Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4418
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Thanks Paul for such a patient and responsive reply. You have now written much for us to agree upon! I still hope for and anticipate more specifics about ACIM from such a devoted student of both it and the UB as to a more comparative analysis of the two. My time in ACIM was far too long ago and too brief to give it a fair summation or critique either one. I have offered my take on the important differences to me...source, perspective, and details. But truth is truth...no matter where found. And that and them which delivers or encourages religious growth and spiritualization, especially by faith and experiential wisdom, is something to support and provide opportunity for those in oneself or others.
Sincerity and agenda are not so very difficult to discern for the thinking and rational mind...and I think those should be the primary measure for one's personal response to all who purport to teach or preach or lead or serve. And certainly does self forgetting loving service exist in so many people and places in our world today for our personal inspiration and admiration and recognition...no matter our own religiosity and beliefs. Faith is faith. Assurance is assurance. There are those who promote anger and hate in the name of their gods and those who promote love, kindness, forgiveness, understanding, peace, patience, and tolerance. Which and who is to be embraced? It is not so difficult a choice to make.
I would recommend you refrain from "echoing" or parroting that for which you lack personal experience and knowledge. The echo of ignorance and impatience does not well represent truth or the parrot...but simply repeats and perpetuates the ignorance and impatience of others...unfortunate. Has the fruit tree "taken off" which has not only sprouted and branched but budded and flowered and born fruit? Indeed. Does its current size and yield limit its future yield and size? No. But one must await each season and the many cycles of seasons for the full maturity of the tree to be determined and appreciated. And does not that young tree deliver the seed every season for other trees to also sprout, branch, bud, flower, and deliver fruit. Yes indeed.
Mortals have such a brief life here on the worlds of our origination and yet we demand so much so quickly. This is not the WAY of the universe. Such impatience is immature and interferes with our vision, perspective, philosophy, and growth, or so the UB teaches. We do not see the orchard/forest for the trees nor the trees for the orchard/forest. We see what we wish to see and are blinded to the rest...or we can only see what others tell us to see....even worse! The growth of the Urantia movement is no secret nor difficult to research and measure. One who claims/admits to no personal knowledge or research of the issue might be more cautious in their criticisms and claims...just sayin'.
Ignorance of reality and impatience are not merely a difference of opinion or a different standard of measure. You insult the efforts of thousands of faithful servants of dissemination and students and believers of the UB by spreading such falsehoods and making irrelevant and inaccurate comparisons with new age pop psyche bubbles and an epochal revelation. Time will measure the success of the authors and the grantors of this gift for those who believe the words and teachings so gifted to our world. The seeds of truth are sown in the seasons of time to influence the mortal epochs of progressive transformation. They are not delivered by sign, wonder, miracle, or for the instant gratification of any generation....not even our own! I have great confidence in the celestials and rulers of our world...but many do not....shall their anxieties and disappointments be "echoed"?? Not by me.
There is no such thing as an "armchair warrior" either. Sorry but no way. Truth warrioring is not a spectator sport. I imagine you have misstated your own position in the matter. Engagement here and other forums is not passive. Teaching others and sharing one's light within is not passive either. Neither is raising children or serving one's community. Neither the UB or ACIM or any form of truth teaches or can be experienced by passivity...or mere reading or believing. Religion and faith are active and require expressions and experience and decisions which result in changes and transformations...or they lack any meaning, value, or truth. My hunch is your religious life is not spent in an armchair at all but are also a truth warrior in your way!
But your claim that the UB movement has failed to take off insults many thousands of truth warriors who have served many years developing infrastructure, programs, relationships, classes, forums, networks, events, and communities of readers, students, and believers for 60 years now. And the insult is not even factual or representative of anything more than ignorance and impatience. What have you or those you echo done to support this movement you find so disappointing? I find it ironic and problematic that such ones might criticize that which they have done nothing to support and build and disseminate themselves. I wonder how they justify 'sharing' disappointment with others? Do they hope to inspire and encourage? I also wonder how I would feel to know on the Mansion worlds that this epochal revelation found me, I studied it sufficiently to be inspired in my religious experience sufficiently to come to believe its claims of authorship and authority...but did nothing with such a gift and talent but hide it in hole in the ground or under a basket. Hmmmmmm....Oh...or if instead of that I criticized those who did serve its dissemination and complained about their progress in such loving service to a world. Hmmmmm....
Please just stop...it's embarrasing!
Now....I really do agree about believer bashing!! Shameful. Especially for those who read and study the UB. Please kick my butt whenever I am guilty. Now I am quite forceful and demanding of those who misstate, misquote, misrepresent, twist, torment, or otherwise make false claims about the UB or its contents. But TruthBook was created for new readers to interact with more seasoned students to make inquiries and to explore the teachings...not to be critized and told what to believe or how to act!! That is the standard of care and response we are given by the creators, hosts, and monitors here. I support that standard.
