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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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First of all, you are correct I am ashamed that I have tried to flaunt some superior attitude regarding my intellectual beliefs of faith, enforcement upon others in the way you have described. I must garner even the seeds of truth before the fruits of Spirit may be gained in this wise.

Please do discount my reply, for I am looking upon Urantia as the storms that will ensue, and yet I am asking for more experience with One whom I may call or recognise God, before I would realise the fullness of these truths for myself. Or to apply any perscription policy for society, or convince another of my belief.

However, in the assurances I have gained thus far in my experience, it is not the intellectual certainty, but the consistency I have made in my life. If I am to have an argument, let it be in final terms so that then there can be no debate afterward. My biggest advantage is not the postulates of the Urantia Papers, but my continuous maintenance of the full consideration for others' thoughts. If every sentient's quandary is unique, and I have assumed it is, my own assurances are experiencially leveraged, multiplied, by my present coordination factor. I want to share experience creating with another person, then there is an empathetic bond, and a finite basis for establishing agreement.

With this whole Thought Adjuster concept - it is a mystery to me. It sounds like a person who has Self-Realisation of Ultimate Potentiality (this is an Emersonian perspective), has gained final coordination of highest superconscious and deepest unconsciousness aspects of being. What is the Thought Adjuster, it is the person as the human individual exists on the highest superconscious, but the soul and actual experience of that one could be represented by the morontia. Therefore, some type of "Self-"assurance.

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Ill give my thoughts on assurance starting with faith and hope: faith and hope originate from the 4 the epochal revelation and have over the centuries been pidgeonholed by Peters Christianity. Faith and hope are necessary beginings and are associated with existential diety. The 5th epochal revelation takes it down to earth for our clearer understanding and teaches us that faith can mature into trust and hope can mature into assurance. Trust and assurance are adjectives, things that we can act out, do something with. Trust and assurance are associated with experiential diety, the Supreme.
“We must not only be something, we must do something.”
Faith allows entrance into the kingdom but entrance is just the open door to an eternity of experience that is facilitated by trust.
Experiential diety, the Supreme, are new concepts. They manifest as the urges to get up and do something with your faith and hope, mature and transform into trust and assurance, the experiential path to perfection.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
First of all, you are correct I am ashamed that I have tried to flaunt some superior attitude regarding my intellectual beliefs of faith, enforcement upon others in the way you have described. I must garner even the seeds of truth before the fruits of Spirit may be gained in this wise.

Please do discount my reply, for I am looking upon Urantia as the storms that will ensue, and yet I am asking for more experience with One whom I may call or recognise God, before I would realise the fullness of these truths for myself. Or to apply any perscription policy for society, or convince another of my belief.

However, in the assurances I have gained thus far in my experience, it is not the intellectual certainty, but the consistency I have made in my life. If I am to have an argument, let it be in final terms so that then there can be no debate afterward. My biggest advantage is not the postulates of the Urantia Papers, but my continuous maintenance of the full consideration for others' thoughts. If every sentient's quandary is unique, and I have assumed it is, my own assurances are experiencially leveraged, multiplied, by my present coordination factor. I want to share experience creating with another person, then there is an empathetic bond, and a finite basis for establishing agreement.

With this whole Thought Adjuster concept - it is a mystery to me. It sounds like a person who has Self-Realisation of Ultimate Potentiality (this is an Emersonian perspective), has gained final coordination of highest superconscious and deepest unconsciousness aspects of being. What is the Thought Adjuster, it is the person as the human individual exists on the highest superconscious, but the soul and actual experience of that one could be represented by the morontia. Therefore, some type of "Self-"assurance.


Thanks for the transparency SEla_Kelly! The Mystery Monitors are well named! Their very existence reveals a reality that I cannot define, but I do get "glimpses" from time to time that encourage and strengthen me.
The dynamics and logistics of their existence and influence is even a mystery to the narrators, how much more so for us! From an experiential and revelatory standpoint there have been moments in my life in which I have known beyond the shadow of a doubt that I was receiving a message from someone with the authority of a father and the loving understanding of a mother as well as the steadying hand of an older brother. I have always known this presence as Jesus, and as He said:
165:2.7 (1819.3) “And now, lest some of you too easily comprehend this parable, I will declare that I am both the door to the Father’s sheepfold and at the same time the true shepherd of my Father’s flocks. Every shepherd who seeks to enter the fold without me shall fail, and the sheep will not hear his voice. I, with those who minister with me, am the door. Every soul who enters upon the eternal way by the means I have created and ordained shall be saved and will be able to go on to the attainment of the eternal pastures of Paradise."


