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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
I thought I was rather polite.


Booting people off of a question and answer topic because you fail to see the significance of the questions or answers, is not polite. It's rude and offensive. And even if I give you slack and accept that you don't recognize this as impolite, you have no right to demand for discussion that only you sanction. As I said before, if you don't want discussion and only want a monolithic exegesis of your own personal thoughts, then may I suggest you utilize the essay subform which is designed for such things.

fanofVan wrote:
regarding the golden rule, what's its source, social origin, and effects on early social progress among primitive people?


Why don't you tell us?



Point taken.

Asking people to stay focused and on topic is hardly "booting" anyone off...a power I do not have. To deflect and hijacj a topic is rude. People are free to start their own topics. Your own belligerence is not excused by the situation here.

However, I do now see how to incorporate the text and questions posted by supermath into the topic and the cuurrent issues discussed...I can be slow to discern relevance and even slower of memory lately. I appreciate other's patience.

So, sore toes and barked shins aside and bruised egos to the side, let us return again to the topic. How did and does the family unit effect social transformation and support personal religious experience and evolutionary religion?

I wonder if the Golden Rule begins in the home as an extension of peace keeping, unit perpetuation and support, familial altruism, or similar motive and result? Humans have different social norms and behaviors for those in the family/clan/tribe and those who are not.

There are Native American languages where their name for themselves means people or the people and the word for all others means not-people. And the rules of encounter and engagement are far different.


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supermath wrote:
In the same vein, please also consider what "the great light", which makes "the least ... indeed greater than John", is precisely referred to in the following quote:
Quote:
136:0.1 (1509.1) [...] Though Jesus spoke of John as the greatest of the prophets of the old order, he also said that the least of those who saw the great light of the new way and entered thereby into the kingdom of heaven was indeed greater than John.

You definetly found the wedge between evolutionary and revelation. Good work.


"If you see the great light" is like the human individual's ability to perceive (in real, though irrational terms) Revelation. John the Baptist committed his work in a similar fashion: in humble offering for the good of all human individuals. You and all future children of Urantia will have to advance in the life of the Supreme Being, but will Revelation come to those who do not maintain progress in the life of the experiencial Deity? Revelation comes from the facts of human experience, if you are observing fairly, honestly. If you see yourself as the smallest being of the universe, in terms of sentience, in terms of power, but as long as you are embracing the Supreme Experience, everything around you bears the marks of former experiences, along with its true purpose.

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Back to the topic, below has been edited.

fanofVan wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
I thought I was rather polite.


Booting people off of a question and answer topic because you fail to see the significance of the questions or answers, is not polite. It's rude and offensive. And even if I give you slack and accept that you don't recognize this as impolite, you have no right to demand for discussion that only you sanction. As I said before, if you don't want discussion and only want a monolithic exegesis of your own personal thoughts, then may I suggest you utilize the essay subform which is designed for such things.

fanofVan wrote:
regarding the golden rule, what's its source, social origin, and effects on early social progress among primitive people?


Why don't you tell us?



Point taken.

Asking people to stay focused and on topic is hardly "booting" anyone off...a power I do not have. To deflect and hijacj a topic is rude. People are free to start their own topics. Your own belligerence is not excused by the situation here.

However, I do now see how to incorporate the text and questions posted by supermath into the topic and the cuurrent issues discussed...I can be slow to discern relevance and even slower of memory lately. I appreciate other's patience.

So, sore toes and barked shins aside and bruised egos to the side, let us return again to the topic. How did and does the family unit effect social transformation and support personal religious experience and evolutionary religion?

I wonder if the Golden Rule begins in the home as an extension of peace keeping, unit perpetuation and support, familial altruism, or similar motive and result? Humans have different social norms and behaviors for those in the family/clan/tribe and those who are not.

There are Native American languages where their name for themselves means people or the people and the word for all others means not-people. And the rules of encounter and engagement are far different.


