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 Post subject: Did Michael Sponsor TUB?
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53:9.4 Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

Is brother Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels a loving act? Is it God's will that a brother plea for the destruction of others?


54:5.8 7. It is evident that Immanuel counseled Michael to remain aloof from the rebels and allow rebellion to pursue a natural course of self-obliteration. And the wisdom of the Union of Days is the time reflection of the united wisdom of the Paradise Trinity.


Is a natural course of self-obliteration being followed by Gabriel? Is not Gabriel the loyal representative of Michael? Who took the counsel of Immanuel, Gabriel or Michael? Would it be safe to say that the wisdom of the Union of Days is perfect?


54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation. To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith.


In bringing forth the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, did Gabriel take heed of the counsel of the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton?


54:5.12 11. An emergency council of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem. They advised Gabriel that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.

Has Gabriel followed this advise from an emergency counsel and the entire Uversa corps of counselors? Remember Gabriel vs. Lucifer.


TUB tells us that Part II and Part III of Papers were sponsored by a Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington.

The question is whether Michael had anything to do with the presentation of TUB or was Gabriel acting alone in authorizing this Corp.


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Is brother Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels a loving act? Is it God's will that a brother plea for the destruction of others?

Is a natural course of self-obliteration being followed by Gabriel? Is not Gabriel the loyal representative of Michael? Who took the counsel of Immanuel, Gabriel or Michael? Would it be safe to say that the wisdom of the Union of Days is perfect?

In bringing forth the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, did Gabriel take heed of the counsel of the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton?

Has Gabriel followed this advise from an emergency counsel and the entire Uversa corps of counselors? Remember Gabriel vs. Lucifer.


Louis my friend,

I don't mean to divert your line of questioning which I realize challenges many here but as I perceive that may be your intent, I would offer an observation of spiritual perception that helps me with them.

As I went through these questions and began to try to answer them in my mind, a thought came to me. No human can answer these directly. These are personal questions for the one who is facing the ominous task of personally participating in requesting the justice of the Superuniverse, (33:4.6). We are incapable of appreciating the magnitude of the problem Gabriel faces in seeking the finalization of a rebellion of Universe significance caused by his very own, though slightly lower level siblings against his and their very own father/creator. Why do I say this? It is because the scope of the issue is beyond our comprehension. I suggest it is even beyond our dimensional imagination. No human intellect can educate or be educated in his own mind and no human personality can draw enough personal experience to facilitate the depth of thought and insight available to a Bright and Morning Star, one who was made in the exact likeness of the Paradise Creator Son and the Universe Mother Spirit (33:4.2) but without creator and other deity prerogatives. But we can, in our own sphere of reality comprehension, analyze the problem in our most insightful personal and spiritual terms and come to an appreciation of the personal issues we would have to address if we were faced with the job of chief prosecutor over our own siblings.

So to begin I suggest we examine the problem of being tasked with the responsibility to prosecute the suit from the broadest possible perspective with the hope of putting a boundary of sorts around the issue. In other words, let me define what I believe are we really talking about here? I suggest we are talking about the process we each will have to endure as we transition from the gracious position of extenders of mercy to the apparently, at least to we Urantians, ungracious position of that of dispensers of justice. Remember while mercy may be lavish, justice must be precise (133:1.2). So the latitude we acknowledge and find so comforting in dispensing mercy is quite absent in the prosecution of justice. But clearly, justice is of God. Herein is the real conundrum for our comparatively small thinking minds. Those who administer justice, from the prosecutors to the final arbiters are tasked with possibly the most difficult activity in all of societal reality.

In the Paradise Trinity justice and mercy are one, (2:4.5) in other words, Divine Mercy is Eternal Justice. With the Ancients of Days the standard is judicial perfection but absolute perfection of the administration of justice within the partiality of the evolving Supreme Being is a task beyond my imagination. I submit, though, that it is not beyond the imagination or even the actual comprehension of a Bright and Morning Star, again referring to his being divine like his parents.

