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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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This brings up another point if anyone would like to discuss. If I'm off base then just let me know.

For the Christian the experience of salvation, the genuine born-again experience is first sublime and totally personal, as if the individual and who is presumed to be Jesus were the only individuals in the universe. For me personally it was more than a "bright light" or a spiritual being, it was just an all pervasive Presence whom I understood to be Jesus. Now I know He is Michael of Nebadon.

One if my early reactions to this Fifth Epochal Revelation is that the revelators seemed so... not cold, but maybe unfeeling in their mention of our human condition. Catastrophic events and the death of entire civilizations are just a blip on the screen for those who inhabit a virtually timeless dimension and have witnessed or know of the progress of millions of worlds. Personal loss, grief, guilt, regret, weakness, romantic love, all these deep temporal emotions we mortals share intimately, but as I understand these emotions are are not experiential for those created as members of a different order of being. Jesus has experienced the full spectrum of human experience in his Bestowal, so our genuine "contact" permits us the experience of being totally understood and totally loved by the Creator of all things.

But what happens after this initial experience is a complicated and often frustrating search for fellowship and teachers. The unfortunate contamination of the primitive "God requires blood for sins" doctrine is probably the most antichrist of all because of the distorted and fearmongering control mechanism it breeds. Also in most cases
the priesthood caste is not only perpetuated but commercialized and is promiscuous with pride and vanity. The sincere follower of the Master who wants to teach and strengthen others or feels called to be a leader is sucked into a world of superficial man-pleasing obedience "for the "glory of God" in the guise of true service and spiritual growth. One learns politics instead of spirituality and piousness instead of genuine service.

Of course ALL humans have to face these challenges in their respective realities, but I get upset by the usurping of His liberating message, and the manipulation of well meaning individuals by clever actors and con-wo/men.

As I understand it Truth Book's outreach is towards those with a Christian background, independent of religious upbringing and/or denominational dogma.

I believe that we will soon face a major exit from these denominations and churches as more and more people wake up to new realities, sincere folks who share this genuine experience I described at the beginning of this already too long post. How can we organize the care of these folks? Do we need to "care for" these folks? If so, how can we care for them without becoming contaminated by the enticing perfume of the cult of the personality?


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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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Well I am very confused about "contamination of primitive doctrine" I just do not know what you mean in that paragraph.

I also think that there is no logical reason to believe that as people do become disenfranchised from their native Christian Church, they would necessarily find the Urantia Book or philosophy. What reasons why you believe this is so?



If angeln are sympathizing with the struggles of mankind, then we must consider how their perspective. If higher sentience, then it is good so say, they might witness a greater range of possibility/potentialities. If higher witness of potentialities, then angeln might discernment of those mental circumstance (in the human mind) which are relatively unreal. If a person thinks that he will have a "bad day" and then proceeds to abuse every living thing in his path, he created the bad day as a tautology. So, we simply understand that in the patience and forebearance of wisdom, then there is withholding of parental attitude, namely approval or coddling, when it is time for the humans to accept their world circumstance without too much self-pity.

I interpret your impression as a demand that angeln see things from a human perspective, yet you must be willing to share the perspective of the one who understands, if you are the one who seeks to understand.


How do you like it if angeln had sworn to help you but ended up in a game whereby you demand obiescence. It wouldn't work. Angeln cooperate with those who cooperate with God. Angeln sympathise with those who try to understand God's intent, a type of sympathy which might be shared within the mystery of the Thought Monitor.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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Just to clarify: SEla_Kelly, you mention "angeln" several times in your post. I thought at first you must means angels, but you repeat the word too many times to be an accident … what is angeln?

Second, to Pethuel: Yes, TruthBook's focus is on "seeking Christians" i.e., Christians who may be dissatisfied with traditional Christianity and who may be led to a new perspective through the teachings of The Urantia Book.

I think the hope is that seekers will find a way of transcending the "God requires blood for sins" doctrine by discovering the God of love embodied in the life of Jesus, whose revelation of the Father makes such a doctrine completely inconsistent with reality.

In my view, if enough Christians adopted this new revelation of the Father, great change could be made in the Chrisitian churches...

maryjo606


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Well it is just my nuance, and you are correct the plural of angel. However, I have perplexity when I am referring to the relationship with an angel, who possesses the concordance with another angel, the way that angeln work in pairs, but share something which is a mindal concurrence. Is that one being or it is simply two separate beings who are sharing only one ultimate purpose. I cannot exactly qualify this relationship.