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Regarding the source of the Golden Rule in the story of evolutionary association and the evolutionary religious experience of humans in groups, we are told:

68:1.2 Association early became the price of survival. The lone man was helpless unless he bore a tribal mark which testified that he belonged to a group which would certainly avenge any assault made upon him. Even in the days of Cain it was fatal to go abroad alone without some mark of group association. Civilization has become man's insurance against violent death, while the premiums are paid by submission to society's numerous law demands.

68:1.3 Primitive society was thus founded on the reciprocity of necessity and on the enhanced safety of association. And human society has evolved in agelong cycles as a result of this isolation fear and by means of reluctant co-operation.

68:1.4 Primitive human beings early learned that groups are vastly greater and stronger than the mere sum of their individual units. One hundred men united and working in unison can move a great stone; a score of well-trained guardians of the peace can restrain an angry mob. And so society was born, not of mere association of numbers, but rather as a result of the organization of intelligent co-operators. But co-operation is not a natural trait of man; he learns to co-operate first through fear and then later because he discovers it is most beneficial in meeting the difficulties of time and guarding against the supposed perils of eternity.

68:1.5 The peoples who thus early organized themselves into a primitive society became more successful in their attacks on nature as well as in defense against their fellows; they possessed greater survival possibilities; hence has civilization steadily progressed on Urantia, notwithstanding its many setbacks. And it is only because of the enhancement of survival value in association that man's many blunders have thus far failed to stop or destroy human civilization.

The basic GR of treating others as we wish to be treated is less altruistic and love based than we perhaps realize. It's really a social compromise that recognizes and realizes a personal gain. It is initially a pact that protects and feeds the individual better than isolation can ever accomplish. It harnesses and subdues natural proclivities toward belligerence and violence and it holds and binds together groups in cooperative ventures whereby all in the group gain advantages over all those not in the or at least a group.

Like the sex attraction binds male and female into the family unit to form the very foundational unit of society, the additional self sacrifice of the me-first and right-now animal urge for the personal and individual benefits and advantages of tribal and social cooperation all lead to the evolutionary realization, over time, of affection and altruism prompted by personal revelation and inner contact with the ministering Spirits to mortal mind and morontial mind (soul). These two inherent and natural and functional realities of human association are the formative foundation of civilization.

We can see the cooperation of some large mammals and other animals which learn to hunt and defend and give birth in packs and herds and utilize the natural effects of larger numbers acting together for mutual benefit. But humans learn that these benefits can be enhanced and extended, especially by specialization! Specialization delivers a whole new level of expertise and sharing and cooperative arts for the whole tribe to benefit from the applied skills of the few on behalf of the many. Only people and not animals learn progressively or acquire experiential wisdom that becomes integrated culturally and socially so that all of civilization benefits from the best of its discoveries and practices progressively over time.

68:2.4 The herd instinct in natural man is hardly sufficient to account for the development of such a social organization as now exists on Urantia. Though this innate gregarious propensity lies at the bottom of human society, much of man's sociability is an acquirement. Two great influences which contributed to the early association of human beings were food hunger and sex love; these instinctive urges man shares with the animal world. Two other emotions which drove human beings together and held them together were vanity and fear, more particularly ghost fear.

68:2.6 Hunger, vanity, and ghost fear were continuous in their social pressure, but sex gratification was transient and spasmodic. The sex urge alone did not impel primitive men and women to assume the heavy burdens of home maintenance. The early home was founded upon the sex restlessness of the male when deprived of frequent gratification and upon that devoted mother love of the human female, which in measure she shares with the females of all the higher animals. The presence of a helpless baby determined the early differentiation of male and female activities; the woman had to maintain a settled residence where she could cultivate the soil. And from earliest times, where woman was has always been regarded as the home.

68:2.10 If vanity be enlarged to cover pride, ambition, and honor, then we may discern not only how these propensities contribute to the formation of human associations, but how they also hold men together, since such emotions are futile without an audience to parade before. Soon vanity associated with itself other emotions and impulses which required a social arena wherein they might exhibit and gratify themselves. This group of emotions gave origin to the early beginnings of all art, ceremonial, and all forms of sportive games and contests.