After my initial receptive contact with the Urantia Book and the Papers, the revelatory knowledge of Jesus as someone so far above and beyond the narrow confines of Judeo-Christian dogma and tradition revealed the great I AM in a much more vast and truly infinite way. It seems evident to me that this type of revelatory experience (experiential revelation?) can only be provided by the Thought Adjuster's "connection" to the Eternal Father, bypassing our lack of knowledge and experience. In my case I did not attain these events, they simply happened and for a brief moment in my temporal existence I dwelt in the infinite.
That is my assurance, the unshakeable knowledge that He will lead me home, that I am His! And although this view is strictly personal through my Thought Adjuster, I know we all, as children of the Father, are partakers of His eternal love.


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Autorevelation is the substance of the Divine Minister, however. If you could imagine that the human must dream, must become submerged in the relaxational brocesses of sleep. Then there is perhaps two aspects of relating the Divine Ministry to the Monitor of the human individual, and the Divine Ministry which is the sustenance of the Morontial Mind/Tabernacle. Again, I could claim no identification of how the Divine Minister or actually Infinite Spirit ministrates the human individual, in the service of Mystery Monitor, only do I understand faintly of the ministry the Divine Minister into my Morontial Mind/Tabernacle "the renewing of my own mind and of one face of the earth." When I have incorporated the Mystery Monitor into the Morontial Tabernacle of my person, thenafter shall I provide a more proper analysis.

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I suggest we carefully examine these two passages. The Melchizedek author clearly states the order of our perceptions. He uses the word "values" when he states that we grow spiritually as we become conscious of the value of God.

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103:1.5 That religionists have believed so much that was false does not invalidate religion because religion is founded on the recognition of values and is validated by the faith of personal religious experience. Religion, then, is based on experience and religious thought; theology, the philosophy of religion, is an honest attempt to interpret that experience. Such interpretative beliefs may be right or wrong, or a mixture of truth and error.

103:1.6 The realization of the recognition of spiritual values is an experience which is superideational. There is no word in any human language which can be employed to designate this “sense,” “feeling,” “intuition,” or “experience” which we have elected to call God-consciousness. The spirit of God that dwells in man is not personal — the Adjuster is prepersonal — but this Monitor presents a value, exudes a flavor of divinity, which is personal in the highest and infinite sense. If God were not at least personal, he could not be conscious, and if not conscious, then would he be infrahuman.



So it appears from this passage that progress in our consciousness of God is manifested by recognition of our experiencing his value. We then spend our efforts defining this experience rightly or wrongly. (I assume wrongly because it keeps the door to improvement open.)

Most importantly here, is the recognition the experience of God precedes the understanding and the experience is that upon which we place our faith.


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no sophist wrote:
Ill give my thoughts on assurance starting with faith and hope: faith and hope originate from the 4 the epochal revelation and have over the centuries been pidgeonholed by Peters Christianity. Faith and hope are necessary beginings and are associated with existential diety. The 5th epochal revelation takes it down to earth for our clearer understanding and teaches us that faith can mature into trust and hope can mature into assurance. Trust and assurance are adjectives, things that we can act out, do something with. Trust and assurance are associated with experiential diety, the Supreme.
“We must not only be something, we must do something.”
Faith allows entrance into the kingdom but entrance is just the open door to an eternity of experience that is facilitated by trust.
Experiential diety, the Supreme, are new concepts. They manifest as the urges to get up and do something with your faith and hope, mature and transform into trust and assurance, the experiential path to perfection.



Yes indeed...it is a most interesting dynamic described in the UB between the impulses, urges, and yearns provided by Diety - the prodding of the mind if you will - and the response of the mind which are described as faith and trust and then assurance of faith and truth. After the Spirit of Truth is released upon a world, normal minded children (and other primitives) naturally respond to the urges and impulses of the Adjutants and Holy Spirit to bring to mind the God Fragment TA and to then coparent the soul. The soul is the proof of the both the prodding and the response to it in mind.

The TA becomes the one who then adds a level of functional sophistication and personalization to the yearn or the hunger and thirst triggers which seek nourishment in the pursuit of satisfaction and happiness and transformation and that response begets personal revelation and truth which also nurtures and satisfies. And when hope, trust, faith, assurance, and truth discernment are sufficiently mature does the branch attach to the vine and the fruits of the Spirit come forth in abundance to share with all others.

I also agree that our personal worthy and meaningful religious experience and spiritization feeds the Supreme as it feeds and grows the soul and this relationship to Deity is a great teaching to embrace!


