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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
That is well-stated Alexandro, however you must consider to yourself if a person could fulfill that individuated destiny of the soul, without having done God's will! Here, you can see that it is only possible via personality unification of three existential Deities within the mind/soul of that individual, and if the human individual actually fulfilled God's will.

To fulfill your destiny and to do God's will, is the same ultimate act. One cannot fulfill one's ultimate destiny if one has not learned prudence in the supreme service.

"We all understand reality". I was referring to Urantian children, not all human individuals.

To state that 'the feeling' of assurance, or 'love' as means of conveyance assurance, is a diminution of the moral imperative. "Do ye God's will," or "Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven". If one is merely seeking God's approval (i.e. "Behold my Son"), one might forget the preparation of the Christ, before he began his career (i.e. "It behooves me to remain busy while I wait upon the will of my Father").

Rather, love may be some kind of assurance, but it is only the result of one's knowledge that one has actually, to some extent, fulfilled God's mandate that we become perfect. All-Prudent before All-Loving. It means that if you seek love as the purveyance of assurance, you would be prone to stumble against the goal of progress. And the delusion that "God loves me" can be a very selfish, confining, avaricious, and attenuative goal. Why? Because God is no respector of persons, and God must love every being in the same way!

And then you are biting into the exclusivity of sophistry in terms of Love. Who loves God the most! They must have real assurance! Maybe you see a commercial that convince you that you cannot love, or that those actors who are part of that corporation, are able to love better and more! Petter, by trying to 'win' the most souls into the kingdom of heaven, might have neglected the qualitative aspects of loyalty and devotion, thinking that his job was done when a soul was given into the hand of Jesus (this is only the beginning of prudence!). It strikes at the luke-warm notion, that the human individual is only required to believe (and then God does everything). And as we breathe in the modern day, it removes the reward for human initiative/effort (i.e. the fictional character Yoda's statement "there is no try"). Of course one must try!

Love as a supreme endowment, but in America the "Spirituality without Religion"ists have abandoned their families, and set upon a quest of destroying the human ego! Love becomes like a drug manifestible in a simulation, just puch enough buttons and unleash the excitement animation! It becomes a metaphor of physicality (i.e. Dopamine and Seratonin manipulation), and can lead to many faulty theories of human/psychological dependence!


Talk about sophistry...what an excruciatingly painful bunch of gibberish and malarky that defies the UB in its multiple contradictions of the UB. Your endless proclamations and theories are most "faulty"...indeed.

The most peculiar misrepresentations and complete distortions of "love" I ever read.

Very disruptive and inappropriate Stephen. It is a grave lie to say God's love is a "delusion". Such a strange claim. And Divine assurance is both a cause AND effect of spiritual progress. Surely I misunderstand your words.

But these words are clear enough:

0:1.15 (3.2) Deity is the source of all that which is divine. Deity is characteristically and invariably divine, but all that which is divine is not necessarily Deity, though it will be co-ordinated with Deity and will tend towards some phase of unity with Deity—spiritual, mindal, or personal.

0:1.16 (3.3) DIVINITY is the characteristic, unifying, and co-ordinating quality of Deity.

0:1.17 (3.4) Divinity is creature comprehensible as truth, beauty, and goodness; correlated in personality as love, mercy, and ministry; disclosed on impersonal levels as justice, power, and sovereignty.

1:0.2 (21.2) The myriads of planetary systems were all made to be eventually inhabited by many different types of intelligent creatures, beings who could know God, receive the divine affection, and love him in return. The universe of universes is the work of God and the dwelling place of his diverse creatures. “God created the heavens and formed the earth; he established the universe and created this world not in vain; he formed it to be inhabited.”

2:5.1 (38.6) “God is love”; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. “He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

3:4.6 (50.4) Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel—literally experience—the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father’s LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to lovethe Father in return.

3:4.7 (50.5) Finite appreciation of infinite qualities far transcends the logically limited capacities of the creature because of the fact that mortal man is made in the image of God—there lives within him a fragment of infinity. Therefore man’s nearest and dearest approach to God is by and through love, for God is love. And all of such a unique relationship is an actual experience in cosmic sociology, the Creator-creature relationship—the Father-child affection.