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14:5.10 Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony—these traits inherent in evolving human nature—were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 Curiosity—the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration—is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.

26:5.3 (291.3) That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: “In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible.”

Me here: So the first two quotes describe our inherent human nature. One reader here endlessly bemoans and belittles the human "condition" as being "merely human". Yet we are the very pinnacle of universe evolutionary achievement (or perhaps it is the Supreme that is that?). This very human nature is spiritized and by connection to the Spirit (the branch to the vine), then do we lose all animal fear and immature anxieties and learn to feast and fatten on that which primitive people loathe.

Human potential is realized only by religious experience. All progress of humanity exists only by the effects of religious experience individually and collectively. It is only by our religious experience that the self may learn the effects of love and enter into the circuit of love to discover the inherent benefits of loving service to others. We cannot create the fruits of the Spirit...happiness, joy, patience, peace, tranquility....but we may enjoy them by our encircuitment and connection to reality and to the Spirit...for the fruits OF the Spirit are indeed OF the Spirit and not of us or by us. Only to the degree of our alignment and attachment and faithful response to the Spirit do these fruits grow in our life and become expressed by our life and in our choices and expressions of living.

Remember there is no human life or humanity at all without evolutionary religion. Humanity begins when religious experience begins. Not before and not after....but at the very moment of evolutionary religious experience humanity is defined and begun and the animal instinct/nature and mind has now been joined by Spirit and personality and free will to form the dual nature of humanity. Animals do not have personality or the free will to choose anything beyond its animal nature. Now we may quibble over when the actual dual nature begins vs. the potential for the duality of natures occurs but whether potential or actual, the connections are made when personality is bestowed and that defines our humanity and separates us from the animals.

So it must be that it is personality itself which brings/delivers the innate human attributes described above in Paper 14? Or is that the work of the higher adjutants and a function of mind ministry? It must come to us by either or by both/combination of those circuits - higher material mind and/or personality endowment. For these traits are obvious and evident in human children and in superstitious and primitive people whose fears cannot prevent them from curiosity, adventure seeking, the need to know and understand...these urges and impulses which drive humans and humanity forward headlong into progressive experiential wisdom education do not await religious experience or education or knowledge or understanding or wisdom. Nope. It's a headlong drive and rush forward into the breach of the unknown and mysterious and dangerous (perceived and/or real).



Consider that for awhile.

This is the tadpole condition and tadpole WAY. It is this human nature combined with the faith assurance and truth assurance of our connection to Spirit that eliminates anxiety and worries and the fear of disappointment, uncertainty, defeat, failure, temporal suffering, loss, and even catastrophe. The tadpole presumes safety and destiny by embracing reality and joyfully engaging in its awesomeness. This is the life of children who feel absolute love and safety and protection and assuredness in their legacy and in those who love them and care for them!!

This is not something that requires us to be somber and dour and serious and doubtful and guilty and remorseful and repentant....that is not how the children of sound parentage behave, or the children of kings, or the children of Deity. We should be grateful and humble and sincere and reflect the attributes of our wise and loving parents/creators and our trillions of trillions of fellow siblings. But too many tadpoles are far too serious and far too focused on the shadows cast by the bad choices of others such as being too fearful, anxious, guilty, serious, humorless, judgmental, etc.

I pity those who live in doubt and fear. We are not designed, engineered, or built for such a sad life. One must choose such a life and cling to such a life despite human nature and the Circuits of Light and Life and the Spirit ministries within - all of whom and which are given us to enjoy this brief season as tadpoles in this pond and brief season of time for such joys!!!

