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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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If it is considered nonteachable, that preAdjutant spiritforce, can it still be considered "nourishing", "developmental", "preIntuitive", understanding that such spiritforce may have an individuated connection with every living organism?

As Urantians, we have spent time isolated first because of our experimental status (not having supplementary adjutants besides that of the seven Adjutants of the Divine Minister), and then because of the status of quarantine due to planetary rebellion. Also, the will creatures appear before the coloured races - so you know that we grew up out of basically only this preAdjutant spiritforce, and the ministry of the seven lamps. Our ancestors therefore had a primal Advantage amongst all other worlds in the universe, in that perhaps the very will of the primitive human individual was borne out of the most basic relationship in any living creature. To me, that mean that indellible relationship between the First Source and Center with every individuated sentient being (even every living creature), is indellible from another individuality perspective.

How can we call the seven adjutant spirits "ours", when we are taught the perspective of allowing His Life (that of the Divine Minister of Salvington), to permeate every aspect of our own as individuals. But we should not loose touch with the reality, or the root, that in every adaptation, must come out of the preexistance of life. That root is the underlaying unity of all life through said "spirit mind" (or what I like to call spiritforce), which rules or "overlays" even the physical vectors and forces of the cosmos.
Matthew (13:31–32), Mark (4:30–32), and Luke (13:18–19)
140:8.27 The carpenter's son ... taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed.
151:4.2 Now a mustard seed is the least of seeds, but when it is full grown, it becomes the greatest of all herbs and is like a tree so that the birds of heaven are able to come and rest in the branches thereof.
170:2.16 They (the Apostles) looked upon the coming of the kingdom in the hearts of men as a gradual development, like the leaven in the dough (reflecting the colonial-spore modality of life) or like the growing of the mustard seed (reflecting organismal-seed modality of sentient life). They believed that the coming of the kingdom in the racial or world sense would be both sudden and spectacular. Jesus never tired of telling them that the kingdom of heaven was their personal experience of realizing the higher qualities of spiritual living; that these realities of the spirit experience are progressively translated to new and higher levels of divine certainty and eternal grandeur.
My interpretation of this parable, is that the mustard seed is not only the "kingdom of heaven growing in one's field", the least of all Adjutants, is that also "the faith of the human individual might grow like a mustard seed, through cooperation with the fatherly guidance eschewed by the Father Fragment."

But now there is so many supplementary Adjutant spirits downloading to Urantian minds, from the archangel circuit [108:4.4] and the Spirit of Truth [193:5.2], that it can be easy to "overlook the foundation" of how spirit actually dominates the physical existences. If we are looking for a relationship as to how an "actual fragment" of the First Source and Center could be guiding us through the will of the father, who is the First Source and Center, then truly it is awesome to see the means by which he guides not only every sentient being, but nourishes every life in the universe.

It is that in knowing how isolated our evolutionary status has been, that we must rely more upon the "premind life", which is so akin to physical control and the actuality of will in creatures, that the soul is "the joint offspring of an adjutant mind dominated by a human will that craves to know God" (111:2.10), that such craving might be part of the most intrinsic aspect of not only human lives, but every material living being on Urantia, even the grand universe.

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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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Well because we didnot have supplementary Adjutant mind spirits involved in the planned course of our evolutionary ascent. We evolutionary human individuals have this situation and our advantage is having far less conscious layers "superimposed" upon our individual conscious minds. Some worlds would think that having more adjutants is better, but such disadvantage as our own prepares Adjuster-fused survivors to work better with the intrinsic fabric of "premind life" after we have become finaliters. Our lives are actually simpler than you know humans from very interesting harmonious planets whereon righteousness is ordinary conduct.

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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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Maryjo???????????

Would you please delete Stephen's last 3 posts here? There are too many falsehoods to even count.

Otherwise someone's going to have to waste a lot of time listing all the contradictions and pure inventions posted which have nothing to do with the UB.

Or perhaps you should take the time to correct Stephen's falsifications and topic hijacking.

There are so many terms and concepts declared above which are direct contradictions requiring challenge and correction (which will happen soon)....or total deletion.

Have you considered requiring Stephen to submit his posts to you for preview prior to public posting? Still and yet again the above posts demonstrate his habit of misrepresentating and misstating and actually falsifying the UB. Such posts cannot stand uncontested.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
...