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Thank you SEla_Kelly, for this clarification. I guess it's a case of "whatever works" when attempting to process things for ourselves.

I suspect the book's comments on "kindred spirits" explain something of the relationship that angels have with one another. We humans also have something akin to that relationship with each other, in some cases...

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16:6.3 The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.


Thanks again...


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[quote="SEla_Kelly"]Well I am very confused about "contamination of primitive doctrine" I just do not know what you mean in that paragraph.

I also think that there is no logical reason to believe that as people do become disenfranchised from their native Christian Church, they would necessarily find the Urantia Book or philosophy. What reasons why you believe this is so?

[color=#4000FF]I believe it is so because I believe the more that sow seed the more seeds will sprout. And I believe the more that water that seed, the more fruit the seed will bear. Many people have cried out to Jesus in times of distress and asked Him to reveal Himself to them and to come into their lives etc. Most (but surely not all) of these people already knew of Jesus because of their exposure to some kind of Christian church that often had consecrated Sunday School teachers to present the idea of God and Jesus and general Judeo-Christian theology. Many children established some kind of relationship with Jesus, and whether shallow or deep that salvation experience is eternal I believe. I am only referring to people who come to know Jesus through some kind of Christian outreach or church or whatever you want to call it. I believe that any person who has had a sincere encounter with Jesus will eventually want to follow more closely. The Urantia Book provides solid footing for anyone seeking a way to get through the Christian phase and on to a new reality. The idea that the Creator of all things would demand suffering and the shedding of blood in order to ransom the condemned sinner is more than just a simple distortion. Millions of honest people have suffered thinking that they "sinned away their grace" and crucify Jesus every time they blow it. And because of this guilt these believers fall into the control of a priestly class that is primarily interested in temporal power and the worship of men. This is what I referred to as "contamination of a primitive (possibly Egyptian?) doctrine, that particular religious concept. I was so relieved to discover this and I believe many more will be relieved when they make that discovery too. [/color

I don't know if this answers your question or not SEla_Kelly, I hope it helps you understand what I am trying to say. I am wondering aloud I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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pethuel - let me assure you that most UB students I've known or known of over the past decades were N. Americans or Australians and Kiwis who attended a Christian church and/or who grew up in but no longer attended a Christian church. It is true there were exceptions and I think there are more and more exceptions as time goes on...UB students are now coming from many of the world's evolutionary religions. I think that almost all of them are truth seekers with open minds with an ability to transcend prejudice and doctrines in search of religious experience and truth and a great many were disappointed and disenfranchised and disengaged from any organized church or religion already and prior to finding the UB....which truly has a very interesting and consistent reputation for finding the student rather than being found by the student!


Since its publication the fastest growing group of Christian religionists in N. America and Europe and Australia/New Zealand are the "Nones" - those people who claim to be religious and believe in God, angels, heaven, etc. but are not-affiliated with any denomination. This is a trend which began with Martin Luther and Protestantism. The last centuries have seen an endless and increasing number of smaller and smaller and newer and newer denominations centered around ever more independent philosophies and doctrines....if all sharing the same Bible or some standardized version thereof. This is the natural evolutionary trajectory of religion.

The UB says there is only one true religion - the one that is lived by the religionist of faith in relationship with God. We may collectively agree on doctrines, creeds, ceremonies, and core beliefs...but we cannot possibly have the same religious experience as any other person!

Despite SEla's confusion otherwise, it is perfectly reasonable and logical for those who become disappointed and disenchanted with their denominational experience to try other denominations or to reject them all and go their own independent and personal way into the discovery of God and the building of that relationship in growing faith experience. It is true that many, like myself, may originally throw the god-baby out with the religion-bath water....but those who seek truth and listen to the small voice and hear the knock of God upon our hearts cannot long abandon God's whisper and revelation and assurance of His presence and greatness and goodness.

Your take on "priests" is quite accurate as well pethuel!! Priests are inevitable and they contribute to the evolutionary progress of a world...but much like slavery, priests are a primitivism that is merely less evil than its predecessors and not anything to perpetuate or depend upon for continued progress in planetary or religious experience and wisdom. All evolutionary religions are contaminated by "primitive doctrine"...or so the UB teaches us.

