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 Post subject: Fear and love of God
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Why are we told repeatedly to fear God and at the same time told how much God loves us? We know we "pay" for our sins and we are told we are forgiven. Any thoughts are welcome. Liz


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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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The UB teaches that the "fear" of God is an evolutionary primitivism...a belief based on falsehood which the Jesusonian Gospel corrected 2000 years ago. Jesus never taught such a thing.

Error and sin are not punished by God...but we do reap the consequences and repercussions which occur by such errors.

And yes, mercy ministry extends forgiveness automatically and always to those who will receive it....and we are taught we must give it to others first to receive it for ourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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Thank you f o r your reply. I do understand God does not punish but we have consequences for wrong doing. Our character traits that produce wrong doing must be what is corrected on the mansion worlds. Liz


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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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As we are gathered here in study of the Papers, I wonder the source of "....we are told repeatedly to fear God..."?? The gospel OF, BY, and FROM Jesus 2000 years ago was delivered with the specific intent to end our fear of God with the resurrection and his endless faith in God's love for all. It is sad that so much Christian creed and doctrine retained and amplified the primitive fears of He whom Jesus declared a loving Father in a friendly universe filled with affection, patience, forgiveness, and mercy. So sad.....

Like the gospel of Jesus, the UB is also filled with the Good News of our loving Father, Mother, and Son whereby the primitive myths of atonement and eternal suffering is replaced with....reality. The reality of love and hope which the Spirit of Truth whispers in every ear.


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:14 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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Liz, I would point you to this section in The Urantia Book called "The Fear of the Lord" where Jesus is asked a very similar question by Philip:

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-149-the-second-preaching-tour#U149_6_1

and he says, among many other things:

Quote:
149:6.7 “You have been taught that you should `fear God and keep his commandments, for that is the whole duty of man.’ But I have come to give you a new and higher commandment. I would teach you to `love God and learn to do his will, for that is the highest privilege of the liberated sons of God.’ Your fathers were taught to `fear God—the Almighty King.’ I teach you, `Love God—the all-merciful Father.’


When suffering the consequences of sinful behavior, it is not a wrathful God that is causing that consequence; in fact God is always reaching out his hand of forgiveness to us, even in our error. And the more we accept his offers of love and forgiveness, the less we will do the wrong thing, and the more we will do the right thing. Because learning to do his will brings the highest happiness.


maryjo


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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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Thank you all SO much for the replies and references. Since I have moved in with my kids I am in a Baptist bible belt and the only church I can get to. My one friend is a strict Baptist and a nice person but I cannot talk about anything outside her faith. So I look outside (here)for help and answers. I do own TUB but confess some is still hard for me. Thank you again...Liz


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I grew up a Southern Baptist!! There are some pretty stiff necked ones to be sure...hahahaha! My family is filled with them. I've found the best way to approach them is to claim to be a "Jesusonian" Christian! An SB is easily "cornered" if you will when they profess doctrines which do not originate with Christ or the red letters in the red lettered Bible. Do you have one? An awesome tool!! Blood sacrifice, original sin, atonement, angry God, hell and damnation....none of those come from ANY teaching or words of Jesus....even a Baptist must confess this is true!

If I tell any Christian I believe in what Jesus taught and reject or am dubious about anything that contradicts the teachings of Jesus, I most often get an attentive and tolerant ear.

Over the past 50 years, fewer and fewer SB's believe the Bible is the literal truth (the literalists) - today it's less than half with more liberals than literalists in even this conservative and fundamentalist group of evangelicals...the absolute word of God whereby Adam and Eve were the first people a few thousand years ago and dinosaurs and geology are myths which gives way, if slowly and grudgingly, to reason and science and evolutionary progress.

Even Southern Baptists progress and evolve!! Plus they are a very independent minded group who reject authority and believe in a personal relationship with God and a very personal religious experience.

In the UB, Jesus showed us how to deal with all religionists no matter their creeds and doctrines....find and focus on that which you share in common and tenderly expand outward from there and discover and treasure that which is shared between the two of you!! The differences are more important to them than to you....if you understand religion and reality that is!!

I'll be back to post some supporing text on the Fear and Love of God....a most interesting topic!! Thank you!


:wink: :biggrin: :idea: 8)


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The role of fear in evolutionary progress of humanity is a very lengthy and interesting story. It is actually the very beginning of personal religious experience. Prior to the ability of reason and science to explain reality and experience, fear invents solutions or causes for all effects we experience. That includes the good things that happen and the bad things that happen. Since so much that happens to us appears to have no observable or understandable cause, then we invent such causes, including causes for such natural realities of sunrise and sunset, rain, the seasons, accidents, good luck/fortune and bad, feast, and famine, victory and defeat, etc.

Such fears of misfortune and hope of good fortune led to the earliest concept of spirits, ghosts, and the unseen hand of intelligent and deliberate forces in the world....the very beginning of the God concept in the most primitive of minds. Our dual nature and our own awareness of that dual nature has been with us as a defining and fundamental element of humanity from the very first humans - Andon and Fonta. Our awareness of this reality is the line of definition of our humanity. We are not humans, as a species, until such awareness!

However, the grip that fear has upon us and to the extent that fear determines our priorities and choices and perspective of reality, to such a degree do we remain primitive and ignorant and unenlightened. Paper 86 and 87 are a good introduction to the very real contributions of fear to our evolutionary progress as people through the earlier Mortal Epochs. We are told many of us are still very primitive today and are still motivated by unrealistic and self invented fears.

But faith and religious experience delivered by fear are still today superior to no faith or religious experience...so even now, that which drives people to a search for answers and a belief in gods, creators, controllers, rulers, and the causes of all material effects is relatively and ultimately good.