But now there is so many supplementary Adjutant spirits downloading to Urantian minds, ...


Wait. Downloads are available?! That makes life so much easier! I want to download all my spiritual growth right now!















Not.


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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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fanofVan wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
I agree with the Urantia Book's presentation of evolution, and thankful for the Life Carriers' work.


Hahahaha...no you don't! Then why all the many contradictions to the UB you proclaim here for all to read? What of your "fictitious" claim for example? What of the necessity and desirability of species extinction? What of your "irretrievable loss" declarations? What of your dodo farm? And all your anger?

You cannot believe your own words and beliefs listed by you here AND "agree with the Urantia Book's presentation of evolution". Cannot be done. Mutually exclusive. Pick a lane Stephen.

You cannot believe or "agree with" that which you thoroughly and persistently disagree with, criticize, call fictional, and contradict. That dog won't hunt dude.

So now you have put yourself in the position where you must make some important acknowledgments and corrections to your prior claims and declarations about evolution or nothing you say here may be considered reliable or believable IMO. So which way is it, as it cannot be both?!!!

:? =; :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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Agon D. Onter wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
...

But now there is so many supplementary Adjutant spirits downloading to Urantian minds, ...


Wait. Downloads are available?! That makes life so much easier! I want to download all my spiritual growth right now!















Not.


Yes and I want some of those adjutant supplements and spirit vitamins...Flintstones and Dinosaurs please!

You know what they say....the more adjutants, the better!!

:lol: :wink: :roll:


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:15 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But you are overlooking how the preAdjutant mind spirit is spread throughout the entire grand universe, and there is something nonteachable about the First Source and Center. The nonteachable mind is the platform from which life advances experiencially.


I agree the nonteachable mind is the platform by which evolution begins its course, but the nonteachable mind, by definition, is non-experiencing. Also, this form of mind is only present in the evolving universes of time and space. The First Source and Center has the benefit of an entirely different level of mind because the First Source and Center does not evolve.

And I also agree that pre-adjutant mind ministry is present throughout the seven super universes of time and space, but I believe it may be specific to the type of life form present on each planet. I also believe the Physical Controllers do exist throughout the entire Grand Universe, but their ministry to evolving life is a local universe agency.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
And with Adjuster Fusion would come the total understanding of the mechanical nature of the universe, through union in the will of God the father, and the fully unconscious desire to fulfill such obligation, which Jesus reveals is part of religious growth.


The thing about fusion is that it doesn't automatically reveal all facts about reality to the mortal mind. Total understanding of the universe is something mortals never actually achieve. God is the first truth and the last fact, and since there is no end to time, there is no last fact to learn and understand.

But I think I understand your underlying premise which has to do with the unity of mind and that all levels of mind ministry, all the way up to the pure mind of the Infinite Spirit, work harmoniously together for one single goal, which incidentally pretty much sums up the meaning of mind gravity.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
It is the most primal adjutant spirit. I can understand that theoretically. If we can understand that a part of the preAdjutant mind spirit within each of us is shared with all living creatures, then maybe the approach to garnering the ultimate harmony of the seven adjutant mind spirits would not seem so difficult.


Yes, I think you get what I've been trying to say, the single idea that mindedness is a universal phenomenon which connects the material level of reality with the spiritual, and that same mind is everywhere and intimately involved with everything. Even nonliving matter is somewhat responsive to mind. Most religious people focus on spirit at the neglect of mind. Some even try to silence the mind, which when you think about it, cannot be done. Better to connect with mind's "everywhereness" and learn to appreciate its beauty.


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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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katroofjebus wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
But you are overlooking how the preAdjutant mind spirit is spread throughout the entire grand universe, and there is something nonteachable about the First Source and Center. The nonteachable mind is the platform from which life advances experiencially.


I agree the nonteachable mind is the platform by which evolution begins its course, but the nonteachable mind, by definition, is non-experiencing. Also, this form of mind is only present in the evolving universes of time and space. The First Source and Center has the benefit of an entirely different level of mind because the First Source and Center does not evolve.

