantia. But this religion of natural origin was, in itself, the product of man’s superanimal endowments. Evolutionary religion arose slowly throughout the millenniums of mankind’s experiential career through the ministry of the following influences operating within, and impinging upon, savage, barbarian, and civilized man:

92:0.2 (1003.2) 1. The adjutant of worship—the appearance in animal consciousness of superanimal potentials for reality perception. This might be termed the primordial human instinct for Deity.

92:0.3 (1003.3) 2. The adjutant of wisdom—the manifestation in a worshipful mind of the tendency to direct its adoration in higher channels of expression and toward ever-expanding concepts of Deity reality.

92:0.4 (1003.4) 3. The Holy Spirit—this is the initial supermind bestowal, and it unfailingly appears in all bona fide human personalities. This ministry to a worship-craving and wisdom-desiring mind creates the capacity to self-realize the postulate of human survival, both in theologic concept and as an actual and factual personality experience.

92:0.5 (1003.5) The co-ordinate functioning of these three divine ministrations is quite sufficient to initiate and prosecute the growth of evolutionary religion. These influences are later augmented by Thought Adjusters, seraphim, and the Spirit of Truth, all of which accelerate the rate of religious development. These agencies have long functioned on Urantia, and they will continue here as long as this planet remains an inhabited sphere. Much of the potential of these divine agencies has never yet had opportunity for expression; much will be revealed in the ages to come as mortal religion ascends, level by level, toward the supernal heights of morontia value and spirit truth.

It seems so obvious that the very definition of human is the mind connection to all 7 adjutants AND the Holy Spirit which combine to deliver a preparatory evolutionary personal religious experience which leads to the birth of soul and the God Fragment indwelling and the ministry of the Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit hovers over the encircuited mind providing ministry and formative experience and coordinated urges and affirmations and assurances which lead TO a mind spiritualized sufficiently for soul. The "connection" of all 7 Adjutants does not mean the "functionality" of all 7 so much as the potential for all 7 to function due to spirit ministry and maturity of mind... or experience.

Connection and function are two different, evolutionary steps...but one may not have function of a circuit or the potential function of a circuit that is not connected. One may not make a moral choice without the circuit connection which provides for that choice and execution of wisdom. Wisdom is learned by evolutionary experience and that connection must be open to executed the circuit connection. Likewise is the Minister or Holy Spirit providing religious experience that is based on faith prior to the ministry of revelation. One leads to the other....evolutionarily. Or so I have always understood the UB to teach.


But planetary evolutionary religion and social progress depends upon all forms of religious experience and sources, including evolutionary faith assurance, personal revelation, and epochal revelation. And that remains the topic here for a season yet.

103:0.1 (1129.1) ALL of man’s truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths. As evolution advances on an inhabited world, the Thought Adjusters increasingly participate in the development of the higher types of human religious insight. The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.

103:0.2 (1129.2) The religious tendencies of the human races are innate; they are universally manifested and have an apparently natural origin; primitive religions are always evolutionary in their genesis.....

So...primitive people were not altruistic and we are told that they did not even think unless first hungry!! And yet:

100:4.5 (1098.2) In the mind’s eye conjure up a picture of one of your primitive ancestors of cave-dwelling times—a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead. Such a picture hardly depicts the divine dignity of man. But allow us to enlarge the picture. In front of this animated human crouches a saber-toothed tiger. Behind him, a woman and two children. Immediately you recognize that such a picture stands for the beginnings of much that is fine and noble in the human race, but the man is the same in both pictures. Only, in the second sketch you are favored with a widened horizon. You therein discern the motivation of this evolving mortal. His attitude becomes praiseworthy because you understand him. If you could only fathom the motives of your associates, how much better you would understand them. If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them. *


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fanofVan wrote:
Do you need details? We have a single nature with 5 adjutants and a dual nature with 7. Animals are connected to 5 and humans with 7...2 higher which delivers personality and free will choice and inner conflict for resolution.

This is not complicated. Sigh....



Animals do not uniformly possess 5 mindspirits of adjutant functioning. Initially, both plant and animal life potentials are contained within the spark of the holy spirit. The adjutant mind ministry ascends within the evolutionary development, as the Divine Minister or Life Carriers, or their agencies, make contact within the life plasm of the "living vehicles", the self-replicating life-structures on a planet.

Also, humans "having" 7 potentials for adjutant mind function on Urantia, it is true in potential. Maybe it is true let us say Giraffes have this great potential too, the adjutant mind-spirit of counsel. Even so, humans if selective in social differentials, associations with others and the types of encounters they wish in their everyday affairs, having a greater potential. It means you are using the life within you to choose on your own, with minimal need for adjutant function, spurring you along your adaptations. If you can think of yourself as clay, you have the great potential, and the Divine Minister merely shaping you from the outside, or preparing the mold of the next generation for the world's next series of necessary adaptation. But also, the clay is not merely shaped by the Divine Minister's applications "from the outside upon you", but rather, you as an individuated rational soul, have learned in wisdom, how to allow the Thought Adjuster to form or shape "from within you", the kingdom of heaven.

Intuition, in terms of Urantian Evolution, is what helped animal species to have differentiated or separated from the life of plants, but all life is essentially the same pattern.

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Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:52 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Perspective matters. Looking at our current human mind from a higher plane, it still looks primitive to some. I think the most important thing in the development of religion from the viewpoint of the gods is the appearance of free will with the ability to choose eternal survival. That event happened about a million years ago so religion has been evolving ever since.

It's written that nature worship was the first response to the adjutant of worship, number six. But since adjutant ministry evolves, it continued to work within the minds of primitive man to encourage use of wisdom, the next highest adjutant, because that is when real religion begins. Reference:

(948.6) 85:7.1 Nature worship may seem to have arisen naturally and spontaneously in the minds of primitive men and women, and so it did; but there was operating all this time in these same primitive minds the sixth adjutant spirit, which had been bestowed upon these peoples as a directing influence of this phase of human evolution. And this spirit was constantly stimulating the worship urge of the human species, no matter how primitive its first manifestations might be. The spirit of worship gave definite origin to the human impulse to worship, notwithstanding that animal fear motivated the expression of worshipfulness, and that its early practice became centered upon objects of nature.