4.5 (94.7) As the Sons of God are engaged in the gigantic task of revealing the Father’s personality of loveto a universe, so is the Infinite Spirit dedicated to the unending ministry of revealing the combined love of the Father and the Son to the individual minds of all the children of each universe. In these local creations the Spirit does not come down to the material races in the likeness of mortal flesh as do certain of the Sons of God, but the Infinite Spirit and his co-ordinate Spirits do downstep themselves, do joyfully undergo an amazing series of divinity attenuations, until they appear as angels to stand by your side and guide you through the lowly paths of earthly existence.

12:7.8 (138.3) The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man present the paradox of the part and the whole on the level of personality. God loves eachindividual as an individual child in the heavenly family. Yet God thus loves every individual; he is no respecter of persons, and the universality of his lovebrings into being a relationship of the whole, the universal brotherhood.

12:7.9 (138.4) The love of the Father absolutely individualizes each personality as a unique child of the Universal Father, a child without duplicate in infinity, a will creature irreplaceable in all eternity. The Father’s love glorifies each child of God, illuminating each member of the celestial family, sharply silhouetting the unique nature of each personal being against the impersonal levels that lie outside the fraternal circuit of the Father of all. The love of God strikingly portrays the transcendent value of each will creature, unmistakably reveals the high value which the Universal Father has placed upon each and every one of his children from the highest creator personality of Paradise status to the lowest personality of will dignity among the savage tribes of men in the dawn of the human species on some evolutionary world of time and space.



8)


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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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It IS delusional, to think that "God loves me" because, often enough, that evaluation comes as an exclusivity. God loves me, more than you. Well, but God loves EVERYONE, this love that God feels towards me is an apersonal aspect of universal love. So, think instead how God must love that other person, whom you are upset with in your self-justification of that, and try to love that person too!

Oh wow, so we are actually in complete agreement. Thanks!

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
It IS delusional, to think that "God loves me" because, often enough, that evaluation comes as an exclusivity. God loves me, more than you. Well, but God loves EVERYONE, this love that God feels towards me is an apersonal aspect of universal love. So, think instead how God must love that other person, whom you are upset with in your self-justification of that, and try to love that person too!

Oh wow, so we are actually in complete agreement. Thanks!


Hardly....

There is nothing - absolutely nothing at all, not an iota - about the love of God that is impersonal or "apersonal"!!!

Please read the UB and text posted above. The all are only loved because the each is loved personally!! I am not loved because we are all loved but we are all loved because we are each loved first...it is very, very personal Stephen.

You invert truth and set it on its head...inside out and upside down. Down the rabbit hole of your looking glass perversions and distortions of reality and the UB.

Sad really... :roll:

God does love me...that fact and truth is not delusional. God's love is real and that Divine affection personally envelops me and all the ministering spirits deliver this embrace of God's very personal love of me in ways which brings assurance to me and to all those faith children who respond to God's presence and affection.

Or so I understand the teachings.... :idea: :!: :biggrin: 8)


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fanofVan wrote:

There is nothing - absolutely nothing at all, not an iota - about the love of God that is impersonal or "apersonal"!!!

I am glad that you have stated this because now we can clear up our misunderstanding: the Divine Minister's love for me, through the adjutant mind spirits, is not a particular or personal kind of love. The Divine Minister loves all mortal material creatures of space in Nebadon, equally. My wisdom, from what I have gathered and adapted, is something that anyone could have gleaned from experience as a man in the flesh of Urantia. Therefore, the Divine Minister's love for me, must be something real, in terms of how I would consider, that the Divine Minister would love, would seek to bring my own child closer to the Paradise Father.

If you are using love as a basis, then this is your own personal affectation, my brother. You are talking terms of your love, and not the Paradise Father's love which is inexpressible. God's love for you may be unknown to my, or maybe I cannot know that. What is want is not to know how much God has revealed to you in your own mind, but to respect the fact that God loves you, and each and every member of your household, and tries to offer you as much potential as you could possibly realise in the grand universe. Let's just be careful of that, and preserve the maximum potential of all creatures, especially those human individuals on our world Urantia who, unlike me, actually have an unbrokened chance to ascend to Paradise, there to choose the potential of human destiny that might only be known individually by the Paradise Father.

Do not stand in the way, or between the relationship of a child's belief in the Universal Father! That will lead to new and original means of progressive behaviours people actually finding the means to solve the problems that have only gotten worse in this current stage of global affairs, this generation. Let us only hope that the next generation who grows up after us will become far wiser than ourselves.