Such happiness and such a life is open to all who embrace religious experience and identify with the Spirit within. And those who believe others are not and do not live such lives and believe 7 billion others live in darkness are, sadly, merely projecting their own limitations and darkness and doubts and confusions and anxieties and guilt upon others. If our life sucks, it is silly to say that everybody else's does too so it can't be helped. Hahahhahaha….what a surrender!! What a fool's tale. You judge. But you do not judge well!!

All is not right in our world but there is so much light and truth and faith and hope and trust and belief in God, heaven, and angels and love and kindness and patience and meekness and goodness and joy and happiness all around. The pursuit, experience, and expressions of truth, beauty, and goodness surround you...and all of us. If you cannot see that, the real problem is your own vision and faith!! Heal thyself! Do not accuse the world and tear down others to your own lowly level. Especially not here!

Here we are God's beloved children living in a friendly universe at the beginning of an eternal adventure filled with joy and discovery and sharing and caring!

195:5.12 (2076.3) As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil.

195:5.13 (2076.4) When there is so much good truth to publish and proclaim, why should men dwell so much upon the evil in the world just because it appears to be a fact? The beauties of the spiritual values of truth are more pleasurable and uplifting than is the phenomenon of evil.

196:0.3 (2087.3) Jesus did not cling to faith in God as would a struggling soul at war with the universe and at death grips with a hostile and sinful world; he did not resort to faith merely as a consolation in the midst of difficulties or as a comfort in threatened despair; faith was not just an illusory compensation for the unpleasant realities and the sorrows of living. In the very face of all the natural difficulties and the temporal contradictions of mortal existence, he experienced the tranquillity of supreme and unquestioned trust in God and felt the tremendous thrill of living, by faith, in the very presence of the heavenly Father. And this triumphant faith was a living experience of actual spirit attainment. Jesus’ great contribution to the values of human experience was not that he revealed so many new ideas about the Father in heaven, but rather that he so magnificently and humanly demonstrated a new and higher type of living faith in God. Never on all the worlds of this universe, in the life of any one mortal, did God ever become such a living reality as in the human experience of Jesus of Nazareth.

196:0.4 (2087.4) In the Master’s life on Urantia, this and all other worlds of the local creation discover a new and higher type of religion, religion based on personal spiritual relations with the Universal Father and wholly validated by the supreme authority of genuine personal experience. This living faith of Jesus was more than an intellectual reflection, and it was not a mystic meditation.

196:0.11 (2089.1) In the earthly life of Jesus, religion was a living experience, a direct and personal movement from spiritual reverence to practical righteousness. The faith of Jesus bore the transcendent fruits of the divine spirit. His faith was not immature and credulous like that of a child, but in many ways it did resemble the unsuspecting trust of the child mind. Jesus trusted God much as the child trusts a parent. He had a profound confidence in the universe—just such a trust as the child has in its parental environment. Jesus’ wholehearted faith in the fundamental goodness of the universe very much resembled the child’s trust in the security of its earthly surroundings. He depended on the heavenly Father as a child leans upon its earthly parent, and his fervent faith never for one moment doubted the certainty of the heavenly Father’s overcare. He was not disturbed seriously by fears, doubts, and skepticism. Unbelief did not inhibit the free and original expression of his life. He combined the stalwart and intelligent courage of a full-grown man with the sincere and trusting optimism of a believing child. His faith grew to such heights of trust that it was devoid of fear.

196:0.12 (2089.2) The faith of Jesus attained the purity of a child’s trust. His faith was so absolute and undoubting that it responded to the charm of the contact of fellow beings and to the wonders of the universe. His sense of dependence on the divine was so complete and so confident that it yielded the joy and the assurance of absolute personal security. There was no hesitating pretense in his religious experience. In this giant intellect of the full-grown man the faith of the child reigned supreme in all matters relating to the religious consciousness. It is not strange that he once said, “Except you become as a little child, you shall not enter the kingdom.” Notwithstanding that Jesus’ faith was childlike, it was in no sense childish.

:wink: :biggrin: 8)


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Good points!

May I suggest you say "Some folks talk about the human "condition" as being "merely human" " instead of "One reader here endlessly bemoans and belittles the human "condition" as being "merely human"?