Metaphorically speaking, and from our perspective, justice in mercy dominated reality is clearly a single diamond in a mine the size of Urantia. Seeking to exercise that authority is a task of personal application to appreciation of the reality of spiritual value that effaces one’s pride potential and submits one’s person, character and indeed whole life to the grandest amount of observation and analysis by the multitudes of watchful observers from Paradise to Urantia and beyond. After all, we are watching too, as we note in the topic here. The many references to Gabriel seeking guidance and receiving advice are evidence to that point.

As we proceed from our current status to that of seventh stage Finaliter, some of us will assuredly be selected to become trinitized as a member of Those High in Authority. We will be tasked with the practice of passing from a position of dispensing mercy to a position similar to that which Gabriel now faces. But even if we do not trinitized as these, I believe we all will learn the details of this process. If that is true, no one who ascends to the true heights of spirituality will be spared the duty of participating in the administration of justice to at least the degree necessary to allow each of us the self-examination and correction (spiritual growth) required to relieve us the potential to be vindictive or calloused regarding another as well as to experience the reality of being divinely fair. The bright light of truth, beauty and goodness will pervade our souls and spirits until we hold nothing back from God. I further believe we will not acquire that level of experience until long ages of self-identification and achievement have been experienced.

Now the last question you asked might deserve a direct answer.
Did Michael have any direct input or oversight (“anything to do with”) in the presentation of the papers?

To that I say, “Ask him, the Spirit of Truth, and tell us what he says.” 21:5.7-10

Hopefully this will provide something for us to think about.

Jim


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Hi Jim, and thanks for the first reply to my post. I agree with you 100%.

Jim George wrote:
As I went through these questions and began to try to answer them in my mind, a thought came to me. No human can answer these directly.


I did not expect that I would get an answer to these questions. I merely asked them to provoke thought.


Jim George wrote:
We are incapable of appreciating the magnitude of the problem Gabriel faces in seeking the finalization of a rebellion of Universe significance caused by his very own, though slightly lower level siblings against his and their very own father/creator. Why do I say this? It is because the scope of the issue is beyond our comprehension. I suggest it is even beyond our dimensional imagination.


Precisely correct, Jim. I knew that you would understand. It now begs the question as to why. Why have we on Urantia been revealed the graphic details of an issue beyond our comprehension? Are we being informed so that we can bear witness in some indirect way to this issue that is way above our pay grade? Are we somehow supposed to weight the evidence as potential jury members? Is a potential jury pool being tampered with? I have no idea! Why are we being dragged into this matter I wonder. I presume that Gabriel wants us to have this information, but to what end?

Jim George wrote:
The many references to Gabriel seeking guidance and receiving advice are evidence to that point.


Jim, I have no information that Gabriel sought the guidance or council of any higher source. Perhaps I missed it. The council and advice were given to Gabriel unsolicited.


What we can comprehend Is love. Love is within our scope of realization. We can comprehend, each in our own way and at our own level, the dynamics of the relationships illustrated in the parable of the prodigal son. Jesus is always with us. We can ask the Spirit of Truth, as you pointed out.

Jesus tells us to judge not. He tells us to resist not evil. He tells us to turn the other cheek. He tells us to return good for evil. He tells us to forgive our bother seventy times seven. Are these admonitions directed exclusively to his sons of human minds, or do these admonitions apply to all of his sons, divine and otherwise?

21:5.7 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.


Why plea for annihilation if justice will eventually take care of the matter? I do not think that a million years have passed. I do not understand, but maybe, again, it's above my pay grade. Please, no one try to kill me for asking.


Jim George wrote:
Now the last question you asked might deserve a direct answer.
Did Michael have any direct input or oversight (“anything to do with”) in the presentation of the papers?

To that I say, “Ask him, the Spirit of Truth, and tell us what he says.” 21:5.7-10



I certainly did not expect an indirect answer from any quote in TUB. You are correct in stating that this last question of mine deserves a direct answer. It seems as if no one dares to ask.