When you are saying this, this is your own personal love and adoration of the Universal Father, and it is an untrue and finite expression of the existential Deities actual personal affection for every sentient life being with the potential for eternal life. And since that relationship pertains to the individual being's own understanding of this Being, who we call the First Source, no one can attempt to invade others' those or to pry others' actual beliefs away from them, from their own realisation from faith.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:

There is nothing - absolutely nothing at all, not an iota - about the love of God that is impersonal or "apersonal"!!!

I am glad that you have stated this because now we can clear up our misunderstanding: the Divine Minister's love for me, through the adjutant mind spirits, is not a particular or personal kind of love. The Divine Minister loves all mortal material creatures of space in Nebadon, equally. My wisdom, from what I have gathered and adapted, is something that anyone could have gleaned from experience as a man in the flesh of Urantia. Therefore, the Divine Minister's love for me, must be something real, in terms of how I would consider, that the Divine Minister would love, would seek to bring my own child closer to the Paradise Father.

If you are using love as a basis, then this is your own personal affectation, my brother. You are talking terms of your love, and not the Paradise Father's love which is inexpressible. God's love for you may be unknown to my, or maybe I cannot know that. What is want is not to know how much God has revealed to you in your own mind, but to respect the fact that God loves you, and each and every member of your household, and tries to offer you as much potential as you could possibly realise in the grand universe. Let's just be careful of that, and preserve the maximum potential of all creatures, especially those human individuals on our world Urantia who, unlike me, actually have an unbrokened chance to ascend to Paradise, there to choose the potential of human destiny that might only be known individually by the Paradise Father.

Do not stand in the way, or between the relationship of a child's belief in the Universal Father! That will lead to new and original means of progressive behaviours people actually finding the means to solve the problems that have only gotten worse in this current stage of global affairs, this generation. Let us only hope that the next generation who grows up after us will become far wiser than ourselves.

When you are saying this, this is your own personal love and adoration of the Universal Father, and it is an untrue and finite expression of the existential Deities actual personal affection for every sentient life being with the potential for eternal life. And since that relationship pertains to the individual being's own understanding of this Being, who we call the First Source, no one can attempt to invade others' those or to pry others' actual beliefs away from them, from their own realisation from faith.


Text please!!!!???!!!!

God's love is personal no matter what you claim or how you distort the teachings. This love does not require nor depend upon the beliefs of any recipient. It is only universal by its individual distribution to each personality.

Another direct contradiction of the UB.

4.5 (94.7) As the Sons of God are engaged in the gigantic task of revealing the Father’s personality of loveto a universe, so is the Infinite Spirit dedicated to the unending ministry of revealing the combined love of the Father and the Son to the individual minds of all the children of each universe. In these local creations the Spirit does not come down to the material races in the likeness of mortal flesh as do certain of the Sons of God, but the Infinite Spirit and his co-ordinate Spirits do downstep themselves, do joyfully undergo an amazing series of divinity attenuations, until they appear as angels to stand by your side and guide you through the lowly paths of earthly existence.


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I am so beyond confused. :?

This excessive and disorderly overanalyzation is harmful for the well-being of the mind, Stephen! Pause for a moment and read the following:

Quote:
155:6.12 (1732.5) You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.

195:10.2 (2084.2) The beauty and sublimity, the humanity and divinity, the simplicity and uniqueness, of Jesus’ life on earth present such a striking and appealing picture of man-saving and God-revealing that the theologians and philosophers of all time should be effectively restrained from daring to form creeds or create theological systems of spiritual bondage out of such a transcendental bestowal of God in the form of man. In Jesus the universe produced a mortal man in whom the spirit of love triumphed over the material handicaps of time and overcame the fact of physical origin.


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To SeLA_kelly - Stephen:

Quote:
I am so beyond confused. :?

This excessive and disorderly overanalyzation is harmful for the well-being of the mind, Stephen!


Stephen, I hope you can take this comment to heart. I do believe you mean well, but you have a way of distorting things that is very difficult to fathom. Sometimes, the simple approach is the best approach, as in the quotes that Komposer cited above. The simplicity of the child's trust in its parent is what Jesus recommended for all of us. Oftentimes, it seems that you want to make the teachings far more difficult of comprehension than they need to be. Instead of that, please try and take counsel from those here who want to help you relax a little bit and simply accept the joy - and the gift -of your sonship, and of these supernal teachings.

