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There's an original pair for each local system in the local universe. Our original Adam and Eve are on Satania, I believe. And yes, they are created in pairs. References:

(415.1) 37:9.9 The Material Sons of God. When a creative liaison between the Creator Son and the universe representative of the Infinite Spirit, the Universe Mother Spirit, has completed its cycle, when no more offspring of the combined nature are forthcoming, then does the Creator Son personalize in dual form his last concept of being, thus finally confirming his own and original dual origin. In and of himself he then creates the beautiful and superb Sons and Daughters of the material order of universe sonship. This is the origin of the original Adam and Eve of each local system of Nebadon. They are a reproducing order of sonship, being created male and female. Their progeny function as the relatively permanent citizens of a system capital, though some are commissioned as Planetary Adams.

(512.16) 45:3.16 7. The original Adam of Satania, the supervising head of the Material Sons.

(580.1) 51:0.1 During the dispensation of a Planetary Prince, primitive man reaches the limit of natural evolutionary development, and this biologic attainment signals the System Sovereign to dispatch to such a world the second order of sonship, the biologic uplifters. These Sons, for there are two of them — the Material Son and Daughter — are usually known on a planet as Adam and Eve. The original Material Son of Satania is Adam, and those who go to the system worlds as biologic uplifters always carry the name of this first and original Son of their unique order.


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In regards to the angels, the following reference suggests that they are created in pairs, or compliments, with the same birthdate:

(420.4) 38:4.3 Though not male and female as are the Material Sons and the mortal races, seraphim are negative and positive. In the majority of assignments it requires two angels to accomplish the task. When they are not encircuited, they can work alone; neither do they require complements of being when stationary. Ordinarily they retain their original complements of being, but not necessarily. Such associations are primarily necessitated by function; they are not characterized by sex emotion, though they are exceedingly personal and truly affectionate.

(420.5) 38:4.4 Besides designated homes, seraphim also have group, company, battalion, and unit headquarters. They forgather for reunions every millennium and are all present in accordance with the time of their creation. If a seraphim bears responsibilities which forbid absence from duty, she alternates attendance with her complement, being relieved by a seraphim of another birth date. Each seraphic partner is thereby present at least every other reunion.


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Does anyone know who the Creative Mother-Son, invented by Stephen here, actually is or is being described?

Stephen apparently doesn't answer questions.
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I thought that the logical extenuation of the Eternal Son into the identity of the Creator Son would have been self-evident. That the Creator Son is also the Creator Mother of Nebadon, just as the Eternal Son is also the Eternal Mother of the grand universe, whereas such Michael is referred to as "He" in either case.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I thought that the logical extenuation of the Eternal Son into the identity of the Creator Son would have been self-evident. That the Creator Son is also the Creator Mother of Nebadon, just as the Eternal Son is also the Eternal Mother of the grand universe, whereas such Michael is referred to as "He" in either case.


The only thing evident is you refuse to post text and you never use the proper names or terms introduced by the UB. What's up with that?


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Well the Creator Son of Nebadon is also the Creator Mother-Son of Nebadon. Are you actually a computer that can only recognise a variable or a subject based on its exact and proper Name? You cannot tolerate any imbellishment, even if it enhances the original meaning?

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I prefer accuracy of the UB terminology as written rather than your interpretive fictions and inventions. Use and post the text!!!!!!!


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:15 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Although I've never read Michael of Nebadon described as a "Mother-Son" there is a reference to his character described as being more in lines with the Eternal Mother Son than with the Father. Reference:

(235.2) 21:1.3 The divine natures of these Creator Sons are, in principle, derived equally from the attributes of both Paradise parents. All partake of the fullness of the divine nature of the Universal Father and of the creative prerogatives of the Eternal Son, but as we observe the practical outworking of the Michael functions in the universes, we discern apparent differences. Some Creator Sons appear to be more like God the Father; others more like God the Son. For example: The trend of administration in the universe of Nebadon suggests that its Creator and ruling Son is one whose nature and character more resemble that of the Eternal Mother Son. It should be further stated that some universes are presided over by Paradise Michaels who appear equally to resemble God the Father and God the Son. And these observations are in no sense implied criticisms; they are simply a recording of fact.


