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Greetings nod,

You ask:
nodAmanaV wrote:
Does higher spirituality come first, or is it the result of studying the book? It's probably a bit of both.


Excellent question. I think "spiritual types" are part of our heredity. It is something that can be known before the Adjuster volunteers. It is listed with genetic patterns that determine behavior as well as intellectual endowment.

Although we do not definitely know, we firmly believe that all Thought Adjusters are volunteers. But before ever they volunteer, they are in possession of full data respecting the candidate for indwelling. The seraphic drafts of ancestry and projected patterns of life conduct are transmitted via Paradise to the reserve corps of Adjusters on Divinington by the reflectivity technique extending inward from the capitals of the local universes to the headquarters of the superuniverses. This forecast covers not only the hereditary antecedents of the mortal candidate but also the estimate of probable intellectual endowment and spiritual capacity. The Adjusters thus volunteer to indwell minds of whose intimate natures they have been fully apprised. 108:1:2

If you recall, the apostle Philip lacked discerning vision and spiritual insight. He is described as also lacking in certain types of imagination, which I think are related. I believe that he was born that way and there was little he could do about it. He certainly was not a "higher spiritual type" if he was greatly lacking in spiritual insight, but that does not mean that he wasn't spiritual, just not a higher spiritual type.

There was little about Philip's personality that was impressive. He was often spoken of as "Philip of Bethsaida, the town where Andrew and Peter live." He was almost without discerning vision; he was unable to grasp the dramatic possibilities of a given situation. He was not pessimistic; he was simply prosaic. He was also greatly lacking in spiritual insight. 139:5:7
He was almost entirely lacking in certain types of imagination. He was the typical everyday and commonplace average man.139:5:5


One would think that if spiritual insight is something you can grow from seed, that Philip's time spent with Jesus would have made it sprout. I think you either have the potential or you don't. However, if you do have the potential, you can certainly increase your capacity, which is what fostering is, I think. I am not sure what they mean by "conserve". Does that mean that they protect the higher spiritual types in some way? It would be odd to show any favoritism, that is for sure.

Respectfully,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
I am not sure what they mean by "conserve". Does that mean that they protect the higher spiritual types in some way? It would be odd to show any favoritism, that is for sure.

That's a good question too. They did let that "ancestral frog" jump on his own. I think there are advantages mysteriously built into it all but I agree, there simply can't be favoritism personally. But they do guard us. Perhaps at the turn of the century the "gas tank" of higher types was about to go dry, so they filled er up.


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Greetings nod,

If it is true that "spiritual type" is basically genetic, is there a chance that angels lead the higher types into circumstances which increase the likelihood of reproduction in order to maintain the genetic line? It is pure conjecture on my part, a little imaginative thinking, nothing more.

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Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
If it is true that "spiritual type" is basically genetic, is there a chance that angels lead the higher types into circumstances which increase the likelihood of reproduction in order to maintain the genetic line?

Based on the direction of how we're talking about it, I would say no, that's our job, to lead. I can tell you this much, knowing what is revealed about genetics, I regularly made insinuations, when the topic came up with my children, about who, or what type of person they ought to seek out to marry, usually based on what can be observed about the family they're from. No blanket statements, certainly not racially, but generally, I stressed that they should be mindful to look for those signs which signal superior rather than inferior traits. As Urantia Book students, it's clear we have an obligation to do this. It seems to me that spiritual evolution is tied to physical evolution, so we should do our small part to further it all. The place where this is determined is at home, within the family isn't it? Between parents and their kids. We want only the best for them.

The key is better parenting. We need to be better leaders.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
When I see the word "beware" it says to me, 'be aware'. To me, that means to keep our eyes open so that we can see things for what they really are and not be pulled in to unreality of a compelling and persistent energy or presence. So when I see Bradly's phrase "Beware the fear monger" I see it as a suggestion that we maintain awareness of what is real, and what is not, when reading others' compelling perspectives that challenge our personal religious practice or understanding.


Thanks Agon for articulating the difference in being "aware" (wary) and being afraid or fearful. I would hope I have not demonstrated fear, but rather, give voice to confidence in our status and our future!! Nonetheless, we are told to be wise as well as innocent, to be discerning related to acts as well as motives and the fruits of the spirit. When a voice that holds no happiness or trust in this friendly universe spreads their doubts, suspicions, fears, and anger to others, then we are to be "aware" of such a false voice and not follow blindly over the cliff of their personal despair.

MannysFesto is nothing but doubt, suspicion, fear, and anger about his personally-perceived and claims of unfairness and untrustworthiness in Michael's universe and God's universe of universes. There is no fruit to gather among such thorns and thistles. MannysFesto offers nothing for any to fear but simply demonstrates his own personal doubts and suspicions and dark view of this, in truth and fact, friendly and trustworthy universe in which we are be happy children with full faith and confidence in our Lord and Creator/Master Son (including his first born and most experienced as well as wisest of all Sons!). Indeed, MannysFesto is a reiteration of that which is given to us by Lucifer himself with the same insinuations and insertions of reality rejection IMO. Beware indeed!!

