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Rexford wrote:
"Making mistakes is human and part the beauty of having been born imperfect. Perfect beings envy our ability to make mistakes."


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Greetings Louis,

You do know that there is a positive form of envy and jealousy, right? One might say, "I envy your courage." It indicates a longing for something worthwhile. The following quote describes celestials who envy us lowly mortals.

On the mansion worlds I have often seen these dignified officers of the high courts of the superuniverse look so longingly and appealingly at even the recent arrivals from the evolutionary worlds of space that one could not help realizing that these possessors of nonexperiential trinitization really envied their supposedly less fortunate brethren who ascend the universal path by steps of bona fide experience and actual living. Notwithstanding their handicaps and limitations they are a wonderfully useful and ever-willing corps of workers when it comes to the execution of the complex administrative plans of the superuniverse governments. 22:9:8

Elsewhere we are told that God is not jealous OF us, but jealous FOR us:

All too long has man thought of God as one like himself. God is not, never was, and never will be jealous of man or any other being in the universe of universes. Knowing that the Creator Son intended man to be the masterpiece of the planetary creation, to be the ruler of all the earth, the sight of his being dominated by his own baser passions, the spectacle of his bowing down before idols of wood, stone, gold, and selfish ambition — these sordid scenes stir God and his Sons to be jealous for man, but never of him. 4:3:1

Respectfully,
Rexford


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MannyC wrote:
Rexford wrote:
"Making mistakes is human and part the beauty of having been born imperfect. Perfect beings envy our ability to make mistakes."


We are born perfecting, not imperfect. We are a verb, not an adjective. We are as God created us.


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Except God did not create us....as one might only know by reading the factual presentation of actual universe reality. But some care nothing for reality, just pontification.

Good grief.

:roll:


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fanofVan wrote:
Except God did not create us....as one might only know by reading the factual presentation of actual universe reality. But some care nothing for reality, just pontification.

Good grief.

:roll:



1:0.1 THE UNIVERSAL FATHER is the God of all creation, the First Source and Center of all things and beings. First think of God as a creator, then as a controller, and lastly as an infinite upholder. The truth about the Universal Father had begun to dawn upon mankind when the prophet said: “You, God, are alone; there is none beside you. You have created the heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their hosts; you preserve and control them. By the Sons of God were the universes made. The Creator covers himself with light as with a garment and stretches out the heavens as a curtain.” Only the concept of the Universal Father—one God in the place of many gods—enabled mortal man to comprehend the Father as divine creator and infinite controller.


7.22 20. Only a poet can discern poetry in the commonplace prose of routine existence.


The letter of the law is a stumbling block for you, Bradly. You have no poetry in your heart. You just have the dry, commonplace prose of facts. God Grieves for you.


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The floor belongs to him who speaks for God.


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Unity not uniformity.


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Greetings nod,

Is this a platitude, a cliché, a truism, a banality, an old chestnut or a bromide?

nodAmanaV wrote:
Unity not uniformity.


It seems to me that the Revelation recommends a little of both:

The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience--uniformity of destiny--making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. 155:6:9

What is your insight? Is it uniform with mine? Obviously your out-sight (viewpoint) will be different, but insight is the same, because spiritual insight is the same as God-consciousness. Either you are or you are not.

7. To increase his spiritual insight — God-consciousness. 91:7:12

Although God-consciousness is the same for all of us, experience with God (the Adjuster), is different. This is called personal religious experience, which can be shared, but unless someone has had a similar experience, it will not make sense. It will not be convincing.

Your only assurance of a personal God consists in your own insight as to your belief in, and experience with, things spiritual. To all of your fellows who have had a similar experience, no argument about the personality or reality of God is necessary, while to all other men who are not thus sure of God no possible argument could ever be truly convincing.101:2:16

Perhaps your constant criticism of people on this forum and what they do here is due to the fact that you are looking for people with similar personal religious experience? That is just a suggestion.

