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The condition that incites aversion to the idea of "Being a Student" is that the western context of being a student is being in isolation. You should expect that being a student of Urantia Papers is different in the sense that life situations and normal socialisation will allow you to expand your living concepts of the ideas presented in the text.

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There is something funny about the 1950's and American Culture then. "Sadlerisms" seem to be riddled into the culture, of the old fashioned expectation that any child born with ordinary capacities of intellect is going to be useful to society in some profound way. It is the glorification of the average type, the idea that human evolution is not trusted to the sages but his kin.

To think that Urantian Philosophy is reserved for those who proclaim the text is to neglect its declarations about the adequacy of Christianity and Urantia Book's criticisms of Christianity in general. The studying of society is what is begotten from Urantia Papers, that we look with sympathy and favoritism on other cultures, rather than the overvaluation of our own.

But I have seen that the Sikhs, the followers of Nanaak considered the most recent and most advanced religious culture has done much to shed light as an example of how the Urantia Book's ideals should be used and disseminated. It is in the genuine urge to "reach out" and aide other groups that the text will take root and truly expand.

Once again, I point to the personality of Jesus, who never revealed his sources of information to outsiders, to show that it is not the exaltation of the text itself, but what comes out of the ideals of the text as being most beneficial to life on Urantia.

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Rexford wrote:
I'm pretty sure Brad said that the Papers are a primer on reality. He did not say that the Papers are the only reality. They are merely a part of reality. I think we can all agree that the Papers are real; they definitely exist.


Where do the Papers have their existence? If, as you say, the Papers are merely a part of reality, which part is that? Please tell us first how God partitions His reality.


Rexford wrote:
A primer is an elementary textbook which serves as an introduction to a subject. I think the Papers are an introduction to a celestial view of reality which includes, among other things, a cosmology, a correction of the facts of history and a broader revelation of the life of Jesus. It most certainly is a primer. It's not the whole shebang, just a beginning for the tadpole.


If the subject of this primer is the reality of God, how can the whole be seen by its part? The thing is that we already have the whole shebang!

It is God within, the presence of God in man. TUB calls it the TA. The TA is the whole of God because a fragment of God is all of God. God is all in all.


SEla_Kelly wrote:
Once again, I point to the personality of Jesus, who never revealed his sources of information to outsiders, to show that it is not the exaltation of the text itself, but what comes out of the ideals of the text as being most beneficial to life on Urantia.


I like this very much.


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Greetings All,

SEla_Kelly wrote:
it is not the exaltation of the text itself, but what comes out of the ideals of the text as being most beneficial to life on Urantia.


I have to agree with this Mr. Kelly. But I think the Papers assist us by beginning with ideas, which when we reflect upon them, have the potential to become ideals. Once we recognize ideals, it is possible for them to become spiritized and actionable, thus affecting, first the individual's life, which then affects the lives of all those in contact with that individual (see quote below).

Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth — universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds. 101:6:7

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
I have to agree with this Mr. Kelly. But I think the Papers assist us by beginning with ideas, which when we reflect upon them, have the potential to become ideals. Once we recognize ideals, it is possible for them to become spiritized and actionable, thus affecting, first the individual's life, which then affects the lives of all those in contact with that individual (see quote below).


I can appreciate this common ground.


Rexford wrote:
Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth — universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds. 101:6:7


I would stress the Adjuster's role as well as The Spirit of Truth.

I have no problem with TUB, Brad and Rexford. I just question how we react to TUB and how we place it in the context of our lives. Because of the TA and the Spirit ministries, TUB is not a necessary part of anyones life. The ascension career will provide all that is necessary. I can see TUB as serving as a head start program for those that are ready, willing and able. If you want to call it an AP program, well OK. I, however, am cautious not to make TUB an object of idolatry. This is the pitfall of how some in the past and present have contextualized so called sacred texts.


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Rexford wrote:
Greetings All,

SEla_Kelly wrote:
it is not the exaltation of the text itself, but what comes out of the ideals of the text as being most beneficial to life on Urantia.


I have to agree with this Mr. Kelly. But I think the Papers assist us by beginning with ideas, which when we reflect upon them, have the potential to become ideals. Once we recognize ideals, it is possible for them to become spiritized and actionable, thus affecting, first the individual's life, which then affects the lives of all those in contact with that individual (see quote below).

Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth — universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds. 101:6:7

In Friendship,
Rexford


MannyC wrote:
Rexford wrote:
I have to agree with this Mr. Kelly. But I think the Papers assist us by beginning with ideas, which when we reflect upon them, have the potential to become ideals. Once we recognize ideals, it is possible for them to become spiritized and actionable, thus affecting, first the individual's life, which then affects the lives of all those in contact with that individual (see quote below).


I can appreciate this common ground.


Rexford wrote:
Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth — universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds. 101:6:7


I would stress the Adjuster's role as well as The Spirit of Truth.

I have no problem with TUB, Brad and Rexford. I just question how we react to TUB and how we place it in the context of our lives. Because of the TA and the Spirit ministries, TUB is not a necessary part of anyones life. The ascension career will provide all that is necessary. I can see TUB as serving as a head start program for those that are ready, willing and able. If you want to call it an AP program, well OK. I, however, am cautious not to make TUB an object of idolatry. This is the pitfall of how some in the past and present have contextualized so called sacred texts.


The UB is graciously, generously, and specifically clear as to the importance of fact, knowledge, and epochal revelation to all mortals on all worlds, perhaps most especially, this world in particular.

The fact is that the TA, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Truth are not the voices of fact and cosmology...they are the mind and spirit ministers charged with individual spiritization and truth insight and confirmation. They are not a substitute for FACT regarding reality and its many components, personalities, origins, destinies, relationships, history - the facts of cosmology. Such knowledge is given us to reduce confusions and eliminate errors.

Is the gift of such fact idolatry? If not, then the study of such facts is not either. TUB is most definitely "important". Or it would not be given to us. Facts are given to all worlds. Libraries and schools and teachers and curriculum are the NORM. Not the exception. The UB is not a "head start" program either. It is a "just in time" or more accurately, an "at just the right time" gift intended to transform the individual's religious experience by the addition of a factual presentation of REALITY to assist all who find, read, and STUDY the cosmological/reality facts to incorporate their inner life and relationships with the TA. What's a TA without the UB? Never heard of TAs anywhere else. What's Paradise and the ultimaton? What's fusion and an ascender? What really happened in the Garden and why are we so confused and confounded here? What's heaven like? Are we perfected at death because we are "saved" in a church here as so many are told. Are science and religion contradictory? Are we alone here in the universe? How big is creation?

Not one of those questions and related facts will ever come to any mortal by TA or any other spirit.

The UB is neither ancient nor a religious text for veneration or idolatry. It is a book of facts. Facts to be known and to be studied. Or it would not be here...or it is a great hoax. No one may have it AS a book of fact AND unimportant OR dangerous. A most disingenuous preposteration of a question and "warning".

Believe it or don't....this does not matter. Reality is indifferent to our beliefs and knowledge...but the pilgrim is not indifferent...or should not be indifferent to such important facts given as a rare and epochal revelation of the facts of reality. The belief of these facts does not save, transform, or bring fusion to anyone - as the book itself says and teaches. Facts, while important, do not deliver truth and faith and soul growth - and, as this fact book clearly states, to survive this life takes only faith. But for those who aspire to circle progress (oh, there's another fact not otherwise known) on this world of birth, the facts regarding universe reality are a true gift and important gift to help inspire as well as inform the truth seeker and pilgrim in time.

The paranoia of idolatry is unfounded. I've never met a UB reader/student/believer who worshipped this book. It does not hold Deity or represent Deity....it describes Deity and Reality. Nothing wrong with worshipping Deity and knowing of reality.

So, again, YESYESYES, WE SHOULD BE STUDENTS OF TUB!!!! No question. No doubt. Or so the authors and the authorities who instructed the authors would undoubtedly say. Why else is it here? We are instructed to put these facts into the "context" of our lives and our perspective as we live according to those facts presented. Living according to the facts of universe reality improves progress and outcomes as our philosophy of living is shaped by the facts and our experiences in truth discovery or meanings and values in the LIVING experience of soul building, love response, and faith in God and the friendly universe created for all children of creation.

Let us study then together and learn these wonderful facts and share the truths we have discovered within mind and along the pilgrim's path to Paradise!

8)

What was it the UB said again?