140:3.19 (1571.6) “I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep’s clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
Thanks Agon for articulating the difference in being "aware" (wary) and being afraid or fearful. I would hope I have not demonstrated fear, but rather, give voice to confidence in our status and our future!! Nonetheless, we are told to be wise as well as innocent, to be discerning related to acts as well as motives and the fruits of the spirit. When a voice that holds no happiness or trust in this friendly universe spreads their doubts, suspicions, fears, and anger to others, then we are to be "aware" of such a false voice and not follow blindly over the cliff of their personal despair. MannysFesto is nothing but doubt, suspicion, fear, and anger about his perceived unfairness and untrustworthiness in Michael's universe and God's universe of universes. There is no fruit to gather among such thorns and thistles. He offers nothing for any to fear.


You have demonstrated more than fear, Bradly. You are demonstrating terror. It is not my fault that TUB says what it says and don't say what it don't say. Perhaps it is that it takes you back to when you were a young preacher boy and confronted "an eye for an eye" vs. "turn the other cheek". These realizations can shake your foundation if the idols you've made begin to crumble. It brings me no happiness to point this truth to you but brothers on high have been at War as well. Rebellion has been a reality in our little Universe of Nebadon. It is time to put childhood behind you, preacher boy, and grow to maturity. If you see evidence for "an eye for an eye" in our friendly universe, you must not despair, or hold me to blame. There is nothing to fear but you remain fearful or else you would be able to face facts as a man and not a disillusioned boy. You have reached the point of disillusionment and this must be a turing point for you to choose. This is a circle making decision .

If what I present to all of you from the Papers we are to be reading is casting doubt in you, if you dread the facts, if you fear the consequences to your belief system, then do not cast your suspicions upon me. Do not get angry with me. I do not perceive what I have not imagined. It is you that has imagined. It is you that has created an image of your imaginings. Only God can imagine and create. When we do it is is a false and unreal idol. No one can be "aware" of anything as real if it is part of our imaginings. You are projecting your image onto a screen that is not real because your image creates nothing real. Only God can create by extending Himself. You are metaphysically confused, but you are not alone in this.


54:5.8 7. It is evident that Immanuel counseled Michael to remain aloof from the rebels and allow rebellion to pursue a natural course of self-obliteration. And the wisdom of the Union of Days is the time reflection of the united wisdom of the Paradise Trinity.

54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation. To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith.

54:5.12 11. An emergency council of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem. They advised Gabriel that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.

53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.


Here are the facts. This is not my MannysFesto. These are quotes from TUB. You say that TUB says what it says and don't say what they don't say. Face the facts. Is this an "eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek" moment? We are dealing with warring factions and war is ugly and war is tragic. But there are war casualties on both sides because it takes two sides to be at war.


140:3.19 (1571.6) “I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep’s clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.



If the quotes I presented are from TUB and the quote you presented above is also from TUB, whereby do you make your case? Can Satan cast out Satan?


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:roll: :-$ :-# :-s 8) :biggrin:


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MannyC wrote:
I do not perceive what I have not imagined. It is you that has imagined. It is you that has created an image of your imaginings. Only God can imagine and create. When we do it is is a false and unreal idol.


Manny,
Of all the gibberish you just posted, let's just look at the statements above. What the heck are you talking about?! This makes NO SENSE. Furthermore, your outrageous claims are directly contradicted by the book we study here on this forum. Stop spewing such nonsense, please.

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52:1.2 (589.11) The evolutionary races of color — red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and indigo — begin to appear about the time that primitive man is developing a simple language and is beginning to exercise the creative imagination. By this time man is well accustomed to standing erect.


Quote:
80:3.3 (891.4) The European civilization of this early post-Adamic period was a unique blend of the vigor and art of the blue men with the creative imagination of the Adamites.


Quote:
91:3.1 (996.7) Children, when first learning to make use of language, are prone to think out loud, to express their thoughts in words, even if no one is present to hear them. With the dawn of creative imagination they evince a tendency to converse with imaginary companions. In this way a budding ego seeks to hold communion with a fictitious alter ego. By this technique the child early learns to convert his monologue conversations into pseudo dialogues in which this alter ego makes replies to his verbal thinking and wish expression. Very much of an adult’s thinking is mentally carried on in conversational form.


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139:4.7 (1554.5) John was a man of few words except when his temper was aroused. He thought much but said little. As he grew older, his temper became more subdued, better controlled, but he never overcame his disinclination to talk; he never fully mastered this reticence. But he was gifted with a remarkable and creative imagination.