(948.8 ) 85:7.3 When the worship urge is admonished and directed by wisdom — meditative and experiential thinking — it then begins to develop into the phenomenon of real religion. When the seventh adjutant spirit, the spirit of wisdom, achieves effective ministration, then in worship man begins to turn away from nature and natural objects to the God of nature and to the eternal Creator of all things natural.

But what is it about the seventh adjutant that makes for real religion? The united functioning of all seven adjutants immediately puts the primitive mind in the circuit of the Holy Spirit, and for the first time, that mind is exposed to the supernatural, or supermaterial level of reality. Having worshipped nature, now there is something higher than nature to be feared. It is with the birth of the soul that the primitive mind gets this "sense" of the supernatural. The birth of the soul and the personal presence of the Holy Spirit, along with a budding spirit consciousness was sufficient to produce the concept of Deity long before Adjusters uniformly arrived.

(950.2) 86:0.2 Man’s earliest prereligious fear of the forces of nature gradually became religious as nature became personalized, spiritized, and eventually deified in human consciousness. Religion of a primitive type was therefore a natural biologic consequence of the psychologic inertia of evolving animal minds after such minds had once entertained concepts of the supernatural.

Without the Holy Spirit, the human mind, whether it be primitive or not, would be unable to conceive of a personalized, spiritized and deified reality. Even today there are those who react to this with fear. It is no wonder the savage did as well, and fear is the beginning of real religion. Reference:

(1004.2) 92:1.4 Mystery and power have always stimulated religious feelings and fears, while emotion has ever functioned as a powerful conditioning factor in their development. Fear has always been the basic religious stimulus. Fear fashions the gods of evolutionary religion and motivates the religious ritual of the primitive believers. As civilization advances, fear becomes modified by reverence, admiration, respect, and sympathy and is then further conditioned by remorse and repentance.

Primitives were afraid of the supernatural and in response developed rules of living to coerce the gods. This was the beginning of wisdom censoring the fear of worship with concepts of right and wrong, establishing rules of living. Wisdom urged the process of instituting morality and ethics, which continued to evolve over the millennia, sponsoring the development of society and civilization. Of course when the Adjusters began coming in greater numbers, the concept of true right and wrong began to evolve as well in the form of personal religious experience, and so too did civilization evolve in its wake. Reference:

(956.2) 86:6.6 But at last the mind of primitive man was occupied with thoughts which transcended all of his inherent biologic urges; at last man was about to evolve an art of living based on something more than response to material stimuli. The beginnings of a primitive philosophic life policy were emerging. A supernatural standard of living was about to appear, for, if the spirit ghost in anger visits ill luck and in pleasure good fortune, then must human conduct be regulated accordingly. The concept of right and wrong had at last evolved; and all of this long before the times of any revelation on earth.

(1198.7) 109:4.4   The indwelling Adjusters have in no small measure co-operated with other spiritual influences in transforming and humanizing the descendants of the primitive men of olden ages. If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly return to many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.


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katroofjebus wrote:
(950.2) 86:0.2 Man’s earliest prereligious fear of the forces of nature gradually became religious as nature became personalized, spiritized, and eventually deified in human consciousness. Religion of a primitive type was therefore a natural biologic consequence of the psychologic inertia of evolving animal minds after such minds had once entertained concepts of the supernatural.


Katroof: what do you think this idea of this "momentum" or "inertia", in terms of man's evolution? What does it mean that games like "hunting" are no longer valid criterion for the selection of one's spouse. And is it true that one must as a child begin with the spirit of intuition in terms of psychological development, becoming adept in courage before knowledge may be garnered or counsel may be offered through one's works?

What is the true psychological inheritance of Andon and Fonta, and what are the ramifications (of Andon and Fonta's true psychological inheritance) upon the human individual philosophically speaking? Andon and Fonta became morally responsible for their own tribe, but also human individuals as the keepers of Urantia, responsible now for selective cultivation, you know as farmers and scientists, of every species, seeing beneficial future potentials for all life on Urantia, even those plants and animals which currently pose as adversaries to our civilization.

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fanofVan wrote:
Kat has also claimed here that children are not born with connection to all 7 adjutants...we are not fully encircuited. To me this claim means we are not born as people.


That's a legitimate concern. And since we have no idea when personality arrives we can only speculate about it. But unfortunately I did not say that newborn babies are not connected to seven adjutants. I said they are not all functioning. Function is dependent upon capacity and the infant brain does not have the capacity for functioning worship or wisdom. Have you ever seen a newborn pray or contemplate confusions over right and wrong? No, you haven't. Newborns sleep 20 hours a day and are primarily instinctive, crying when hungry or uncomfortable and reflexively reacting to their environment. Have you ever wondered why the rooting reflex disappears after a few months? It's because newborns are essentially blind the first few months and the only way they know that a nipple is nearby is through this reflex. There are other reflexes that disappear within the first year of an infant's life and they are first adjutant reflexes put there specifically to assist the newborn in survival and growth so capacity can be increased for other adjutant functions. This means that potential may be present for all seven adjutants to function, but they don't immediately begin to function at birth.

fanofVan wrote:
Kat claims we are born connected to 6 of the 7 so we are also not animals.


Obviously you misunderstood why I mentioned the sixth adjutant. The reason was to help you realize that what you called the "animal mind" and claimed had only 5 adjutants, cannot be right if a newborn is to be considered a human being. The sixth adjutant marks the transition into human status. Sorry you missed that point and assigned to me an untruth instead. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

fanofVan wrote:
I contend that personality and connection to the 7 adjutants delivers the dual nature of animal and spirit and comes at birth or very, very early in life.


Like you I would love to believe that personality is present at birth, but I honestly don't know when it is bestowed, and neither do you. However, you may believe whatever makes you comfortable. And as I said earlier, the seven adjutants cannot provide two natures because they all act as one. They are unified in a bona fide human being. Additionally, they also disappear after physical death, so what's the point in having two minds if they both are destined to vanish? It certainly does not provide assurance.