Regards,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
Perhaps your constant criticism of people on this forum

Ouch, cut again. Another lasting impression of Friendship. Who needs enemies?


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Perfect beings are capable of divine qualities. In the Olden Testament of the Bible, we have read that the Hebraic concept of Deity consists of sometime "angry", "jealous", or "wrathful" God, but this was subject to the behaviours of the culture, and the interpretation of the prophet.


I say that "Jealousy" can be a truly divine quality of perfect beings who work with Urantians. It is only a relative quality. Angels do not become jealous for themselves and what they could possess, but these beings are jealous on behalf of God and on behalf of the individual's ultimate potential. "Jealous" that you could do better. The urge for human perfection, unity with God, causes the type of jealousy that in terms of personality may be considered self-defense. Such jealousy does not pertain to what a person has, or who a person is, but the loyalties and efforts of an individual. This type of jealousy is subject to human error and does not reactively punish, but is of the admonishing type and is revealed when the human individual is willing to see the divine "what could have been." That is what I think.

Envy, no. Envy, you would say, is an imperfect quality. Envy is a sign of diminution, self-reduction, but not the supplicative type. There is a type of admiration, brotherly, that appreciates the better qualities of others without harmful intent. The fatherly admiration does not even place comparison.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Greetings nod,

nodAmanaV wrote:
Ouch, cut again. Another lasting impression of Friendship. Who needs enemies?


Again, you "read into" what I wrote. It was not meant disrespectfully. I suggested that the reason you are so unhappy with some folks here is that you're having a hard time finding someone with a similar personal religious experience. You do admit that you criticize anyone who wants to study words, am I right?

You may not know this, but people learn in different ways. Jim George has told us that he learns through pictures, and words that paint pictures. Some people learn best from aural stimuli, what they hear makes the most sense to them. Some people learn with their body through the senses, others learn through abstract thinking such as logic and mathematics. There are other people who are very social and learn best from other people.Then there are the verbal learners, those who prefer words; they learn best from reading and writing.

You might find all types of people here, but for some reason you, Louis and Jim are waging war against verbal learners. I would like to know why? My guess is that you might prefer the social learning option, although I can't say I know you well enough to know for sure. My suggestion is that perhaps you make verbal learners, like myself, look like losers because it is not part of your personal religious learning experience. If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry.

Regards,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
My suggestion is that perhaps you make verbal learners, like myself, look like losers because it is not part of your personal religious learning experience.

I'm sorry Rexford, now that I know you spent two more years than I've been alive on the planet reading the Urantia Book, I must factor in your probable point of view, because that's how you make statements in response to what I post. That I'm a Urantia Book loser. Not up to par. At least not 60 years par. Your superior time spent with the words are commendable. But please, do you really need to beat me up because you haven't gotten over the generation gap yet?

My dad (the high priest of atheism) is about your age, and he still beats me up too when I tell him anything that isn't in his book. It's really weird for me to now see the inbetween of two high priests (don't take offense, it's a manner of speaking), one from one end, and one from the other. Don't go running away with this Rexford, I don't know you, except for how you present yourself in this forum. And knowing you're a 60 year reader has sharpened my understanding of you and how it no doubt motivates your manner.

I see things much like some of the others here do, and I'm here to find out what my Urantia Book reading brothers and sisters have experienced in life, and hopefully learn something else about what I've been reading for the last 34 years. I know what the book says, which makes me very interested in my fellow man and especially what he's learned from the book and how it's influenced the growth of his or her religious life and experience.

With every kernel the likes of your type of person (I'm a very different type than you) allows me to see, I learn something about what the book DOESN'T say and that's very valuable. You're my elder Rexford, and although I grew up in the dope smoking rebellious sixties, my childhood experience burned in me always to be loyal and respectful to my elders. And I am. That's why when my dad tells me I'm wrong about believing in God, and he gets in that zone where he knows I'm onto something he just doesn't get, I back off. He's my brother too you know. Because he may not have the tools to work with that I have, but he has tools and it's not my business how he uses them. If he's using his pick axe digging a tunnel in the wrong direction I couldn't stop him if I tried. Only co-operation with God can do such a thing. If he's digging the wrong way.