Ask and you shall receive. And so it is.

Thanks Jim


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Precisely correct, Jim. I knew that you would understand. It now begs the question as to why. Why have we on Urantia been revealed the graphic details of an issue beyond our comprehension? Are we being informed so that we can bear witness in some indirect way to this issue that is way above our pay grade? Are we somehow supposed to weight the evidence as potential jury members? Is a potential jury pool being tampered with? I have no idea! Why are we being dragged into this matter I wonder. I presume that Gabriel wants us to have this information, but to what end?


I want to never forget that the Ancients of Days, the supreme executives of the Superuniverse have authorized the presentation of the first sections of Urantia Papers to us. That, at least to me, means a great deal. Therefore I deem it my duty to attempt to not merely understand the text but to allow myself no latitude of laziness when it comes to examining my own abilities to respond to God's guidance. I find great and wonderful understanding in the text. I find greater and more personal appreciation of meaning when I look inside me and reflect on the text. To your questions above, it strikes me that while we are not responsible for the application of justice in this matter, we are laying the foundation for "agondonterism", i.e. "who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone." This whole concept verifies my sense that this book is not merely a factual textbook of universe knowledge. As such we are being prepared to be something we are not even aware of and the details of the Lucifer Rebellion and its end, are something we will need to appreciate as we proceed beyond.

I sometimes wonder if we actually realize that the authors as well as Gabriel and Jesus, our Creator Father/Brother are real people. That is they are individuals with intellects and personalities just like we are. I have been criticized in the past, though not on this board, for talking of them as people but that is what they are to me. Spiritual people who have spiritual bodies, but personality and intellect are of God so we are, in that, the same. Yeah they are way beyond my ability to comprehend but as we saw when Jesus was here, he is just a person like us. I think that is another issue you raised with your questions that caused confusion. But that is how I think we can know them; that is by being real people ourselves.

Jim


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Jim George wrote:
I want to never forget that the Ancients of Days, the supreme executives of the Superuniverse have authorized the presentation of the first sections of Urantia Papers to us. That, at least to me, means a great deal. Therefore I deem it my duty to attempt to not merely understand the text but to allow myself no latitude of laziness when it comes to examining my own abilities to respond to God's guidance. I find great and wonderful understanding in the text. I find greater and more personal appreciation of meaning when I look inside me and reflect on the text.


I am with you here, Jim. You know that I have gathered tremendous information and insights from part I of TUB. I could not have done so without my TA's assistance, however. I call it blue's clues because by first Urantia book was, is blue. I have shared as much as I can to much controversy. I have more that I am gathering now regarding Havona and its place at the nucleus of the ultimaton.


Jim George wrote:
To your questions above, it strikes me that while we are not responsible for the application of justice in this matter, we are laying the foundation for "agondonterism", i.e. "who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone."


I never thought of it in this manner. I will give this "agondonterism" more thought.


Jim George wrote:
This whole concept verifies my sense that this book is not merely a factual textbook of universe knowledge. As such we are being prepared to be something we are not even aware of and the details of the Lucifer Rebellion and its end, are something we will need to appreciate as we proceed beyond.


I truly believe that TUB is truthful and free from error, although not infallible by its own claim. I do not believe Micheal would have permitted parts II, III and IV of TUB had it not been a truthful telling. As for what more it could be other than a factual presentation, I am not certain. I do pay particular attention to the sponsors of the parts and the authors of the Papers. Of particular note, Paper 54, from which many of the quotes in question come, was authored by a Mighty Messenger, certainly a different point of view. This person is one of human origin that has fused and ascended to Paradise but does not hail from our Universe. Paper 54 seems to me to be a clarification of sorts and a response of sorts to Paper 53. I could definitely be wrong on this but this is my feeling.