Bradly goes way beyond the second mile in this effort to help you, and now Komposer is adding another voice of reason. I hope you can open your mind to allow yourself to just be a learner for awhile. Read the passages that run throughout this thread; heed the advice and the encouragement that is given.

Sincerely,

MaryJo


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Okay, but I would be remiss if I did not state that I have tried always in this forum to use the right and simplest nomenclature, that I have chosen the simplest form of logic to frame my thoughts.

1:7.1 an impersonal entity as the Thought Adjuster
2:1.7 the impersonal Mystery Monitors ... the actual gift of the great God himself sent to indwell such as the humans of Urantia
6:6.2 Deity may be personal, prepersonal, superpersonal, or impersonal, but Deity is never mindless, that is, never without the ability at least to communicate with similar entities, beings, or personalities.

If you let Bradly say that God's love is only personal, you are omitting how there is an aspect of the Divine Minister's love for all mortal creatures (the adjutant mind ministry) is impersonal, and there is an aspect of the Paradise Father's love for all beings (the Adjuster), said to be impersonal. I do not disagree that God's love can be personal, but I submit this view that an aspect of God's love is reservedly universal, or impersonal.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Okay, but I would be remiss if I did not state that I have tried always in this forum to use the right and simplest nomenclature, that I have chosen the simplest form of logic to frame my thoughts.

1:7.1 an impersonal entity as the Thought Adjuster
2:1.7 the impersonal Mystery Monitors ... the actual gift of the great God himself sent to indwell such as the humans of Urantia
6:6.2 Deity may be personal, prepersonal, superpersonal, or impersonal, but Deity is never mindless, that is, never without the ability at least to communicate with similar entities, beings, or personalities.

If you let Bradly say that God's love is only personal, you are omitting how there is an aspect of the Divine Minister's love for all mortal creatures (the adjutant mind ministry) is impersonal, and there is an aspect of the Paradise Father's love for all beings (the Adjuster), said to be impersonal. I do not disagree that God's love can be personal, but I submit this view that an aspect of God's love is reservedly universal, or impersonal.


Further contradictions of the Revelation and continued demonstration of Stephen's lack of understanding plainly written and frequently posted text. There is nothing impersonal about the Divine Affection of our God Fragment or the Holy Spirit.

Please quit preaching falsehoids here Stephen.

110:0.2 (1203.2) As far as I am conversant with the affairs of a universe, I regard the love and devotion of a Thought Adjuster as the most truly divine affection in all creation. The love of the Sons in their ministry to the races is superb, but the devotion of an Adjuster to the individual is touchingly sublime, divinely Fatherlike. The Paradise Father has apparently reserved this form of personal contact with his individual creatures as an exclusive Creator prerogative. And there is nothing in all the universe of universes exactly comparable to the marvelous ministry of these impersonal entities that so fascinatingly indwell the children of the evolutionary planets.

8:4.5 (94.7) As the Sons of God are engaged in the gigantic task of revealing the Father’s personality of loveto a universe, so is the Infinite Spirit dedicated to the unending ministry of revealing the combined love of the Father and the Son to the individual minds of all the children of each universe. In these local creations the Spirit does not come down to the material races in the likeness of mortal flesh as do certain of the Sons of God, but the Infinite Spirit and his co-ordinate Spirits do downstep themselves, do joyfully undergo an amazing series of divinity attenuations, until they appear as angels to stand by your side and guide you through the lowly paths of earthly existence.