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pethuel wrote:
May I suggest you say "Some folks talk about the human "condition" as being "merely human" " instead of "One reader here endlessly bemoans and belittles the human "condition" as being "merely human"?


Thank you for that.


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pethuel wrote:
Good points!

May I suggest you say "Some folks talk about the human "condition" as being "merely human" " instead of "One reader here endlessly bemoans and belittles the human "condition" as being "merely human"?


katroofjebus wrote:
pethuel wrote:
May I suggest you say "Some folks talk about the human "condition" as being "merely human" " instead of "One reader here endlessly bemoans and belittles the human "condition" as being "merely human"?


Thank you for that.




So.....this is a comment on and correction of my grammar? Hmmmm..... Thanks....I guess?

However, it wasn't "some folks" but it was one poster in particular, and he, not they, was bemoaning and belittling "the human condition as being merely human."

The claim was that being human is inadequate and inferior even though it is such a gift and blessing and extraordinary achievement by the endless efforts of so many to be a human. This person was quite proud to be much more than "merely human" and critical of those of us who find joy and happiness in our humanity.

Hopefully my butchered English or grammar challenges will not prevent being understood....here's hoping!!

8) Thanks again.


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fanofVan wrote:
Like the sex attraction binds male and female into the family unit to form the very foundational unit of society, the additional self sacrifice of the me-first and right-now animal urge for the personal and individual benefits and advantages of tribal and social cooperation all lead to the evolutionary realization, over time, of affection and altruism prompted by personal revelation and inner contact with the ministering Spirits to mortal mind and morontial mind (soul). These two inherent and natural and functional realities of human association are the formative foundation of civilization.

We can see the cooperation of some large mammals and other animals which learn to hunt and defend and give birth in packs and herds and utilize the natural effects of larger numbers acting together for mutual benefit. But humans learn that these benefits can be enhanced and extended, especially by specialization! Specialization delivers a whole new level of expertise and sharing and cooperative arts for the whole tribe to benefit from the applied skills of the few on behalf of the many. Only people and not animals learn progressively or acquire experiential wisdom that becomes integrated culturally and socially so that all of civilization benefits from the best of its discoveries and practices progressively over time.


What outrageous nonsense, once again from you sir Bradley. The male and female are "BOUND". Nonsense, generalities! How would you expect for a group of animals to constitute that which you would actually consider as a "family". The binding is not real, it is a ceremonial signifier of the original "loyalty" of one man and one woman. Besides their own personal commitment, how can you say that anyone in society "recognises" such a "family." Again, unbelievable nonsense to think that a herd and a family are just the same thing. I believe that society goes to great lengths to "impress" this "obligation" upon me, but no things work out better if you allow God to sort these possibilities through universal circumstance, and to commit to the best prospects of work and engagements, as may be amenable to your actual wherewith to love & work.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Like the sex attraction binds male and female into the family unit to form the very foundational unit of society, the additional self sacrifice of the me-first and right-now animal urge for the personal and individual benefits and advantages of tribal and social cooperation all lead to the evolutionary realization, over time, of affection and altruism prompted by personal revelation and inner contact with the ministering Spirits to mortal mind and morontial mind (soul). These two inherent and natural and functional realities of human association are the formative foundation of civilization.

We can see the cooperation of some large mammals and other animals which learn to hunt and defend and give birth in packs and herds and utilize the natural effects of larger numbers acting together for mutual benefit. But humans learn that these benefits can be enhanced and extended, especially by specialization! Specialization delivers a whole new level of expertise and sharing and cooperative arts for the whole tribe to benefit from the applied skills of the few on behalf of the many. Only people and not animals learn progressively or acquire experiential wisdom that becomes integrated culturally and socially so that all of civilization benefits from the best of its discoveries and practices progressively over time.