I never demand that my dad provide me an explanation why he believes that God doesn't exist. Because as my elder, he provides me something much more important. An assurity that the reality of my inner experience with my Heavenly Father, is very much facilitated by the presence in my life of knowing the greater life experiences of my elders. And I cherish that, because without you whippersnappers, where would I be?

Thank you.


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MannyC wrote:
The letter of the law is a stumbling block for you, Bradly. You have no poetry in your heart. You just have the dry, commonplace prose of facts. God Grieves for you.


fanofVan wrote:
The floor belongs to him who speaks for God.


The Universe belongs to him who speaks with God. You are afflicted and God the Father shares in that affliction. He longs that you speak with Him. Ask Him who I am and He will tell you.


3:6.6 Does the Paradise Father suffer? I do not know. The Creator Sons most certainly can and sometimes do, even as do mortals. The Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit suffer in a modified sense. I think the Universal Father does, but I cannot understand how; perhaps through the personality circuit or through the individuality of the Thought Adjusters and other bestowals of his eternal nature. He has said of the mortal races, “In all your afflictions I am afflicted.” He unquestionably experiences a fatherly and sympathetic understanding; he may truly suffer, but I do not comprehend the nature thereof.


Rexford wrote:
It seems to me that the Revelation recommends a little of both:

The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience--uniformity of destiny--making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. 155:6:9


Read this again. I believe it makes the case for what nod has written. Destiny must be uniform because there is only one destiny for all. Uniformity of insight is singular because there is but one God, and that God is Spirit. Unity means oneness. Uniform means one form.


Rexford wrote:
What is your insight? Is it uniform with mine?
The question is whether you have the insight or just the facts of it.


Rexford wrote:
Although God-consciousness is the same for all of us, experience with God (the Adjuster), is different. This is called personal religious experience, which can be shared, but unless someone has had a similar experience, it will not make sense. It will not be convincing.


It will not be convincing if there is no experience with your TA either.


Rexford wrote:
Your only assurance of a personal God consists in your own insight as to your belief in, and experience with, things spiritual. To all of your fellows who have had a similar experience, no argument about the personality or reality of God is necessary, while to all other men who are not thus sure of God no possible argument could ever be truly convincing.101:2:16

Perhaps your constant criticism of people on this forum and what they do here is due to the fact that you are looking for people with similar personal religious experience? That is just a suggestion.


Not similar experience, but any experience at all. When anyone hints at this personal religious experience the accusation of channeling is hurled.
Theory is of no use. Academic banter is not a substitute for actual experience.

Rexford wrote:
Again, you "read into" what I wrote. It was not meant disrespectfully. I suggested that the reason you are so unhappy with some folks here is that you're having a hard time finding someone with a similar personal religious experience. You do admit that you criticize anyone who wants to study words, am I right?


We know that you are nothing if not respectful because you sign off your posts, "Respectfully". I think that perhaps nod is dismayed at anyone who wants to worship revelation as the absolute truth. You admit to wanting to study God. God is known if loved. False gods are unforgiving and this is terrifying.


Rexford wrote:
You may not know this, but people learn in different ways. Jim George has told us that he learns through pictures, and words that paint pictures. Some people learn best from aural stimuli, what they hear makes the most sense to them. Some people learn with their body through the senses, others learn through abstract thinking such as logic and mathematics. There are other people who are very social and learn best from other people.Then there are the verbal learners, those who prefer words; they learn best from reading and writing.


The thing IS that God must be loved to be known. There is no learning to love God, there is loving God because He IS. He IS. He is love. He is Spirit. The only words He could cause it to be said, "I AM, that I AM".