25:4.12 (279.13) Those mortals and midwayers who serve transiently with the advisers are chosen for such work because of their expertness in the concept of universal law and supreme justice. As you journey toward your Paradise goal, constantly acquiring added knowledge and enhanced skill, you are continuously afforded the opportunity to give out to others the wisdom and experience you have already accumulated; all the way in to Havona you enact the role of a pupil-teacher. You will work your way through the ascending levels of this vast experiential university by imparting to those just below you the new-found knowledge of your advancing career. In the universal regime you are not reckoned as having possessed yourself of knowledge and truth until you have demonstrated your ability and your willingness to impart this knowledge and truth to others.

51:6.2 (586.6) On normal worlds the garden headquarters of the violet race becomes the second center of world culture and, jointly with the headquarters city of the Planetary Prince, sets the pace for the development of civilization. For centuries the city headquarters schools of the Planetary Prince and the garden schools of Adam and Eve are contemporary. They are usually not very far apart, and they work together in harmonious co-operation.

51:6.3 (587.1) Think what it would mean on your world if somewhere in the Levant there were a world center of civilization, a great planetary university of culture, which had functioned uninterruptedly for 37,000 years. And again, pause to consider how the moral authority of even such an ancient center would be reinforced were there situated not far-distant still another and older headquarters of celestial ministry whose traditions would exert a cumulative force of 500,000 years of integrated evolutionary influence. It is custom which eventually spreads the ideals of Eden to a whole world. *

51:6.4 (587.2) The schools of the Planetary Prince are primarily concerned with philosophy, religion, morals, and the higher intellectual and artistic achievements. The garden schools of Adam and Eve are usually devoted to practical arts, fundamental intellectual training, social culture, economic development, trade relations, physical efficiency, and civil government. Eventually these world centers amalgamate, but this actual affiliation sometimes does not occur until the times of the first Magisterial Son.

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.

101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:


101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.

101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.

101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.

101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.

101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.

92:4.4 (1007.4) There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:

92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.


Me here: Thanks to TruthBook and all here who serve this student body of fact and truth seekers! :biggrin:


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fanofVan wrote:
[. . .]
The UB is graciously, generously, and specifically clear as to the importance of fact, knowledge, and epochal revelation to all mortals on all worlds, perhaps most especially, this world in particular.

The fact is that the TA, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Truth are not the voices of fact and cosmology...they are the mind and spirit ministers charged with individual spiritization and truth insight and confirmation. They are not a substitute for FACT regarding reality and its many components, personalities, origins, destinies, relationships, history - the facts of cosmology. Such knowledge is given us to reduce confusions and eliminate errors.

Is the gift of such fact idolatry? If not, then the study of such facts is not either. TUB is most definitely "important". Or it would not be given to us. Facts are given to all worlds. Libraries and schools and teachers and curriculum are the NORM. Not the exception. The UB is not a "head start" program either. It is a "just in time" or more accurately, an "at just the right time" gift intended to transform the individual's religious experience by the addition of a factual presentation of REALITY to assist all who find, read, and STUDY the cosmological/reality facts to incorporate their inner life and relationships with the TA.

What's a TA without the UB? Never heard of TAs anywhere else.
What's Paradise and the ultimaton?
What's fusion and an ascender?
What really happened in the Garden and why are we so confused and confounded here?
What's heaven like?
Are we perfected at death because we are "saved" in a church here as so many are told.
Are science and religion contradictory?
Are we alone here in the universe?
How big is creation?

Not one of those questions and related facts will ever come to any mortal by TA or any other spirit.

The UB is neither ancient nor a religious text for veneration or idolatry. It is a book of facts. Facts to be known and to be studied. Or it would not be here...or it is a great hoax. No one may have it AS a book of fact AND unimportant OR dangerous. A most disingenuous preposteration of a question and "warning".

Believe it or don't....this does not matter. Reality is indifferent to our beliefs and knowledge...but the pilgrim is not indifferent...or should not be indifferent to such important facts given as a rare and epochal revelation of the facts of reality. The belief of these facts does not save, transform, or bring fusion to anyone - as the book itself says and teaches. Facts, while important, do not deliver truth and faith and soul growth - and, as this fact book clearly states, to survive this life takes only faith. But for those who aspire to circle progress (oh, there's another fact not otherwise known) on this world of birth, the facts regarding universe reality are a true gift and important gift to help inspire as well as inform the truth seeker and pilgrim in time.