We are told we are not to judge primitive religions or the relgious experience of primitive people by our own more informed and more enlightened perspective. All religious experience is functionally progressive no matter how ill conceived or distant from reality in fact. Isn't it odd how truth can be approached and acquired no matter how false its origin or the perspective of its experience.

While we are not to judge primitive religions or people, we are taught the meaning and value of discerning the differences in evolutionary religious experience and that of revelatory religious experience. Personal revelation by the Thought Adjuster/God Fragment and epochal revelations delivering fact and truth of universe realities offer us the means of progress both personally and socially as a world.

5:4.1 (66.5) The morality of the religions of evolution drives men forward in the God quest by the motive power of fear. The religions of revelation allure men to seek for a God of love because they crave to become like him. But religion is not merely a passive feeling of “absolute dependence” and “surety of survival”; it is a living and dynamic experience of divinity attainment predicated on humanity service.

86:1.4 (950.6) Early man lived in uncertainty and in constant fear of chance—bad luck. Life was an exciting game of chance; existence was a gamble. It is no wonder that partially civilized people still believe in chance and evince lingering predispositions to gambling. Primitive man alternated between two potent interests: the passion of getting something for nothing and the fear of getting nothing for something. And this gamble of existence was the main interest and the supreme fascination of the early savage mind.

86:6.2 (955.7) Very early in the history of mankind the realities of the imaginary world of ghosts and spirits became universally believed, and this newly imagined spirit world became a power in primitive society. The mental and moral life of all mankind was modified for all time by the appearance of this new factor in human thinking and acting.

86:6.3 (955.8) Into this major premise of illusion and ignorance, mortal fear has packed all of the subsequent superstition and religion of primitive peoples. This was man’s only religion up to the times of revelation, and today many of the world’s races have only this crude religion of evolution.

86:6.6 (956.2) But at last the mind of primitive man was occupied with thoughts which transcended all of his inherent biologic urges; at last man was about to evolve an art of living based on something more than response to material stimuli. The beginnings of a primitive philosophic life policy were emerging. A supernatural standard of living was about to appear, for, if the spirit ghost in anger visits ill luck and in pleasure good fortune, then must human conduct be regulated accordingly. The concept of right and wrong had at last evolved; and all of this long before the times of any revelation on earth.

86:6.7 (956.3) With the emergence of these concepts, there was initiated the long and wasteful struggle to appease the ever-displeased spirits, the slavish bondage to evolutionary religious fear, that long waste of human effort upon tombs, temples, sacrifices, and priesthoods. It was a terrible and frightful price to pay, but it was worth all it cost, for man therein achieved a natural consciousness of relative right and wrong; human ethics was born!

86:7.3 (956.6) But these ancient ideas of religion prevented men from becoming fatalistic and hopelessly pessimistic; they believed they could at least do something to influence fate. The religion of ghost fear impressed upon men that they must regulate their conduct, that there was a supermaterial world which was in control of human destiny.

86:7.5 (957.1) Industry, war, slavery, and civil government arose in response to the social evolution of man in his natural environment; religion similarly arose as his response to the illusory environment of the imaginary ghost world. Religion was an evolutionary development of self-maintenance, and it has worked, notwithstanding that it was originally erroneous in concept and utterly illogical.

86:7.6 (957.2) Primitive religion prepared the soil of the human mind, by the powerful and awesome force of false fear, for the bestowal of a bona fide spiritual force of supernatural origin, the Thought Adjuster. And the divine Adjusters have ever since labored to transmute God-fear into God-love. Evolution may be slow, but it is unerringly effective.



8)


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 Post subject: Re: Fear and love of God
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Fan..again thank you for your most helpful reply. That was the clearest explanation I have had. Much to ponder. I always enjoy reading your posts even tho many o f them are advanced for me. Again, thank you so much. Liz


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It is a pleasure to study with you. Please ask anything you want. All such sincere inquiries are most welcome and encouraged here...the very purpose of TB, although too many appear not to understand that reality.

Thanks to the student who asks a question, we all benefit by consideration of its answer, and in that reflection and research of the Revelation to answer does the student who asks become the teacher of others and the one who answers benefit thereby as a fellow student!!

The UB says that we have not truly learned that which we do not teach! Likewise we do not truly believe that which does not also determine how we choose and what we choose. Faith is an act. Faith drives choice, motive, priority, and act and reveals our belief not by word but by deed. Faith is confirmation of belief by its acts. Teaching is a confirmation of knowledge by its sharing.

We learn by doing. We improve by practice and the errors of imperfection. Perfecting by experiential wisdom is the quest of time and space. This is the reality we are taught by the UB. It is such a joy to share and learn about this reality together. Learning and teaching ARE also doing! So...thanks for the question!

There are those who believe the study of and knowledge of reality is somehow unimportant or unproductive and yet one cannot learn the fact and truth of reality and remain or become idle or complacent or indifferent. Those who accuse others of such have yet to learn much about reality and languish themselves in a false sense of superiority....and ignorance of reality...busily swallowing camels and plucking saw dust from the eyes of others...while straining at gnats and blinded by beams in their disappointments and impatience!

The study and knowledge of reality compels change, transformation, and perfecting by living in that reality learned. Such learning begins with sincere questions and inquiry....not by declarations, proclamations, dissertations, sermons, and fables....which so often distort and contradict the source of knowledge we are gathered here to study.

Questions are always welcome...and lead to discovery by all. The greatest teacher in history taught with questions too...just sayin'.....

Bradly. 8)


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the promise is very clear: "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you." We create a vacuum when we seek answers. Sincere questions are the result of sincere searching.


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