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Assurance comes from doing God's will, assurance does not just come from a sentient being's ability to experience love. Maybe Bradly thinks that the experience of God's love comes from the individual having done God's will? But maybe God (the First Source) loves you if you can do God's will. The standard of love, as an experience of the sentient mind, in and of itself, being some kind of "assurance" of the human soul's faith, can be a stumbling block, because greater assurance comes from the finality achievement of fusion, for the ascender who becomes recognised by the Universal Father willing able and having chosen to do the Paradise Father's will on superfinite and potentially superabsonite levels of universe experience. I hold out for anyone who has the potential to do God's will, too; I also love people like that. But it is not enough to say "I am able to do God's will, and I love Him;" rather, because I love God and am able to do God's will, I assuredly realise that I should/must choose the highest moral value of actionable potential in my mind.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Assurance comes from doing God's will, assurance does not just come from a sentient being's ability to experience love. Maybe Bradly thinks that the experience of God's love comes from the individual having done God's will? But maybe God (the First Source) loves you if you can do God's will. The standard of love, as an experience of the sentient mind, in and of itself, being some kind of "assurance" of the human soul's faith, can be a stumbling block, because greater assurance comes from the finality achievement of fusion, for the ascender who becomes recognised by the Universal Father willing able and having chosen to do the Paradise Father's will on superfinite and potentially superabsonite levels of universe experience. I hold out for anyone who has the potential to do God's will, too; I also love people like that. But it is not enough to say "I am able to do God's will, and I love Him;" rather, because I love God and am able to do God's will, I assuredly realise that I should/must choose the highest moral value of actionable potential in my mind.


More falsehood Stephen...it seems endless...you obviously have no wish to learn or study the UB....so why are you here??!!

No one needs to know anything, believe anything, say anything, or do anything at all to receive God's personal love and paternal affection. Your claims are total distortions and misrepresentations of the Revelation and this cannot possibly be unintentional.

And fusion is not finality. Even more falsehood. There is no such thing as the "finality achievement of fusion". The love of God - the Divine Affection is never a stumbling block and Divine Assurance is always a welcome blessing to the tadpoles of time.

It is obvious your beliefs and anxieties result in a perspective that is contrary to and contradictory of the UB teachings. That is most unfortunate. The Papers were given to us to relieve such burdens and deliver the illumination of fact and truth and encourage us to trust God and this friendly universe as we traverse the pilgrim's path forward to Paradise.

2:5.9 (40.1) The Father’s love follows us now and throughout the endless circle of the eternal ages. As you ponder the loving nature of God, there is only one reasonable and natural personality reaction thereto: You will increasingly love your Maker; you will yield to God an affection analogous to that given by a child to an earthly parent; for, as a father, a real father, a true father, loves his children, so the Universal Father loves and forever seeks the welfare of his created sons and daughters.

5:6.9 (71.4) The bestowal of creature personality confers relative liberation from slavish response to antecedent causation, and the personalities of all such moral beings, evolutionary or otherwise, are centered in the personality of the Universal Father. They are ever drawn towards his Paradise presence by that kinship of being which constitutes the vast and universal family circle and fraternal circuit of the eternal God. There is a kinship of divine spontaneity in all personality.

5:6.10 (71.5) The personality circuit of the universe of universes is centered in the person of the Universal Father, and the Paradise Father is personally conscious of, and in personal touch with, all personalities of all levels of self-conscious existence. And this personality consciousness of all creation exists independently of the mission of the Thought Adjusters.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Okay, but I would be remiss if I did not state that I have tried always in this forum to use the right and simplest nomenclature, that I have chosen the simplest form of logic to frame my thoughts.


Much of what I read is not simple and very often the logic in them eludes me. And as Bradly repeatedly states many of what you say are misrepresentative of the UB teachings. For example, you say:

SEla_Kelly wrote:
[...], because greater assurance comes from the finality achievement of fusion, for the ascender who becomes recognised by the Universal Father willing able and having chosen to do the Paradise Father's will on superfinite and potentially superabsonite levels of universe experience.


I assume you are referring to the following UB quote:

Quote:
118:6.7 (1300.3) Volition, the act of choosing, must function within the universe frame which has actualized in response to higher and prior choosing. The entire range of human will is strictly finite-limited except in one particular: When man chooses to find God and to be like him, such a choice is superfinite; only eternity can disclose whether this choice is also superabsonite.


There is a misrepresentation or at least a misunderstanding here. The UB does not say that mortals can choose to do the Father's will on superfinite or superabsonite levels (we are finite after all. We cannot suddenly start acting as if we were Gravity Messengers, for example), but that "choosing to find Him and be like Him" constitutes a superfinite choice. Why? Maybe because such a choice can eventually lead us beyond finitude and in eternity maybe even beyond absonity. At least that is my interpretation, and because it is a conjecture of mine I am not stating it as if it were factual and also cite the relevant UB quote so that there is transparency and better communication and exchange of ideas.