The paranoia of idolatry is unfounded. I've never met a UB reader/student/believer who worshipped this book. It does not hold Deity or represent Deity....it describes Deity and Reality. Nothing wrong with worshipping Deity and knowing of reality.

So, again, YESYESYES, WE SHOULD BE STUDENTS OF TUB!!!! No question. No doubt. Or so the authors and the authorities who instructed the authors would undoubtedly say. Why else is it here? We are instructed to put these facts into the "context" of our lives and our perspective as we live according to those facts presented. Living according to the facts of universe reality improves progress and outcomes as our philosophy of living is shaped by the facts and our experiences in truth discovery or meanings and values in the LIVING experience of soul building, love response, and faith in God and the friendly universe created for all children of creation.

Let us study then together and learn these wonderful facts and share the truths we have discovered within mind and along the pilgrim's path to Paradise!
[. . .]

FanofVan, I can agree with much of what you have presented above with the exception of your use of the word "fact", in that you really do not define the use of the word as you have used it but if I assume that "fact" is, in this case, (1) "something that actually exists; reality; truth", and/or (2) "something known to exist or to have happened", and/or (3) "a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true", and/or (4) "something said to be true or supposed to have happened", but may be represented in the UB, to be all of these definitions?

In most cases where I read your post above, I get the impression that you are implying "fact" to be like number (4) as defined above. If so then I can agree more but, I prefer to apply number (3) when studying the UB, where then I must dig deeper into the wording or structure of how the UB has been presented. Both (1) and (2) can be inclusive of information presented in the UB, but that would require the assimilation to known "#3-fact" as we understand it presently.

Therefore, I see no problem in studying the UB with an open mind regarding "facts", that it may or may not, present.

Also, I have segregated some of the questions which you presented above, where some of the proposed answers that are included in the UB, but the way you present some of the questions, makes it difficult to even start to answer because they have been so segmented as presented by the UB.

An example; you ask: "What's Paradise and the ultimaton?"
This really is two questions, but the UB generally answers what the "ultimaton" is, which it states that it makes up the components of an electron. The UB also literally states what "Paradise" is but in its usage implies many various components which are dynamic rather than static, but presents it as if it should have specific definitions and purpose.
Therefore, if you assume that its information is "fact" then there should be no reason to even need to pose any questions at all, but only question that which is presented, as meanings, as it relates to known science and/or "facts".

As far as making the UB into an "Idol", well, this can be dependent on how some students tend to understand the content of the UB without keeping an open mind to other opinion of its interpretation.

It would be interesting to take you questions from above and attempt to digest them a little more.


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Welcome back to TruthBook Midi (a new name but a familiar voice).

I am of the opinion that the UB presents facts that may be defined by all 4: " (1) "something that actually exists; reality; truth", and/or (2) "something known to exist or to have happened", and/or (3) "a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true", and/or (4) "something said to be true or supposed to have happened".

Regarding #3 - the authors are privy to their own participation in, observation of, and the records of time as kept by those charged with such knowledge and preservation and distribution of all the historical records of time and space.

That is, if it is to be believed at all of course....another issue altogether.

As to the questions posed, it was not my intent to discuss or research them specifically but, rather, to simply provide a sample list of questions which are factually answered in the UB. Each question (and so many more) would make a worthy topic of inquiry and discussion to be sure.

I agree there is room to disagree on the "interpretation" issue Midi. Some seem to think the UB is a code book requiring a skillful decoding and others seem to think it more metaphorical or illustrative rather than factual. To each their own. My view is well known here (and other places): IMO the UB says what it says and does not say what it does not say and that for this reason the text itself is its own best spokesperson and representative. Which still leaves much to discover in its study and by the perspectives and experiences of others.

But idols are idols and idolatry is the worship of idols. I have never met anyone who worships the UB....not a single person ever. It is a false premise and a false claim and a false accusation....always has been....no matter how many times someone may scream it over and over. I am reminded of the beam. Some worry too much about what others are doing or not doing or believing or not believing. We each believe what we will and do what we choose to do. I am happy to simply study this gift.