I think fears and anxieties + ignorance and prejudice conspire to deprive the mind of all this nourishment. Mind poisons prevent the branch's attachment and the fruits of the Spirit that require that attachment. We starve ourselves of that nourishment from the Spirit and only that nourishment provides peace, satisfaction, contentment, happiness, and joy!


The UB says some souls famish at the very bouteous banquet of life:

159:3.8 (1766.4) The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt—unbelief.

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159:3.8 (1766.4) The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt—unbelief.

WOW


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I think assurance has a particular property about it for us to consider....the more of it we receive the more assured do we become. To attain sublime peace and confidence in our status as faith children is not merely a one time event by any singular act of insight or faith or rebirth. The fruits of the Spirit come forth by the branch's attachment to the vine...it's current attachment and its health and vitality. The strength of that branch's attachment and the girth and health of that branch determines the flow of Divine truth, beauty, and goodness that brings forth fruits and nourishes that fruit.

Wisdom comes over time and by experience in the Spirit. So does fruit. So does assurance. Certainly do we feel and respond to such assurance upon every taste but the more we taste it the more nourishment we get and the stronger does that bond and that response become. There are those minds and souls which, over time, become self centered and twisted by the mind poisons which distract us from the spiritization of mind and the growth of soul and this attachment to the vine of love and life. And disconnect us from the faith and truth assurance that is our heritage and our normal situation as children of God. We are designed, built, and wired for our connection to the Spirit and this cycle of spiritual nourishment - urge/yearn, response, assurance, yearn, response, assurance, fruit, yearn, response, assurance....over and over it happens!


Thus the value of daily prayer and quiet time with the Lord as we commune and seek that presence and the assurance that delivers every day to us!


One of the most important features of the UB as a Revelation to me is that it is so re-assuring!! Those who read the UB and retain their personal gloomy outlooks and even can still express suspicions and paranoias about this friendly universe are completely defiant of this wondrous gift whose pages are filled front to back with glorious assurances of our source, destiny, and the love of our paternal Creator and rulers in this friendly universe!!

5:1.10 (64.1) The Father is not in spiritual hiding, but so many of his creatures have hidden themselves away in the mists of their own willful decisions and for the time being have separated themselves from the communion of his spirit and the spirit of his Son by the choosing of their own perverse ways and by the indulgence of the self-assertiveness of their intolerant minds and unspiritual natures.

5:5.13 (69.8) Eternal survival of personality is wholly dependent on the choosing of the mortal mind, whose decisions determine the survival potential of the immortal soul. When the mind believes God and the soul knows God, and when, with the fostering Adjuster, they all desire God, then is survival assured. Limitations of intellect, curtailment of education, deprivation of culture, impoverishment of social status, even inferiority of the human standards of morality resulting from the unfortunate lack of educational, cultural, and social advantages, cannot invalidate the presence of the divine spirit in such unfortunate and humanly handicapped but believing individuals. The indwelling of the Mystery Monitor constitutes the inception and insures the possibility of the potential of growth and survival of the immortal soul.

39:4.14 (435.7) The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them—advance in spirit status—by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always—in any sphere, in all of them—this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia.

111:1.3 (1216.4) Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.

111:1.4 (1216.5) Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.

130:2.9 (1431.4) The next day Ganid talked all this over with his father, and it was in answer to Gonod’s question that Jesus explained that “human wills which are fully occupied with passing only upon temporal decisions having to do with the material problems of animal existence are doomed to perish in time. Those who make wholehearted moral decisions and unqualified spiritual choices are thus progressively identified with the indwelling and divine spirit, and thereby are they increasingly transformed into the values of eternal survival—unending progression of divine service.”


:wink:


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"In those areas overpopulated now the situation will be dire eventually. Who knows when exactly but there are just far too many potential weak points across a spectrum of risks for such places. Those areas that have an overdependence on affluent living a similar situation is present. A wealthy mega urban area is a complex organism with high demands. Start cutting supplies and it will get ugly. Personally I would get the hell out of any mega urban region now while the status quo is more or less normal. We may be OK for a few more years but every year that goes by that population grows, climate destabilizes, the ecosystem declines, and the economy decays we are closer to an event like no one has ever known. It reminds me of time and getting old. Time speeds up for old people and the same can be said about a late stage civilization. The great depression was chicken ka kadoodie compared to what is coming someday." -Comment by 'Davy'

At this point fanofVan is primaily speaking about assurance of faith. What about assurance of science. It is difficult to accept the peace of your soul, looking forward to the life in the world to come, when our Urantia has been stressed so. What about scientifical assurance. How do you reconcile this? Do you not think that persons with larger family size, more land, has more advantageous "path to victory" or whatever, than the poor deluded masses living in cities?