What outrageous nonsense, once again from you sir Bradley. The male and female are "BOUND". Nonsense, generalities! How would you expect for a group of animals to constitute that which you would actually consider as a "family". The binding is not real, it is a ceremonial signifier of the original "loyalty" of one man and one woman. Besides their own personal commitment, how can you say that anyone in society "recognises" such a "family." Again, unbelievable nonsense to think that a herd and a family are just the same thing. I believe that society goes to great lengths to "impress" this "obligation" upon me, but no things work out better if you allow God to sort these possibilities through universal circumstance, and to commit to the best prospects of work and engagements, as may be amenable to your actual wherewith to love & work.


Please read the material. :roll:

No one said herd instinct.and family is the same...but herd and tribal/clans have similar instincts I think. The family unit certainly has sex attraction as a binding agent.

Neither modern or primitive families or society are the ideals toward which we strive and realize in Light and Life. Evolutionary progress sees many stages of inferior results as wisdom emerges from religious experience in the individual and the family and society. Especially in the beginning.

68:2.6 (765.3) Hunger, vanity, and ghost fear were continuous in their social pressure, but sex gratification was transient and spasmodic. The sex urge alone did not impel primitive men and women to assume the heavy burdens of home maintenance. The early home was founded upon the sex restlessness of the male when deprived of frequent gratification and upon that devoted mother love of the human female, which in measure she shares with the females of all the higher animals. The presence of a helpless baby determined the early differentiation of male and female activities; the woman had to maintain a settled residence where she could cultivate the soil. And from earliest times, where woman was has always been regarded as the home.

68:2.7 (765.4) Woman thus early became indispensable to the evolving social scheme, not so much because of the fleeting sex passion as in consequence of food requirement; she was an essential partner in self-maintenance. She was a food provider, a beast of burden, and a companion who would stand great abuse without violent resentment, and in addition to all of these desirable traits, she was an ever-present means of sex gratification.


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fanofVan wrote:
No one said herd instinct.and family is the same...but herd and tribal/clans have similar instincts I think. The family unit certainly has sex attraction as a binding agent.


But this is certainly true according to traditions.

I don't think it is fair to say that "sex" in the modern is the same as the Urantia Book "sex that is ordained in monogamous marriage", hello. If you are have sex with a female, be ready to marry her, but this belies the truth in many cultures, that adolescent adults do not understand that to have a family is or would be the actual goal of sex. Or the truth that not every woman want to have, to bear a child.

I know that families have great prayers and hopes for their daughters and sons to find happy life with someone, like their parents had. Of course, this is a great consideration in the harmony and destiny of a person's life and their future. But how can you say sex is the binding ingredient of family, but only in the sense, of bringing new souls into this Urantian Experiences of human individuals.

Well maybe I just do not understand sex the same ways as you, but hit the culture hard if people could not find a better reason than that to stay together.

Are you saying that the son is bound to the family, or the father of that child also bound? Every earthly parent has an obligation to portray the ways of the universal father to the children he is bound to rear with his partner?

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The sex urge is a trick played on mankind. Reference:

(914.3) 82:1.7 The mating instinct is one of the dominant physical driving forces of human beings; it is the one emotion which, in the guise of individual gratification, effectively tricks selfish man into putting race welfare and perpetuation high above individual ease and personal freedom from responsibility.


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katroofjebus wrote:
The sex urge is a trick played on mankind. Reference:

(914.3) 82:1.7 The mating instinct is one of the dominant physical driving forces of human beings; it is the one emotion which, in the guise of individual gratification, effectively tricks selfish man into putting race welfare and perpetuation high above individual ease and personal freedom from responsibility.


Thanks Kat!

82:1.1 (913.4) Notwithstanding the personality gulf between men and women, the sex urge is sufficient to insure their coming together for the reproduction of the species. This instinct operated effectively long before humans experienced much of what was later called love, devotion, and marital loyalty. Mating is an innate propensity, and marriage is its evolutionary social repercussion.


SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
No one said herd instinct.and family is the same...but herd and tribal/clans have similar instincts I think. The family unit certainly has sex attraction as a binding agent.


But this is certainly true according to traditions.

I don't think it is fair to say that "sex" in the modern is the same as the Urantia Book "sex that is ordained in monogamous marriage", hello. If you are have sex with a female, be ready to marry her, but this belies the truth in many cultures, that adolescent adults do not understand that to have a family is or would be the actual goal of sex. Or the truth that not every woman want to have, to bear a child.

I know that families have great prayers and hopes for their daughters and sons to find happy life with someone, like their parents had. Of course, this is a great consideration in the harmony and destiny of a person's life and their future. But how can you say sex is the binding ingredient of family, but only in the sense, of bringing new souls into this Urantian Experiences of human individuals.

Well maybe I just do not understand sex the same ways as you, but hit the culture hard if people could not find a better reason than that to stay together.

Are you saying that the son is bound to the family, or the father of that child also bound? Every earthly parent has an obligation to portray the ways of the universal father to the children he is bound to rear with his partner?


Stephen...evidently you must be reminded (by someone) that we are not here to study or share your opinions, beliefs, and personal hang ups about sex - or anything else. We gather here to study the Revelation....please try and do that. Post text in support of your declarations and objections and scoldings - or keep those to yourself! Not interested....irrelevant! Your personal point of view is so obviously biased and tainted by your local, recent, personal views as to be totally useless to anyone else.

The state of marriage on the world today runs the historical spectral gamut from A-Z in form and function from prearranged, to child brides, to incestual, brothers and sisters and cousins, to power brokered, to shot-gun due to teen pregnancy, to drunken Vegas style with strangers, etc. You seem to know nothing at all about that of which you are so opinionated. Sigh......so tiring....

Consider reading Paper 82 The Evolution of Marriage and Paper 83 The Marriage Institution for true insight into its importance and the factual history of its development.

82:0.1 (913.1) MARRIAGE—mating—grows out of bisexuality. Marriage is man’s reactional adjustment to such bisexuality, while the family life is the sum total resulting from all such evolutionary and adaptative adjustments. Marriage is enduring; it is not inherent in biologic evolution, but it is the basis of all social evolution and is therefore certain of continued existence in some form. Marriage has given mankind the home, and the home is the crowning glory of the whole long and arduous evolutionary struggle.

82:0.2 (913.2) While religious, social, and educational institutions are all essential to the survival of cultural civilization, the family is the master civilizer. A child learns most of the essentials of life from his family and the neighbors.

83:1.1 (922.4) Marriage is society’s mechanism designed to regulate and control those many human relations which arise out of the physical fact of bisexuality. As such an institution, marriage functions in two directions:

83:1.2 (922.5) 1. In the regulation of personal sex relations.

83:1.3 (922.6) 2. In the regulation of descent, inheritance, succession, and social order, this being its older and original function.

83:1.4 (922.7) The family, which grows out of marriage, is itself a stabilizer of the marriage institution together with the property mores. Other potent factors in marriage stability are pride, vanity, chivalry, duty, and religious convictions. But while marriages may be approved or disapproved on high, they are hardly made in heaven. The human family is a distinctly human institution, an evolutionary development. Marriage is an institution of society, not a department of the church. True, religion should mightily influence it but should not undertake exclusively to control and regulate it.

82:0.3 (913.3) The humans of olden times did not possess a very rich social civilization, but such as they had they faithfully and effectively passed on to the next generation. And you should recognize that most of these civilizations of the past continued to evolve with a bare minimum of other institutional influences because the home was effectively functioning. Today the human races possess a rich social and cultural heritage, and it should be wisely and effectively passed on to succeeding generations. The family as an educational institution must be maintained.