But what you, and so many others seem to forget is the role that personality plays in all of this. The awareness of self and other selves is a feature of personality. At some point in the infant's early life "other selves" begin to take on a great deal of significance, which lends credence to the very early bestowal of personality. And in the mind of the child, personality is the reason why alter-egos are formed, because the need to relate to another personality both externally and internally begins to emerge. This is in addition to the sixth adjutant's religious urge and the seventh adjutant's prodding to discover the difference between right and wrong (morality).

fanofVan wrote:
So that is now two propositions and claims by Kat with which I disagree and do not find adequate evidence in the text for - the soul is co-created by the Holy Spirit (not the TA) and that we are not born with connection to the 7 adjutants until soul is born...so there is no evolutionary religious experience personally prior to or until and but for that instant when the 7th adjutant connects and the soul flashes into being and only then do we become dual natured beings for we cannot have any form of spiritual nature until after the birth of soul (I hope I am accurately presenting all these concepts which are brand new to me I must confess....and after so long reading and so much study....to have never discovered this or heard it from any other student....remarkable claims to me frankly).


Have you ever considered editing what you write? That might actually be the longest sentence ever written, at least that I've seen. Please allow me to unpack it all bit by bit, not in the spirit of defense but for greater clarity.

You claim there is no adequate evidence in the text for the requirement that the Holy Spirit create the capacity for the Thought Adjuster in the soul, yet I have supplied the exact reference to that effect. So the inadequacy is not in the text, but in your interpretation of the text. And since you are liberty to interpret any way you choose, so be it. But please do not accuse me of failure to provide supporting evidence.

You also claim we are born with seven adjutants but you will not be able to find any such thing written in the Revelation. Therefore, it is again, a matter of interpretation. I, for one, have not made a claim one way or the other. I think it is wholly possible that the potential may be present for seven adjutants to be present, but I'm quite certain the capacity is not present at birth.

Now here is where you lose me. You write:

Quote:
so there is no evolutionary religious experience personally prior to or until and but for that instant when the 7th adjutant connects and the soul flashes into being and only then do we become dual natured beings for we cannot have any form of spiritual nature until after the birth of soul


I guess you wrote this before my last post where I describe how the sixth adjutant is responsible for the religious urge. So, you're complaining about something I never said and instead overreacting to what you think I said. So let me help you understand what I mean.

What I said is there is no dual nature until the soul is born. That has nothing to do with the religious impulse functioning in the child or in aboriginal man prior to soul birth. The religious impulse comes from the spirit of worship. The seventh adjutant, the spirit of wisdom, attempts to direct that urge or impulse toward Deity, but without a soul there is no Deity, there is only an intellectual adjutant idea of deity, yet sufficient for the mind to continue the search. Let me repeat that the urges, drives and impulses supplied by adjutant mind ministry are not spiritual, they are material, they produce material ideas, not supermaterial ideas. This does not mean that material urges are not religious, it simply means they are not spiritual. Spiritual urges, or ministry, come from the Spirit in the soul, whatever Spirit happens to be there, who provides supermaterial meanings for those material ideas.

So I hope you can grasp this: Religion is present in the mind before the birth of the soul, otherwise the soul would not be born. The fact that the soul is born is proof that religious urges, and experience with those urges pre-exist it.

(1130.6) 103:2.1 Religion is functional in the human mind and has been realized in experience prior to its appearance in human consciousness. A child has been in existence about nine months before it experiences birth. But the “birth” of religion is not sudden; it is rather a gradual emergence. Nevertheless, sooner or later there is a “birth day.”

The spiritual urge comes from spirit, and the adjutants are not actual spirits despite the fact that the word appears in their names. The dual nature is described in this next reference as "two masters", one is ancestral, the other is divine. So again, no soul, no dual nature. It's crystal clear to me.

(1199.5) 109:5.4 The great problem of life is the adjustment of the ancestral tendencies of living to the demands of the spiritual urges initiated by the divine presence of the Mystery Monitor. While in the universe and superuniverse careers no man can serve two masters, in the life you now live on Urantia every man must perforce serve two masters. He must become adept in the art of a continuous human temporal compromise while he yields spiritual allegiance to but one master; and this is why so many falter and fail, grow weary and succumb to the stress of the evolutionary struggle.


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Thanks for the clarifications. I now find less disagreement than before...if not yet complete agreement...or understanding.


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fanofVan wrote:
Humans are defined as personality creatures which are free will creatures and it is our connection to both of the higher adjutants that differentiates humans from animals. Kat's claims appear to mean that human children are not quite human and cannot have spiritual or religious experience or growth prior to the birth of soul at which time the 7th adjutant circuit is connected....so no religious experience, no 7th adjutant, no soul - until the Holy Spirit delivers all 3 at once....or so I understand the claims.

65:6.10 (738.3) The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.


So there's more to unpack here. Again you assign to me an untruth. Thankfully you used the word "appear" because I did not claim that children are "not quite human". Perhaps you missed the part where I tried to convince you that in order to be considered human the lower "human mind" must have at least six adjutants, not five as you wrote. But I've been over this twice now so hopefully you understand.

And for the third untruth you assigned to me. You state that I claim that children "cannot have spiritual or religious experience or growth prior to the birth of soul". I will repeat once more that religious growth is not the same as spiritual growth. Religious growth is an adjutant sponsored evolution. Spiritual growth is a Spirit sponsored evolution which is also known as soul growth. Of course children have religious impulses and of course they have religious growth otherwise they would NEVER be able to give birth to a soul. I do hope you grasp this fact, I truly do.

And for the fourth untruth you assigned me. You state that I claim that the Holy Spirit delivers "all 3 at once". By three I guess you mean the Holy Spirit delivers religious experience, the seventh adjutant and the soul?? Perhaps you could be more specific? Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit encircuits the individual with a brand new personal spiritual ministry. That ministry creates the capacity for other spirit influences, specifically for us, the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster. This is called the soul. It is a mid-mind morontia phenomenon. It requires a moral decision and a moral decision requires worship and wisdom, all of which PRECEDE this soul ministry known as the Holy Spirit.

So, if you want to think of the Holy Spirit as delivering something, think of her delivering the capacity for the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster. Otherwise she does not deliver, she ministers, and her ministry is called the supermind, the intellectual consciousness of the soul which makes it possible to recognize the presence of Deity within it. You can't be God-conscious without a mind capable of such a thing, and that's what the Holy Spirit does. The material adjutant mind can only be conscious of ideas about God; it cannot actually be aware of his presence within the mind. That's the Holy Spirit's job. And listen, I've reproduced the same references for this over and over so I'm not going to do it yet again unless you specifically ask. I mean ask with specificity.

The reference you provided brilliantly explains what I've been saying. Here it is again so you don't have to scroll up and down:

(738.3) 65:6.10 The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.