A key word search for "priests OR priest":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all


There are some interesting topics here at TB about interacting and remaining friends with Christians, especially the more fundamentalist and intolerant types for those who are interested...and Jews and Muslims and others too! Unfortunately, being a UB reader apparently does not relieve us all of our bigotries and prejudices. Unfortunate. Jesus gave us the example and the UB teaches us that all sincere religionists have much to share and learn from one another!

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2639

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4414

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=510

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1029

By the way...lots of UB readers still attend denominational churches and are active members of various congregations!


:wink: 8)


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maryjo606 wrote:
Thank you SEla_Kelly, for this clarification. I guess it's a case of "whatever works" when attempting to process things for ourselves.

I suspect the book's comments on "kindred spirits" explain something of the relationship that angels have with one another. We humans also have something akin to that relationship with each other, in some cases...

Quote:
16:6.3 The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.


Thanks again...



Thanks for the quote MaryJo, that is what happened in the 60s isn't it? It appears to be happening now as well, this "awakening"


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I hope so...hard to tell sometimes as the negative voices can be so loud. But I think the "children of light" are always looking for each other...someday, there will be a tsunami of goodness across the world! Maybe it's already started...

Quote:
180:4.5 Jesus looked down upon them all, smiled, and said: “My little children, I am going away, going back to my Father. In a little while you will not see me as you do here, as flesh and blood. In a very short time I am going to send you my spirit, just like me except for this material body. This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you.”


maryjo


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FanofVan "most UB students I've known or known of over the past decades were N. Americans or Australians and Kiwis"

and because of the missionary work done by these American based Christian churches there is a new crop of evangelical Christians here in Brazil and in other Latin American countries, disillusioned by the stiff formality of the Roman Catholic church folks were attracted to the happy singing and fellowship of evangelical style worship, gospel pop stars and their entourages, television evangelists etc.


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Yes. And Protestantism is rapidly expanding in India, China, SE Asia, and Africa as well! Fastest growing UB readership today is the youth of Latin America. The Mandarin translation is about done. Things are popping! Our world quivers on the bring we are told! The UB says the Buddhist faith is ripe for the Jesusonian message. The UB comes at a specific time and intersection of achievement and potential. The digital age will globalize the Revelation and the international student body faster than any other knowledge or group in our history. Very exciting times....we quiver!!!

Those who view and judge our world based on a N. American perspective and experience have a very local and recent bias that obscures the exciting reality of our world. It is the emerging countries that are most exciting and offer the greatest potential for revival and the metamorphic promise of the Christian into the Jesusonian.

The proclaimers of doom and gloom are such poor prognosticators and blind prophets. Time to get the nose out of the navel and get a life!! Such exciting times in our world today. What a vision of hope and so much love and truth in the youth of our 7 billion souls. The success of the Spirits and the Seraphim and the Most Highs is so real...for those with true vision and the ear to hear.

Really enjoy your voice here pethuel..thanks for such "assurance". :wink:

Bradly


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"which truly has a very interesting and consistent reputation for finding the student rather than being found by the student!"

that is an interesting point. A friend sent the UB to me "on a whim" and one day the doorbell rang and the postman delivered a box containing some books, some self-help metaphysical stuff and some health books and a plastic bound Urantia Book. Little did I know how drastically my life was about to change!


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I think there may be a topic here on How I Found the UB - Or Did It Find Me?

I've heard many such stories of the serendipitous and accidental discovery of the UB by dozens of students. Almost every book "found" the first 40 years of publication was given out hand to hand or was placed by hand in a library or book store by a reader. Commercial distribution only began about 15 years ago and free digital downloads just a few years ago...now the biggest source of and number of books distributed/disseminated.

I was living in a tent in an apple orchard on a family farm owned by a friend one summer reading Seth Speaks and attending an occasional white witches wicken/circle sponsored by my friend's middle aged Ozark farm gal who had 5 other locals in her coven...hahahaha....getting channeled readings of my past lives and destiny and spirit name and guide!! What a hippy hoot! Crystals, pentagrams, pyramid hats, the works!!

Went to a dinner party at a friend of a friend's and as I was leaving, the host went to his book case, pulled out Big Blue and said he wanted to loan me a book - we had just met that evening. It was a gift from his sister he had not read much so just a loaner....he said....here, read this, it's weird, and so are you, I think you'll like it! I read it in a few weeks, returned it and looked for another for myself for 2 years before finding one in a used book store. This was back in 1975-77 and UB's were rare. Read the UB for another few years before finding another reader and study group. What a long strange trip it's been!!