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katroofjebus wrote:
Although I've never read Michael of Nebadon described as a "Mother-Son" there is a reference to his character described as being more in lines with the Eternal Mother Son than with the Father. Reference:

(235.2) 21:1.3 The divine natures of these Creator Sons are, in principle, derived equally from the attributes of both Paradise parents. All partake of the fullness of the divine nature of the Universal Father and of the creative prerogatives of the Eternal Son, but as we observe the practical outworking of the Michael functions in the universes, we discern apparent differences. Some Creator Sons appear to be more like God the Father; others more like God the Son. For example: The trend of administration in the universe of Nebadon suggests that its Creator and ruling Son is one whose nature and character more resemble that of the Eternal Mother Son. It should be further stated that some universes are presided over by Paradise Michaels who appear equally to resemble God the Father and God the Son. And these observations are in no sense implied criticisms; they are simply a recording of fact.


Isn't this a specific character trait assigned to a specific Michael? This is not a description of function or a name of Michael of Nebadon, right? And isn't there already a Mother Spirit? And doesn't the jamming together of these two names and functions confuse their very beings and roles in the Local Universe? Is accuracy of terminology and personages and functions too much to ask for do you think in a classroom of students dedicated, supposedly, to the study and meaning of the actual text as written and gifted? Why distort and misinterpret the Revelation? To what end and for what agenda and purpose should students here feel free to make up names, titles, words, and meanings???!!! Poppycock and horse feathers!!!

8)

34:1.4 (375.3) This personalized presence of the Infinite Spirit, the Creative Mother Spirit of the local universe, is known in Satania as the Divine Minister. To all practical intents and spiritual purposes this manifestation of Deity is a divine individual, a spirit person. And she is so recognized and regarded by the Creator Son. It is through this localization and personalization of the Third Source and Center in our local universe that the Spirit could subsequently become so fully subject to the Creator Son that of this Son it was truly said, “All power in heaven and on earth has been intrusted to him.”


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Well the Creator Son of Nebadon is also the Creator Mother-Son of Nebadon. Are you actually a computer that can only recognise a variable or a subject based on its exact and proper Name? You cannot tolerate any imbellishment, even if it enhances the original meaning?


This distortion is no enhancement and is not an embellishment but a fiction of your invention. You make up words and definitions whenever it pleases you and impose them here where they are specifically improper and unwelcome. Michael is NOT the Creator Mother-Son of Nebadon….not by ANY definition or usage imaginable as it is completely an inaccurate term.

Does Michael create alone???? Does Michael create or bestow mind? Or life itself? What of the limitations of time and space?

34:2.4 (376.1) The Creative Spirit is coresponsible with the Creator Son in producing the creatures of the worlds and never fails the Son in all efforts to uphold and conserve these creations. Life is ministered and maintained through the agency of the Creative Spirit. “You send forth your Spirit, and they are created. You renew the face of the earth.”

34:3.6 (377.2) The Divine Minister is the understanding helper of the Creator Son, enabling him to overcome and atone for his inherent limitations regarding space, for when these two function in administrative union, they are practically independent of time and space within the confines of their local creation. Therefore, as practically observed throughout a local universe, the Creator Son and the Creative Spirit usually function independently of both time and space since there is always available to each the time and the space liberation of the other.

34:5.1 (379.1) The Divine Minister co-operates with the Creator Son in the formulation of life and the creation of new orders of beings up to the time of his seventh bestowal and, subsequently, after his elevation to the full sovereignty of the universe, continues to collaborate with the Son and the Son’s bestowed spirit in the further work of world ministry and planetary progression.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:35 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Isn't codependency a negative term commonly used to describe a psychic illness or weakness? Rather than bring out the long knives against one another, I'd prefer to discuss the reasons why the universe finds it beneficial to pair up personalities, not for codependence, but for mutually advantageous inter-dependency. What is the benefit of doing so? Why is it so essential for human beings to experience the intimacy of normal pairing and mating? What is the experiential value for the ascendant life?

Another thing I have often wondered about is Michael's post-resurrection experience on the Mansion worlds. Since he did not experience normal human pairing and mating, did he need to atone for this lack of experience by spending time with the Material Sons and Daughters, or did his bestowal as an actual Material Son suffice for his human lack? According to the reference, I believe that may be so. How beneficial that must have been to him, as a distant memory, when raising his father's family and later in his close relationship to his disciples.

(2041.3) 191:3.4 In this manner did Michael of Nebadon complete his service of universe experience since he had already, in connection with his previous bestowals, experienced to the full the life of the ascendant mortals of time and space from the sojourn on the headquarters of the constellation even on to, and through, the service of the headquarters of the superuniverse. And it was by these very morontia experiences that the Creator Son of Nebadon really finished and acceptably terminated his seventh and final universe bestowal.