Here is another very relevant quote to this:

Quote:
106:0.4 (1162.4) 2. Maximum finites. This is the present status of all experiential creatures who have attained destiny—destiny as revealed within the scope of the present universe age. Even universes can attain to the maximum of status, both spiritually and physically. But the term “maximum” is itself a relative term—maximum in relation to what? And that which is maximum, seemingly final, in the present universe age may be no more than a real beginning in terms of the ages to come. Some phases of Havona appear to be on the maximum order.


Anyway, when all is said and done...:

Quote:
196:3.35 (2097.3) And God-consciousness is equivalent to the integration of the self with the universe, and on its highest levels of spiritual reality. Only the spirit content of any value is imperishable. Even that which is true, beautiful, and good may not perish in human experience. If man does not choose to survive, then does the surviving Adjuster conserve those realities born of love and nurtured in service. And all these things are a part of the Universal Father. The Father is living love, and this life of the Father is in his Sons. And the spirit of the Father is in his Sons’ sons—mortal men. When all is said and done, the Father idea is still the highest human concept of God.


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The assurance of human destiny, or of God's love for the human individual, comes out of the experiencial realisation of love, and that one is a loving being. The assurance of the human soul, must come from one's experience of a loving God, characterized by the nurturance and honesty of a real human parent.

Think about this democratically. Do you vote for the candidate that you love the most, or should you vote for the candidate, in your assessment, has the best intention and ability, and the most agreeable purpose? Is the choice a matter of your affection or love for that person, a personality contest, or rather, do you base your actions rationally on an inner scale that involves prudence, justice, and your estimation of their sincerity?

Or, if you are a human father, would you feel more comfortable and confident, if you were to know that a daughter loved the man she wanted to marry? Or do you make your own assessment, of the worthiness of such suitor? Is he responsible? These are the measures of assurance: Nicodemus was given ample opportunity to inquire and to measure the prudence of Jesus.

In the end, I want to say, "I trust the Universal Father," not because I love him, but because He has done everything necessary to have prepared the way for the people of Urantia to ascend. I do not know the eventuational actuation of psychological maturation between this personal relationship of every human individual to the First Source (as represented by the Adjuster Fragment), but I feel assuredly of my mind in this sense: that the Fragment of my own mortal indwelling reveals to me this Universal Law, the law of every mortal being who has a soul like mine, to be loved and to realise that one is able to ascend and live eternally. So that if I ascend, it would only be more possible for others to do so, and to have greater potential of self-realisation in their own experience with God.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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 Post subject: Re: What is Assurance?
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
The assurance of human destiny, or of God's love for the human individual, comes out of the experiencial realisation of love, and that one is a loving being. The assurance of the human soul, must come from one's experience of a loving God, characterized by the nurturance and honesty of a real human parent.

Think about this democratically. Do you vote for the candidate that you love the most, or should you vote for the candidate, in your assessment, has the best intention and ability, and the most agreeable purpose? Is the choice a matter of your affection or love for that person, a personality contest, or rather, do you base your actions rationally on an inner scale that involves prudence, justice, and your estimation of their sincerity?

Or, if you are a human father, would you feel more comfortable and confident, if you were to know that a daughter loved the man she wanted to marry? Or do you make your own assessment, of the worthiness of such suitor? Is he responsible? These are the measures of assurance: Nicodemus was given ample opportunity to inquire and to measure the prudence of Jesus.


I'm just curious. What do you think "prudence" means? You've used it several times in this thread, so it is something you see as important. Can you provide your meaning of this word?

SEla_Kelly wrote:
.... So that if I ascend, it would only be more possible for others to do so, and to have greater potential of self-realisation in their own experience with God.


Stephen,
Your status as an ascender has absolutely *nothing* to do with anyone else's progress or potential. We each have our own individual path and destiny.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Okay, but I would be remiss if I did not state that I have tried always in this forum to use the right and simplest nomenclature, that I have chosen the simplest form of logic to frame my thoughts.

1:7.1 an impersonal entity as the Thought Adjuster
2:1.7 the impersonal Mystery Monitors ... the actual gift of the great God himself sent to indwell such as the humans of Urantia
6:6.2 Deity may be personal, prepersonal, superpersonal, or impersonal, but Deity is never mindless, that is, never without the ability at least to communicate with similar entities, beings, or personalities.