When you say "sex in the Urantia Book", then what do you mean? Please post relevant material. As for marriage....it is not "ordained" nor holy or sanctified...it is a contract, a civil contract, of loyalty and shared responsibility and it is defined by the mores of its day and culture. Modern sex and marriage is still far from the ideals of gender equality and equal standing and rights and voice presented by the natural order or the universe and the teachings of Jesus. The definition of "family" includes a variety of social varietals, including adoptees, captives, extended blood, marriage bound and in-laws...my family is a tribe, actually several tribes, which in farm days were one tribe all nearby. Today's nuclear family, reduced from such extended families is a reversion I think, a dark day for families and a true challenge and great social risk...a leading cause of social decay.

The UB tells us how important grandparents were/are to up-step civilization. Multi-generational families are stronger and develop more traditions and social continuity. One of the advantages most worlds receive from the Adamic infusion is such longevity...multiple generations. I grew up with 4 generations but what about 40 instead? Wow. Now that's a family! The UB teaches us that the best government for the most socialized and civilized of peoples is the least government...this is because it is the family that binds civilization and perpetuates culture and creates order through traditions which serve the greater good.

The UB teaches us that the family is the great socializer and civilizer of humanity. It is the basic building block and foundation that underlies progress. The sex urge is the inherent and innate trigger and spark and origin of the family unit. It is obvious, even today.


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:42 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
Stephen...evidently you must be reminded (by someone) that we are not here to study or share your opinions, beliefs, and personal hang ups about sex - or anything else. We gather here to study the Revelation....please try and do that. Post text in support of your declarations and objections and scoldings - or keep those to yourself! Not interested....irrelevant! Your personal point of view is so obviously biased and tainted by your local, recent, personal views as to be totally useless to anyone else. . . . You seem to know nothing at all about that of which you are so opinionated. Sigh......so tiring....


Personally, I am so very, very tired of having to read this kind of overbearing rebuke and shaming of another poster. I have lost all hope of anyone putting an end to this constant abuse. Bradly, your points can be made just as easily without browbeating and crushing criticism of others. It's so negative, unnecessary and unproductive. All I can do is keep asking for it to stop. Please. I'm begging you. Please stop. Please.


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Sex as drawn from the unconscious demands of the animal tabernacle, to produce offspring, in tUB the context of sex come from Adamic Mandate "be fruitful and multiply". But all the social customs surrounding "marriage", if not represented in the child of destiny born between one woman and one man, is like this myth "two souls becoming one", hyped up promulgations from roleplayers in society, who believe in the value of family, but still seeking to compell young adults into the shackles of financial commitment.

A father is different than a mother mythologically speaking must go out into the world in order to glean enough to provide for the offspring that the mother brought into this planet. If you say, exactly what you obligation to partner, from the perspective of society' recommendations, that is not a personal friendship between one man and one woman, it is a set of rules and people who marry in the modern, not understanding "why" one must follow such rules.

But then hey, if you want to have a family, you meet someone who you actually want to cooperate with, develop trust on a personal level, that will strengthen your own commitment to things like fulfilling your own universe destiny. You think well the purpose of marriage is the family, but we children of Urantia already have families, what about the way a woman can strengthen your own commitments to family by showing you how she need must please her own siblings and honour her own parents.

It is not all sex, the modern amazonian "Susan Sontag" culture bases the wherewith of childrearing on financial security and basic sociological values, rather than religious ones. You say this "the natural bisexuality of man", and even though this quotation is not well-understood, I see couples, both female! And the woman who wants to bear that child will ask her spouse's brother for semen to do that. That is incredible formal arrangements with bewildering legal implications. What a modern world! But the reality is family not less valid of institution: people just need more authentic and personal truth reasons to stay committed. Incredible treatises on social liberties within household, that in my experience are valid because of the commitment and sincerity (the impression I have from a few of them) of the parents to raise adopted childs.

Yes, this very complicated now that regular straight people confused about wanting child, with this overpopulation issue, and lesbians committed and legally deft enough to have child to rear in household. But again, this model of "shrinking family size" means that small families need to "go out of their way" to help single child to understand family, in terms of neighbourhood, class, and what that actually means if child grow up in universal family.

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