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yes, crazy stuff... the first time I saw the UB was in 1970, a friend had a copy, but I was a zealous new Christian back then and the UB rocked my little boat too much. when I finally received a copy a few years ago I promised to loan it to a good friend, and I started looking for another copy and right away I found one online in perfect shape, hardbound. So my friend got one and I got one too


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Upon further study of assurance - both faith-assurance (delivered by evolutionary religious experience by the Holy Spirit and Adjutants) and truth-assurance (delivered by revelatory religious experience by the God Fragment)- it is increasingly apparent that we are being provided a pattern for personal ministry and loving service and interaction with all other religionists. We too are to become and learn to be agents of assurance! Universe reality is itself assuring and confirming of truth, beauty, and goodness.


In our interactions with others do we confirm universe reality and our own faithful assurance of this friendly universe and God's profound and paternal love and mercy and patience and the evolutionary progress of our world and the safety of all creation and creatures in the universe? Do we share faithful assurance that is proven and demonstrated only by the sharing of the Divine Fruits of the Spirit - the only true evidence of our own religious experience and faith?


To accuse others of error or ignorance and to share our disappointments in any, some, or all others and to demand others measure up to our own levels of expectation and 'superior' understanding while we blame others for our own suffering or the suffering of others and to point out the errors of others in knowledge and belief - none of these are the caring sharing of our own fruits or own assurance.


How assured do we feel? What certainties do we have and feel related to God's love? Or are our certainties related to beliefs and knowledge which we think we should impose upon others who are lesser in understanding than us? Even those of us with this Epochal Revelation of Universe Reality are often too quick to share knowledge with and demand conformity by others rather than seek out ways to give and share a caring assurance of God's love and presence and our/their safety in this friendly and loving universe. We fail to find the truth and the light within others first to add to the assurance of faith and personal revelation each of us is connected to.


Too often do we presume that others need some form of conversion and salvation - when what is so often needed most is simply affirmation, reassurance, empathy, support, comfort, and the sharing of Spirit fruit. I think it is this need and perspective that Jesus presented in the parable of the beam in the eye and the Good Samaritan and the talents and the mill stone and his example of finding that truth which is held in common and adding to the spiritual experience of others rather than to attempt to change or remove something and the imperative to never diminish the faith of another in our efforts to minister, preach, or evangelize to others.


Love is never a criticism or a threat or an accusation or blame...and never will be.


So...are we confirmers and affirmers? For that is the pattern of reality. All else is but further error and the sowing of tares amongst the wheat I think.


Disclaimer: For those who may be wondering why the "whatever floats your boat" standard above is not my standard here at TruthBook, be advised that I believe this is a classroom and study group of a very specific book containing very specific facts and truths. The ministry mission here is to learn the contents of the UB and to share in that learning of knowledge and truth. This is not a place to minister or preach or evangelize or present theories or fables which contradict the text book we gather here to study....it is a place to learn a specific text. So those who disagree with the UB or who misstate or misrepresent the teachings or are here to save others or lead others to safety or convert minds and souls to your own beliefs, creeds, and doctrines should expect certain resistance and redirection....back to the text itself for confirmations, elaborations, or for corrections.


I certainly do believe and strive to assert confidence in our source and destiny and our rulers and this friendly universe ruled by love and mercy ministry and hope to demonstrate extreme tolerance of personal religious experience and personal faith in all others here...whether they believe the UB or not. My disagreements come with those who say the UB says what it does not or does not say what it does and those fellow students who misrepresent the contents either generally or in detail. After all, we are here to learn of that reality, that very specific reality, presented in a very specific book written with great specificity. Such study will challenge our preconceptions and reveal misconceptions - or conflicts and contradictions of personal perception and beliefs....can't be helped...it is what it is.


I don't believe TruthBook is Kumbayah Island where all crackpots are welcome, all opinions created equal, and anything goes. The study and accurate portrayal of the contents of the Urantia Papers is at the core of this corps of learners according to the Guidelines posted here. So whatever floats anyone's boat is fine and dandy...anywhere else. Been lots of divisive diversions presented here over the years but the student body has always prevailed in returning all topics and posters back to the UB...sooner or later. What an interesting place it has been and continues to be! Agree or disagree with the UB, all we can prove here is what it says...not the truth of what it says. That requires personal revelation...or so the UB says! Hahahaha!


Bradly 8)


(This post double posted - here and "Evangelism and The Urantia Bood" topic.)


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