The capacity for adjutant mind ministry is provided by the physical brain. I should point out that the physical brain of newborns is undeveloped, meaning it has not reached its full capacity despite it being potential within the evolving protoplasm. As the capacity of the brain develops so does adjutant mind ministry evolve.

Please note that it is not the brain but the mind of a personality that has an innate (which means potential) capacity for spirit receptivity. What this means is as the physical capacity increases, so does adjutant evolution in the mind, and as the adjutants evolve the mind the potential for spirit receptivity eventually emerges. That is what (1130.6) 103:2.1 is all about, meaning religion is functioning in the mind prior to consciousness of the fact of its being there. The adjutants work unconsciously in order to bring all this into consciousness so a decision can be made which leads to an even higher consciousness provided by the Holy Spirit, which is one of the superphysical associates referred to in the reference above.


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fanofVan wrote:
85:7.3 (948. When the worship urge is admonished and directed by wisdom—meditative and experiential thinking—it then begins to develop into the phenomenon of real religion. When the seventh adjutant spirit, the spirit of wisdom, achieves effective ministration, then in worship man begins to turn away from nature and natural objects to the God of nature and to the eternal Creator of all things natural.

So does it "achieve" this functionality by its lack of presence? Or by its circuited connection to the young mind? This circuit is not connected until after its operationally effective? Hmmmm…..


Again, I hope you realize that adjutant ministry evolves within the mind. This means that each adjutant differentially makes contact and begins to foster thought according to the nature of its individual ministry. Just because the seventh adjutant has contact with the developing mind of a child, or a primitive man, doesn't mean that it has been able to evolve thought to its desired potential. The use of the "function" or "functional" means it has succeeded in achieving the potential objective, preliminary work has paid off with proof of functionality. For the spirit of wisdom that objective is a moral choice at which time the spirit of wisdom becomes the coordinator and integrator, the chief, of all the other six adjutants. It's this unification in function that signals to the Universe Mother Spirit it's time to send the Holy Spirit which provides the capacity for the soul and its growth. So I find it a bit snarky to ask the question if functionality of a ministry is achieved by having no ministry at all.


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fanofVan wrote:
34:5.3 (379.3) Mortal man first experiences the ministry of the Spirit in conjunction with mind when the purely animal mind of evolutionary creatures develops reception capacity for the adjutants of worship and of wisdom. This ministry of the sixth and seventh adjutants indicates mind evolution crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry. And immediately are such minds of worship- and wisdom-function included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister.
This means to me that all 7 adjutant circuits are engaged together by human mind and we are endowed with personality and free will all at the same time. We evolve spiritually and religiously to eventually give birth to soul but the Holy Spirit can certainly minister to children's developing and evolving minds prior to the birth of soul.


Where in that reference does it mention personality endowment?

Ok, moving on. I certainly understand how you came to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit can minister to the adjutant mind from reading that quote. But that's because you overlooked a very critical word, and that word is "reception". There's another word too, the word "function". Another thing most likely overlooked is the attempt to understand something from one isolated paragraph. If you really want to understand something you have to study every single mention of it, and its related subjects, throughout the entire Revelation.

Let's pull apart the reference. Since the author capitalized the word "Spirit", my assumption is that he's referring to the indwelling Spirit, the Thought Adjuster. I could be wrong, he could also be referring to the Holy Spirit. We don't know for sure. But since it's capitalized, he is not referring to a generic spirit, or an adjutant. This means, most likely, the presence of a soul.

Next we learn that this experience with the "Spirit" is in conjunction with mind. That means connected in time or sequence. Then we're told the conjunction occurs when the sixth and seventh adjutants find reception capacity, and therein lies the key. It's not just capacity, as in potential capacity, but reception capacity, meaning the action of receiving. Reception capacity does not mean the number of people allowed in a banquet facility. (Just a little humor, sorry). This is another way of saying the adjutants have achieved functionality, they have arrived at the objective and they have been actively responded to by the personality. This activity forces the adjutant ministry to cross the threshold. From other references we know this activity is a free-will moral decision.

What does it mean to cross the threshold of spiritual ministry? What they are describing here is the overlap phenomenon which prevents any gaps in ministry. It's not the entire adjutant mind that crosses the threshold, it's just adjutants six and seven, now united under the direction of the seventh. Notice the reference to the word "function". At this point these mind ministers are considered functional. They have delivered the mind to the spiritual circuits of the local universe for further evolution.

And what does the universe do in response? It provides spiritual ministry in addition to adjutant ministry, but at the same time as adjutant ministry. In other words, the adjutants do not hand over the baton and cease functioning. The spiritual ministry they are referring to is the spiritual circuit of the Divine Minister known as the Holy Spirit, the very same Holy Spirit who provides soul intelligence.

Here is another reference which describes the united function of the adjutants under the direction of the seventh crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry:

(1186.8 ) 108:2.1 Though the Adjusters volunteer for service as soon as the personality forecasts have been relayed to Divinington, they are not actually assigned until the human subjects make their first moral personality decision. The first moral choice of the human child is automatically indicated in the seventh mind-adjutant and registers instantly, by way of the local universe Creative Spirit, over the universal mind-gravity circuit of the Conjoint Actor in the presence of the Master Spirit of superuniverse jurisdiction, who forthwith dispatches this intelligence to Divinington. Adjusters reach their human subjects on Urantia, on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday. In the present generation it is running five years, ten months, and four days; that is, on the 2,134th day of terrestrial life.

Besides providing a down-reaching connection with her spiritual ministry of the Holy Spirit, the Divine Minister also immediately dispatches the information upward to Divinigton to announce that capacity has been provided for the arrival of a Thought Adjuster. We know the Holy Spirit is critical for providing that capacity as explained in the following references which also explain that this same capacity does not occur until the seventh adjutant signals that the creature mind has exhibited wisdom function by choosing good instead of evil.

(1187.1) 108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster. Creature mind must exhibit the worship outreach and indicate wisdom function by exhibiting the ability to choose between the emerging values of good and evil — moral choice.

(1187.2) 108:2.3 Thus is the stage of the human mind set for the reception of Adjusters, but as a general rule they do not immediately appear to indwell such minds except on those worlds where the Spirit of Truth is functioning as a spiritual co-ordinator of these different spirit ministries. If this spirit of the bestowal Sons is present, the Adjusters unfailingly come the instant the seventh adjutant mind-spirit begins to function and signalizes to the Universe Mother Spirit that it has achieved in potential the co-ordination of the associated six adjutants of prior ministry to such a mortal intellect. Therefore have the divine Adjusters been universally bestowed upon all normal minds of moral status on Urantia ever since the day of Pentecost.

