Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:39 pm +0000
Makalu wrote:Diego wrote:Making an argument like that, and not bothering to defend it, is a sign of just how pompous you really are.
no, it's a "sign" that i've no interest in debating this theology with you...just as i said
Diego wrote:Its not silly at all. Its showing you exactly what you don't know about an institution that is over 2 millennia in age, and will be here like a rock long after you and I are both dogmeat.
erm no again, your inability to distinguish between the meaning of "can be" and "is", between potential and actual, doesn't really say anything at all about what i do or don't know about the institution. But you manage to make your point despite the lack of logic. g'luck
Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:26 pm +0000
Diego wrote:Or more likely your lack of ABILITY to debate this theology with me.
A distinction w/o a difference, as you well know.
Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:30 pm +0000
Makalu wrote:Diego wrote:Or more likely your lack of ABILITY to debate this theology with me.
look you can't goad me into rehashing the questions of my youth with you and i'm sure you have nothing to say that i've not heard before. and i knew when you said in your first post that you didnt want to debate the theology that you were lying...
A distinction w/o a difference, as you well know.
uhm what i know is that the tension, the difference if you will, between potential and actual is the underlying dynamics of the cosmos and not the dichotomy of good and evil expressed in church dogma. final answer
Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:47 pm +0000
Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:20 pm +0000
And yet, does not the UB itself function as Scripture, more or less, for you? You have just substituted one Book for another.
Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:01 pm +0000
Jim George wrote:And yet, does not the UB itself function as Scripture, more or less, for you? You have just substituted one Book for another.
Diego, the "truth" in your statements seems to be based on both scripture and tradition and in such an arena it is quite normal to assign your understanding of my "theology base" to the Urantia Book as an alternative, right or wrong, to your view. I would be willing to concede viewpoint equality if we were discussing theological authoritarianism. I am not attempting to do that so please appreciate that point.
My "theology" is not based on the Urantia Book exclusively nor is it based on any "scripture".
One of the most confusing issues in Christianity is that of authority. The Urantia Book explains that the actual authority of an individual's faith, trust, hope, salvation, journey, ascension to Paradise and any other expression of success relative to our eternal walk with God is always and only, personal experience.
Even your view of authority is based on the fact of Paul's experience on the Damascus Road. Had he not known that experience he would never have been in a position to write the Epistles. But the traditions of men, not the revelations of God are responsible for Christianity's view that personal experience ended with him, effectively sealing the book of spiritual history and forcing every believer who would ever follow Jesus to follow Paul as well.
Here is a hard saying for those who, like you, assume the value of this belief. It isn't true, it isn't real. I know from personal experience. The Urantia Book ascribes personal religious (spiritual) experience as the ultimate authority.
The Bible is a compendium of the stories of people who have had personal experiences with God as well. If it wasn't there would be nothing of interest in it. Once a person begins to actually experience the reality of God in their soul and matures to the point of actual comprehension of that living interchange, no amount of logic, fear of failure or trust in prior beliefs will undermine that experiential faith. I know because I know, period.
For me the church and tradition are to be respected as long as they do not interfere with my personal experiential walk with God. Just recently I was privileged to experience a friend take his first real step in his realization of the comprehension of personal experience. What a joy to see the freedom he has begun to realize. It was like watching a hot air balloonist release his ties. For him, God is his guide, his authority. Does that mean he doesn't appreciate scripture? Heavens no! He loves it more because he now is free to really explore it as a participant rather than an observer.
And just so you are aware, when I met Jesus I was an agnostic with no belief system what-so-ever. I had never heard of the Urantia Book and had never read the Bible.
I found and was found by God because I wanted to know the TRUTH. My discovery was not book related nor was it religious. I was simply willing to hear God's explanation of things. My conversion experience was the beginning of my exploration into religions and books about religions. I have attended Bible college and been a minister. I studied religion from the inside all the while knowing that what made any of the claims of any version of religion valid was personal experience on the part of one individual or another, as was mine.
So no I do not regard the Urantia Book as "Scripture" by your definition. But it is the Fifth Epochal Revelation and that ain't nothin'.
Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:47 pm +0000
Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:00 pm +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:(164:1.1) "Teacher, I would like to ask you just what I should do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answered, "What is written in the law and the prophets; how do you read the Scriptures?" The lawyer, knowing the teachings of both Jesus and the Pharisees, answered: "To love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and your neighbor as yourself." Then said Jesus: "You have answered right; this, if you really do, will lead to life everlasting."
There isn't anything more to it than that Diego. And if you really do it, you become certain that it is true.
Because personally experiencing this love with God has the authority that just reading scripture or text lacks.
Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:05 pm +0000
Diego wrote:So... your point?
Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:32 am +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:Diego wrote:So... your point?
The authority of personal spiritual experience always trumps the so-called authority of scripture or creed. This is why certain individuals (prophets) were always fearless to authoritatively reveal the realities of God, which usually led the church to murder them. This is the beauty of the Urantia Book by the way, it reveals but can't be murdered.
Diego, the authority of what we're discussing here will only become real, because of what you do, unchurched as you say.
Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:35 am +0000
Diego wrote:Now, I do NOT begin to dispute with you that a man may have personal experiences with God.To deny that would just be the height of stupidity. But those experiences must be within the discipline of the Church.
Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:22 am +0000
Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:25 am +0000
Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:51 am +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:Diego wrote:Now, I do NOT begin to dispute with you that a man may have personal experiences with God.To deny that would just be the height of stupidity. But those experiences must be within the discipline of the Church.
Diego, church discipline burdens. Self-discipline sets you free.
If you're content with your belief, if your deepest questions have been adequately addressed by your church affiliation, then God has blessed you. And if that's the case then you don't understand what TUB is, what it says, or why it's here and are therefore unqualified to critique it intelligently because your vision is limited. Therefore to condemn or disparage it to its believers is evidence of a form of spiritual immaturity. God loves the immature as well as the more mature but mortals are challenged when confronted in such a manner.
Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:30 am +0000