And I also agree that pre-adjutant mind ministry is present throughout the seven super universes of time and space, but I believe it may be specific to the type of life form present on each planet. I also believe the Physical Controllers do exist throughout the entire Grand Universe, but their ministry to evolving life is a local universe agency.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
And with Adjuster Fusion would come the total understanding of the mechanical nature of the universe, through union in the will of God the father, and the fully unconscious desire to fulfill such obligation, which Jesus reveals is part of religious growth.


The thing about fusion is that it doesn't automatically reveal all facts about reality to the mortal mind. Total understanding of the universe is something mortals never actually achieve. God is the first truth and the last fact, and since there is no end to time, there is no last fact to learn and understand.

But I think I understand your underlying premise which has to do with the unity of mind and that all levels of mind ministry, all the way up to the pure mind of the Infinite Spirit, work harmoniously together for one single goal, which incidentally pretty much sums up the meaning of mind gravity.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
It is the most primal adjutant spirit. I can understand that theoretically. If we can understand that a part of the preAdjutant mind spirit within each of us is shared with all living creatures, then maybe the approach to garnering the ultimate harmony of the seven adjutant mind spirits would not seem so difficult.


Yes, I think you get what I've been trying to say, the single idea that mindedness is a universal phenomenon which connects the material level of reality with the spiritual, and that same mind is everywhere and intimately involved with everything. Even nonliving matter is somewhat responsive to mind. Most religious people focus on spirit at the neglect of mind. Some even try to silence the mind, which when you think about it, cannot be done. Better to connect with mind's "everywhereness" and learn to appreciate its beauty.


Baloney. Nonteachable mind is NOT the platform from which life advances experientially. Tell that to your TA or Michael or the seraphim or all the celestial beings who share experiential wisdom and mind ministry...including The Supreme.

The universe does NOT have a mechanical nature. And fusion does NOT deliver total understanding of anything. Shall we go on here?!

:roll:


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:16 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Evolution
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
If it is considered nonteachable, that preAdjutant spiritforce, can it still be considered "nourishing", "developmental", "preIntuitive", understanding that such spiritforce may have an individuated connection with every living organism?


I think the pre-adjutant mind ministry is primarily directional in nature. It activates life animation in a specific way to promote evolution. And yes, I think it might be considered "pre-intuitive", meaning antecedent to the first adjutant. At this "pre-intuitive" level the organism is able to react to its environment in a mechanical way, but is directed by the physical controllers in a pattern conducive to further genetic expression. Even the primordial soup organisms have all the genetic material necessary for all potential evolution.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
As Urantians, we have spent time isolated first because of our experimental status (not having supplementary adjutants besides that of the seven Adjutants of the Divine Minister), and then because of the status of quarantine due to planetary rebellion.


Yes we have been quarantined and isolated, but we have never been deprived of adjutant mind ministry at any level. There are no supplements to the seven adjutants at the material level. The supplement to the adjutants are part of the morontia level of soul formation, specifically the Holy Spirit. But it is true that the first adjutant had a lot of difficulty making contact with pre-adjutant mind life. That does not appear to have been a deterrent however because one of the purposes of life experimentation on this planet was to bring about the early appearance of human beings, and I do think the Life Carriers accomplished their goal.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
Also, the will creatures appear before the coloured races - so you know that we grew up out of basically only this preAdjutant spiritforce, and the ministry of the seven lamps. Our ancestors therefore had a primal Advantage amongst all other worlds in the universe, in that perhaps the very will of the primitive human individual was borne out of the most basic relationship in any living creature.


The will creatures appearing before the colored races is something unique to our planet, but human will could not appear at all without all seven adjutants functioning in the mind. So I can't agree that human will creatures developed with only pre-adjutant, mechanical, nonteachable mind. If you think about it, that could never happen. Humans have teachable minds which are ministered to by the "seven lamps". The advantage our ancestors had was and is described by the word "agondonter". This phenomenon of "agondontership" would not be possible without all seven adjutants and the birth of the soul.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
To me, that mean that indellible relationship between the First Source and Center with every individuated sentient being (even every living creature), is indellible from another individuality perspective.