Here is yet another reference to the same event:

(1210.8 ) 110:6.13 The seventh circle. This level is entered when human beings develop the powers of personal choice, individual decision, moral responsibility, and the capacity for the attainment of spiritual individuality. This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind. Entrance upon the seventh circle constitutes a mortal creature a truly potential citizen of the local universe.

Take particular note of the first sentence which explains that this event occurs when the free-will power of the personality has developed. It doesn't mean that there was no free will prior to this event, it means the capacity for MORAL free will was in the developmental stage prior to this event. Once moral free-will is activated the individual exhibits its capacity for spiritual individuality – meaning the capacity to host a Thought Adjuster and develop spiritual identity.

The emphasis is on morality here, not just on making free-will choices. A toddler can obviously choose between spaghetti or mac and cheese but that is not a moral choice. Moral choosing requires wisdom, and wisdom is more than just the knowledge of the difference between right and wrong; wisdom is understanding the difference and its implications, then choosing what is right over what is wrong. This takes time and it depends on the intellect of the child as well as the environment it is learning in.

The choice to act morally in the face of the temptation to act immorally is an earned achievement. It takes time and effort to learn these things. Even so, moral choices are still human choices; they are not spiritual. But what it indicates is the capacity, or willingness to entertain the idea that there is a way to think and behave which is more in tune with the way the universe works. It also indicates the willingness to learn those ways. This is what brings the Holy Spirit and insight into spiritual ways. This is the soul we're talking about here. Insight is primarily a mind function and the Holy Spirit is the provider of the mechanism for the consciousness of such spiritual insight. The purpose, as the reference states, is to actualize a new potential universe citizen. This takes time and spiritual growth, which is what the seven psychic/cosmic circles are all about – attuning the psyche to the cosmos. That's the job of the Holy Spirit, the supermind, or the psyche of the soul.

Lest you think this has nothing to do with evolutionary religion, let me assure you that the birth of the soul is the natural result of it and the very beginning of true religion. True religion is the devotion of the self to the service of supreme values, the loyalty of love. There is a difference between religion and true religion; one is in man's image the other in God's image.

(1012:6)  92:7.5 Primitive religion was largely a material-value consciousness, but civilization elevates religious values, for true religion is the devotion of the self to the service of meaningful and supreme values. As religion evolves, ethics becomes the philosophy of morals, and morality becomes the discipline of self by the standards of highest meanings and supreme values—divine and spiritual ideals. And thus religion becomes a spontaneous and exquisite devotion, the living experience of the loyalty of love.


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fanofVan wrote:
So how do children and primitive people have any form of religious experience or the faith assurance and testimony of survival and paternal affection prior to soul birth if they are not connected to the 7th adjutant and are not connected to the Holy Spirit?? Anyone who says that children are not spiritual or responsive to spirit and do not grow in spirit and do not have religious urges and connections and do not face and resolve conflicts of self interest and the altruistic urges of sharing, caring, and generosity overcoming me-first thinking simply knows nothing at all about children!!


I think we already covered this. From what I gather I don't think you fully understood the role of the spirits of worship and wisdom in the process. Hopefully you do now and realize that they are preparatory to the coming of the Holy Spirit and spiritual ministry. I also hope you understand the difference between the presence of seven adjutants and the actual united functioning of seven adjutants. Unfortunately I don't know if you'll ever understand the role of the Holy Spirit in the birth of the soul, but I live in hope that someday you will. I hope you'll discover that the Holy Spirit cannot function until all seven adjutants are united and have receptive capacity, meaning the mind has discovered, recognized and utilized their ministry, with the proof being a free-will moral action. Additionally, I hope you understand the concept of moral decision. Sharing one's toys is not necessarily a moral decision worthy of crossing the spiritual threshold. There has to be a conscious understanding of the meaning of the difference between good and evil and then the conscious choice for good. This all takes time to develop, about six years.

fanofVan wrote:
It seems so obvious that the very definition of human is the mind connection to all 7 adjutants AND the Holy Spirit which combine to deliver a preparatory evolutionary personal religious experience which leads to the birth of soul and the God Fragment indwelling and the ministry of the Spirit of Truth.


Yes, that's correct except the Holy Spirit doesn't lead to the birth of the soul, it IS the birth of the soul. But there's another critical thing you're overlooking. What you are describing is a BONA FIDE human being. Human beings earn that. As soon as the sixth adjutant makes contact a creature becomes human. It takes much more to become a bona fide human as was so eloquently described in the evolution of the minds of Andon and Fonta. A bona fide human being is one in whom the ability to choose has arrived at the point of moral responsibility and the personality is considered to have the capacity for spiritual individuality. This is a personality who has entered the seventh psychic circle, which is exactly what you are describing. Toddlers and preschool children are human, they have personality, they have worship and wisdom ministry, but they have yet to earn their bona fides. They haven't developed enough to cross the spiritual threshold and earn a soul. It's the soul which makes a human bona fide. (And incidentally, those cosmic mind reality reflexes which always show up in bona fide human beings, also need a soul.)

There's another thing you overlook and that is the fact that the Holy Spirit ministry is in no way directly related to the adjutants. If the Holy Spirit, as you claim, works with the adjutants to prepare for the coming of the soul, how does she do that if she is not directly related to them, and as it says in the reference below, they are antecedent to her appearance. You're saying that the adjutants and Holy Spirit work together to prepare the mind for soul birth, but the reference says the exact opposite. The adjutants come first, they evolve to full function and unite, and when that is all accomplished, the Holy Spirit finally comes. The adjutants are antecedent.

(403.4) 36:5.16 The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.

fanofVan wrote:
The Holy Spirit hovers over the encircuited mind providing ministry and formative experience and coordinated urges and affirmations and assurances which lead TO a mind spiritualized sufficiently for soul.