I certainly have found that every reading of it, no matter how many times one has already read it, often leads to new discoveries of meaning and value based on one's applications of its teachings and to the degree that the philosophy for daily living is actually transformed by those facts presented. I think facts are facts and facts are true, but truth is discovered in living and in relationships and the applications of love in experience over time.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
I agree there is room to disagree on the "interpretation" issue Midi. Some seem to think the UB is a code book requiring a skillful decoding and others seem to think it more metaphorical or illustrative rather than factual. To each their own. My view is well known here (and other places): IMO the UB says what it says and does not say what it does not say and that for this reason the text itself is its own best spokesperson and representative. Which still leaves much to discover in its study and by the perspectives and experiences of others.

But idols are idols and idolatry is the worship of idols. I have never met anyone who worships the UB....not a single person ever. It is a false premise and a false claim and a false accusation....always has been....no matter how many times someone may scream it over and over. I am reminded of the beam. Some worry too much about what others are doing or not doing or believing or not believing. We each believe what we will and do what we choose to do. I am happy to simply study this gift.

I agree that interpretation is key to one's understanding of the content within the UB, and as far as coding within the UB, well that's within the ability of the reader to discern how or what the authors have presented based on how they grammatically structured its context. This, I believe is based within the readers preference and experiences with other text or material which might be compared, as far as content. By this I am saying that every reader may have a purpose based on what they are looking for out of their reading of the UB. This would change from every reading and reader and become opinion or belief as possibly fact(s) which they can associate with or too.

This would therefore bring one to the idol issue where a book cannot be considered as an idol but, what a book may represent to someone may be idolized or regarded with blind adoration, and devotion, because of what that book may represent to them, and how its content may have changed their life? Therefore, even though I agree with you regarding the idol issue, that doesn't mean that other individuals might believe that the enthusiasm by which some students present their beliefs or understanding of the UB, as can be interpreted one way, and not another way, as seeing those as making an idol out of a book. As you are aware, the Bible has become an idol to many who understand its meaning and purpose to be emphatically expressed by deity. For those individuals, it is best to disregard their emphasis as unchangeable, or so I think?


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Idolatry cannot be achieved in a sophisticated age. The Levite priest who conferred with the silver statue of MicaHa's face believed to have spoken with him. If we are familiar enough with rational processes, then we do not attach Life Itself to the symbols which are representing one or another aspect of Life. There are other risks, but who honestly believes that the Book (as a static object) IS a revelation, but actually we know that if a person has acquired revelation through reading its Pages, then the revelation occurred within his mind. What do you really mean idolatry in this context? I can only infer some warning that one must depend on human experience rather than textuel sources, but to me reading is a part of my experience and learning. I suppose that in some other phase of my experience it will not be so.



But if we are to represent the teachings of the Urantia Book in our society, then it behooves us to be as consistent and as truthful as the teachings themselves towards everyone. We may be called to act as dutifully as the authors themselves. In some sense, you may worry about idolatry because you depend on the teachings, but do not worry because the teachings are practical and they are liberating if you apply them properly. Then the issue is the reputation and the identity and the symbolism of the urantia book (even the grand universe) as expressed through our own actions.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Idolatry cannot be achieved in a sophisticated age. The Levite priest who conferred with the silver statue of MicaHa's face believed to have spoken with him. If we are familiar enough with rational processes, then we do not attach Life Itself to the symbols which are representing one or another aspect of Life. There are other risks, but who honestly believes that the Book (as a static object) IS a revelation, but actually we know that if a person has acquired revelation through reading its Pages, then the revelation occurred within his mind. What do you really mean idolatry in this context? I can only infer some warning that one must depend on human experience rather than textuel sources, but to me reading is a part of my experience and learning. I suppose that in some other phase of my experience it will not be so.



But if we are to represent the teachings of the Urantia Book in our society, then it behooves us to be as consistent and as truthful as the teachings themselves towards everyone. We may be called to act as dutifully as the authors themselves. In some sense, you may worry about idolatry because you depend on the teachings, but do not worry because the teachings are practical and they are liberating if you apply them properly. Then the issue is the reputation and the identity and the symbolism of the urantia book (even the grand universe) as expressed through our own actions.


Excellent points and post!!! I agree that facts printed are facts regardless of their reading, but for the student of facts, those facts must be read, studied, and applied for those facts to matter or change the perspective of the student. The UB is only interesting until challenged and confirmed by its experience in daily living. It is only theoretical until it is far more....it becomes factual, truthful, and inspiring only when it is lived.

