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Hi everybody!

I have a question, and although I am generally aware of what the answer is according to the Urantia Book, I feel I can benefit from your input.

Brazil is in the midst of presidential elections and it isn't pretty. The polarization is sooooo extreme, it makes Hillary and Trump look like a Sunday school class. The "quality" of the candidates is downright scary, and yet the population is being forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, a hard right guy promising to clean up the country and a hodge podge of candidates from the left trying to come up with a candidate capable of defeating the conservative. We are witnessing the typical "rise of the reactionary right" after 20 years of left wing populist government. I personally have stayed clear, first of all because as a foreign resident I don't vote and secondly because the electoral process here is a farce, as I believe it is in most so-called "democracies", where the reality is oligarchies striving against one another, buying and selling politicians and throwing the population the phony bone of elections.

However there is a relatively new movement known as "liquid democracy" or "delegative democracy" which I believe is closer to an actual representative government. What makes this movement possible is block chain technology, simply put it is basically direct participation via smart phone or computer, or delegating your vote to a group you trust. This quote is from this site but a google search gives more options
https://medium.com/organizer-sandbox/li ... 66f5e53b6f

"Liquid Democracy, a subset of Delegative Democracy, is a powerful voting model for collective decision making in large communities. Liquid Democracy combines the advantages of Direct Democracy and Representative Democracy and creates a truly democratic voting system that empowers voters to either vote on issues directly, or to delegate ones voting power to a trusted party.

Through delegation, people with domain-specific knowledge are able to better influence the outcome of decisions, which in turn leads to an overall better governance of the state. Because of this, Liquid Democracy naturally evolves into a Meritocracy, where decisions are mainly made by those who have the kind of knowledge and experience required to make well-informed decisions on issues."

Since we are apparently in a paradigm shift with many advances in personal rights, women's equality, racial equality and a general awakening of the population in many aspects, this idea appears to be a step forward. Now whether this will topple the oligarchies' control or not I don't know. I do believe that the gradual loss of the oligarchies' power is more of an evolutionary change than anything else, the resultant unfair distribution of wealth and amassing of huge amounts of unearned wealth are both contrary to Jesus' message, at least as I understand it.

I don't see how an average mortal can bring about societal change from within the political system, without being contaminated by it but perhaps this "liquid democracy" can change it from the outside, since it makes the political class obsolete.

So in posting this I am not requesting political discussion and I sincerely hope it doesn't turn into mud-slinging, but in a time like the present, with so much mistrust in the political class and the lack of transparent public administration I feel those of us who have chosen to seek first the things of the Spirit should, if possible, offer valid solutions when they are available.

I welcome your suggestions and correction. Thanks!


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Liquid as in liquidity? It doesn't work when the people who have the money (liquidity) are trying to finance their own so-called experts.

The economic model is not a resource-based economy and it is a monetary-based economy. Such monetary system, since it is used to appease debt rather than create for society, cannot support progress within this investment "liquid" democracy model you are suggesting.

A national bank, which has delegated its power of currency creation to subdivisive banks, has delegated in the improper manner. It delegated the authority in which it was supposed to be the actual expert. The way that experts are established, is by employing experts in the national bank who have created resources for a nation, and are therefore more interested in resource development. Banks recognise the need for increasing the supply renewable(biological) resources, yet do not have currently the skilled experts of creation (the true farmers) as their chief financiers. Thus, you see how panels in the modern day trying to "bring in" consultants, sometimes a sophisticant posing in the guise of the actual expert.

You see that in this era, "the era of the consultant", that this appointee has much sway in his or her recommendation to the board of directors of a corporation, extending into the potential that a consultant receives delegative authority to decide FOR a board of directors, in certain issues within the grasp of the corporation's business. BUT, We can take issue in the manners of how experts are recognised. The expert is not necessarily an appointee, but can be someone with the experience which lends toward public insight.

And where is the wisdom in all this? Often, the expert's opinion arises out of the public, and delivered unsolicited. You cannot dismiss recommendations when they are true, whether you consider the source to be an expert or not. A true expert must maintain the perpetual consideration, and cannot eliminate possibilities even if they were "offered in the wrong context" "rudely announced" or otherwise.

_________________
to the underlaying unity of all life
so that the voice of intuition may guide us
closer to our common keeper


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Liquid as in liquidity? It doesn't work when the people who have the money (liquidity) are trying to finance their own so-called experts.



Hi SEla, I personally didn't think of the "liquid" as "liquidity" but rather like a liquid, in that it flows to the lowest places, allowing even the "lowest" individual to seek the best way to have his ideas or hopes represented. But of course I could be wrong about that.
I agree that the economic model is flawed and is based on greed instead of sound and fair principles.


Last edited by pethuel on Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:33 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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A very interesting model with great merit IMO! You know in heaven they have "weighted" democracy - those with the greater experience and wisdom are given more votes. Everyone gets to vote but not all votes carry the same influence and effect. A worthy concept that definitely effects outcomes!

The false choices of some democracies (the USA included) do not provide for any form of transparency or accountability to the electorate. Here in the US, accountability is to the source of financing for candidates, parties, platforms, and specific issues. But it is also true that most of us voters are uneducated or uninformed and unqualified to truly choose solutions so we have simplistic "parties" which appeal to the lowest common denominators and run fear based and anger based campaigns and then do whatever the "money" dictates to them.

We are told that the ideals of governance include expertise, ethics, loyalty, service, transparency, and accountability. Until the system itself idealizes, upholds, and requires these tenets, we will suffer. I really like and support the proxy idea. Vote for expertise and character, rather than specifically on the issues and allow those who are selected to represent the votes of others form coalitions on various issues without the constraints of the "Party Line" on all issues. Brilliant. I'll vote for that!


Bradly :idea: :wink: :biggrin: 8)

PS: Please read the article at the link before commenting! Thank you.


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I must admit I have been heavily influenced by Paper 72, "Government on a Neighboring Planet", it is encouraging to see what they went through before arriving at a fairly stable government in one country of that planet, although apparently the planet still suffers from "the virus of national sovereignity".

And although I am probably best described as "paranoid" when it comes to technology and the potential for evil if controlled by the wrong people, this idea of "liquid democracy" is a good example of what tremendous good can be accomplished when technology is used for good instead of war and the maintenance of a consumer society.


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