Yeah, that's sounds real nice Bradly but I don't think it exists in the Revelation. Firstly, the adjutants indwell rather than encircuit, read (1187.1) 108:2.2. And yes, the Holy Spirit does hover, it does minister to the soul mind, and yes it provides spiritual insight and assurance, but it is a ministry only to the soul. Sorry. The Holy Spirit only ministers to a mind that has a spiritual response. Reference:

(403.3) 36:5.15 Living mind, prior to the appearance of capacity to learn from experience, is the ministry domain of the Master Physical Controllers. Creature mind, before acquiring the ability to recognize divinity and worship Deity, is the exclusive domain of the adjutant spirits. With the appearance of the spiritual response of the creature intellect, such created minds at once become superminded, being instantly encircuited in the spirit cycles of the local universe Mother Spirit.

What is spiritual response? I think it's the ability to recognize Deity and respond to spiritual gravity, but Jesus explained it better to Ganid when highlighting the difference between a dog and a human being with a soul. In the reference below are outlined the ingredients of spiritual response:
1. the ability to discriminate higher and moral meanings, i.e. spiritual discrimination, a soul function and the third cosmic mind reflex
2. the ability to choose spiritual values, i.e. truth sensitivity, also a soul experience.
3. spiritual responsibility, or moral responsibility, a pre-requisite for the soul and a necessity for ongoing soul growth.

(1431.3) 130:2.8 That afternoon Jesus and Ganid had both enjoyed playing with a very intelligent shepherd dog, and Ganid wanted to know whether the dog had a soul, whether it had a will, and in response to his questions Jesus said: “The dog has a mind which can know material man, his master, but cannot know God, who is spirit; therefore the dog does not possess a spiritual nature and cannot enjoy a spiritual experience. The dog may have a will derived from nature and augmented by training, but such a power of mind is not a spiritual force, neither is it comparable to the human will, inasmuch as it is not reflective — it is not the result of discriminating higher and moral meanings or choosing spiritual and eternal values. It is the possession of such powers of spiritual discrimination and truth choosing that makes mortal man a moral being, a creature endowed with the attributes of spiritual responsibility and the potential of eternal survival.” Jesus went on to explain that it is the absence of such mental powers in the animal which makes it forever impossible for the animal world to develop language in time or to experience anything equivalent to personality survival in eternity. As a result of this day’s instruction Ganid never again entertained belief in the transmigration of the souls of men into the bodies of animals

fanofVan wrote:
Connection and function are two different, evolutionary steps...but one may not have function of a circuit or the potential function of a circuit that is not connected. One may not make a moral choice without the circuit connection which provides for that choice and execution of wisdom. Wisdom is learned by evolutionary experience and that connection must be open to executed the circuit connection.


Yep, that's right and what I've been saying.

fanofVan wrote:
Likewise is the Minister or Holy Spirit providing religious experience that is based on faith prior to the ministry of revelation. One leads to the other....evolutionarily. Or so I have always understood the UB to teach.


This makes no sense to me. I hope you know that the Holy Spirit is a personal spiritual circuit of ministry which is part of the consciousness of the Divine Minister. But this is only one attribute of the Divine Minister, and not her only function in her universe. I also hope you understand that the Holy Spirit is the supermind of the soul, the soul's intelligence. There is no other ministry she performs besides that very one to the soul. And I'm sure you know that faith is a spiritual gift and cannot be had without a soul. It's called faith-insight into spiritual realities which needs a spiritual mind to become conscious of it, i.e. the supermind of the soul. Faith comes with the soul and not before because it is a gift to the soul, which is why it is the only requirement for survival. Even the slightest flicker, the smallest of souls, will enter into the next life.

(1209.1) 110:6.18    The mastery of the cosmic circles is related to the quantitative growth of the morontia soul, the comprehension of supreme meanings. But the qualitative status of this immortal soul is wholly dependent on the grasp of living faith upon the Paradise-potential fact-value that mortal man is a son of the eternal God. Therefore does a seventh circler go on to the mansion worlds to attain further quantitative realization of cosmic growth just as does a second or even a first circler.

(1108.1) 101:3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
(950.2) 86:0.2 Man’s earliest prereligious fear of the forces of nature gradually became religious as nature became personalized, spiritized, and eventually deified in human consciousness. Religion of a primitive type was therefore a natural biologic consequence of the psychologic inertia of evolving animal minds after such minds had once entertained concepts of the supernatural.

Katroof: what do you think this idea of this "momentum" or "inertia", in terms of man's evolution?


The primitive mind was lazy. It wasn't until it encountered something it didn't understand, the supernatural, that the momentum of religious evolution took hold. In other words, the psyche was stimulated or prodded by entertaining concepts of the supernatural.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
What does it mean that games like "hunting" are no longer valid criterion for the selection of one's spouse.


It means that mores change with the culture. Morality is a purely human invention, but a necessary one. Don't forget that after the genome was unstepped by Adam and Eve choosing a mate began to involve the romantic nature in addition to the biological nature.

(923.5) 83:2.5 Increasing love, romance, and personal selection in premarital courtship are an Andite contribution to the world races. The relations between the sexes are evolving favorably; many advancing peoples are gradually substituting somewhat idealized concepts of sex attraction for those older motives of utility and ownership. Sex impulse and feelings of affection are beginning to displace cold calculation in the choosing of life partners.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
And is it true that one must as a child begin with the spirit of intuition in terms of psychological development, becoming adept in courage before knowledge may be garnered or counsel may be offered through one's works?


I think the first adjutant is very prominent in a newborn infant's mental makeup, but it is quickly overshadowed by the others as brain capacity increases. By the age of two the child is mostly concerned with establishing the ego-self because personality has a very strong unifying influence over the mind. This is actually a crucial step in mental development.

(1131.8 ) 103:2.9 But before a child has developed sufficiently to acquire moral capacity and therefore to be able to choose altruistic service, he has already developed a strong and well-unified egoistic nature.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
What is the true psychological inheritance of Andon and Fonta, and what are the ramifications (of Andon and Fonta's true psychological inheritance) upon the human individual philosophically speaking? Andon and Fonta became morally responsible for their own tribe, but also human individuals as the keepers of Urantia, responsible now for selective cultivation, you know as farmers and scientists, of every species, seeing beneficial future potentials for all life on Urantia, even those plants and animals which currently pose as adversaries to our civilization.


Our genetic inheritance is currently so varied, I don't think it's possible to claim that "this" or "that" trait is specifically Andonic in origin unless you're an Eskimo or Lapp. I also do not see a connection between Andon and Fonta's morality and current morality. As I said above, the mores change with every passing generation. Morals are entirely human but they can be enhanced by spiritual insight into true values of right and wrong, which is ethics.

