Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:10 am +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:50 am +0000
SEla_Kelly wrote:To study the Urantia Book is not to be students of the Urantia Book per se, but inevitably we will become students of the nature of God, cosmic citizens within the grand universe. In all humility.
Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:34 am +0000
Riktare wrote:A very high quality post SEla_Kelly. There were lots of points that require further thinking to better understand the subtle issues you raise.
fanofVan wrote:The Papers ARE replete...filled with satisfying facts!!
fanofVan wrote:We shouldn't study "books"?????!!!!!! An absurd proclamation. Is there not knowledge in books? Does one not use a map on a trek through undiscovered territory?
fanofVan wrote:Facts become knowledge which is one form of being "taught"....the UB is replete with teachings about who, when, how, why, etc., etc. You graduated med school - you didn't learn the facts of chemistry, biology, anatomy, etc. from text books? Do you know the planet's geography? Without a map? You crack me up!
fanofVan wrote:A direct contradiction to what you have already said. A map shows the relationship of current location and desired destiny and the routes and obstacles in between. The UB teaches how we are related one to another and to all others and to God - relationships - and the relationship of all ministering spirits to the each of us and the all of us (the Supreme) and the facts of origin, history, destiny, plan, process, purpose, etc. You say facts are irrelevant and then claim relationships are important; how does one get to the one without the other?
fanofVan wrote:Where did you learn (were taught) about the TAs Manny? And the Supreme? And Paradise? And the ultimatons? How about the mechanics of soul and soul survival and the Mansion Worlds and the ascension career? Did you know of all this without the UB? How so? From whence?
fanofVan wrote:You say: "Humans can only respect other persons." Who says so? You? Do you respect physics (do you wear a seat belt)? Or the ability of electricity to kill or fire to burn? Poppycock dude.
fanofVan wrote:Respect is a way of treating or thinking about something or someone. People respect others who are impressive for any reason, such as being in authority — like a teacher or cop — or being older — like a grandparent. You show respect by being polite and kind. For a lot of people, taking your hat off is a show of respect. When people are insulted or treated badly, they feel they haven't been treated with respect. You can respect things as well as people. Saying the Pledge of Allegiance shows respect to your country.
fanofVan wrote:Me: Symmetry and relationships cannot be known without the knowledge of the facts and persons which are so related.
fanofVan wrote:Seriously Manny, you are making no sense. We are given the inner life and light and pilot and now we are given this textbook of fact and relationship but you say it should not be studied to learn. Why then was it given I wonder? So many words and so long in coming but for no purpose according to you. Seriously??!!
Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:10 am +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:58 am +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:12 pm +0000
Rexford wrote:In Paper 19 there is a description of how the human mind best approaches the study of revelation. Mind needs to perform a full and unprejudiced study such that it can correlate and understand all three phases of reality.
Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:46 pm +0000
fanofVan wrote:Actually Manny, respect for things is not idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of and deification of material objects. It is a form of primitivism no serious UB student would be guilty of. One book you might study is a dictionary for you have misstated or misrepresented many common terms here so far including idolatry, replete, and respect to name but three. Such a "technique" of using words or defining them in ways that are not factual or knowledgeable only proves the value of books and knowledge for the study of reality, context, and perspective that is based in reality.
fanofVan wrote:And those who have less confusion and error and doubt in their pilgrim's walk with God are blessed to have such knowledge available to us - not to replace the journey but to illuminate the path and assist in the edges of conflict and the vicissitudes of life.
fanofVan wrote:The map is not the terrain, the light is not the path so lit, and facts have no value until incorporated into our philosophy of living which is to unify the facts of material reality and the truth of the inner life into a harmony of the experience of both realities - the spirit and the material. Indeed, the best way to transfer the seat of our identity from one nature to the other, is to unify both of our natures into a singular experience and expression in living our lives with a clear picture of reality itself - that which we can see, hear, smell, taste, and touch and that which is unknowable to us ....... without epochal revelation and study of the greater realities in time and space and beyond those.
Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:57 pm +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:14 pm +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:23 pm +0000
Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:14 pm +0000
Rexford wrote:As I previously said, the human mind guided by revelation is capable of recognizing truth. You need both. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. "Guided by revelation" means Adjuster guided. But even inner guidance must be expressed by the technique of material mind, and the human material mind is the only mind we have that can function on the material level of reality. The soul, where we experience Adjuster guidance, cannot function below the supermaterial level of reality. We're limited by the ability of our human mind to interpret and harmonize inner and the outer reality. Reading the Papers is both an internal experience and external exercise, but our conscious realization of such is in the material mind. And that's what we share with each other here on this forum.
Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:36 pm +0000
Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:49 am +0000
Jim George wrote:Rex and Brad, it appears you are trying your best to hold out that the Urantia Book is to be accepted as the definitive way to learn of God so humans can know him.
Jim George wrote:Manny, myself and others are saying that knowing God is the actual result of making a personal decision to know him which must precede the study of the Urantia Book or any religious book for that matter or else the meanings of the text(s) will be misinterpreted and we will be back to the religion of the mind instead of the personal religion of Jesus.
Jim George wrote:Rexford wrote: “As I previously said, the human mind guided by revelation is capable of recognizing truth. You (YOU MEAN WE?) need both. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. (YES YOU CAN! YOU CAN SHARE HOW YOU DO THIS PERSONALLY.)
Jim George wrote:"Guided by revelation" means Adjuster guided. (THIS IS TOO VAGUE) But even inner guidance must be expressed (AND EXPLAINED TO THE WORLD) by the technique of material mind (SHARING PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE THOUGHT ADJUSTER IN THIS PROCESS), and the human material mind is the only mind we have that can function on the material level of reality.
Jim George wrote:The soul, where we experience Adjuster guidance, cannot function below the supermaterial level of reality. (BUT IT CAN BE EXPERIENCED. EXPLANATION OF THIS EXPERIENCE REVEALS THE FRUITS OF THIS SPIRIT CONTACT. YOUR STATEMENT IS AN EXCUSE, MY FRIEND. YOU ARE SIMPLY STOPPING YOUR OWN FORWARD PROGRESS AND ARE USING THIS AN EXCUSE FOR NOT TRYING.)
Jim George wrote:We're (YOU MIGHT BE BETTER OFF SAYING “I AM” RATHER THAN WE’RE) limited by the ability of our (MY) human mind to interpret and harmonize inner and the outer reality. (TRUE, BUT OUR LIMITS ARE NOT SELF DISCOVERED LIMITATIONS, THEY ARE GOD REVEALED. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF IN GOD’S EYES, BUT WE ARE IN CONTROL OF WHAT WE WON’T ALLOW HIM TO REVEAL TO US ABOUT US.)
Jim George wrote:Reading the Papers is both an internal experience and external exercise, but our conscious realization of such is in the material mind (THIS STATEMENT IS INACCURATE, THE MATERIAL MIND IS CAPABLE OF REALIZING GOD'S ACTIVITY IN OUR SOULS. BY DISALLOWING THAT YOU DENY GOD’S INVOLVEMENT.) And that's what we share with each other here on this forum. (AND THAT IS WHY WE DON’T HAVE SPIRITUAL UNITY ON THIS FORUM)
Jim George wrote:We are something other than merely our thoughts
Jim George wrote: Our job on Urantia is to learn to first identify the levels of our mind we have control over then intentionally and deliberately give control of those to GOD!
Jim George wrote:Rex and Brad there is something here that is real that you both have repeatedly said either confuses you or you don’t understand. Face that squarely and stop arguing (debating) the truth. You are missing the point. Please talk with God about this before you pick up your books. Share your reality, not your understanding.
Jim George wrote:It is time to put this issue behind us. None of us are to be “Keepers of the Gate”. Those who call into question each statement and budding understanding of each and every issue that comes up between readers. We are not to be consensus builders but spirit builders, soul builders. I pray God will bless you both as you seek HIS way for you rather than your way to him.
Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:57 am +0000
Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:04 am +0000