I never for one minute believed that brother Gabriel is acting outside his prerogatives as Chief Executive, it just seems odd that Michael has reacted with aloofness to the rebellion as advised by Immanuel, and Gabriel chose to be proactive in the matter. But as we have already agreed, this is a matter beyond our comprehension. I thought that the parable of the prodigal son might mirror the conflict in heaven as it is on Earth. Warring brothers, a father that loves them both, one lost, then found (although we do not know the status of all of the rebels), the other righteous and steadfast, yet unable or unwilling to forgive the erring brother just yet.

Jim George wrote:
I sometimes wonder if we actually realize that the authors as well as Gabriel and Jesus, our Creator Father/Brother are real people.


And realize also that we have TAs and are destined for Paradise. Not so of Local Universe Personalities of permanent residency here in Nebadon. We have the potential destiny to fuse with a Father Fragment and reach enviable heights. This is not the case with even the Melchizedeks, an order that could only experience Father directly as an indwelling Spirit while incarnated on emergency missions.

Point in fact, Father is with us always, as Jesus is with us. We all are truly blessed and loved.

Take care, Louis


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Jim George wrote:
this book is not merely a factual textbook of universe knowledge. As such we are being prepared to be something we are not even aware of

We're not aware, because if we were, there couldn't be a preparation. It's the whole point, to do it without knowing. Knowing the book, is still not knowing. It only provides the idea, a sketch.

When we are given very detailed information about the location and residence of the God of the Universe (Paradise) and then it's mentioned comparatively speaking, as if in passing, "oh, by the way" what's at the nucleus of the first measurable form of energy (the ultimaton), is this very same thing, this very same place, Paradise, it confirms it's incomprehensible. It confirms that the facts aren't important, it confirms that actually, they're the problem. Except for what's at the fulcrum of our ultimatonic personality.

Faith, not fact.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
When we are given very detailed information about the location and residence of the God of the Universe (Paradise) and then it's mentioned comparatively speaking, as if in passing, "oh, by the way" what's at the nucleus of the first measurable form of energy (the ultimaton), is this very same thing, this very same place, Paradise, it confirms it's incomprehensible. It confirms that the facts aren't important, it confirms that actually, they're the problem. Except for what's at the fulcrum of our ultimatonic personality.


That is at the heart of what we are talking about. The incomprehensible becomes known with the assistance of the TA!

Paradise is at the center of the Universe of Universes and at the center of the ultimaton. There can only be ONE center for all that exists!

Paradise is a place but at the same time it is NOT a place. Paradise has no location in space. It has no address in space. It has no GPS coordinates in space. For this reason it can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time (simultaneously, for any physicist out there). AT the same time means at an instant. An instant is the absolute of time, otherwise known as eternity. Paradise is the absolute of pattern. This pattern is copies that are self-similar and repeat. This is a fractal. Nature is so similar to fractal patterns generated by computers because Paradise pattern is the perfect fractal.

If a computer could calculate the three transcendental numbers (PI, phi, and e) to infinite digits, it could create nature itself I suppose, minus mind and spirit.

This pattern is orthogonal, the universe relationship. This is symbolized in the three concentric circles (banner of Michael) that are mutually orthogonal, geometrically. This relationship persists in everything that is seen and unseen.

Nod, all of these details in TUB are clues to be deciphered and unlocked, but the key to doing so lies in the willingness to ask for help from the Spirit within.

What do you do with the fact in TUB that "gravity acts in the plane perpendicular to mass"??? The first clue is that there is a perpendicular (orthogonal) relationship between mass and gravity. The second clue is that mass is not a point. Why? Because nothing can be perpendicular to a "point". You have to know that point mass and and virtual particles are treated as "points" to the physicists of our day.