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katroofjebus wrote:
Isn't codependency a negative term commonly used to describe a psychic illness or weakness? Rather than bring out the long knives against one another, I'd prefer to discuss the reasons why the universe finds it beneficial to pair up personalities, not for codependence, but for mutually advantageous inter-dependency. What is the benefit of doing so? Why is it so essential for human beings to experience the intimacy of normal pairing and mating? What is the experiential value for the ascendant life?

Another thing I have often wondered about is Michael's post-resurrection experience on the Mansion worlds. Since he did not experience normal human pairing and mating, did he need to atone for this lack of experience by spending time with the Material Sons and Daughters, or did his bestowal as an actual Material Son suffice for his human lack? According to the reference, I believe that may be so. How beneficial that must have been to him, as a distant memory, when raising his father's family and later in his close relationship to his disciples.

(2041.3) 191:3.4 In this manner did Michael of Nebadon complete his service of universe experience since he had already, in connection with his previous bestowals, experienced to the full the life of the ascendant mortals of time and space from the sojourn on the headquarters of the constellation even on to, and through, the service of the headquarters of the superuniverse. And it was by these very morontia experiences that the Creator Son of Nebadon really finished and acceptably terminated his seventh and final universe bestowal.


Good questions. Personality appears to be inherently social. We want and need each other. And male/female, negative/positive, retiring and aggressive, are inherently complementary, and therefore more effective, harmonious, and satisfying than other interpersonal relationships.

Reckon we'll hear about the Master's morontia transition experience plenty on Mansonia?

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Inter-dependence does seem to be pretty universal for most beings. Not only are types of beings often paired and function in teams but such cooperative team work between types of beings is required for reality....little happens in or by personality isolation. Think of the intimate cooperation by the life carriers and the adjutants.

I think the female/male thing is like a binary situation where 1+1=more than 2 or the unifying resulting whole is potentially more than the sum of its parts when the pairing is ideal. This would be true in angels and humans but also consider 3 of the 7 Master Spirits and the Creator Son and Creative Mother Spirit, etc.

Consider how many types of beings are created by such twosomes in intimate liaison. From Paradise to the material/evolutionary worlds. But the offspring of one pairing also often leads to new forms of life by other pairings of dissimilar beings in liaisons.

The exponential power of teams and pairs is fascinating.

The basic flaw in the premise, claims, and conclusions of Stephen is his contention that personality is incomplete or unfulfilled or unexpressed without "co-dependents". This is a false claim. But it is true, or can be true, that effective coupling of the female and male types results in expressions and realizations greater than the potential of either or both working/creating alone. Progeny are the most obvious example of this reality pattern...but there are many!

8)


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katroofjebus wrote:
Another thing I have often wondered about is Michael's post-resurrection experience on the Mansion worlds. Since he did not experience normal human pairing and mating, did he need to atone for this lack of experience by spending time with the Material Sons and Daughters, or did his bestowal as an actual Material Son suffice for his human lack?


i dunno but it seems to me that if "normal human pairing and mating" is a required experience it would have been in the mandate for the 7th bestowal? the mandate said it would be permissable and consistent but probably won't happen. it's my understanding that parenting is a required experience though, but not clear to me where/when Michael acquired that...there are probationary nurserys on all the finaliter HQ's i think. quite possible his experience here after the death of Joseph satisfied that requirement though...


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2041.3) 191:3.4 In this manner did Michael of Nebadon complete his service of universe experience since he had already, in connection with his previous bestowals, experienced to the full the life of the ascendant mortals of time and space from the sojourn on the headquarters of the constellation even on to, and through, the service of the headquarters of the superuniverse. And it was by these very morontia experiences that the Creator Son of Nebadon really finished and acceptably terminated his seventh and final universe bestowal.

Correct me if I misinterpret this but It’s a little confusing when is states his Urantia experience coupled with previous bestowal was enough for him as an ascending mortal to satisfy constellation level experience but “acceptably” finished Mansonia.
If I were the being certifying his mansion world experience I think I’d give passing grade for each level as he arrived. Like a walk though. Allowing him to pick and choose where and how long he desires to hang out.
But it did say he completed his “service” of universe experience. Does service cover “all” aspects of human experience?

Think about after his babtism, he could have left then and had his universe to command.


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