(2096.1) 196:3.25 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster's inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight. The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.

(1127.8 )102:8.4 Ethics is the external social or racial mirror which faithfully reflects the otherwise unobservable progress of internal spiritual and religious developments.


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I have a question:

I was a typical baby-boomer and my mother made sure I went to the United Presbyterian Sunday School at our local small town church. When I was four years old I clearly remember looking at the famous "Behold I stand at the door and knock" painting and singing "Into my heart, into my heart, come into my heart Lord Jesus. Come in today, come in to stay, come into my heart Lord Jesus" and sincerely wanting Him to come in. It was not simple childlike repetition of a song, I really wanted Jesus "in my heart". For my entire life that has been a milestone, a reference point I have never forgotten, and I always, in evangelical terms, considered that as my moment of decision. It was reinforced at the age of 18 by a more adult experience of "receiving the Holy Spirit" at a Jesus People rally in 1970, which was also a life changing moment.

So my question is "What happened?" All this discussion about the mechanics and dynamics is very interesting, but in my experiential religious path this discussion is equivalent to arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin. These were not mere emotional experiences they were a life changing reality that marked my spiritual growth and desire to know Him.


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pethuel wrote:
So my question is "What happened?"


The song you were singing was a prayer urged by the spirit of worship. I had the same experience, except I did not sing. I used to actually go into my bedroom closet to pray, as Jesus instructed in the Bible, and there I would ask him to come to me. I was four years old too and I can tell you I really wanted him to come in the worst way. I don't know exactly when he actually showed up, but I do know the exact moment when I first understood he lived inside of me. I was eight and going through some deep moral and spiritual issues at the time. He was there and we've been friends ever since.

No one knows the exact moment the soul is born but the Revelation gives us the average age. We're informed that not even Jesus was conscious of the event. Consciousness grows over time, but the ability to recognize the adjutant urge to pray is very often conscious since it is in our material minds; it's front and center. Consciousness of the presence of Deity in the soul is not part of our material minds and therefore requires some soul growth in order for it to happen, except in extraordinary circumstances called conversions.

Why I became aware at age eight is probably due to the personal spiritual desperation I was experiencing at the time and the need for companionship due to abandonment by my earth parents. For some reason I felt like I needed to help them and in order to do so I needed superhuman assistance. Once I found Jesus, I never let go of him. The reason is because I found a person instead of an idea. It's much easier to hold onto a person, which is why the Spirit of Truth is such a gift, given that the Thought Adjuster is not an actual person, but a pre-person.

You and I were fortunate to have been introduced to the beautiful nature of Jesus when we were very young, but not only that, we were taught that Jesus really wants not only to be with us, but live in us as well. What trusting mind wouldn't want that desperately? Unfortunately, there are way too many untrusting minds today, afraid to answer the knock at the door.

(2083.2) 195:9.6 Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus because of their fears of what it will do to them — and with them. And all such fears are well founded. The religion of Jesus does, indeed, dominate and transform its believers, demanding that men dedicate their lives to seeking for a knowledge of the will of the Father in heaven and requiring that the energies of living be consecrated to the unselfish service of the brotherhood of man.


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pethuel wrote:
I have a question:

I was a typical baby-boomer and my mother made sure I went to the United Presbyterian Sunday School at our local small town church. When I was four years old I clearly remember looking at the famous "Behold I stand at the door and knock" painting and singing "Into my heart, into my heart, come into my heart Lord Jesus. Come in today, come in to stay, come into my heart Lord Jesus" and sincerely wanting Him to come in. It was not simple childlike repetition of a song, I really wanted Jesus "in my heart". For my entire life that has been a milestone, a reference point I have never forgotten, and I always, in evangelical terms, considered that as my moment of decision. It was reinforced at the age of 18 by a more adult experience of "receiving the Holy Spirit" at a Jesus People rally in 1970, which was also a life changing moment.

So my question is "What happened?" All this discussion about the mechanics and dynamics is very interesting, but in my experiential religious path this discussion is equivalent to arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin. These were not mere emotional experiences they were a life changing reality that marked my spiritual growth and desire to know Him.


pethuel - thank you. My apologies to all for allowing (helping?) this topic to become derailed and sidetracked by argument over how many angels fit on the head of a pin....hahahaha....good one!

kat and I will simply disagree as to the timing of the initiation of the Holy Spirit's ministry and which Spirit is the co-parent of the soul. There is a place for further exploration of that topic already posted for those who wish to carry it further -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5603

- and any who wish may start their own topics as they may wish to. I hope this is clear enough for all to understand!!

As with you pethuel, I know I was engaged in spirit work early in life and I have witnessed closely and intentionally the engagement of Spirit within my children and grandchildren after reading the UB to acutely assess this process of giving birth to soul and what happens prior and what happens subsequently. Some of the Sunday School songs that most gripped my young mind was "Jesus Loves Me" and "Jesus Loves The Little Children"....ALL the children of the world..."He's Got The Whole World In His Hands" (including "all God's children" and " the itty bitty babies")...and "This Little Light of Mine"

kat has her explanations for that pre-soul development and I have my own but the explanations for it are certainly secondary TO the reality that souls are not born in a vacuum or without due cause and the personalities of toddlers and young children are certainly engaged in managing spiritual connections and urges and conflicts for inner resolution. kat claims that the dual nature does not arrive until soul is born and I think it arrives with personality. Who really cares?? And the argument misses the point of this topic and has become a real distraction. So I will ask one more time that we return Evolutionary Religion as it pertains to planetary and social progress through the Mortal Epochs....for now. Please.

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

Whether you're rich or whether you're poor
It matters not to Him
He remembers where you're going
Not where you've been

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

If your heart is troubled
Don't worry, don't you fret
He knows that you have heard His call
And he won't forget

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

All around the world tonight
His children rest assured
That He will watch and He will keep us
Safe and secure

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world


Jesus loves me! This I know,
For the Bible tells me so;
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak but He is strong.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so.

Jesus loves me! He who died,
Heaven's gate to open wide;
He will wash away my sin,
Let His little child come in.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!

The Bible tells me so.

Jesus loves me! loves me still,
When I'm very weak and ill;
From His shining throne on high,
Comes to watch me where I lie.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!

Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so.