182:1.9 The Master, during the course of this final prayer with his apostles, alluded to the fact that he had manifested the Father's name to the world. And that is truly what he did by the revelation of God through his perfected life in the flesh. The Father in heaven had sought to reveal himself to Moses, but he could proceed no further than to cause it to be said, “I AM.” And when pressed for further revelation of himself, it was only disclosed, “I AM that I AM.”

Spend 60 years studying these words if you will. Their meaning and value are beyond comprehension.


Rexford wrote:
My suggestion is that perhaps you make verbal learners, like myself, look like losers because it is not part of your personal religious learning experience.


Do you lack self esteem or self respect? Is vanity making you concerned about appearing like a loser? Verbal learners are handicapped. They lack touch and feeling. They cannot see past the words and that is blinding.


Are you envious or jealous of nod's personal religious experience?


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Greetings nod,

nodAmanaV wrote:
My dad (the high priest of atheism) is about your age, and he still beats me up too when I tell him anything that isn't in his book.


I am not your Dad.

nodAmanaV wrote:
Your superior time spent with the words are commendable. But please, do you really need to beat me up because you haven't gotten over the generation gap yet?


Again, you "read into" what I said. Mentioning the fact that I have been reading the Revelation for 60 years was to put across the point that I am always finding something new. It had nothing to do with you at all. It was about the value of reading and studying. Here's what I said:

How many people have misread it, missed entire pieces of it, used the wrong definition for a word, or failed to tie parts of it together? Too many to mention. In addition, there are many times when a second or third read uncovers previously unnoticed material. Even after almost sixty years of reading, I continue to find new material I had overlooked. So no, there is no way anyone can say that if they read it they know it.

Nothing was about you, it was about the misunderstanding that if you read the book you automatically know all there is to know that's in it. The point is that there is so much in it that a whole lifetime of reading will probably not be sufficient. How can you take such huge offense at that?

Did I imply superiority over being old? I did not. Logic can only lead you to one place, and that place is that after sixty years, there are always new things to discover. There you have it. There is nothing superior about that at all. Not that I can see. The Revelation is a gift and it is a gift that keeps on giving. It is supposed to last a millennium, which means it must have enough to feed hungry souls for a very long time. It has been feeding mine with truth for sixty years. Sorry if that bothers you so much.

Regards,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
I am not your Dad.

You should count your lucky charms for that Rexford. Without him ever saying it directly, I was my dad's first born son from hell.

"It was long a prevalent practice for fathers, at times of great emotional stress, to sacrifice their first-born sons."

And if it were a more primitive age, he would have roasted me over a fire and had me for lunch too.

I get where you're coming from though, with finding things overlooked. For me it isn't that I missed that the book said this or that. Rarely do I say "hey, I never read that before". I don't have a photographic memory, I can't quote chapter and verse without a computer, but I can read normally and my brain will log what I read as a memory. It's in the meaning of what I read that I realize there were things that were overlooked. There also occurs an immediate upset in value too.

However I will admit that there are many terms used by the revelators such as midsoniter, absonite, gravita, and the like that are interesting but don't intrigue me all that much. Part 4 is by far the most compelling. What goes on with God the Sevenfold has much less appeal. To me, understanding the mechanics of spirit is similar to understanding how my car's engine works, if you'll allow me to put it that way. It's handy, especially when I need to discuss what's wrong with my profit motivated mechanic (I don't like being overcharged), but otherwise I just drive my car to where I need to go without thinking about how it all works.

Rexford wrote:
Did I imply superiority over being old?

I did not take it that way. Like it's becoming for me, old is a problem. I have often wondered what it would've been like to have discovered the book when you did in '56, but when I discovered it in '82, I could not believe it was such an unknown literary work. On the other hand, that in and of itself, validated its authenticity.

What a weird and wonderful thing, the Urantia Book.


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