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Greetings,

Of all the wonderful things Adam and Eve gave us, one of the most important is the creative imagination. Sorrowfully, so many cannot tell the difference between co-creation and fabrication. It will be wonderful, in that sometime hopeful future, when mental illness is a very rare occurrence. As for now, we must deal with it as best we can and hope those who suffer from mental instability get proper medical treatment. It is a pity.

The advanced stages of a world settled in light and life represent the acme of evolutionary material development. On these cultured worlds, gone are the idleness and friction of the earlier primitive ages. Poverty and social inequality have all but vanished, degeneracy has disappeared, and delinquency is rarely observed. Insanity has practically ceased to exist, and feeble-mindedness is a rarity. 55:5:2

Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
Greetings,

Of all the wonderful things Adam and Eve gave us, one of the most important is the creative imagination. Sorrowfully, so many cannot tell the difference between co-creation and fabrication. It will be wonderful, in that sometime hopeful future, when mental illness is a very rare occurrence. As for now, we must deal with it as best we can and hope those who suffer from mental instability get proper medical treatment. It is a pity.

The advanced stages of a world settled in light and life represent the acme of evolutionary material development. On these cultured worlds, gone are the idleness and friction of the earlier primitive ages. Poverty and social inequality have all but vanished, degeneracy has disappeared, and delinquency is rarely observed. Insanity has practically ceased to exist, and feeble-mindedness is a rarity. 55:5:2

Rexford


Rexford, what is the intent of your post, above? Can you say more directly what you are trying to say because your post could be interpreted in many different ways and I do not want to misunderstand your message.


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Greetings Agon,

I am trying to say that mental instability is often confused with creativity. There is a fine line between co-creation and confabulation that can hornswoggle.

Respectfully,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
Greetings Agon,

I am trying to say that mental instability is often confused with creativity. There is a fine line between co-creation and confabulation that can hornswoggle.

Respectfully,
Rexford


Well, not only can they be confused with each other, but in fact there is a link between creativity and mental instability. Here is a paper in the Stanford Journal of Neuroscience that discusses this.

Excerpt:
"Thus far, we have seen that manic depressive disorder and
schizophrenia are both significantly more prevalent in artists than in
the rest of the population, that neurologically they share similarities
with the biology of creative thinking – in short, that these altered
mental states could indeed contribute to creativity and artistic production.

Knowing that this connection is scientifically supported, how are
we to ethically treat these illnesses? "


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Manny,
Of all the gibberish you just posted, let's just look at the statements above. What the heck are you talking about?! This makes NO SENSE. Furthermore, your outrageous claims are directly contradicted by the book we study here on this forum. Stop spewing such nonsense, please.


I will explain given the opportunity. We are God's creation. He is the Creator of all that is seen and unseen. God created us in His image. We are a projection of God's imaginings. We are finite reality because we are a projection of Infinite reality.

We can make things with our minds by use of creative imagination but we can only co-create with God if we are one with our Creator. That is only possible when our respective Will's are in alignment. The Son is created, not made.

We are gifted with an incredible creative imagination because we posses a Father Fragment which indwells our mind.

6:5.7 Though the Eternal Son cannot personally participate in the bestowal of the Thought Adjusters, he did sit in council with the Universal Father in the eternal past, approving the plan and pledging endless co-operation, when the Father, in projecting the bestowal of the Thought Adjusters, proposed to the Son, “Let us make mortal man in our own image.” And as the spirit fragment of the Father dwells within you, so does the spirit presence of the Son envelop you, while these two forever work as one for your spiritual advancement.


The difference between created and made lies at the heart of the idolatry problem. We cannot serve two Masters. We can co-create with God by abiding in His Will, or we can make graven images, projections of our own making, that do not serve us in our progress in the Kingdom.

11:9.3 In the eternity of the past, when the Universal Father gave infinite personality expression of his spirit self in the being of the Eternal Son, simultaneously he revealed the infinity potential of his nonpersonal self as Paradise. Nonpersonal and nonspiritual Paradise appears to have been the inevitable repercussion to the Father's will and act which eternalized the Original Son. Thus did the Father project reality in two actual phases—the personal and the nonpersonal, the spiritual and the nonspiritual. The tension between them, in the face of will to action by the Father and the Son, gave existence to the Conjoint Actor and the central universe of material worlds and spiritual beings.


196:3.23 The idealization and attempted service of truth, beauty, and goodness is not a substitute for genuine religious experience—spiritual reality. Psychology and idealism are not the equivalent of religious reality. The projections of the human intellect may indeed originate false godsgods in man's image—but the true God- consciousness does not have such an origin. The God-consciousness is resident in the indwelling spirit. Many of the religious systems of man come from the formulations of the human intellect, but the God-consciousness is not necessarily a part of these grotesque systems of religious slavery.


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fanofVan wrote:
:roll: :-$ :-# :-s 8) :biggrin:



It's time to leave childish things behind.


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MannyC wrote:
The Son is created, not made


Can you provide TUB quotes to back this up, please?


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