171:4.7 Then turning to his apostles, Jesus said: “From olden times the prophets have perished in Jerusalem, and it is only befitting that the Son of Man should go up to the city of the Father's house to be offered up as the price of human bigotry and as the result of religious prejudice and spiritual blindness. o Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kills the prophets and stones the teachers of truth! How often would I have gathered your children together even as a hen gathers her own brood under her wings, but you would not let me do it! Behold, your house is about to be left to you desolate! You will many times desire to see me, but you shall not. You will then seek but not find me.” And when he had spoken, he turned to those around him and said: “Nevertheless, let us go up to Jerusalem to attend the Passover and do that which becomes us in fulfilling the will of the Father in heaven.”
(184:2.10) he had repeatedly denied his Master by the crowing of a woowoo indicates that this all occurred outside of Jerusalem since it was against the law to keep poultry within the city proper.

I mean what you say sounds altogether naive. I am not disputing the potentials you state. But certainly shouldn't more consideration be paid to how folks could be "led out of mammom" or whatever? And the actual directives that his Apostles, the branches, were given?

I am not trying to discount your assertions, but certainly the spiritual assurance should be able to recognise significant facts and deal with them at least? I see a generation of folks "bowing out" before the impending crises of our world take center stage. So go on. But you are leaving me to deal with these issues without perscribing the proper course. Maybe you sympathise maybe you dismiss my concerns as you cannot properly rationalise them, as you choose to believe these facts pose no actual reality that bear upon your spirit. But you should at least think about your grandchildren and greatgrandchildren who will inevitably mature into this "brave new world". What about the fate of the planet.

It is indeed some comfort that after the resurrection, I may be able to "choose death". But to "choose life" is much more effort of course, and the solutions of the worshipful man are not so "happy-go-joy" as you are wont to express, rather they pertain to practical goals of one who has "raised his estate" and perhaps has enough resource to share, rather this continuous "evangelical" promulgation spoken to a world population with 'doors for ears', meaning what channel to hear, and what can you say about the inherent spiritual dangers of this lifestyle.

It is the intellectual assurance, that Urantia Papers written before this times, so as to prepare humanity in the proper stewardship of the land, and to reject technocracy with proper syntax. Then it must be that the more controversial emoluments of the text be considered then applied practically, with mercy and justice. At least I would prefer it to the lukewarm false praises for reminders of the eternal life found in the text.

111:4.4 The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.

So what about sociological assurance, and what about philosophical assurance et cetera. How about we include "verity" into the consideration of assurance in order to expand the conversation.

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What do I mean verity into the consideration of assurance. Verity is the proof of assurance. And there is no other way I could explain that then a person operate based on legal precedence, history progress, and given an account for the facts, so as not to be called a thief in the manner of acquiring, or an overstater thumper.
An account for the genuine science and logical mathematics of his own proofs.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
"What do I mean verity into the consideration of assurance. Verity is the proof of assurance. And there is no other way I could explain that then a person operate based on legal precedence, history progress, and given an account for the facts, so as not to be called a thief in the manner of acquiring, or an overstater thumper.
An account for the genuine science and logical mathematics of his own proofs."

Hi SEla_Kelly,

Regarding "verity into the consideration of assurance", this short paper is my best attempt to explore the "assurance" we get from our various "intuitions of validity".

I'd love to get some feedback!

Nigel


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
"In those areas overpopulated now the situation will be dire eventually. Who knows when exactly but there are just far too many potential weak points across a spectrum of risks for such places. Those areas that have an overdependence on affluent living a similar situation is present. A wealthy mega urban area is a complex organism with high demands. Start cutting supplies and it will get ugly. Personally I would get the hell out of any mega urban region now while the status quo is more or less normal. We may be OK for a few more years but every year that goes by that population grows, climate destabilizes, the ecosystem declines, and the economy decays we are closer to an event like no one has ever known. It reminds me of time and getting old. Time speeds up for old people and the same can be said about a late stage civilization. The great depression was chicken ka kadoodie compared to what is coming someday." -Comment by 'Davy'

At this point fanofVan is primaily speaking about assurance of faith. What about assurance of science. It is difficult to accept the peace of your soul, looking forward to the life in the world to come, when our Urantia has been stressed so. What about scientifical assurance. How do you reconcile this? Do you not think that persons with larger family size, more land, has more advantageous "path to victory" or whatever, than the poor deluded masses living in cities?