So, mass must be something other than a point. A line or a plane come to mind because these are the only other two choices. From this I concluded that mass must be a line. Since finite reality is dual, two points connect to form a line. The only line that we can recognize in nature is the line that forms the axis of rotation of the celestial orbs. This is the line that connects the north and south poles. BTW, Paradise also has a North and a
South pole. Paradise does not move but neither does the axis of rotation of the line that connect the two polar points. This is Paradise pattern copied and projected into finite creation, motion. This pattern persist right down to the ultimaton particle that has an axis of rotation as well.

Mass is tied up, not in a point, but in a line. This is revolutionary and revelatory!! Physicists will never discover what gives a particle of matter mass until this fact is realized. Yet billions of dollars are spent on CERN, only to get results that physicists cannot understand, but try to convince you that they can by presenting yet another ridiculous theory.

Also, another fact that changes everything we now know is a very innocent sounding fact in the Forward of TUB. That fact is, "gravity is the sole control of matter-energy". Do you realize the spinning wheels that will come to a screeching halt when science comes to grip with this seemingly simple fact?! But don't hold your breath. I have been struggling to present these "facts" on physics blogs for years now and have met with far more resistance than I have ever experienced here or on UAI.

Nod, you have an emailed copy of my book. I wrote it all in there, at least the beginning of my fact searching work from TUB. I have emailed it to a few other person on this site that have requested it and would be happy to have it available to any who want it.

This is just the beginning. I have lots in the back wing waiting for the proper time.

Nod wrote: "Faith, not fact."

I would suggest faith and fact. In fact, it is trios. Truth, beauty and goodness. Science, philosophy and religion. Body, mind and Spirit. Fact, meaning and value. etc. But Fatih does take the lead, I agree.


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My interpretation is that if others are actually set against the will of God, intentially, such beings are treated as conditions in the universe, but if sentience exists and potential for good then God will confront such conditions directly.

I would say due to a high degree of inexperience that humans are at first incapable of actually intentially setting against God's will, but that advanced creatures with a high degree of universe experience are capable of doing so in sophisticated fashion. You might think "oh well that one must have accomplished much to be able to defy God's will" but really there is no gain to go against progress.

The truth may be that Gabriel correctly detected the intent of Lucifer post manifesto, as not only sin but as the malignance that in this day would be considered nihilistic. And in such case there is a massive reappropriation, or disrobing, of that which God had invested, as in the case of a mountain that would be acquisitioned into castles in the name of progress.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
My interpretation is that if others are actually set against the will of God, intentially, such beings are treated as conditions in the universe, but if sentience exists and potential for good then God will confront such conditions directly.


God has already acted. It was a primal act in the eternal past. Being are not conditions, beings are persons. And God is no respecter of persons. I do not understand what you have written here Stephen.


SEla_Kelly wrote:
The truth may be that Gabriel correctly detected the intent of Lucifer post manifesto, as not only sin but as the malignance that in this day would be considered nihilistic. And in such case there is a massive reappropriation, or disrobing, of that which God had invested, as in the case of a mountain that would be acquisitioned into castles in the name of progress.


Are you saying that Gabriel knows the mind of Lucifer and his intentions? If, in fact, Gabriel actually knows of Lucifers's intention then I would presume that Michael and Immanuel would also.

54:5.8 7. It is evident that Immanuel counseled Michael to remain aloof from the rebels and allow rebellion to pursue a natural course of self-obliteration. And the wisdom of the Union of Days is the time reflection of the united wisdom of the Paradise Trinity.

Why do you suppose, then, that Gabriel and Michael took such divergent actions, or, in the case of Michael, inaction?

How can there be "massive re-appropriation, or disrobing , of that which God had invested..."??? God is not mocked!!!

2:3.2 How futile to make puerile appeals to such a God to modify his changeless decrees so that we can avoid the just consequences of the operation of his wise natural laws and righteous spiritual mandates!"Be not deceived; God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap."True, even in the justice of reaping the harvest of wrongdoing, this divine justice is always tempered with mercy. Infinite wisdom is the eternal arbiter which determines the proportions of justice and mercy which shall be meted out in any given circumstance. The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with.