If you let Bradly say that God's love is only personal, you are omitting how there is an aspect of the Divine Minister's love for all mortal creatures (the adjutant mind ministry) is impersonal, and there is an aspect of the Paradise Father's love for all beings (the Adjuster), said to be impersonal. I do not disagree that God's love can be personal, but I submit this view that an aspect of God's love is reservedly universal, or impersonal.


Stephen - this quote does NOT say or infer that any of the Trinity are impersonal or that love is impersonal either. The God Fragments are pre-personal and are described in the quotes you reference above as impersonal....but the love they give us and the love given by Deity is all very personal indeed! Your premise is illogical and your conclusions are false...according to the UB. Divine love or Divine Assurance is not broadcast to the universe like sunshine or radio waves Stephen - it is a relationship between personalities and the Adjuster is an agent and agency of Divine Affection to each mortal so endowed. But every personality in all of creation is likewise loved by God personally and individually. And the second and third persons of Deity are very personal indeed. You still make false claims which defy the teachings and contents of the Papers.

Do you really not want to understand? Do you really wish to continue to contradict and defy the reality described in the UB? Such is certainly your right...although I wonder at the value of allowing such grotesque distortions and proclamations here at this gathering of UB students who sincerely pursue understanding of the contents of the Revelation....unlike you Stephen who only persists in defiance and distortions and disruptions. Unfortunate indeed!

107:6.2 (1182.4) The Adjuster is man’s eternity possibility; man is the Adjuster’s personality possibility. Your individual Adjusters work to spiritize you in the hope of eternalizing your temporal identity. The Adjusters are saturated with the beautiful and self-bestowing love of the Father of spirits. They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men. They long for the divinity attainment of your mortal minds that their loneliness may end, that they may be delivered with you from the limitations of material investiture and the habiliments of time.

107:7.5 (1183.7) Throughout a universe of created beings and nonpersonal energies we do not observe will, volition, choice, and love manifested apart from personality. Except in the Adjusters and other similar entities we do not witness these attributes of personality functioning in association with impersonal realities. It would not be correct to designate an Adjuster as subpersonal, neither would it be proper to allude to such an entity as superpersonal, but it would be entirely permissible to term such a being prepersonal.

107:7.6 (1184.1) To our orders of being these fragments of Deity are known as the divine gifts. We recognize that the Adjusters are divine in origin, and that they constitute the probable proof and demonstration of a reservation by the Universal Father of the possibility of direct and unlimited communication with any and all material creatures throughout his virtually infinite realms, and all of this quite apart from his presence in the personalities of his Paradise Sons or through his indirect ministrations in the personalities of the Infinite Spirit.

107:7.7 (1184.2) There are no created beings that would not delight to be hosts to the Mystery Monitors, but no orders of beings are thus indwelt excepting evolutionary will creatures of finaliter destiny.

108:0.1 (1185.1) THE mission of the Thought Adjusters to the human races is to represent, to be, the Universal Father to the mortal creatures of time and space; that is the fundamental work of the divine gifts. ...

Me here: No matter the meaning or attributes of pre-personal or impersonal in describing the Thought Adjusters, still are they the representative OF the very personal and very personality and source and giver of all personalities to all personal beings. So the love and affection we receive by, from, or through the TA's is very personal indeed! But there are other sources of the Divine embrace and affection and assurance. God also loves us and knows us through the personality circuit, and through the Son's spirit circuit, and through the Mother's mind circuit....each of those is connected individually to each personality, mind, and spirit.

Love cannot be impersonal according to the Urantia Book. It is always personal. It is inherently personal. It is by definition personal.

Your denials of the Divine Affection and Divine Assurance are very personal too....but those are personal only to you and of you and by you....those false beliefs are your choice and you have obviously made your choice to deny these realities and facts. The good news is that such false beliefs are but the mortal and temporal confusions and misunderstandings of your own mixed up mind....none of which prevents survival or soul growth or the embrace of spiritual truth.

But your endless posts here in contradiction of the text we share and study here together are vexing and appear to be an expression of your wish and will to disrupt things here and distort the teachings and cause confusion in others. I hope you do not succeed in such objectives despite your persistence to do so. Are you so indifferent to the teachings Stephen? Or just desperately stubborn and truly prejudice in your ignorance?

:roll: :-# :-$ =; :-s :!:

:wink: :biggrin: 8)

Bradly


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