171:4.7 Then turning to his apostles, Jesus said: “From olden times the prophets have perished in Jerusalem, and it is only befitting that the Son of Man should go up to the city of the Father's house to be offered up as the price of human bigotry and as the result of religious prejudice and spiritual blindness. o Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kills the prophets and stones the teachers of truth! How often would I have gathered your children together even as a hen gathers her own brood under her wings, but you would not let me do it! Behold, your house is about to be left to you desolate! You will many times desire to see me, but you shall not. You will then seek but not find me.” And when he had spoken, he turned to those around him and said: “Nevertheless, let us go up to Jerusalem to attend the Passover and do that which becomes us in fulfilling the will of the Father in heaven.”
(184:2.10) he had repeatedly denied his Master by the crowing of a woowoo indicates that this all occurred outside of Jerusalem since it was against the law to keep poultry within the city proper.

I mean what you say sounds altogether naive. I am not disputing the potentials you state. But certainly shouldn't more consideration be paid to how folks could be "led out of mammom" or whatever? And the actual directives that his Apostles, the branches, were given?

I am not trying to discount your assertions, but certainly the spiritual assurance should be able to recognise significant facts and deal with them at least? I see a generation of folks "bowing out" before the impending crises of our world take center stage. So go on. But you are leaving me to deal with these issues without perscribing the proper course. Maybe you sympathise maybe you dismiss my concerns as you cannot properly rationalise them, as you choose to believe these facts pose no actual reality that bear upon your spirit. But you should at least think about your grandchildren and greatgrandchildren who will inevitably mature into this "brave new world". What about the fate of the planet.

It is indeed some comfort that after the resurrection, I may be able to "choose death". But to "choose life" is much more effort of course, and the solutions of the worshipful man are not so "happy-go-joy" as you are wont to express, rather they pertain to practical goals of one who has "raised his estate" and perhaps has enough resource to share, rather this continuous "evangelical" promulgation spoken to a world population with 'doors for ears', meaning what channel to hear, and what can you say about the inherent spiritual dangers of this lifestyle.

It is the intellectual assurance, that Urantia Papers written before this times, so as to prepare humanity in the proper stewardship of the land, and to reject technocracy with proper syntax. Then it must be that the more controversial emoluments of the text be considered then applied practically, with mercy and justice. At least I would prefer it to the lukewarm false praises for reminders of the eternal life found in the text.

111:4.4 The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.

So what about sociological assurance, and what about philosophical assurance et cetera. How about we include "verity" into the consideration of assurance in order to expand the conversation.


I must PROTEST TO THE MODS....AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. How long must we suffer from this drivel and direct attack upon the Revelation we supposedly gather here to study??!! Please review the above and consider the lack of value such poisenous venom offers this community. SEla continues to vent irrational opinions which defy the UB and any potential for serious study or community.

First he is predicting, and not for the first time, cataclysm and impending doom in multiple forms. He preaches political issues long banned at TB for good reason. He totally hijacks and derails topics down endless irrelevant rabbit holes.

I am accused of being naive by a fearmongering and certified/verified wacko who tells me what I believe and rationalize and that I am indifferent to my own children and grandchildren and the fate of the planet for Pete's sake !!!!

He is comforted by the thought of his own future suicide and spreads gloominess about the inner life and immortal adventure while he warns us of the "inherent spiritual dangers" and "controversial emoluments of the text" - whatever bats**t crazy thing that is. And he warns us of the "lukewarm false praises for reminders of the eternal life found in the text".

And all this on the topic of assurance??????

He is obviously not here to study or learn and has no appreciation for or respect of the UB...no matter what he claims. A true pariah.

ENOUGH ALREADY!! When is too much enough around here!!???

:roll: :( =;


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:30 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I just wanna know who 'Davy' is. There is no author of the UB by that name. :badgrin:


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nnunn wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
"What do I mean verity into the consideration of assurance. Verity is the proof of assurance. And there is no other way I could explain that then a person operate based on legal precedence, history progress, and given an account for the facts, so as not to be called a thief in the manner of acquiring, or an overstater thumper.
An account for the genuine science and logical mathematics of his own proofs."

Hi SEla_Kelly,

Regarding "verity into the consideration of assurance", this short paper is my best attempt to explore the "assurance" we get from our various "intuitions of validity".

I'd love to get some feedback!

Nigel


Thanks for posting this amazing work Nigel. I hope this leads to much discovery and discussion here about the inherent connections to the Spirits which deliver assurances.

:idea:


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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
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Location: Nanticoke NY
I am sorry but even if filial piety is righteous and true, "one must be willing to foresake individual members of the family in order to be Jesus' disciple."

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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