God does not invest. Therefore, God cannot be cheated out of an investment. God has us do the investing for Him. And we had better bring forth profit. There is a parable about this one thing. Refresh your memory about the parable of the pound.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
And in such case there is a massive reappropriation, or disrobing, of that which God had invested,...


If you replace "Gabriel" for "God" in your statement above, then we can have a conversation.


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Poppycock Alert: Manny claims above: " Paradise has no location in space. It has no address in space. It has no GPS coordinates in space. For this reason it can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time (simultaneously, for any physicist out there). AT the same time means at an instant."

11:1.3 (118.5) We all know the direct course to pursue to find the Universal Father. You are not able to comprehend much about the divine residence because of its remoteness from you and the immensity of the intervening space, but those who are able to comprehend the meaning of these enormous distances know God’s location and residence just as certainly and literally as you know the location of New York, London, Rome, or Singapore, cities definitely and geographically located on Urantia. If you were an intelligent navigator, equipped with ship, maps, and compass, you could readily find these cities. Likewise, if you had the time and means of passage, were spiritually qualified, and had the necessary guidance, you could be piloted through universe upon universe and from circuit to circuit, ever journeying inward through the starry realms, until at last you would stand before the central shining of the spiritual glory of the Universal Father. Provided with all the necessities for the journey, it is just as possible to find the personal presence of God at the center of all things as to find distant cities on your own planet. That you have not visited these places in no way disproves their reality or actual existence. That so few of the universe creatures have found God on Paradise in no way disproves either the reality of his existence or the actuality of his spiritual person at the center of all things.

Me here: And God will always be found at this address. :roll: 8) :wink: Another example of the importance of both studying and quoting the actual text.


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fanofVan wrote:
Poppycock Alert: Manny claims above: " Paradise has no location in space. It has no address in space. It has no GPS coordinates in space. For this reason it can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time (simultaneously, for any physicist out there). AT the same time means at an instant."


I am sorry for the error, Bradly. I meant to say that Paradise has no position in space. I stand corrected as to the quote as it is written. But please hear me out. Paradise has a universe location but it is not in space. So, one can conclude that Paradise cannot be found in space. Therefore, I can say that Paradise has no location in space but it does have a universe location and this would be correct. I also said that Paradise has no address in space. If Paradise is not in space then it cannot have an address there. There is a Universe address for Paradise but not a space address.

We can study and quote and still not make this connection. It takes additional thinking beyond the text. Even though I did not quote the text I was not wrong.

0:4.12 The Isle of Paradise—Paradise not otherwise qualified—is the Absolute of the material-gravity control of the First Source and Center. Paradise is motionless, being the only stationary thing in the universe of universes. The Isle of Paradise has a universe location but no position in space. This eternal Isle is the actual source of the physical universes— past, present, and future. The nuclear Isle of Light is a Deity derivative, but it is hardly Deity; neither are the material creations a part of Deity; they are a consequence.


Paradise is the focus of space, but it is not in space.


fanofVan wrote:
Me here: And God will always be found at this address. Another example of the importance of both studying and quoting the actual text.


Brady, I would like to hear your take on why this knowledge is important to all of us here and now. We can then discuss why I think it is important and compare notes. Although this is off topic, I have no problems with it on this thread. It is all interconnected.

An instant does mean simultaneity, at the same time. Everything happens at the same time in eternity. An instant is the absolute of time, the everlasting NOW.


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First of all, God does invest, but God invested a trust of such worth in Lucifer, now Lanaforge, that the term "to invest" may seem shallow and therefore inappropriate. God endows and God invests, but I should be careful because it was erstwhile all of Nebadon whom sanctified Lucifer's hegemony of Satania. God invests, "He hath given his only begotten Son"; He sends his Personalised Adjusters to the aide of his Universe Children. He invests things and even beings of such worth that it is often incomprehensible by human standard.



