Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000 Posts: 818
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Greetings Louis,
MannyC wrote: I did not agree to use the definition provided.
That makes it harder to communicate Louis. While we are studying the Urantia Book, why not use the definitions in the book?
MannyC wrote: Rexford wrote: Where do the personalities of God the Sevenfold reside then? It says in the following quote that God the Sevenfold is Deity personalized in time and space. God the Sevenfold consists of actual personalities. Where do they reside? Are they only on Paradise? I don't think so.
There is only three places in The Master Universe where personalities can reside. Paradise, Havona, and time-space. The Holy Trinity can only be stationary in Paradise.
Louis, your answer has nothing to do with my question. I asked where the personalities of God the Sevenfold reside? God the Sevenfold is not the Trinity. God the Sevenfold is personalized, actual personalities. Where are they?
5. God the Sevenfold — Deity personality anywhere actually functioning in time and space. The personal Paradise Deities and their creative associates functioning in and beyond the borders of the central universe and power-personalizing as the Supreme Being on the first creature level of unifying Deity revelation in time and space. This level, the grand universe, is the sphere of the time-space descension of Paradise personalities in reciprocal association with the time-space ascension of evolutionary creatures. 0:2:16
God the Sevenfold is more than functioning Trinity. There is actual time-space descension of these personalities. Where do they go? Perhaps in the seven superuniverses?
MannyC wrote: The Adjusters do not enter time-space.
They certainly do. This quote says that God is actually present ON the worlds of space as the Adjuster.
Although the Universal Father is personally resident on Paradise, at the very center of the universes, he is also actually present on the worlds of space in the minds of his countless children of time, for he indwells them as the Mystery Monitors. The eternal Father is at one and the same time farthest removed from, and most intimately associated with, his planetary mortal sons. 107:0:1
We know very little concerning their careers until they arrive on the planets of time to indwell human minds,- 107:1:3
And it is entirely possible that an Adjuster could be roaming the master universe simultaneously with being at one with the omnipresent Father. 107:2:5
MannyC wrote: Havona is at the nucleus of every ultimaton in the Universe of Universes. Where ever there exists an ultimaton, Havona and Diviningtion are at the center of the Ultimaton.
You still have not produced a quote stating that. I, on the other hand, have given you a quote that states that Paradise is in the nucleus of every ultimaton. I am waiting and until you produce a quote I have to assume your words are pure fabrication. You say that you cannot have Paradise without Havona, but that has nothing to do with the ultimaton. The ultimaton is part of material matter. Nether Paradise is the pattern source for all matter, not Havona.
Ultimatonic matter - the prime physical units of material existence, the energy particles which go to make up electrons.42:3:3 But there is something of mystery associated with the universal force-charge of space; we quite understand the organization of the material creations from the ultimatonic stage forward, but we do not fully comprehend the cosmic ancestry of the ultimatons. We are confident that these ancestral forces have a Paradise origin because they forever swing through pervaded space in the exact gigantic outlines of Paradise. 15:4:1 Any and all that responds to the material-gravity circuit centering in nether Paradise, we call matter — energy-matter in all its metamorphic states.0:6:1
MannyC wrote: When an adjuster 'leaves' Divinington, they are already everywhere there is an ultimaton, they do not move.
What does a piece of matter have to do with Adjusters who are spirit? Adjusters descend. Descending requires motion. The definition of the word descend is to move downward. The Adjusters move downward to the planets of time and space and they reside ON them IN the minds of their creatures. That does not mean that they are not simultaneously with the Father as quote 107:2:5 states. Presumably it is due to the personality circuit.
In the universes God the Father is, in potential, the overcontroller of matter, mind, and spirit. Only by means of his far-flung personality circuit does God deal directly with the personalities of his vast creation of will creatures, but he is contactable (outside of Paradise) only in the presences of his fragmented entities, the will of God abroad in the universes. This Paradise spirit that indwells the minds of the mortals of time and there fosters the evolution of the immortal soul of the surviving creature is of the nature and divinity of the Universal Father. 1:3:6
MannyC wrote: Havona has no position in space.
I get the impression that you think Havona and the Isle of Paradise are one and the same thing. They are not. Havana is the universe that surrounds the Isle of Paradise. The Isle of Paradise is stationary; Havona moves. Paradise has no position in space, but Havona does, because it is in space and it moves.
Paradise is the geographic center of infinity; it is not a part of universal creation, not even a real part of the eternal Havona universe. We commonly refer to the central Isle as belonging to the divine universe, but it really does not. Paradise is an eternal and exclusive existence. 11:9:2
The central universe whirls around the stationary Isle of Paradise in one vast plane, 14:1:10
MannyC wrote: We do not know if the mind is in time-space, the brain certainly is.
Yes we do know. In fact we know that mind is both time and space bound, time less than space. The timelessness of infinite mind is ancestral to material mind but part of the material mind. Therefore, human mind cannot fall through cracks in time. Human mind is a local universe phenomenon only..
Man's mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man's mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind. 12:5:5
MannyC wrote: Adjusters cannot move because you can only move in time and Adjusters are fragments of God the Father. The Father does not move, the Father does not change. Neither can an Adjuster.
If Adjusters don't move, what happens when they leave their host? They move to a new location. They never move back to the same planet if survival of their host is denied. Jesus actually watched his personalized Adjuster descend from Paradise at his baptism. Something must have been moving if he was watching.
MannyC wrote: This is most definitely a typo in the book. I am glad you noted it. I did not.
Exquisite arrogance Louis.
MannyC wrote: Rexford wrote: If the Unqualified Absolute is not in time and space then how does it become conditioned by what is in time and space? It is not conditioned by time-space. And it is misleading to write "time and space" , it is time-space. They are not separate. It's not like Jack and Jill.
Then why is the Unqualified Absolute time-space modified in God the Sevenfold?
The Unqualified Absolute and the Deity Absolute are unified in the Universal Absolute. The Absolutes are co-ordinated in the Ultimate, conditioned in the Supreme, and time-space modified in God the Sevenfold. On subinfinite levels there are three Absolutes, but in infinity they appear to be one. On Paradise there are three personalizations of Deity, but in the Trinity they are one. 56:9:1
MannyC wrote: Adjuster are Spirit because Father is Spirit. Pattern configures energy, even Spirit energy. Mind is not spatial because it is clear that ideas do not contain space. Without space there is not time. The Adjuster resides everywhere because mind is everywhere.
There is nothing at all in the text that says Adjusters are pattern. Personality is pattern, so Adjuster personalities would be pre-pattern and pre-will. Adjusters also have pre-mind, but mind is not pattern and human mind is space bound, meaning constrained to space. Pre-mind is outside the circuits of the Infinite Spirit (6:6:3).
But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence. 42:12:2
Personality or identity forms are patterns resultant from energy (physical, spiritual, or mindal) but are not inherent therein. 0:6:12
You as a personal creature have mind and will. The Adjuster as a prepersonal creature has premind and prewill. 110:2:5
Respectfully, Rexford
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