It's study, when sufficient, leads to greater discovery and appreciation of that presented by the authors. There is the word printed and the effect of the word in-mind, where, as you say, the mind and the spirits within mind may do something far more in the personalization, experiential appreciation, perspective adjustments, confirmations and insights - collation and integration in practical application!!

This is why the more one studies the UB and implements its teachings in the daily walk, the more this text continues to offer those who so study and walk accordingly. It is also true that the UB actually provides actionable guidance beyond the facts and the text gives a whole new paradigm of perspective regarding all of reality.....expanding the mind to regard and appreciate the cosmos and its Creator.

And I agree that only the fruits of the spirit demonstrated give any evidence whatsoever of truly understanding and implementing the facts so presented.

Thank you SEla!!

:wink: 8)


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I stand by my original post, but I think I should be more careful, to say that there are many social phenomena that are similar to the olden idolatry, which must be warned against in this context.

It may be a surprise, but product names like "Tacoma", "Tonka", "Hyunda", and "Toyotoma" are variously representative of historical concepts of Deity. It is a long way coming, with some refinements, but we should observe how a Taurus would shift from a statuesque idol into a functional machine.

The Urantia Book describes the Grand Universe as a functional mechanism, that in one sense is benevolent and in another self-regulative. And in some sense, humans have decided to build "a global network" which is responsive to human directives.

There is a limit to the service that machinery may pose to mankind. And there are various activities that machines may be substituted, where once a human was involved. But it is in the context of competitiveness and war that the idea of the "machine man" is established, and where we exist as a community, machines cannot substitute for a person. Those who attempt to interpose machines for their morontial needs will fail at their justifications, and whatever comfort they may derive from their action leads to soul-death.

What happens when company executive members use these names for Deity, and exact that their employees be loyal and sponsor the products, the brands, and the images associated with a service? Then there is a social undercontext, of favoritism. There is a tribalism that emerges within strange, new contexts.

Then the elaborate illusion would be complete, when humans have built these machines that are in some sense comparable to idols, that are "self-operative". They contain passengers, and they have informational sensors combined with internal logic, proper to navigate within the auspices of other structures that humans have created. There becomes a serious dichotomy, and a division, that separates the civilized macromachine from nature because the same sigils are acted upon by both man and machine, but by entirely different methods.

And then there are groups of engineers who command machinery but hope that the machinery would command people. There is a great project, similar to the human genome project, to study human behaviours and to derive values of their associations to each symbol, the value of our experiences and relationships. All of these factors show that the risk of human dependence on machinery is much higher than the cost of idolatry, as it existed millennia ago.

We may have some sense of commonality through shared symbolism, and solidarity from our culture (and our culture includes the refinement of technology), but I will be on my guard that no such symbol may be imposed or stand as "the image of God".

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Students are not only to study. We study and we teach...here and all the way to Paradise. We are to be students of everything, I would think most especially the only book in the world related to the facts of reality:

30:3.9 (339.6) The entire ascendant plan of mortal progression is characterized by the practice of giving out to other beings new truth and experience just as soon as acquired. You work your way through the long school of Paradise attainment by serving as teachers to those pupils just behind you in the scale of progression.

8)


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140:3.15 "I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And whatsoever you believe that I would do to men, do you also to them.

140:3.16 "Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father's kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect.

140:3.17 "You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother's eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother's eye.


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Thank you Manny/toto/Louis - Inspirational and instructional words by the Master...discovered by study of the Papers gifted to us that we might learn of the facts of universe reality...and the truths discovered by living in faith within the reality presented for our study!!

Should We Be "Students" of TUB? Of course, obviously...and that is the very purpose of this place called TruthBook - we gather here to learn and to teach the Urantia Papers, as stated so well in the guidelines here. We are given curiosity for purpose we are taught, as students of reality, by this gift of knowledge given to reduce our confusions, errors of perspective, and our anxieties as to the nature of creation and the power of our creators and universe leaders that we might more confidently go forth as faith children into our destiny...as individuals and as a world.

Thanks for sharing such a teaching Manny/toto/Louis, directly from this gift we study together...here at this study group!

:wink: 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:22 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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