Secondly, if I am a human whom makes decisions, and in potential may choose to find God and be as God is, then surely I would have to work to prove that my decision has finality whatsoever. But I also have not been dissuaded of any reciprocal decision, that if Lucifer certainly worked with a final sort of determination, he would sever his individuated, once supernal, mindlink with the Eternal Source.

When you as an individual, whether MannyC or the one who has written, consider that individual relationship, I would say the relationship to society DOES seem less significant. Compare Lucifer's self-segregation against the Universal Father versus Lucifer's loss of temporal authority. Despite any perceived harshness aggressiveness decisiveness of Lucifer's elder bro Gabriel, I say salvage the individual's relationship to God at any cost.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
First of all, God does invest...


God does not reside in time. God resides in eternity. He knows the end from the beginning. Investments require time to manifest a return. Nothing that God does requires time. God is all in all. God delegates those thing of time to His creatures of time. God is infinite. He cannot touch time creations. He only projects these things. God is not what He imagines. God is not the images of His imaginings.


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Greetings,

MannyC wrote:
God does not reside in time.


What about God the Sevenfold and God the Supreme?

God the Supreme — the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space. 0:2:15

God the Sevenfold — Deity personality anywhere actually functioning in time and space. The personal Paradise Deities and their creative associates functioning in and beyond the borders of the central universe and power-personalizing as the Supreme Being on the first creature level of unifying Deity revelation in time and space. This level, the grand universe, is the sphere of the time-space descension of Paradise personalities in reciprocal association with the time-space ascension of evolutionary creatures. 0:2:16


What about Adjusters?

Together with their many unrevealed associates, the Adjusters are undiluted and unmixed divinity, unqualified and unattenuated parts of Deity; they are of God, and as far as we are able to discern, they are God.107:1:2

Adjusters are playing the sacred and superb game of the ages; they are engaged in one of the supreme adventures of time in space. 110:3:1


Respectfully,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
MannyC wrote:
God does not reside in time.


God, The Holy Trinity. God resides on Paradise. No time.

Rexford wrote:
What about God the Sevenfold and God the Supreme?


Functioning is not the same as residing. The Trinity Deities never are personally found anywhere outside of timeless Paradise.

God the Supreme is evolving Deity, time is required.

God the Sevenfold is a functional extension of The Holy Trinity. This is how the Trinity functions without moving.


Rexford wrote:
What about Adjusters?


Adjuster do not reside in time. They actually traverse space instantly, without time.

Rexford wrote:
Together with their many unrevealed associates, the Adjusters are undiluted and unmixed divinity, unqualified and unattenuated parts of Deity; they are of God, and as far as we are able to discern, they are God.107:1:2


They are God and God does not reside in time.

Rexford wrote:
Adjusters are playing the sacred and superb game of the ages; they are engaged in one of the supreme adventures of time in space. 110:3:1


They are engaged in one the supreme adventures OF time and space, NOT IN time and space. Havona and Paradise comprise the Central Universe. Paradise is not in time and Havona is not a time creation. And both are to be found at the nucleus of the ultimaton. The ultimaton is in time-space because it moves but the nucleus of the ultimaton is not in time-space. And the space of Havona is unique. It is not the same space as is found in time-space. That is why TAs can pervade space and not reside in time-space. That is why The Unqualified Absolute can pervade space and not be in time-space.


118:3.7 All patterns of reality occupy space on the material levels, but spirit patterns only exist in relation to space; they do not occupy or displace space, neither do they contain it. But to us the master riddle of space pertains to the pattern of an idea. When we enter the mind domain, we encounter many a puzzle. Does the pattern—the reality—of an idea occupy space? We really do not know, albeit we are sure that an idea pattern does not contain space. But it would hardly be safe to postulate that the immaterial is always nonspatial.

The authors do not know just how the TA resides in the mind of man. It is a riddle. Thought adjusters are not thoughts but thought adjusters. There is no reason to think that TAs are residing in time because they are spirit patterns and they exist in relation to space and not space-time itself.


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