Jesus loves me! He will stay,
Close beside me all the way;
He's prepared a home for me,
And some day His face I'll see.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so




This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine
I'm gonna take this light around the world
And I'm gonna let it shine
I'm gonna take this light around the world
And I'm gonna let it shine
I'm gonna take this light around the world
And I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine
Well I won't let anyone (pff) it out, I'm gonna let it shine
I won't let anyone (pff) it out, I'm gonna let it shine
I won't let anyone (pff) it out, I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine
Every day, every day, I'm going to let my little light
Shine

He's got the whole world
In His hands
He's got the whole world
In His hands
He's got the whole world
In His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got the little bitty babies
In His hands
He's got the little bitty babies
In His hands
He's got the little bitty babies
In His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got the mommies and the daddies
In his hands
He's got the mommies and the daddies
In his hands
He's got the mommies and the daddies
In his hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got the brothers and the sisters
In His hands
He's got the brothers and the sisters
In His hands
He's got the brothers and the sisters
In His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got (child's name)
In His hands
He's got (child's name)

He's got (child's name)
He's got the whole world in His hands.


Me here: No matter the agents or agencies of spirit involved and engaged or when or how that might be....all personality is engaged somehow in the ministry of reality and spirit, bringing awareness and personal assurance and reward of belonging and being loved and having a friend within. It is too obvious to deny or dispute. Let us carry on now with the topic at hand as presented.

All who have personality receive direct paternal connection to God and the personality circuit and likewise all personality with mind (which includes all personalities) receive mind-ministry of the spirit. Personality connects us to our source and to one another and subjects us to the universal laws of love and the urge to love and the response to love and the reality of love. This is the primal spirit connection:

5:6.9 The bestowal of creature personality confers relative liberation from slavish response to antecedent causation, and the personalities of all such moral beings, evolutionary or otherwise, are centered in the personality of the Universal Father. They are ever drawn towards his Paradise presence by that kinship of being which constitutes the vast and universal family circle and fraternal circuit of the eternal God. There is a kinship of divine spontaneity in all personality.

5:6.10 The personality circuit of the universe of universes is centered in the person of the Universal Father, and the Paradise Father is personally conscious of, and in personal touch with, all personalities of all levels of self-conscious existence. And this personality consciousness of all creation exists independently of the mission of the Thought Adjusters.

5:6.11 As all gravity is circuited in the Isle of Paradise, as all mind is circuited in the Conjoint Actor and all spirit in the Eternal Son, so is all personality circuited in the personal presence of the Universal Father, and this circuit unerringly transmits the worship of all personalities to the Original and Eternal Personality.

5:6.12 Concerning those personalities who are not Adjuster indwelt: The attribute of choice-liberty is also bestowed by the Universal Father, and such persons are likewise embraced in the great circuit of divine love, the personality circuit of the Universal Father. God provides for the sovereign choice of all true personalities. No personal creature can be coerced into the eternal adventure; the portal of eternity opens only in response to the freewill choice of the freewill sons of the God of free will.

5:6.13 And this represents my efforts to present the relation of the living God to the children of time. And when all is said and done, I can do nothing more helpful than to reiterate that God is your universe Father, and that you are all his planetary children.

Thank you. :biggrin:


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:42 am +0000, edited 6 times in total.

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A repost to help us all re-focus on the topic at hand here:

fanofVan wrote:
Keyword search results for "evolutionary religion":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

5:5.5 Evolutionary religion is the mother of the science, art, and philosophy which elevated man to the level of receptivity to revealed religion, including the bestowal of Adjusters and the coming of the Spirit of Truth. The evolutionary picture of human existence begins and ends with religion, albeit very different qualities of religion, one evolutional and biological, the other revelational and periodical. And so, while religion is normal and natural to man, it is also optional. Man does not have to be religious against his will.

101:3.1 Religion is so vital that it persists in the absence of learning. It lives in spite of its contamination with erroneous cosmologies and false philosophies; it survives even the confusion of metaphysics. In and through all the historic vicissitudes of religion there ever persists that which is indispensable to human progress and survival: the ethical conscience and the moral consciousness.

101:3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father's gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit's gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.

103:0.1 ALL OF MAN'S truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man's first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man's viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths. As evolution advances on an inhabited world, the Thought Adjusters increasingly participate in the development of the higher types of human religious insight. The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.

103:0.2 The religious tendencies of the human races are innate; they are universally manifested and have an apparently natural origin; primitive religions are always evolutionary in their genesis. As natural religious experience continues to progress, periodic revelations of truth punctuate the otherwise slow-moving course of planetary evolution.

103:0.3 On Urantia, today, there are four kinds of religion:

1. Natural or evolutionary religion.
2. Supernatural or revelatory religion.
3. Practical or current religion, varying degrees of the admixture of natural and supernatural religions.
4. Philosophic religions, man-made or philosophically thought-out theologic doctrines and reason-created religions.

103:3.4 Remember that in the religion of all ages the experience which is paramount is the feeling regarding moral values and social meanings, not the thinking regarding theologic dogmas or philosophic theories. Religion evolves favorably as the element of magic is replaced by the concept of morals.

103:3.5 Man evolved through the superstitions of mana, magic, nature worship, spirit fear, and animal worship to the various ceremonials whereby the religious attitude of the individual became the group reactions of the clan. And then these ceremonies became focalized and crystallized into tribal beliefs, and eventually these fears and faiths became personalized into gods. But in all of this religious evolution the moral element was never wholly absent. The impulse of the God within man was always potent. And these powerful influences—one human and the other divine—insured the survival of religion throughout the vicissitudes of the ages and that notwithstanding it was so often threatened with extinction by a thousand subversive tendencies and hostile antagonisms.

103:5.1 The early evolutionary mind gives origin to a feeling of social duty and moral obligation derived chiefly from emotional fear. The more positive urge of social service and the idealism of altruism are derived from the direct impulse of the divine spirit indwelling the human mind.

103:5.2 This idea-ideal of doing good to others—the impulse to deny the ego something for the benefit of one's neighbor—is very circumscribed at first. Primitive man regards as neighbor only those very close to him, those who treat him neighborly; as religious civilization advances, one's neighbor expands in concept to embrace the clan, the tribe, the nation. And then Jesus enlarged the neighbor scope to embrace the whole of humanity, even that we should love our enemies. And there is something inside of every normal human being that tells him this teaching is moral—right. Even those who practice this ideal least, admit that it is right in theory.


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