Don't forget that sentience is the agency of the Third Source and Center. What links us to the First Source and Center is the Universal Father's personality circuit. Of course we would not glean the benefits of personality without the Third Source and Center, or Infinite Spirit, who provides mind ministry for self-consciousness. Nonetheless, through the agency of the Third Source and Center we are given life and mind, and this connects us to all other life.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
My interpretation of this parable, is that the mustard seed is not only the "kingdom of heaven growing in one's field", the least of all Adjutants, is that also "the faith of the human individual might grow like a mustard seed, through cooperation with the fatherly guidance eschewed by the Father Fragment."


The kingdom of heaven growing in the field of one's mind does have it's roots in the pre-adjutant soil, but the seed grows into a tree with the ministry of the seven adjutants who deliver the mind to the morontia level of the Holy Spirit who then provides the soul and the gift of faith which encourages fatherly guidance. Never forget the Holy Spirit.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
But now there is so many supplementary Adjutant spirits downloading to Urantian minds, from the archangel circuit [108:4.4] and the Spirit of Truth [193:5.2], that it can be easy to "overlook the foundation" of how spirit actually dominates the physical existences. If we are looking for a relationship as to how an "actual fragment" of the First Source and Center could be guiding us through the will of the father, who is the First Source and Center, then truly it is awesome to see the means by which he guides not only every sentient being, but nourishes every life in the universe.


It is awesome how God works and how much he loves life and cares for the nonliving as well (meaning material matter). But I have to say that the archangels have nothing at all to do with the adjutants. Also, there are no supplementary adjutants. There are only seven. Remember that the number seven is basic to the seven evolving universes of time and space. The supplements are the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjusters who all minister to human minds most lovingly.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
the soul is "the joint offspring of an adjutant mind dominated by a human will that craves to know God" (111:2.10), that such craving might be part of the most intrinsic aspect of not only human lives, but every material living being on Urantia, even the grand universe.


The craving to know God requires the last two adjutants to make contact with mind, so it exists only in human minds. Subhuman animals and other living things do not have this craving. But, life itself does have this craving built into it. Life is precious and sacred.


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fanofVan wrote:
Baloney. Nonteachable mind is NOT the platform from which life advances experientially.


Please read again what I wrote:

katroofjebus wrote:
I agree the nonteachable mind is the platform by which evolution begins its course, but the nonteachable mind, by definition, is non-experiencing.


fanofVan wrote:
And fusion does NOT deliver total understanding of anything


Please read again what I wrote:

katroofjebus wrote:
The thing about fusion is that it doesn't automatically reveal all facts about reality to the mortal mind. Total understanding of the universe is something mortals never actually achieve. God is the first truth and the last fact, and since there is no end to time, there is no last fact to learn and understand.


fanofVan wrote:
The universe does NOT have a mechanical nature.


The universe is "neither mechanical nor magical; it is a creation of mind and a mechanism of law." (481.5) 42:11.1


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But even that premind life is the life of every living creature, and if you have a taste for it within yourself, then you have already had a taste of Paradise, the Source from which it comes. Therefore, you sense the yearning for perfection in every living creature, and like unto a father, you would nourish and cultivate the life within each of the creatures given unto your keeping, you know like a farmer or a shepherd.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But even that premind life is the life of every living creature, and if you have a taste for it within yourself, then you have already had a taste of Paradise, the Source from which it comes. Therefore, you sense the yearning for perfection in every living creature, and like unto a father, you would nourish and cultivate the life within each of the creatures given unto your keeping, you know like a farmer or a shepherd.


Beautifully said.

(737.2) 65:6.2 There is original endowment of adaptation in living things and beings. In every living plant or animal cell, in every living organism — material or spiritual — there is an insatiable craving for the attainment of ever-increasing perfection of environmental adjustment, organismal adaptation, and augmented life realization. These interminable efforts of all living things evidence the existence within them of an innate striving for perfection.


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:?: It is not my own soul, my own mind, or my ego, but the very life within my material existence that longs to become a perfected being just like He who is the First Source and Center? I will stake my entrance to the morontia spheres on this possibility. Not "how much recognition achievement or notoriety did I earn in Society?" but "how did I nourish all life while utilizing my time and resources?" To let every creature grow in its own way and not tarnish the shape of its current or perfected form. Will every life organism try in its own way, to achieve the outcome of seeking his own ultimate perfection? Whether the maximum possibility is unconscious life in a garden or rather union with Him in Paradise?