Here are some quotes to verify our instruction from the UB and in support of your perspective here Paul:
92:7.3 (1012.4) The many religions of Urantia are all good to the extent that they bring man to God and bring the realization of the Father to man. It is a fallacy for any group of religionists to conceive of their creed as The Truth; such attitudes bespeak more of theological arrogance than of certainty of faith. There is not a Urantia religion that could not profitably study and assimilate the best of the truths contained in every other faith, for all contain truth. Religionists would do better to borrow the best in their neighbors’ living spiritual faith rather than to denounce the worst in their lingering superstitions and outworn rituals.
92:7.4 (1012.5) All these religions have arisen as a result of man’s variable intellectual response to his identical spiritual leading. They can never hope to attain a uniformity of creeds, dogmas, and rituals — these are intellectual; but they can, and some day will, realize a unity in true worship of the Father of all, for this is spiritual, and it is forever true, in the spirit all men are equal.
155:6.12 (1732.5) You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.
155:6.13 (1733.1) When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men’s souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe. But what chance does the Father have to appear as a God of supreme loyalties and divine ideals in the souls of men who give little or no time to the thoughtful contemplation of such eternal realities? While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.
159:2.1 (1764.3) Jesus went over to Gamala to visit John and those who worked with him at that place. That evening, after the session of questions and answers, John said to Jesus: “Master, yesterday I went over to Ashtaroth to see a man who was teaching in your name and even claiming to be able to cast out devils. Now this fellow had never been with us, neither does he follow after us; therefore I forbade him to do such things.” Then said Jesus: “Forbid him not. Do you not perceive that this gospel of the kingdom shall presently be proclaimed in all the world? How can you expect that all who will believe the gospel shall be subject to your direction? Rejoice that already our teaching has begun to manifest itself beyond the bounds of our personal influence. Do you not see, John, that those who profess to do great works in my name must eventually support our cause? They certainly will not be quick to speak evil of me. My son, in matters of this sort it would be better for you to reckon that he who is not against us is for us. In the generations to come many who are not wholly worthy will do many strange things in my name, but I will not forbid them. I tell you that, even when a cup of cold water is given to a thirsty soul, the Father’s messengers shall ever make record of such a service of love.”
Religion in Human Experience
100:0.1 (1094.1) THE experience of dynamic religious living transforms the mediocre individual into a personality of idealistic power. Religion ministers to the progress of all through fostering the progress of each individual, and the progress of each is augmented through the achievement of all.
100:0.2 (1094.2) Spiritual growth is mutually stimulated by intimate association with other religionists. Love supplies the soil for religious growth — an objective lure in the place of subjective gratification — yet it yields the supreme subjective satisfaction. And religion ennobles the commonplace drudgery of daily living.
1. Philosophy of Religion
103:1.1 (1129. The unity of religious experience among a social or racial group derives from the identical nature of the God fragment indwelling the individual. It is this divine in man that gives origin to his unselfish interest in the welfare of other men. But since personality is unique — no two mortals being alike — it inevitably follows that no two human beings can similarly interpret the leadings and urges of the spirit of divinity which lives within their minds. A group of mortals can experience spiritual unity, but they can never attain philosophic uniformity. And this diversity of the interpretation of religious thought and experience is shown by the fact that twentieth-century theologians and philosophers have formulated upward of five hundred different definitions of religion. In reality, every human being defines religion in the terms of his own experiential interpretation of the divine impulses emanating from the God spirit that indwells him, and therefore must such an interpretation be unique and wholly different from the religious philosophy of all other human beings.
103:1.2 (1130.1) When one mortal is in full agreement with the religious philosophy of a fellow mortal, that phenomenon indicates that these two beings have had a similar religious experience touching the matters concerned in their similarity of philosophic religious interpretation.
103:1.3 (1130.2) While your religion is a matter of personal experience, it is most important that you should be exposed to the knowledge of a vast number of other religious experiences (the diverse interpretations of other and diverse mortals) to the end that you may prevent your religious life from becoming egocentric — circumscribed, selfish, and unsocial.
Oceans333 opened this discussion with this question above: "My question is can they coexist as in terms of truth?"
And I responded: "It is my opinion that truth is always compatible with truth no matter its origins, and that truth can be found in many places."
I appreciate Paul's contributions to our study of what the UB teaches us on the matter. And I do look forward to further consideration of those teachings of both the UB and ACIM and any other sources which are compatible and confirming or even in contrast but lead to further study and consideration. For by such study might we all benefit mutually by consideration of and discovery of truth, which will be confirmed by the Spirit when true and will change our lives when lived sincerely. While this is a UB study group, whatever leads to the study of the UB, including comparative analysis with other sources, has the potential of discovery, learning, growing, and gaining insight and assurance!! That's all good!
Bradly
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