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From the Bible: John 8:44

Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:41 pm +0000

Does the Urantia Book tell this story?

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Re: From the Bible: John 8:44

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:36 am +0000

Ron, I just read this narrative the other day in the UB, but it was worded differently, I don't think Jesus would have said it as reported in John 8:44, but someone will be able to answer you with the proper info shortly.

Re: From the Bible: John 8:44

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:41 am +0000

Greetings Ron! I see you registered here back in 2015 so I hope you have been reading the UB for sometime.

This is the story of the Feast of the Tabernacles week of preaching described in Paper 162. The quote you reference is indeed presented differently in the UB than in the book of John. The quote in question is within the UB narrative presented in section 5 of Paper 162 - The Sermon on the Light of the World.

I'll return soon with some links, additional text, and comments when I can get to a computer.

For now I would say that the UB teaches us to remember several important facts related to ancient texts that all Biblical scholars also affirm - the actual authors are often different from and later than those attributed and have suffered multiple edits at the hand of those with a theological motive or inadequate translation and transcription skills.


Re: From the Bible: John 8:44

Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:04 am +0000

For those who are looking for a cross-reference resource between the Bible and the Urantia Papers - try the Paramony. Been a favorite of mine for a long, long time!

Link: http://www.urantiabook.org/urantiabook/paramony/

And for the Book of John: http://www.urantiabook.org/urantiabook/ ... /john.html

Available at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Paramony-Cross-R ... 965197255/

The Apostles did misunderstand much of the Teachings of the Master. Indeed, Jesus told them of and prepared them for his death for months, then weeks and days, and then again within hours of his death...and who would do it and why! Still they were shocked and in disbelief. They also mostly misunderstood his mission and the Kingdom and his return. Some of us are so tied to our beliefs and preconceptions that we are unable to let go of our prejudices and hear the truth - even when spoken in person by Michael himself. The reading of the Papers is no less challenging to our preconceptions. It is important to remember this when studying the UB and comparing it to the Bible.

196:2.1 (2091.10) Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul’s religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian.

196:2.2 (2091.11) Jesus’ life in the flesh portrays a transcendent religious growth from the early ideas of primitive awe and human reverence up through years of personal spiritual communion until he finally arrived at that advanced and exalted status of the consciousness of his oneness with the Father. And thus, in one short life, did Jesus traverse that experience of religious spiritual progression which man begins on earth and ordinarily achieves only at the conclusion of his long sojourn in the spirit training schools of the successive levels of the pre-Paradise career. Jesus progressed from a purely human consciousness of the faith certainties of personal religious experience to the sublime spiritual heights of the positive realization of his divine nature and to the consciousness of his close association with the Universal Father in the management of a universe. He progressed from the humble status of mortal dependence which prompted him spontaneously to say to the one who called him Good Teacher, “Why do you call me good? None is good but God,” to that sublime consciousness of achieved divinity which led him to exclaim, “Which one of you convicts me of sin?” And this progressing ascent from the human to the divine was an exclusively mortal achievement. And when he had thus attained divinity, he was still the same human Jesus, the Son of Man as well as the Son of God.

196:2.3 (2092.1) Mark, Matthew, and Luke retain something of the picture of the human Jesus as he engaged in the superb struggle to ascertain the divine will and to do that will. John presents a picture of the triumphant Jesus as he walked on earth in the full consciousness of divinity. The great mistake that has been made by those who have studied the Master’s life is that some have conceived of him as entirely human, while others have thought of him as only divine. Throughout his entire experience he was truly both human and divine, even as he yet is.

196:2.4 (2092.2) But the greatest mistake was made in that, while the human Jesus was recognized as having a religion, the divine Jesus (Christ) almost overnight became a religion. Paul’s Christianity made sure of the adoration of the divine Christ, but it almost wholly lost sight of the struggling and valiant human Jesus of Galilee, who, by the valor of his personal religious faith and the heroism of his indwelling Adjuster, ascended from the lowly levels of humanity to become one with divinity, thus becoming the new and living way whereby all mortals may so ascend from humanity to divinity. Mortals in all stages of spirituality and on all worlds may find in the personal life of Jesus that which will strengthen and inspire them as they progress from the lowest spirit levels up to the highest divine values, from the beginning to the end of all personal religious experience.

196:2.5 (2092.3) At the time of the writing of the New Testament, the authors not only most profoundly believed in the divinity of the risen Christ, but they also devotedly and sincerely believed in his immediate return to earth to consummate the heavenly kingdom. This strong faith in the Lord’s immediate return had much to do with the tendency to omit from the record those references which portrayed the purely human experiences and attributes of the Master. The whole Christian movement tended away from the human picture of Jesus of Nazareth toward the exaltation of the risen Christ, the glorified and soon-returning Lord Jesus Christ.

196:2.6 (2092.4) Jesus founded the religion of personal experience in doing the will of God and serving the human brotherhood; Paul founded a religion in which the glorified Jesus became the object of worship and the brotherhood consisted of fellow believers in the divine Christ. In the bestowal of Jesus these two concepts were potential in his divine-human life, and it is indeed a pity that his followers failed to create a unified religion which might have given proper recognition to both the human and the divine natures of the Master as they were inseparably bound up in his earth life and so gloriously set forth in the original gospel of the kingdom.

196:2.7 (2093.1) You would be neither shocked nor disturbed by some of Jesus’ strong pronouncements if you would only remember that he was the world’s most wholehearted and devoted religionist. He was a wholly consecrated mortal, unreservedly dedicated to doing his Father’s will. Many of his apparently hard sayings were more of a personal confession of faith and a pledge of devotion than commands to his followers. And it was this very singleness of purpose and unselfish devotion that enabled him to effect such extraordinary progress in the conquest of the human mind in one short life. Many of his declarations should be considered as a confession of what he demanded of himself rather than what he required of all his followers. In his devotion to the cause of the kingdom, Jesus burned all bridges behind him; he sacrificed all hindrances to the doing of his Father’s will.

Here's a link to a very interesting study here at TruthBook related to the Master's life and death...especially related to the Christian doctrine of atonement. There are many such discussions here to review.


Bradly 8)

Re: From the Bible: John 8:44

Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:55 pm +0000

cool! Thanks for the Paramony link, I found the section I read the other day in less than a minute, from Paper 67 :

“You are like your leader, Lucifer, and you have sinfully perpetuated his iniquity. He was a falsifier from the beginning of his self-exaltation because he abode not in the truth.”

And the account of John 8:44 was different in chronology I think, with John locating it shortly after the feeding of the five thousand and UB later on.

Thanks for the other links and references as well!

Thanks Bradly!
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