:!: The inescapable fate being, whether one cooperates or defies the life calling from within them, every individual sentient lifeform is considered to contribute towards ultimate good of the universe!!

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it's said that we benefit from the first five adjutant spirits degree of contact with subhuman intellect, but i dunno that there's anything we can do to foster that ourselves nor any benefit to be had there since progress and value is gained by advancing contact with the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, and increased coordination of all seven adjutant mind spirits (which should be regarded as a circuit rather than entities. but that increased coordination of the seven adjutants is only a part of progression from the seventh to third cosmic circles and from there on adjutant mind gives way to morontia mind and all the while founded in the cosmic mind.

i'd say the "supplemental" ministering spirits that avail us are here....liasons with spirit-mind not the primitive energy-mind:

Quote:
seven spirits of the advancing worlds are:

194:2.13 (2062.2) 1. The bestowed spirit of the Universal Father—the Thought Adjusters.

194:2.14 (2062.3) 2. The spirit presence of the Eternal Son—the spirit gravity of the universe of universes and the certain channel of all spirit communion.

194:2.15 (2062.4) 3. The spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit—the universal spirit-mind of all creation, the spiritual source of the intellectual kinship of all progressive intelligences.

194:2.16 (2062.5) 4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son—the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.

194:2.17 (2062.6) 5. The spirit of the Infinite Spirit and the Universe Mother Spirit—the Holy Spirit, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Spirit.

194:2.18 (2062.7) 6. The mind-spirit of the Universe Mother Spirit—the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe.

194:2.19 (2062.8) 7. The spirit of the Father, Sons, and Spirits—the new-name spirit of the ascending mortals of the realms after the fusion of the mortal spirit-born soul with the Paradise Thought Adjuster and after the subsequent attainment of the divinity and glorification of the status of the Paradise Corps of the Finality.


the seven adjutant mind spirits that we have are the norm for a decimal/experimental planet...others have more of unknown descriptions but i doubt that we should view it as a deficit or handicap...it's probably something that wouldn't apply to our limited intellectual capabilities.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But even that premind life is the life of every living creature, and if you have a taste for it within yourself, then you have already had a taste of Paradise, the Source from which it comes. Therefore, you sense the yearning for perfection in every living creature, and like unto a father, you would nourish and cultivate the life within each of the creatures given unto your keeping, you know like a farmer or a shepherd.


Here's 11 false claims and declarations by Stephen just today!!

1. Premind life is NOT the life of every living creature or even most or hardly any creatures at all actually.

2. Nonteachable mind is NOT the platform from which life advances experientially.

3. Fusion does NOT deliver total understanding of anything.

4. The universe does NOT have a mechanical nature.

5. There is nothing about the mind of the First Source and Center or any other Deity or Divine or spirit or celestial mind that is nonteachable. The source of mind is not unteachable.

6. Pre-adjutant spirit mind is NOT unteachable either...it is the mind ministry to that level of evolutionary mind that is nonteachable...BIG difference.

You claim above that Urantians have been isolated due to our world's decimal status...WRONG AGAIN.

7. No person has ever been "isolated" from the adjutants, the Spirit presence and ministry of the Holy Spirit, Mother Spirit or the Father Spirit or the gravity circuits of personality, mind, or spirit. We were not isolated from the Son's Spirit either, merely awaiting that orderly and planned moment for its arrival.

8. You also falsely claim above that the aboriginal race of Andon and Fonta were not connected to all 7 adjutants - YES THEY WERE!! - but only connected to the preadjutant ministry (FALSE CLAIM STILL AGAIN!).

9. There is no such thing as "supplementary adjutants". Quote please.

10. The UB teaches our lives here are certainly NOT simpler or more ideal or less complicated and uncertain as any other mortal beings on any other evolutionary worlds as you claim.

11. The archangels are not downloaded into nonteachable or animal or mortal or celestial or spirit mind. Adjutants are not downloaded either.

That is at least 11 Falsehoods (and still counting) posted by you here in just a few hours. You obviously do not understand much if anything at all about nonteachable mind or the adjutants - both of which are functional only upon material, evolutionary worlds in pre-human and human creatures. And just as obviously you do not care what the UB actually says about anything at all. Your indifference to the contents of the UB could not be more blatant...or repugnant.

:roll:


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:25 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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